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[PepsimanVsJoe]

As long as I keep getting games like ESP Galuda 2 I'm straight.
ESP Galuda 2 is pretty "core" right? Somebody help me out here.

 

[AniHawk]

...Natal has already hurt their core focus. Every dollar spent on it is a dollar taken away from what could have been core games. See the Xbox 2009 lineup for reference, the same year Natal was announced.

I think 2009 was a case of dev teams just all running out of games to release at the same time rather than Microsoft not having money to fund them.

 

[Dan Yo]

Really MS? Because 2007 was not only the best year for the 360, but probably the best year in gaming since 1998. Since then I've seen PS3 gain closer every year to what you had going in 2007, while after Peter Moore's departure, you appear to get closer and closer to trying to chase the Wii.

I hope Natal, Scene It, Lips, In the Movies, or whatever the next hair-brained scheme you're cooking up are worth it though.

 

[goldenpp72]

Really MS? Because 2007 was not only the best year for the 360, but probably the best year in gaming since 1998. Since then I've seen PS3 gain closer every year to what you had going in 2007, while after Peter Moore's departure, you appear to get closer and closer to trying to chase the Wii.

I hope Natal, Scene It, Lips, In the Movies, or whatever the next hair-brained scheme you're cooking up are worth it though.

Yeah, alan wake, crackdown 2, mass effect 2, halo reach, splinter cell, etc, are basically natal quick and dirties.

 

[Talamius]

As long as I keep getting games like ESP Galuda 2 I'm straight.
ESP Galuda 2 is pretty "core" right? Somebody help me out here.

65% core.. I think. I don't know anymore. :lol

 

[AniHawk]

Yeah, alan wake, crackdown 2, mass effect 2, halo reach, splinter cell, etc, are basically natal quick and dirties.

That's what I've been trying to tell you.

 

[godhandiscen]

Alright. This could work. It's 9.10pm. I'm in the mood for getting drunk.

*Whips out the smirnoff* I'mma take a shot every time someone says the word "core".

:lol

 

[jaypah]

:lol

what's wrong with Smirnoff?

 

[godhandiscen]

what's wrong with Smirnoff?

How can you get drunk with it? I have yet to see somebody getting drunk drinking just that.

 

[Hari Seldon]

How can you get drunk with it? I have yet to see somebody getting drunk drinking just that.

Where the eff do you live that people are so alcoholic that they cannot get drunk off of vodka?

 

[Dan Yo]

Yeah, alan wake, crackdown 2, mass effect 2, halo reach, splinter cell, etc, are basically natal quick and dirties.

They haven't been bad by a long shot. I still think it's the best console for the core gamer on the market. They just don't seem to have any interest in duplicating that year or topping it. Their focus seems to be ... drifting elsewhere.

 

[watership]

Remember how netflix ruined the xbox? Zune marketplace made it worse.

Natal is more than just games. It's going to be applications too.. and new developers teams that focus on it, rather than core teams stopping hard core apps to make natal ones.

There is always room for more.

 

[grumble]

Obviously it will shirt the focus away.

Microsoft has X resources

There are currently X-M resources available for core games, where M is the resource spent on other stuff, like admin costs, manufacture, etc.

Natal comes in, and requires resources. Resources get moved from X to Natal.

End result is X-M-N, which is less than X-M.

Unless MS increases their resource base for games development, manufacture, marketing, etc, core games will definitely lose out. It doesn't men there stil won't be plenty of them, but clearly resources are being allocated elsewhere.

 

[jaypah]

How can you get drunk with it? I have yet to see somebody getting drunk drinking just that.

what? it's 80 proof vodka! drink enough and you'll be drunk. maybe you guys are confusing it with those wine cooler things the Smirnoff company makes.

End result is X-M-N

x-men game confirmed 360 exclusive.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

MS' first party focus is almost irrelevant to the perception or sustainability of the 360 as a "core platform".

3rd parties aren't going to stop making GTAs, CoDs, and Assassin's Creeds, and 360 owners aren't going to suddenly stop buying them, just because Rare made a Wii Fit clone.

Really MS? Because 2007 was not only the best year for the 360, but probably the best year in gaming since 1998. Since then I've seen PS3 gain closer every year to what you had going in 2007, while after Peter Moore's departure, you appear to get closer and closer to trying to chase the Wii.

I hope Natal, Scene It, Lips, In the Movies, or whatever the next hair-brained scheme you're cooking up are worth it though.

What came out for the 360 in 2007? First party was:

Crackdown
Halo 3
Forza 2
Shadowrun
Mass Effect

Looking at that list, would you really say that MS has dropped the ball in their focus, knowing what's come out in the last 6 months and what's coming in the next 6?

Spoiler

Hint: the 4 good games on that list got sequels

Obviously it will shirt the focus away.

Microsoft has X resources

There are currently X-M resources available for core games, where M is the resource spent on other stuff, like admin costs, manufacture, etc.

Natal comes in, and requires resources. Resources get moved from X to Natal.

End result is X-M-N, which is less than X-M.

Unless MS increases their resource base for games development, manufacture, marketing, etc, core games will definitely lose out. It doesn't men there stil won't be plenty of them, but clearly resources are being allocated elsewhere.

Microsoft has opened several new studios exclusively for Natal development.

 

[Vizion28]

Do people actually believe this? Nintendo pushed LEGEND OF ZELDA to launch for the Wii! Within the first year we got an FE game, MP3 and SMG. Why do people keep posting crap like casuals came first? Nintendo always targeted both markets since the beginning

Thank you!

Nintendo going all casual is over exaggerated. Nintendo was targeting everybody including the male 12 - 30 male demographic.

The problem I see with Natal is that its games are going to be on the far end of the casual spectrum (since Natal lends itself for those type of games) whereas Nintendo's games tend to appeal to everybody (Mario Kart, NSMB Wii, Galaxy, Smash etc.). I see that limiting its sales potential. Not to mention Microsoft has no or minimal experience making those type of games.

And there is also the perception of the Xbox as a teenage, young adult male console. Microsoft will have to market heavily to try to change people's perception. Even the name Xbox doesn't sound too inviting.

This is Microsoft's last trick up its sleeve to dominate the media space in people's living rooms. They are going to put a lot on it. But has a peripheral ever pushed a console significally before?

Despite my negative tone I do believe Natal will be successful but no where close as successful as Wii.

 

[REMEMBER CITADEL]

They just don't seem to have any interest in duplicating that year or topping it. Their focus seems to be ... drifting elsewhere.

2007 was indeed fantastic for Xbox 360, but were it not for the fact that EDF 2017 came out that year, I'd say that 2010's line-up was set to match it. Mind you, we're only in March so who knows what's yet to be announced.

 

[JordanLMiller]

...Natal has already hurt their core focus. Every dollar spent on it is a dollar taken away from what could have been core games. See the Xbox 2009 lineup for reference, the same year Natal was announced.

Whether that's a bad thing or not, who knows, but Euro Boss is off the mark, knows it, and is just covering his bases.

This was literally my first reaction after reading the title...

 

[godhandiscen]

what? it's 80 proof vodka! drink enough and you'll be drunk. maybe you guys are confusing it with those wine cooler things the Smirnoff company makes.




x-men game confirmed 360 exclusive.

Yep my bad. I tend to associated Smirnoff with Smirnoff Ice. I don't drink much Vodka, and the only bottle I have at home is 360.

Obviously it will shirt the focus away.

Microsoft has X resources

There are currently X-M resources available for core games, where M is the resource spent on other stuff, like admin costs, manufacture, etc.

Natal comes in, and requires resources. Resources get moved from X to Natal.

End result is X-M-N, which is less than X-M.

Unless MS increases their resource base for games development, manufacture, marketing, etc, core games will definitely lose out. It doesn't men there stil won't be plenty of them, but clearly resources are being allocated elsewhere.

It would actually open the market for Microsoft who could introduce core games to the casual audience. There is a reason why some people make business decisions and others forum posts.

 

[REMEMBER CITADEL]

Obviously it will shirt the focus away.

Microsoft has X resources

There are currently X-M resources available for core games, where M is the resource spent on other stuff, like admin costs, manufacture, etc.

Natal comes in, and requires resources. Resources get moved from X to Natal.

End result is X-M-N, which is less than X-M.

Unless MS increases their resource base for games development, manufacture, marketing, etc, core games will definitely lose out. It doesn't men there stil won't be plenty of them, but clearly resources are being allocated elsewhere.

The bolded part is precisely what Natal is supposed to contribute to, at least in theory. If Natal is success, that will mean more revenue for Microsoft and then it's fair to assume their development resources will increase as well. In Natal fails, the development resources will remain roughly the same, but they will quickly shift back to core games (including Xbox 720 launch titles).

 

[Linkified]

The bolded part is precisely what Natal is supposed to contribute to, at least in theory. If Natal is success, that will mean more revenue for Microsoft and then it's fair to assume their development resources will increase as well. In Natal fails, the development resources will remain roughly the same, but they will quickly shift back to core games (including Xbox 720 launch titles).

And it probably won't with the amount of marketing and push behind it, however, if it does they can relaunch it with the next console.

 

[InterMoniker]

Alright. This could work. It's 9.10pm. I'm in the mood for getting drunk.

*Whips out the smirnoff* I'mma take a shot every time someone says the word "core".

:lol

How can you get drunk with it? I have yet to see somebody getting drunk drinking just that.

Wow...

Yep my bad. I tend to associated Smirnoff with Smirnoff Ice. I don't drink much Vodka, and the only bottle I have at home is 360.

It would actually open the market for Microsoft who could introduce core games to the casual audience. There is a reason why some people make business decisions and others forum posts.

What?

 

[REMEMBER CITADEL]

And it probably won't with the amount of marketing and push behind it, however, if it does they can relaunch it with the next console.

Are you trying to suggest that they won't be able to recoup the launch expenses or that they're not pushing it hard enough?

 

[Son of Godzilla]

It's pretty silly to attribute Natal to MS' loss of focus. They lost Bizarre Creations. Lost Mass Effect publishing, might have lost Gears of War. Ensemble, Silicon Knights, FASA, Itagaki, and the Gooch are gone for one reason or another. It's hardly Natal's fault that one draws a blank for MGS games in 2011, pretty much everything under their umbrella has something "core" for 2009/10 outside of Rare and their new studios.

 

[InterMoniker]

It's pretty silly to attribute Natal to MS' loss of focus. They lost Bizarre Creations. Lost Mass Effect publishing, might have lost Gears of War. Ensemble, Silicon Knights, FASA, Itagaki, and the Gooch are gone for one reason or another. It's hardly Natal's fault that one draws a blank for MGS games in 2011, pretty much everything under their umbrella has something "core" for 2009/10 outside of Rare and their new studios.

Dude it's fucking 2010.

 

[godhandiscen]

Wow...
What?

It's the only one I have. I am not big on Vodka.

 

[Son of Godzilla]

Dude it's fucking 2010.

It's not like they actually released anything in 2009 anyways. Ensemble is dead and who gives a fuck about Lips. I just meant Turn 10. And they will have another fucking racing game in 2011, probably. Even though that genre is dead and nobody will care.

So there you go. MS focus hasn't been hurt at all!

 

[godhandiscen]

It's not like they actually released anything in 2009 anyways. Ensemble is dead and who gives a fuck about Lips. I just meant Turn 10. And they will have another fucking racing game in 2011, probably. Even though that genre is dead and nobody will care.

343's Halo project might arrive in 2011. Also Gears Of War 3 and Alan Wake DLC.

 

[Linkified]

Are you trying to suggest that they won't be able to recoup the launch expenses or that they're not pushing it hard enough?

When I say that I'm coming from the point of view as MS as a business and their bottom line and I was trying saying to say that they will take a hit financially by them selling it way under the cost of the product to make, especially if the MCV rumoured pricepoint is to be believed. So they won't be able to sell enough to offset the cost to produce it.

From a publisher perspective it may sell slightly better than MS's predictions.

 

[REMEMBER CITADEL]

It's pretty silly to attribute Natal to MS' loss of focus. They lost Bizarre Creations. Lost Mass Effect publishing, might have lost Gears of War. Ensemble, Silicon Knights, FASA, Itagaki, and the Gooch are gone for one reason or another. It's hardly Natal's fault that one draws a blank for MGS games in 2011, pretty much everything under their umbrella has something "core" for 2009/10 outside of Rare and their new studios.

Huh? Presuming they lost Gears of War is really stretching it; there's no reason why Itagaki's new studio couldn't be working with Microsoft in the future; they let Ensemble go, but now there are several splinter studios they could be teaming up with; similarly with FASA and Smith & Tinker (in any case, I don't expect to see the IPs they licensed back from Microsoft appearing on any other console); Silicon Knights is lost only if Microsoft doesn't want them anymore, and Gooch isn't necessarily gone either.

Then there are all other independent studios they could be teaming up with (Monolith, Gearbox, Bungie, Frontier, Treasure, Starbreeze...) and their own internal teams, some of which probably already have something in the works for 2011.

Really, you're presuming an awful lot here.

When I say that I'm coming from the point of view as MS as a business and their bottom line and I was trying saying to say that they will take a hit financially by them selling it way under the cost of the product to make, especially if the MCV rumoured pricepoint is to be believed. So they won't be able to sell enough to offset the cost to produce it.

We don't know whether they will be selling it way under the cost of production, though. A combination of a cam, an IR emitter, an IR sensor and a multi-array microphone can't be that expensive to produce.

 

[JumpJeff84]

One question about Natal:

On an episode of the CAGcast recently, Cheapy recounted a conversation he had with an unnamed developer. The developer supposedly told him that Natal requires a lot of the horsepower of the 360 to operate, effectively making any game on Natal 'gimped' in terms of graphics/memory.

Has this been confirmed elsewhere? I never hear people talking about it, but if it's true...

 

[Psychotext]

Has this been confirmed elsewhere? I never hear people talking about it, but if it's true...

Confirmed? No. Discussed to death? Yes.

It's only really important if they're going to bolt it into existing games... which no-one wants anyway. :lol

 

[Razor210]

I'm assuming everyone already knows the lineup for Natal then?

 

[REMEMBER CITADEL]

One question about Natal:

On an episode of the CAGcast recently, Cheapy recounted a conversation he had with an unnamed developer. The developer supposedly told him that Natal requires a lot of the horsepower of the 360 to operate, effectively making any game on Natal 'gimped' in terms of graphics/memory.

Has this been confirmed elsewhere? I never hear people talking about it, but if it's true...

Define "a lot". Microsoft has confirmed that Natal requires 10-15% of Xbox 360's computing power to operate. I've seen some random people suggest the load might be going up to 30%, but those claims remain unsubstantiated for now.

 

[Son of Godzilla]

Really, you're presuming an awful lot here.

I wasn't presuming anything. I was saying that there is a reason nobody knows what to expect from MGS in 2011. You are saying that it's possible they might have something. These aren't contradictions.

Has this been confirmed elsewhere? I never hear people talking about it, but if it's true...

Saying that Natal games will be gimped in graphics is silly because that is not strictly tied to CPU processing, but it's been rumored to access about a third of a core, ~10% of total resources.

I'm assuming everyone already knows the lineup for Natal then?

Certainly not "core" games, if that's what you are suggesting. If this statement by MS isn't "You won't have to buy some silly accessory to play the games you bought a 360 for" then it is meaningless.

 

[Linkified]

We don't know whether they will be selling it way under the cost of production, though. A combination of a cam, an IR emitter, an IR sensor and a multi-array microphone can't be that expensive to produce.

Well they have to pay for the cost of developing the software to make it work instead of using the processor. It depends as well what quality we are getting with Natal if its going to be like that of the Vsion camera or of a higher quality.

Plus with Pacther saying they will sell it under production costs and MCV attaching around £50 price point. Would make it seem that if it is bundled with other software. Then they will most likely be losing money on each unit.

 

[water_wendi]

Where the eff do you live that people are so alcoholic that they cannot get drunk off of vodka?

im thinking they were thinking smirnoff ice.

 

[JumpJeff84]

Define "a lot". Microsoft has confirmed that Natal requires 10-15% of Xbox 360's computing power to operate. I've seen some random people suggest the load might be going up to 30%, but those claims remain unsubstantiated for now.

Interesting...

 

[REMEMBER CITADEL]

I wasn't presuming anything. I was saying that there is a reason nobody knows what to expect from MGS in 2011. You are saying that it's possible they might have something. These aren't contradictions.

Well, yeah, there is a reason - we're only at the start of 2010.

Well they have to pay for the cost of developing the software to make it work instead of using the processor. It depends as well what quality we are getting with Natal if its going to be like that of the Vsion camera or of a higher quality.

Plus with Pacther saying they will sell it under production costs and MCV attaching around £50 price point. Would make it seem that if it is bundled with other software. Then they will most likely be losing money on each unit.

Sure, but Natal software development is covered by R&D costs, every platform ever launched has had similar expenses.

Ah, Pachter. Well, that settles it then

Seriously, though, even if they intend to sell it at a loss in the beginning (which is something we still don't know), we can't automatically presume they'll be taking a significant hit per unit, which is what you're saying. There's nothing to suggest one war or the other for the time being.

 

[Linkified]

Sure, but Natal software development is covered by R&D costs, every platform ever launched has had similar expenses.

Ah, Pachter. Well, that settles it then

Seriously, though, even if they intend to sell it at a loss in the beginning (which is something we still don't know), we can't automatically presume they'll be taking a significant hit per unit, which is what you're saying. There's nothing to suggest one war or the other for the time being.

Yeah platform holders have had these costs but it was pretty late into development that they removed the processor from the spec and then moved to a whole software model though.

 

[REMEMBER CITADEL]

Yeah platform holders have had these costs but it was pretty late into development that they removed the processor from the spec and then moved to a whole software model though.

So? I don't see how that changes anything. Besides, Natal has always been running in software (during the demonstrations, PCs were used for handling Natal processing, Xbox 360s were just running the games). I'm not sure if they even produced prototypes of now abandoned Natal chips.

 

[ShogunX]

You're attempting to use sales numbers of the two most casualized shooters to make a point about the core market. Just thought I would let you know

Maybe something has changed since I last played but I wouldn't say Halo Is a game where any casual player can stroll into and start getting easy kills and finishing top of the board. Modern Warfare 2 is very much like that but I just don't see how Halo can be put into the same group.

 

[verbum]

Perfect Dark on Live and Halo Reach, keeping me happy this year in the "core" arena.
I'm looking forward to auto sign on to Live using facial recognition, speaking and waving my hand to watch a movie, and driving in Forza without having to use hardware. It will be enough for me. No lame wands needed.

 

[StealthGoblin]

I'm looking forward to auto sign on to Live using facial recognition, speaking and waving my hand to watch a movie, and driving in Forza without having to use hardware. It will be enough for me. No lame wands needed.

Obviously not a hardcore racing fan then. Thats going to be ridiculously inaccurate and tiring. . .

 

[Vorador]

Dumping Rare into doing stuff for Natal is already hurting some of the so called "core gamers". These declarations are just PR spin, you can't get anything useful outside of "we haven't forget about core gamers, Natal is just a complement". Smoke and mirrors.

 

[MattyGrovesOrMe]

I want a natal game where I control an onscreen bird, just flying around pretty looking spaces, and I have to flap my arms to maintain lift every so often. Perhaps true to life geography and time duration could be included, so I can fly south for the winter should my regular nest get chilly.

If that isn't core enough, maybe the bird can have missiles.

 

[Son of Godzilla]

Obviously not a hardcore racing fan then. Thats going to be ridiculously inaccurate and tiring. . .

But you can use a real life steering wheel instead of silly plastic toys!

 

[verbum]

But you can use a real life steering wheel instead of silly plastic toys!

Especially if you use a real life car with a 360 installed, an LCD screen, and the natal sensors on the dash. Commuting will never be the same.

 

[Son of Godzilla]

Especially if you use a real life car with a 360 installed, an LCD screen, and the natal sensors on the dash. Commuting will never be the same.

Cabela's Natal is going to be so awesome.

 

[Cday]

Orly? Where's the first part games then? They released what last year? Forza 3 and....

Oh, my bad I forgot about Facebook and Twitter. Carry on.