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Microsoft / Activision Deal Approval Watch |OT| (MS/ABK close)

Do you believe the deal will be approved?


  • Total voters
    886
  • Poll closed .
Status
Not open for further replies.

nial

Gold Member
You keep crying you are not allowed to have your opinion about Sony but I could go back years where all you do is criticize, downplay and repeat the same opinion over and over again (the same one you repeated again here yesterday).

There is many more but they were in locked threads so I couldn't quote them. You've been repeating the same "opinion" for years and you claim you're being censored? How many times you need to repeat yourself?
















Yes, he's been complaining about the "Sony template" all over his posting history and says it's not enough 🙄

More:
absolutely pwned, some of these statements are funny as hell
to be honest, Xbox is better at racing games, FPS, wrpg, and hopefully with aoe we will see more rts on consoles. Sony have a one category that they “own” - 3rd person interactive movies

How many games you are dissing you both have actually played? Do you even own Xbox? Do you own any other console than playstation?
?
 
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Heisenberg007

Gold Journalism
Their business model requires more studios gamepass requires content they can’t rely on third party deal if they really want to grow game pass. You need as much of your own content coming in the service as possible to drive sub. This isn’t Sony’s business model at this time so you’re comparison is flawed.
That's not what Microsoft says. Microsoft doesn't say that they need more content for Gamepass. They said that they are acquiring ABK because they want to compete with Sony in the gaming console market.

It's all in the documents they submitted to regulators who are investigating this deal.
 

pasterpl

Member
You keep crying you are not allowed to have your opinion about Sony but I could go back years where all you do is criticize, downplay and repeat the same opinion over and over again (the same one you repeated again here yesterday).

There is many more but they were in locked threads so I couldn't quote them. You've been repeating the same "opinion" for years and you claim you're being censored? How many times you need to repeat yourself?
















Yes, he's been complaining about the "Sony template" all over his posting history and says it's not enough 🙄

More:
Show me one lie in these comments? Even stats that I have shared showed that among ps owners exclusives are not reaching that many.

absolutely pwned, some of these statements are funny as hell
Any lies in these statements?

It so funny that people cannot understand that some informations are facts eg. Sony exclusives sales (attachment rate), variety of genres published by MS vs Sony, and some are my personal opinions, after playing games. I have played Spider-Man, infamous, killzone, drive club, Detroit, the order, horizon zero dawn, god of war 2018, all uncharted titles, death stranding and more of Sony exclusives. How many games you are dissing you both have actually played? Do you even own Xbox? Do you own any other console than playstation?
 
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reksveks

Member
For those not waiting on Jez, Hoe Law, Idas, or resetera members to define how the EU defines anti trust.


Article 101 prohibits anti-competitive agreements between two or more independent market operators.

Article 102 prohibits abusive behaviour by companies holding a dominant position on any given market.

- How do they define relevant markets?
- Did the markets change since the Bethesda deal?

That's second question is the thing that I am confused by.
 

reksveks

Member
This is key!

People keep fixating on Sony/PS, but the real kick in the gut for Microsoft would be cloud gaming that is flying under the radar right now. In terms of IPs, they are huge in Cloud gaming (although the overall market is just small at the moment).

Imagine this case: Microsoft is the leader in cloud gaming right now. They have bought and locked multiplatform IPs behind their cloud gaming subscription, which is preventing new entrants. Google entered the market with Stadia and had to shut down because of Microsoft's acquisition of Zenimax (it's on record by Google). Now MS is buying even more IPs, including COD, to lock behind its cloud gaming subscription.

The issue is that based off 'my reading' of the EC guidance, cloud gaming isn't easily defined as a separate market cause the suppliers are the same. I do wonder if the publishers are going to change their responses since the bethesda deal or the EC are going to read it slightly differently since the Zenimax deal.
 
There’s no there there in the article. The article doesn’t read like the headlines and the takes being pushed here. The article is saying the EC won’t let the deal go through without concessions. Something everyone knew already. How many years they ask for is something I’d like to see for CoD is it less or more than Microsoft already offered.

I wouldn't say "everyone" knew that by now, or certainly months ago. There are still a lot of people thinking there'll be no concessions whatsoever.

If this were a much smaller publisher, then maybe that'd of been the case. But this is ABK.

They already have more studios than they need, even without ABK. According to MS docs submitted to regulators, the driving force for MS to acquire ABK is that they want to compete with Sony, but they already have 4 more studios than Sony.

Lol, it's funny that their reasons for wanting the acquisition seem to change every week. So it's Sony they want to compete against, but they've also said it's to get a foothold in mobile, to push Game Pass, etc. etc. There isn't really any consistency with them on the messaging here, just whatever works for the moment.

I'd argue it's not even the amount of studios that matter, more so how well you use them. And that's a particular issue with the Xbox division because the upper management has been a sore spot for many years and some of the same people from back then are involved today. How much have they actually improved?

Their business model requires more studios gamepass requires content they can’t rely on third party deal if they really want to grow game pass. You need as much of your own content coming in the service as possible to drive sub. This isn’t Sony’s business model at this time so you’re comparison is flawed.

If Microsoft could show some transparent numbers on how Game Pass Day 1 for big AAA games actually increases sales for those games while still being in a sub service, increases revenue of the game in general, then they'd get more 3P publishers offering to put their games into the service Day 1.

But it's up to Microsoft to prove that it works, otherwise they're stuck with a model where they have to pay millions for individual releases to go onto the service. If the only answer to that is to buy up the publishers themselves, then I don't think that's a long-term solution. The regulators clearly don't want that, let alone market competitors. So sooner or later MS are going to have to be content with the studios they have and make them work.

And, if they get ABK, they'll have a lot of teams between them, Zenimax, and the XGS studios. They should be able to make that work. If not? Oh well 🤷‍♂️.
 

feynoob

Gold Member
- How do they define relevant markets?
- Did the markets change since the Bethesda deal?

That's second question is the thing that I am confused by.
This case is entirely different than previous cases.
Either we will get new relevant market definition, or nobody has any clue what the relevant market is, and making their own relevant market just for this case.

Cloud and subscription are new markets. Will EU and CMA make them their own markets too?
 

GHG

Gold Member
I can't wait for Phil to become president of EU.
What a fantastic leader would he be.
EU would have a great management.

Captain America Lol GIF by mtv
 

feynoob

Gold Member
If Microsoft could show some transparent numbers on how Game Pass Day 1 for big AAA games actually increases sales for those games while still being in a sub service, increases revenue of the game in general, then they'd get more 3P publishers offering to put their games into the service Day 1.
They usually show these to people who they deal with. No developer signs for gamepass day1, without seeing those numbers first.

It's just that we are consumers, and MS doesn't like sharing these details with us.
 

reksveks

Member
This case is entirely different than previous cases.
Either we will get new relevant market definition, or nobody has any clue what the relevant market is, and making their own relevant market just for this case.

Cloud and subscription are new markets. Will EU and CMA make them their own markets too?
CMA didn't look at Zenimax so they got an out in a way, but EU did and they did look at whether the cloud and subscriptions was a separate market though. They could just change their mind, think i may just have to accept that as an 'answer'.
 
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feynoob

Gold Member
CMA didn't look at Zenimax so they got an out in a way, but EU did and they did look at whether the cloud and subscriptions was a separate market though. They could just change their mind, think i may just have to accept that as an 'answer'.
Zenimax was small, and didn't have that much impact.
Activision is big as their games have huge userbase. That may change the equation on how they decide the relevant market.

That could be the reason. Wish they provide us more info.
 

reksveks

Member
Zenimax was small, and didn't have that much impact.
Activision is big as their games have huge userbase. That may change the equation on how they decide the relevant market.

That could be the reason. Wish they provide us more info.
In theory, markets aren't defined by the size of the acquisitions but who knows.

They fortunately should give us a decent amount of information but we just may have to be patience.
 

Heisenberg007

Gold Journalism
Lol, it's funny that their reasons for wanting the acquisition seem to change every week. So it's Sony they want to compete against, but they've also said it's to get a foothold in mobile, to push Game Pass, etc. etc. There isn't really any consistency with them on the messaging here, just whatever works for the moment.

I'd argue it's not even the amount of studios that matter, more so how well you use them. And that's a particular issue with the Xbox division because the upper management has been a sore spot for many years and some of the same people from back then are involved today. How much have they actually improved?
True. This is why I've been saying that buying ABK won't solve Xbox's problems. ABK looks amazing because they are not first-party yet. Once they become first-party, they will be under Xbox's management, and we all know how that usually goes.

If Xbox is acquiring ABK because the management of their 23 first-party studios isn't good enough to help them compete with Sony, having 30 first-party studios won't change the equation by much.

If they had only 15 studios but they managed them well and produced top-notch 10/10 bangers, even just 15 studios would have been enough.
 

Heisenberg007

Gold Journalism
The issue is that based off 'my reading' of the EC guidance, cloud gaming isn't easily defined as a separate market cause the suppliers are the same. I do wonder if the publishers are going to change their responses since the bethesda deal or the EC are going to read it slightly differently since the Zenimax deal.
You may be right, as I don't have much of an understanding of their inner working.

I'm basing this on how the CMA structured its arguments and responses. They categorized their concerns into multiple groups: one of them was Sony's console market, while another one was Cloud gaming and the risk to new entrants.

So they could be treating those areas as separate for evaluating this acquisition.
 
This case is entirely different than previous cases.
Either we will get new relevant market definition, or nobody has any clue what the relevant market is, and making their own relevant market just for this case.

Cloud and subscription are new markets. Will EU and CMA make them their own markets too?

Personally, I think the markets should be defined based on what content is being leveraged, and if content being leveraged impedes access to that same content for other product categories.

To me I think all these markets are (currently) the same, but console (direct sales) and subscription being more similar between the two than cloud gaming. Reason why is because we've already seen publishers using exclusivity in subscription and cloud to block things like preorders on competing platforms. Sony have clauses excluding Game Pass inclusion of 3P games they have comarketing/co-development/co-funding deals with. Microsoft apparently have blocked Persona preorders on PlayStation and Switch in order to help drive people to Game Pass since they have a marketing deal for the upcoming Persona re-releases. Google were making exclusives for Stadia that would not have been available on other platforms, plus they had cloud exclusivity for some 3P releases for a while IIRC.

All of these companies are dependent on the same pool of 3P developers and publishers to provide the bulk of their platform's content and revenue, so at least right now it feels like console direct sales are competing with subscription services (the Game Pass type, not the PS+ Essentials type) and some of those are competing with cloud gaming services like GeForce Now (both MS and Sony have removed games from Geforce Now compatibility). Right now MS are the only company that seems like they want to provide a big focus in all three markets, but I think they're realizing how difficult that is to manage, yet maybe feel they HAVE to do that because they can't simply go all-in on Xbox anymore as a console, gaming subscription services market is much smaller than console direct sales market, and cloud gaming is smaller than both.

So I guess MS feel in order to be successful in the industry now they need to put some big focus in all three areas, but that's also probably what is driving their reason (in their minds) to acquire big publishers. How many people can you REALLY convince to play COD through the cloud? Very little. How about on mobile? Few. But you could get a lot of people to take up those options with Candy Crush. That said, I think it also works against Microsoft, this approach, because it highlights how their unique position as a massive company with tons of mainly non-gaming revenue & profit, are able to leverage that money for sustaining these big simultaneous plays and do things like make big 3P publisher acquisitions. In fact that's something all the big tech companies can do, theoretically.

Which for regulators, is a part of the problem. It's big tech companies using their resources from other parts of the company (and possibly through historical deals that would've been argued as monopolistic today) to subsidize gaming growth in ways smaller companies can't keep up with, over a long period of time. And the kicker is, these big tech companies don't actually need to provide a product the actual customer market buys in majority, in order to have the money to do it! That's the bigger issue I think. It's why when people say Sony have a monopoly in console gaming, I laugh. Okay, and? They got majority market share by selling a product on the market the majority of customers chose over their competitors. That's how you're SUPPOSED to gain market share. Also Sony weren't that much different from NEC or Panasonic; if the PS1 failed, they would have just bailed out of the industry. Heck, they almost went bankrupt when the PS3 was losing so much money and considered folding the division at some point that gen.

Sure there was talk about Microsoft spinning Xbox off during XBO gen, but not because they were ever in a position where they NEEDED to do that to survive. They were just tired of playing with their "fun toy" for a while. Then Phil came in and told them some new ways to have fun with their toy and here we are. But to the main point, I also think it's why regulators don't consider Nintendo a direct competitor to say Sony or Microsoft, because most of Nintendo's revenue and profits come from their own software and hardware sales, not 3P sales, or 3P DLC & MTX sales, or their subscription service. They don't even get a lot of the same 3P games Sony & Microsoft get due to hardware differences and if they do, they're either cloud-only or look (and run) badly compared to even Series S, let alone PS5 & Series X, so most gamers in the market for those games will still pick up a PS or Xbox version just for better performance if they also get the Nintendo one for portability. I'd even say based on that Valve is more a competitor to Nintendo ATM than Sony & Microsoft, because of the Steam Deck.

But anyway back to your question. I don't know if EU & CMA would define subs and cloud as their own markets because I don't think they have enough of an established independent revenue stream to be seen as self-sustaining and independent, which is probably a requirement for being seen as a unique market. Publishers have leveraged sub services & cloud in the past to lock out other platforms from doing preorders of direct sales for certain releases, and vice-versa for publishers with console hardware having exclusions against competing sub services & cloud services. Things like Game Pass, xCloud, NSO+ and PS+ Extra/Premium are built off of console frameworks so at the very least they would be seen as extensions of their respective consoles I feel, meaning they're also dependent to some degree to those console platforms. And for most platform holders and publishers, the direct sales, sub services & cloud markets all compete for the same pool of gaming content. We may even have some examples of where a game being in one drives down its potential in another model (i.e a game being Day 1 in a sub service suppressing the amount of revenue from direct sales because segments of the customer base go to the subscription instead of outright buying the game).

I'm curious how regulators would view these markets though, in terms of if they feel they're unique independent markets or not.
 
True. This is why I've been saying that buying ABK won't solve Xbox's problems. ABK looks amazing because they are not first-party yet. Once they become first-party, they will be under Xbox's management, and we all know how that usually goes.

If Xbox is acquiring ABK because the management of their 23 first-party studios isn't good enough to help them compete with Sony, having 30 first-party studios won't change the equation by much.

If they had only 15 studios but they managed them well and produced top-notch 10/10 bangers, even just 15 studios would have been enough.
We just had a report that said it’s going to take 5 years to make triple A games now. Also delays are not something only just Microsoft does. Sony Nintendo everyone goes through this including other publishers that delay all the time. Microsoft’s problem isn’t the management of their studios it’s the fact that they closed a lot of their first party studios during the end of the 360 era and became heavily 3rd party dependent while supplementing gears forza halo. This was a bad idea and them just starting to buy studios in 2018 didn’t help either some of those studios where finishing up other games for other publishers and had contractual obligations. So they probably didn’t start making 1st party content till 2020. Same year they acquired bathesda which also started making newer games in those years so it’s more so a timing issue vs management. I think starting this year going forward they’ll have content cause some of those studios would have had 4-5 year dev time on their projects.
 

ToTTenTranz

Banned
Personally I still think the deal is going to pass, but with some very notable concessions.

I think many here would admit the deal can pass with concessions. The idea that this deal was going to pass without concessions was nothing but a wet dream in the current climate of consumer protectionism.

The biggest question here is whether or not Microsoft is willing to commit to those concessions or not.

If the EU, FTC and CMA make harsh demands like requiring for the most popular franchises to have a 12 year period of supply into the competition without any substantial preferential treatment towards Microsoft's platform (such as putting those games on their subscription service(s) on day 1), only then will we see Microsoft's commitment to the acquisition.


IMO if they can't lock CoD out of Playstation for the 10th generation consoles (~5 years?) and during that time make it look like the value proposition on Sony's side is much worse with year-long platform delays, day 1 gamepass, exclusive content, etc., then Microsoft is out of the deal.
This acquisition is about trying to kill Sony on the next generation. The rest is peanuts.



They said that they are acquiring ABK because they want to compete with Sony in the gaming console market.
They also said in the beginning they're acquiring Activision-Blizzard because they need King to compete in the mobile market for their metaverse incursion, and CoD was actually not a priority to them at all.
In the meantime they've changed goalposts a bunch of times, but it's not like people are keeping score or anything.
 
True. This is why I've been saying that buying ABK won't solve Xbox's problems. ABK looks amazing because they are not first-party yet. Once they become first-party, they will be under Xbox's management, and we all know how that usually goes.

If Xbox is acquiring ABK because the management of their 23 first-party studios isn't good enough to help them compete with Sony, having 30 first-party studios won't change the equation by much.

If they had only 15 studios but they managed them well and produced top-notch 10/10 bangers, even just 15 studios would have been enough.

Yep, it all comes back to the upper management. I'm not saying Phil Spencer and co. haven't done some good things for the brand since 2017. But let's be real: they've made a lot of mistakes since then and continue to.

Personally I think it's down to not having enough creative leadership experience at the top. Phil Spencer doesn't need to be a gamer; Jim Ryan's definitely not a gamer and still getting things done (though he's had some blunders himself). He doesn't even need to have helped lead game creation at a major scale. But you need SOMEONE at the top who has. Sony has Shuhei Yoshida, Herman Hulst etc. Who are Xbox's equivalents?

Matt Booty has experience with Minecraft, but IIRC he came in on that later and, at the end of the day, that's just Minecraft. I'm not surprised MS were able to make Sea of Thieves (eventually) work because you have someone from Minecraft overseeing that. But that didn't translate to success for Halo Infinite, did it? Aaron Greenberg is just marketing to my knowledge, I don't know what his credentials in games development are. Really, MS should have been promoting team leads from Playground, The Coalition etc. to upper management positions among the whole of Xbox because people on those teams have delivered modern (and past) AAA games, relatively successful ones, and they'd understand what to look for in managing teams well.

With Sony you can see that type of understanding even to the hardware itself when they have people like Mark Cerny involved, and he's been involved with the industry for decades plus help actively lead development of several notable games during his career.
 

reksveks

Member
They also said in the beginning they're acquiring Activision-Blizzard because they need King to compete in the mobile market for their metaverse incursion, and CoD was actually not a priority to them at all.
In the meantime they've changed goalposts a bunch of times, but it's not like people are keeping score or anything.
I would argue that most of the positions re the value of the deal has been implied by people instead of explicitly stated by Microsoft.

I would be interested to see the source of the quote about 'Microsoft wanting ABK to compete with Sony'. The deal imo is clearly bigger than Sony and consoles.
 
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The issue is that based off 'my reading' of the EC guidance, cloud gaming isn't easily defined as a separate market cause the suppliers are the same. I do wonder if the publishers are going to change their responses since the bethesda deal or the EC are going to read it slightly differently since the Zenimax deal.
The other important factor is that cloud gaming isn't even a separate offering from MS. It is rolled into Game pass Ultimate and Game pass is just an alternative payment method for getting access to the same retail games.

There are no separate markets and arguing that is just as silly as arguing that Nintendo isn't part of the market. MS is not dominant in any gaming market so I'd be really interested in seeing what the EC comes up with.
 

reksveks

Member
Oh yes, implied by people. Like this Satya Nadella dude tweeting out some obscure article that claims the acquisition will provide building blocks for the metaverse.



I mean who died and made him king? Sheesh..


Give me the quote linking King (not ABK) and the metaverse?

Here are the two quotes mentioning the metaverse.

This acquisition will accelerate the growth in Microsoft’s gaming business across mobile, PC, console and cloud and will provide building blocks for the metaverse.
“Gaming is the most dynamic and exciting category in entertainment across all platforms today and will play a key role in the development of metaverse platforms,” said Satya Nadella, chairman and CEO, Microsoft. “We’re investing deeply in world-class content, community and the cloud to usher in a new era of gaming that puts players and creators first and makes gaming safe, inclusive and accessible to all.”

Also if you did mean ABK instead of King, why are we ignoring the paragraph about mobile gaming? It's just bad faith arguments.
 
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I think many here would admit the deal can pass with concessions. The idea that this deal was going to pass without concessions was nothing but a wet dream in the current climate of consumer protectionism.

The biggest question here is whether or not Microsoft is willing to commit to those concessions or not.

If the EU, FTC and CMA make harsh demands like requiring for the most popular franchises to have a 12 year period of supply into the competition without any substantial preferential treatment towards Microsoft's platform (such as putting those games on their subscription service(s) on day 1), only then will we see Microsoft's commitment to the acquisition.

It's an interesting question, just how much are MS about this deal really. You would think, if it's about having a foothold in mobile and cloud, if whatever disturbance it could cause to Sony is just a bonus they could otherwise do without, if MS's past words about these acquisitions being about fending off Google, Apple, Amazon etc. (their "real" competitors, as they said a couple years ago), then any concessions stipulating supply of ABK's biggest IP to competing consoles for a decade or more would be okay be them.

Sure, it would be an annoyance, but if the target isn't actually to cripple a company like Sony whom in the past were not mentioned as a 'real' competitor, then whether they get those games for some years afterwards and with no particular perk benefits advantage for either of them, then I'd suspect MS wouldn't have a problem if that meant keeping Amazon, Apple etc. from getting ABK and controlling that content supply.

IMO if they can't lock CoD out of Playstation for the 10th generation consoles (~5 years?) and during that time make it look like the value proposition on Sony's side is much worse with year-long platform delays, day 1 gamepass, exclusive content, etc., then Microsoft is out of the deal.

This would line up more with the reality that seems to be manifesting, meaning for MS Sony is in fact a "real" competitor. I don't have anything against what MS would want to do here at a basic level; it's what any company would want to do with content they own which they feel could be leveraged against competitors. And as the company owning the content, I would think at a basic level MS are entitled to do things like Day 1 GamePass, exclusive content perks etc. because we see Sony do that for some 3P games they have comarketing rights to, let alone timed exclusivity.

So, I'm not sure if regulators would push for those types of concessions. Some of those might just be a bit extreme in terms of limiting what MS can do with content they've paid up for. But I do think it would be a good idea if concessions involved making sure Microsoft could not simply shut Sony out from bidding on those types of perks or marketing deals with IP like COD going forward.

But I think that could only be established if say COD were spun off as its own company, or there were some 3P approvals board established to handle biddings between platform holders for content perks, marketing deals etc. regardless of Microsoft owning the IP.

This acquisition is about trying to kill Sony on the next generation. The rest is peanuts.

And that's what makes me conflicted about it to a degree. On one hand, of course Microsoft would like a scenario where Sony's no longer a viable competitor and Xbox can eat up their market share. Any company in Microsoft's position would want that in relation to their competitors. So from a business POV I can understand that thinking.

I can probably even understand it from a customer POV because, hey, if it means those games are coming to Game Pass, that's money I get to keep saved in my pocket by subscribing vs. paying for the game outright. But, as a gamer, I can't gel with that scenario. Because the truth is Sony's been a better platform holder and market leader in gaming than pretty much every other platform holder. Better than Microsoft. Better than Sega. Better than NEC. Better than Nintendo.

If we're talking about having the best balance of big 1P games, quality 1P experiences, market-leading/industry-defining 1P games, capable hardware, fair prices, good marketing/branding/messaging, empowerment of 3P developers, services, and fostering market-leading/industry-defining gaming experiences (1P & 3P), there isn't a single platform holder that's consistently provided a better balance of that for multiple generations than Sony, and that's an indisputable fact. This isn't fanboyism talking; just look at the market results since Sony jumped in and see where they are now. That said, it doesn't mean I don't love Nintendo, Sega etc. consoles or games (some of my favorite consoles & games are from Nintendo & Sega!!), or that there aren't specific areas where other platform holders have had advantages over Sony in here or there (Sega for example with arcade games, Nintendo with platformers, Microsoft with online gaming services etc.).

But as an average, over multiple years, Sony comes out with the best balance. That's why they've been the market leader in home consoles for four of five generations, and the one generation they really fumbled (PS3), they still managed to recover and edge out the 360 (and have a much stronger finish in terms of games). So yeah as a gamer I would have some big problems if Sony were forced out of the market by a company that, historically, hasn't offered the most-balanced offering for multiple generations, and still has glaring issues with messaging, management, and output to this day.

I obviously want Microsoft to be successful. But, not if it comes at the expense of Sony being pushed out simply due to having less money to compete via buying out big publishers. Not because they made a series of poor business decisions pissing off their customer base like Sega, or making a so-far-ahead-of-its-time-it-was-disastrous business model like 3DO, or making bad hardware with lacking 1P support like Atari or failing to innovate with hardware like NEC. No, simply getting pushed out because they don't make a ton of money from other non-gaming areas that they could use to subsidize continued losses in gaming for years or even decades.

That's not a valid reason to be pushed out of a market IMHO.
 

ToTTenTranz

Banned
Got all the virtue signaling buzzwords. ✅
You need to keep that ESG score in check, so that regulators pass your massive anti-competitive acquisition.
Regulators just love when corporations try to use ESG as a backup for questionable mergers, especially the FTC.



Gotta love this guy. Wasn't he saying they won't need to make any concessions. How'd that turn out?

Yes, he did.
Nadella suggested that Microsoft should not need to make any formal concessions to win regulatory approval for the deal
 

Heisenberg007

Gold Journalism
We just had a report that said it’s going to take 5 years to make triple A games now. Also delays are not something only just Microsoft does. Sony Nintendo everyone goes through this including other publishers that delay all the time. Microsoft’s problem isn’t the management of their studios it’s the fact that they closed a lot of their first party studios during the end of the 360 era and became heavily 3rd party dependent while supplementing gears forza halo. This was a bad idea and them just starting to buy studios in 2018 didn’t help either some of those studios where finishing up other games for other publishers and had contractual obligations. So they probably didn’t start making 1st party content till 2020. Same year they acquired bathesda which also started making newer games in those years so it’s more so a timing issue vs management. I think starting this year going forward they’ll have content cause some of those studios would have had 4-5 year dev time on their projects.
Your timing estimates are a bit off.
  • Hellblade 2 started production in 2018 and hadn't entered full production by June 2021.
  • Fable started development in 2018.
  • Perfect Dark started development in 2018.
  • Avowed had already started development before MS acquired Obsidian in 2018 and was the core reason why Xbox acquired Obsidian.
  • Everwild has been in development since 2018.
And there are more examples.

It has been 5 years, and none of those games are scheduled to release anytime soon.

The issue isn't just the time. Xbox does need to improve its management to start releasing high-quality games at a consistent clip. Buying more studios will only decrease the possibility (because of limited budget and divided attention), not increase it.
 
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Your timing estimates are a bit off.
  • Hellblade 2 started production in 2018 and hadn't entered full production by June 2021.
  • Fable started development in 2018.
  • Perfect Dark started development in 2018.
  • Avowed had already started development before MS acquired Obsidian in 2018 and was the core reason why Xbox acquired Obsidian.
  • Everwild has been in development since 2018.
And there are more examples.

It has been 5 years, and none of those games are scheduled to release anytime soon.

The issue isn't just the time. Xbox does need to improve its management to start releasing high-quality games at a consistent clip. Buying more studios will only decrease the possibility (because of limited budget and divided attention), not increase it.
Hellblade wasn’t announced till 2019 at the game awards. None of those games your listed there entered production till after 2020. Where they in incubation and pre production sure. Fable wasn’t even fable playground made a demo of an open world game they wanted to make when they got bought up by Microsoft that concept became fable. Perfect dark wasn’t announced till 2020 at the game awards. They two were in early production. So as I said none of those games will be ready till 2024-25 at the earliest. Obsidian hadn’t started avowed they were still working on outer worlds and it’s dlc. Full production on avowed started in 2020 as well. So Idk where you got this info from. Pre production and incubation is not full production.
 
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Heisenberg007

Gold Journalism
Hellblade wasn’t announced till 2019 at the game awards. None of those games your listed there entered production till after 2020. Where they in incubation and pre production sure. Fable wasn’t even fable playground made a demo of an open world game they wanted to make when they got bought up by Microsoft that concept became fable. Perfect dark wasn’t announced till 2020 at the game awards. They two were in early production. So as I said none of those games will be ready till 2024-25 at the earliest. Obsidian hadn’t started avowed they were still working on outer worlds and it’s dlc. Full production on avowed started in 2020 as well. So Idk where you got this info from. Pre production and incubation is not full production.
Why are you going by "announced" dates? These games started production a while before they were announced.
  • Perfect Dark started production in 2018 when Xbox set up The Initiatve in 2018.
  • Hellblade 2 has been in production since 2018 and was unveiled in 2019. If it remained in pre-production till June 2021 for 3 years, then that's a sign of mismanagement.
  • Avowed has been in development since at least 2018, as evident by this Lead Area Designer's Linkedin Profile.
  • Everwild started pre-production in 2016! It's been 7 years and no sign of release anytime soon. Will be more like 8-9 years when/if it comes.
  • Fable has been in development since 2017, as confirmed by its developer's tweet:
 
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ToTTenTranz

Banned
I can probably even understand it from a customer POV because, hey, if it means those games are coming to Game Pass, that's money I get to keep saved in my pocket by subscribing vs. paying for the game outright.
Said customers are just assuming Game Pass is going to maintain its subscription price after Microsoft makes a $70B acquisition to include more high profile games in their service?


I obviously want Microsoft to be successful. But, not if it comes at the expense of Sony being pushed out simply due to having less money to compete via buying out big publishers. Not because they made a series of poor business decisions pissing off their customer base like Sega, or making a so-far-ahead-of-its-time-it-was-disastrous business model like 3DO, or making bad hardware with lacking 1P support like Atari or failing to innovate with hardware like NEC. No, simply getting pushed out because they don't make a ton of money from other non-gaming areas that they could use to subsidize continued losses in gaming for years or even decades.
This is exactly what the Sherman Antitrust Act exists for, as well as their EU equivalents TFEU Articles 101 and 102.
A richer company can't just buy their way into a dominant position by acquiring a supplier that is common to their competitors and block their supply.

These are very old rules that big corporations have traditionally ignored because they hadn't been enforced for almost two decades, and this is probably why Microsoft was apparently so ill prepared for the regulator responses they're getting.
Had they tried this in 2014 and the deal would probably have gone without a hitch.




Not to mention, MS isn't even in meta verse.
They are usually in the AR business.
Microsoft isn't even in metaverse because they're usually in the AR business?
https://www.google.com/search?q=fac...IcKQEHQVaAXwQ_B16BAhvEAE#imgrc=Bm7z4KCrBnVSUM

Facepalm - Wikipedia
 

feynoob

Gold Member
Hellblade 2 has been in production since 2018 and was unveiled in 2019. If it remained in pre-production till June 2021 for 3 years, then that's a sign of mismanagement.
Company moved to a new building.
There is no mismanagement there, especially with them waiting for UE5.

Gaming market isn't quick, unless you have the resources and 3rd party devs who are ready to assist you.
 
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ToTTenTranz

Banned
A yearly fee for all MS profit ? Of for what they made from that specific deal.

If it's the former then of course not.
AFAIK it's all profit.
Otherwise companies could simply isolate and downscale the business unit responsible for the blocked part of the deal to mitigate the sanctions.

Company moved to a new building.
The game is late because they changed buildings?
With the cost of software developers in Cambridge and the specialized moving services that these companies use, how in the world does that translate to more than a week-long delay?

At least blame it on covid like everyone else.
 
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Orbital2060

Member
So who do yall think should buy ATVI? Who should they turn to. Its not going to be Tencent seeing how Kotick has shut down all business in China.
 

feynoob

Gold Member
The game is late because they changed buildings?
With the cost of software developers in Cambridge and the specialized moving services that these companies use, how in the world does that translate to more than a week-long delay?

At least blame it on covid like everyone else.
They moved to a new HQ.
You should know how that affects their work.
 
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