Ha I swear someone here basically posted that in so many words as MS's official response would be.
Fucking hell. I planned on having my XBLIG revenues for next week, but now I'm fucked and I will have to borrow...
What a fucking disgrace.
ID@Xbox parity clause wasn't fucking bad enough for indies Microsoft? Fucking pay them.
Taking advantage of the most vulnerable devs in the community.
Disgusting.
Except that if the devs posting here are telling the truth this shit happens more than just this one time.Like I was saying, just seems like a big unfortunate fuck up, nothing "disgusting" happening.
Except they are not working for your company.
Like I was saying, just seems like a big unfortunate fuck up, nothing "disgusting" happening.
How do you not notice this till now?
Its still horse shit that someone in the Ms cog didn't even realise payments weren't made. We're not talking a few days here, it's months.
And they're STILL taking a further 2 weeks to pay up, and only when news of this fuck up went public.
This is exactly where its most disgusting. Unless you can somehow get an interest free loan, you're actually losing money on their fuck up.
Like I was saying, just seems like a big unfortunate fuck up, nothing "disgusting" happening.
FYI
https://twitter.com/ID_Xbox/status/540275992619532288
I also just want to confirm that this was related to Xbox Live Indie Games program on Xbox 360 only, no ID@Xbox developer has received late payments.
Again, we're very sorry about this incident and it won't happen again.
-Chris
Why is this an important bit of information?
Well, the point is that whether or not something is wrong is not connected to measuring the harm that it causes.
I believe this is wrong, it should be fixed, and it's scummy that they're doing this on a somewhat regular basis.
I also recognize that we're referring to a tiny, vanishingly small program that's about to be shut down and has been understaffed for three or four years now and whose target audience is (largely) hobbyist developers rather than people trying to make a career of it--so the evocations of "people won't make rent" is a bit of a mismatch with the general audience of the program, even though there are a few cases for whom that's true. In fact that's the essential tension here. There's a program and it's being managed for the bulk of its target audience, which are basically tinkerers who don't care much about the commercial side, but it's also attracted a variety of professionals doing top tier work and who need ongoing income from it. Even when MS was paying the bills, there were complaints from this tier of devs because their work wasn't being promoted effectively. So it's a long-simmering tension. This isn't ID@XBOX, anything on Xbox One, or XBLA. This is referring to XBLIG.
Again, it's still wrong, it should still be fixed, it's not right, it's not defensible. But defining the parameters of the harm is also important for approaching issues lucidly. In the same way, if Valve didn't pay TF2 item makers for a few months, that would be wrong, and something that should be solved, but it would also hardly make sense to respond with "WOW STEAM IS THE PRIMARY LIVELIHOOD FOR MOST OF THE GAME INDUSTRY AND VALVE ARE THIEVES". That doesn't mean standing against the people who deserve to be paid. It just means that one's sensitivity to wrong is in part based on the magnitude of the harm caused by the wrong.
One moral of the story here is that contracts that are insignificant to one partner in the contract and extremely important to the other partner in the contract are the most likely ones to have harms resulting from delivery issues. Clearly it's not right to treat smaller partners badly at all, of course, and I don't think anyone is going to disagree.
Setting aside this particular issue, I think in general MS has mismanaged their relationship with indies a number of times over the years. That's true for XBLIG, which has always been an also-ran for them, and their more professional-oriented programs. If any XBLIG devs can feasibly do so, they should be at least working to supplement their income with mobile and PC offerings (and maybe even PS Minis if that's possible at this point?) And then for the sort of more professional XBLIG devs who can qualify for ID@XBOX or Wii U or PS4 development, to look into that seriously if they plan on doing this stuff professionally rather than as a hobby. If not for their own sake, then at least so their games can still be played in a few years. I know the Zeboyd guys have already done this.
I hope MS fixes this soon and if they intend to end the program, they should just end it rather than dicking people around for no reason.
Because people in the thread didn't know this and were confusing the two, hell I didn't know it either.
Because people in the thread didn't know this and were confusing the two, hell I didn't know it either.
Why is this an important bit of information?
FYI
https://twitter.com/ID_Xbox/status/540275992619532288
I also just want to confirm that this was related to Xbox Live Indie Games program on Xbox 360 only, no ID@Xbox developer has received late payments.
Again, we're very sorry about this incident and it won't happen again.
-Chris
There is no meaningful difference between the two.
FYI
https://twitter.com/ID_Xbox/status/540275992619532288
I also just want to confirm that this was related to Xbox Live Indie Games program on Xbox 360 only, no ID@Xbox developer has received late payments.
Again, we're very sorry about insistencethis incident and it won't happen again.
-Chris
Let's not forget the amazing 1000 Spikes.
There is no meaningful difference between the two.
60 days is not much to get concerned about IMO. Most companies have a 90 days policy for these kind of transactions. I sure know my company uses a 90 days policy.
Again, we're very sorry about this incident and it won't happen again.
-Chris
Thanks for the response Chris, but...it's a little difficult to swallow at the moment. Payments haven't been received since September, 2-3 months ago, but it was "recently learned"?FYI
https://twitter.com/ID_Xbox/status/540275992619532288
I also just want to confirm that this was related to Xbox Live Indie Games program on Xbox 360 only, no ID@Xbox developer has received late payments.
Again, we're very sorry about this incident and it won't happen again.
-Chris
FYI
https://twitter.com/ID_Xbox/status/540275992619532288
I also just want to confirm that this was related to Xbox Live Indie Games program on Xbox 360 only, no ID@Xbox developer has received late payments.
Again, we're very sorry about this incident and it won't happen again.
-Chris
Also kind of unbelievable when we have devs here and on twitter saying they've contacted MS directly and even sent some letters threatening legal action and whatnot. Seems a bit strange that MS "just learned" of this on the exact same day an article was written about it no?
They just learned that more people were starting to get pissed about it.
But look on the bright side, no issues with the new platform! Forget the old stuff
FYI
https://twitter.com/ID_Xbox/status/540275992619532288
I also just want to confirm that this was related to Xbox Live Indie Games program on Xbox 360 only, no ID@Xbox developer has received late payments.
Again, we're very sorry about this incident and it won't happen again.
-Chris
If they knew it was happening, this thread wouldn't even exist, but I see we are accepting assumptions here?
I don't get why everybody's so hostile towards people who are taking a more level headed approach about this. I'm not the only one.
If they knew it was happening, this thread wouldn't even exist, but I see we are accepting assumptions here?
I don't get why everybody's so hostile towards people who are taking a more level headed approach about this. I'm not the only one.
The devs here have confirmed this has happened repeatedly. I see no reason to believe your insistence that this is the last time.
This has happened many, many times before, and will continue to happen. The xblig backend is fundamentally broken, and always has been. There's been nothing but quick fixes applied for years.
Thanks for the response Chris, but...it's a little difficult to swallow at the moment. Payments haven't been received since September, 2-3 months ago, but it was "recently learned"?
What about the multiple developers on here that have stated this isn't the first time it's happened?
They just learned that more people were starting to get pissed about it.
But look on the bright side, no issues with the new platform! Forget the old stuff
They shouldn't have waited for "more people." One or two people not getting paid on time is a big enough deal to look into the automatic payment platform and see if it has bugs.
Everyone systematically not getting paid on time for multiple months is incredibly nasty negligence.
Bahaha..."technical" issue, right.
Yes, because MS wants to piss off people who will complain and generate this thread where people say "FUCK MS". That was their goal, don't you know.
......................... For Microsoft, it's better if people have a good perception of the 360 and the One.
The more things change...yep.
Has Phil Spencer been paid for September?
Fixed for accuracy.
Meh....even MS doesn't want the public to have a bad perception of the 360. Another edit.
Well once this story got out, something was going to be tarnished no matter what. Better XBLIG than ID@Xbox, better the 360 than the Xbone.