Mighty No.9 Kickstarter (PS4/XB1 & Vita/3DS are GO!) (Inafune/IC, $4M FUNDED)

massoluk

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Dec 19, 2011
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I didn't know there was a shit storm over there. Looking at it, new CM makes creepy fan-art and made weird game design suggestion on twitter. Really, guys? Giving them shits over this?
 

Tusk

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Jul 23, 2013
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I dont care for any of this stuff, aslong as her apparent "agenda" isn't pushed onto the game. Which I doubt it will.
She said she's also working on designs? She's probably just making designs for pointless background NPC's or small enemies, or something for all we know.
As for her lack of knowledge on Megaman. that does slightly bother me, though.. There's a wiki, youtube, and just plain google.
 

Maedhros

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Apr 16, 2010
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Now I can understand why Capcom will never make a Megaman game ever again. This fanbase... fucking ridiculous.

I'm getting ashamed to be part of the funding, seriously. I should have waited for the finished product.
 

Tusk

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Jul 23, 2013
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Now I can understand why Capcom will never make a Megaman game ever again. This fanbase... fucking ridiculous.

I'm getting ashamed to be part of the funding, seriously. I should have waited for the finished product.
There are worse fanbases out there. :p Every fanbase has a shit side, and a great side.
Just gotta ignore the bad sometimes.
 

Maedhros

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Apr 16, 2010
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There are worse fanbases out there. :p Every fanbase has a shit side, and a great side.
Just gotta ignore the bad sometimes.
Yeah, I agree.

It's one of the worst I've seen, though. I think they are too passionate about it.
 

Parallax

best seen in the classic "Shadow of the Beast"
Sep 11, 2005
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Now I can understand why Capcom will never make a Megaman game ever again. This fanbase... fucking ridiculous.

I'm getting ashamed to be part of the funding, seriously. I should have waited for the finished product.
I think the fanbase had become rabid since capcom has constantly shit on it, not because they were initially.
 

Tusk

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Jul 23, 2013
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Yeah, I agree.

It's one of the worst I've seen, though. I think they are too passionate about it.
Yeah, they seem to be.

I hope this'll all blow over soon, this'll be a great game, and her designing wont change that. I mean, her design suggestions may not even get into the game, or even be altered before being placed in.
 

Ithil

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Apr 19, 2011
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The bizarre hysterics some people on the internet go into at the mere mention of the words "tumblr" or "feminism" bemuse me. Would said people even be able to justify at length their high blood pressure over it without sounding like a complete moron or nutcase? Because it seems like all that ever happens is spouting some histrionic buzzwords that rarely make any sense.

This whole thing appears to matter very little as it pertains to the actual video game. I think a lot of people need to watch the Double Fine Adventure documentary, because they don't seem to know how game development happens.
 

ShinobiFist

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Jun 30, 2009
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Now I can understand why Capcom will never make a Megaman game ever again. This fanbase... fucking ridiculous.

I'm getting ashamed to be part of the funding, seriously. I should have waited for the finished product.
The fact that she has design input and the fact she said at the forums that X is the best MM, but she said on Twitter that she never played one is what is pissing some people off. Regardless, people have the right to ask for their money back. KS allows you that.
 

qq more

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Feb 5, 2010
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also, saying that megaman fans deserved their games to be cancelled just because of this dumb controversy is just as bad


I dont deserve a megaman game anymore because of ridiculous fans and some controversy i have no part of (and no control over)?! give me a break...
 

erpg

GAF parliamentarian
May 10, 2009
15,207
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I'll just quote what I said last night:

"Now, the video is just as needlessly militant as its portrayal of Dina, but anger at feminists aside, I can see where they're coming from. Nepotism sucks, and even if it exists everywhere, it's sickening to see it exposed. It's worse when the person involved doesn't seem qualified for the position. The game raised 3.8 million based on its pitch, and I'm sure backers wouldn't want that tampered with by someone after the fact. At the same time, it's a Kickstarter, and it's a massive production. You don't know who's working on this, and every employee always brings their own perspective. When the funding bell rings, you'll have seen a bit of concept art and have a general idea of the game's design, but from that point on, it's a blind buy. Attributing your fears to one person just because you have a little dirt isn't very reasonable. That's a very small scope."
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=733366&

I could see the worry being completely justified if this Dina was Yuri, but she isn't. She's one person out of a large group, and you can't single anyone out like that on a production. Everyone there will have an opinion.
 

Tadale

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From the Mighty No. 9 blog comments:

This is not like giving to charity.
This is an investment.
Investors can pull funding at anytime if the project is not to their liking. If a backer wants to retract their money from the game, they can make such a request from Comcept. If they are not willing to oblige the request, there exist other methods to retrieving your capital.
This is the most distilled reason I can imagine of how if I was a developer, I wouldn't want to be involved in a Kickstarter game. You get fools like this thinking they've got some overriding power over the project.

How embarrassing for this community.
 

Ithil

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Apr 19, 2011
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From the Mighty No. 9 blog comments:



This is the most distilled example I can imagine of if I was a developer, I wouldn't want to be involved in a Kickstarter game. You get fools like this thinking they've got some overriding power over the project.

How embarrassing for this community.
I like the part where he literally says the opposite of what's true. It's not an investment, because an investment implies a return. It's a donation, through and through, with the incentive of rewards. I don't know how people figured those were the same things.
 

Wereroku

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From the Mighty No. 9 blog comments:



This is the most distilled example I can imagine of if I was a developer, I wouldn't want to be involved in a Kickstarter game. You get fools like this thinking they've got some overriding power over the project.

How embarrassing for this community.
Dude i think this is silly as well but there have been lawsuits over several kickstarters and they have been successful. You are an investor in the eyes of courts so that is very much something you can go through with if you want. Also the whole point of the project was for fans to have some input and power over the project so its kind of stupid to state people shouldn't expect that.

I like the part where he literally says the opposite of what's true. It's not an investment, because an investment implies a return. It's a donation, through and through, with the incentive of rewards. I don't know how people figured those were the same things.
Several lawsuits have determined that it is very much like a non equity investment. The reward is the return on your investment in this case.
 

Tadale

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Dude i think this is silly as well but there have been lawsuits over several kickstarters and they have been successful. You are an investor in the eyes of courts so that is very much something you can go through with if you want. Also the whole point of the project was for fans to have some input and power over the project so its kind of stupid to state people shouldn't expect that.
Show me a lawsuit where backers were successful in arguing that the character design in a game or tone of a game was different from what backers expected - that's absolutely ridiculous.. What you're talking about are projects that failed to deliver at all.
 

Some Nobody

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Juliet's 8½ Spirits;93439687 said:
I love how you keep pulling shit out of your ass and playing it off as fact
also improper hire =/= nepotism, I hope you know the difference
The reality is that guy was right. If you believe that most people are qualified for their jobs and didn't get in off a connection OF SOME SORT, then...you're far more idealistic than most.

She's talking about changing the main character, who is already established, to a female. She has much more of a voice and influence than anyone here and she is a character designer who designed and put a lot of effort into a pretty hideous looking female Beck. It's not even in the same ballpark when it comes to matching the style of the rest of the MN9 art.

These are the things that scare me.
These two statements...LOL. I don't really have feminist leanings at all, but uhm...so? Having this character's gender changed from female to male just isn't a big deal to me when I haven't actually played the game to become attached to the character yet. And no one else has either.

Now I need everyone to understand two things: First, that Inafune's vision probably isn't going to change that much from what he has already. Second, I need you all to sit down and ask yourself why playing as a female character is really something that would cause you to take time out of your own busy schedules and get upset enough to post all these comments.
 

Ithil

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Dude i think this is silly as well but there have been lawsuits over several kickstarters and they have been successful. You are an investor in the eyes of courts so that is very much something you can go through with if you want. Also the whole point of the project was for fans to have some input and power over the project so its kind of stupid to state people shouldn't expect that.



Several lawsuits have determined that it is very much like a non equity investment. The reward is the return on your investment in this case.
And their argument here in court will be...."one of the forum moderators hasn't played enough Megaman games, I want my ten dollars back"? The idea that this warrants pulling your backing is nonsensical. And before someone says "she's a designer, she could ruin the game somehow!", at the very most, she's a low level artist. They do not "do what they like", they do the designs the lead designers tell them to. It's like being concerned that one of the flute players in a 120-piece orchestra has an "agenda" and could somehow transform the entire sypmhony, when in reality they follow their sheet music (written by someone else) and the conductor's lead.

If she draws designs for minor parts of the game, they will NOT look like that ugly female Beck drawing, because that looks nothing like the art of the rest of the game, and the art director has no use for that. All the artists draw to the art director's lead, they don't determine the project themselves.

She's talking about changing the main character, who is already established, to a female. She has much more of a voice and influence than anyone here and she is a character designer who designed and put a lot of effort into a pretty hideous looking female Beck. It's not even in the same ballpark when it comes to matching the style of the rest of the MN9 art.

These are the things that scare me.
This is just silly, now. You aren't taking any facet of game development into account.
 

Maedhros

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Apr 16, 2010
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The fact that she has design input and the fact she said at the forums that X is the best MM, but she said on Twitter that she never played one is what is pissing some people off. Regardless, people have the right to ask for their money back. KS allows you that.
Great.They should get their money back and stop bitching on the internet.

Also, I doubt she'll have any important input on the main character. It's not like she is changing Beck to be a woman, for fucks sake. Beck is a male character, that won't change. We have Call for a female character.

And it would be great to have her a playable character. I don't see why they couldn't do that in the first place.
 

phosphor112

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May 23, 2009
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Great.They should get their money back and stop bitching on the internet.
Do you think this is a muthafuckin game? lol

EDIT: What is an MRA?

Obviously, in the context it's being used, it certainly doesn't mean Magnetic Resonance Angiography. That's what MRA means to me...

EDIT 2: "Male Rights Activist" Hah.. now every time someone(or I) says MRA, I'll think of this mess. -__-.
 

Wereroku

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Show me a lawsuit where backers were successful in arguing that the character design in a game or tone of a game was different from what backers expected - that's absolutely ridiculous.. What you're talking about are projects that failed to deliver at all.
Dude i am not arguing about that I am saying that kickstarter backers are considered investors I think this whole thing is stupid as hell as well. She is a bad artist but it will have little to no effect on the game as a whole. Though I do have to say I do find it silly that they hired a CM who knows little about the main influences of the game but I am sure there has been worse hires in the history of video games. Also to be fair to the mn9 fanbase there has been investor lawsuits that were sillier then your hypothetical one before. Humans are crazy.

And their argument here in court will be...."one of the forum moderators hasn't played enough Megaman games, I want my ten dollars back"? The idea that this warrants pulling your backing is nonsensical. And before someone says "she's a designer, she could ruin the game somehow!", at the very most, she's a low level artist. They do not "do what they like", they do the designs the lead designers tell them to. It's like being concerned that one of the flute players in a 120-piece orchestra has an "agenda" and could somehow transform the entire sypmhony, when in reality they follow their sheet music (written by someone else) and the conductor's lead.
Actually your example is horrible I have been to a symphony that had a musician that was horrible and the conductor stopped the show and removed them it was really awkward but they were making the whole show worse.
 

chaobreaker

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I kind of like her art, as least what art I seen in her blogs. It's a shame so many people think it looks like trash. It probably has to do with the irrational notion that her genderswap Beck design is going to be in the final game, punk look and all.
 

Ithil

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Apr 19, 2011
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Dude i am not arguing about that I am saying that kickstarter backers are considered investors I think this whole thing is stupid as hell as well. She is a bad artist but it will have little to no effect on the game as a whole. Though I do have to say I do find it silly that they hired a CM who knows little about the main influences of the game but I am sure there has been worse hires in the history of video games. Also to be fair to the mn9 fanbase there has been investor lawsuits that were sillier then your hypothetical one before. Humans are crazy.



Actually your example is horrible I have been to a symphony that had a musician that was horrible and the conductor stopped the show and removed them it was really awkward but they were making the whole show worse.
Then it isn't a horrible example, because if she sucks as an artist in the course of the development, they will just stop using her. They are not making any commitment to use her work.
 

Tusk

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Jul 23, 2013
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I kind of like her art, as least what art I seen in her blogs. It's a shame so many people think it looks like trash. It probably has to do with the irrational notion that her genderswap Beck design is going to be in the final game, punk look and all.
To be entirely honest. That Beck fanart is pretty bad, imo. Though, it's only because of the way she drew the face.
Though, some of her art is okay, I can agree with that. Not great, but it's decent.
 

HolyBaikal

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Feb 16, 2012
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On the subject of her art, I'm honestly not all that big of a fan of it, for obvious reasons. I'm well known as a big fan of anime here on NeoGAF and her character design definitely isn't "anime"(well, in Japan, all cartoons are anime, but I'm using the Western context of the word).

It's not bad as far as non-anime designs are concerned. There are certainly some Western styles of design I like less. But it definitely isn't to my personal taste, particularly in comparison to the original anime designs of the game. That's not the way I enjoy facial design.

That being said, she's working alongside a lot of people and I think that her artistic style will need to mesh to and accommodate theirs, not theirs mesh to her own personal, less 'anime' style. I doubt that she has a very significant influence in the design of the game. She is one newcomer among many veterans.

Also, if the astronomically unlikely event that her design did result in the designs for the game being less manga or anime, the people funding this game would make a huge outcry. You might even see petition sites springing up to "keep Mighty No. 9 anime".

The fact of the matter is, while her art style isn't personally to my taste. As I like anime. It's her art style and she's entitled to it. And I don't think that the things about her art style that isn't to my taste or to other people here, is going to have any noticeable influence on the aesthetics of the game.
 

biocat

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You guys are nuts if you think a community manager who just got hired and who has no industry experience is going to influence the game.

She's just there to facilitate news and help brew excitement in the community.
 

DCharlie

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Nope. That's not how the real world works. Most people are hired regardless of their skills, and the rest of us just have to work with them.
.... wow. How do you know you are seen as one of the skilled ones then? ;)
 

Dark Octave

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So what? I didn't think the current cliche character already had the depth and deep rooted story to it that would put Shakespeare's classics to shame

This is why gamers are stereotyped the way they are



Sad
These two statements...LOL. I don't really have feminist leanings at all, but uhm...so? Having this character's gender changed from female to male just isn't a big deal to me when I haven't actually played the game to become attached to the character yet. And no one else has either.

Now I need everyone to understand two things: First, that Inafune's vision probably isn't going to change that much from what he has already. Second, I need you all to sit down and ask yourself why playing as a female character is really something that would cause you to take time out of your own busy schedules and get upset enough to post all these comments.
I have no problem with the character being female. I'm designing an indie game right now where a female is the lead character. My issue WAS that the character was already established and was awarded a successful kickstarter with that character as the focal point. To change anything about the character now (red suit, buff arms, no helmet, ect...) would be in a way, going back on the promise of what the game was intended to be. If I kickstarted this, then I want exactly this. Same if Beck was already female and there was an uproar for her to be male.

But like I said, it WAS an issue I had. I'm not worried about it anymore.
 

chaobreaker

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In an ironic twist, the backers who are outraged enough by all this to demand a refund are sabotaging the game's development harder than this community manager would ever hypothetically will.
 

Diggeh

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Dec 8, 2011
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Here you go, friends. Straight from the Mighty. No 9 forums.

Hey guys n gals—Mark from 8-4 here!

First of all, thank you to everyone who has been participating on the forums! Everyone on the team is SUPER happy to see so many made the jump over, even as we continue to refine and improve the functionality and speed. We also want to apologize that the lack of certain features (private messaging, the reply system, thread locking, etc.) can make finding the discussions you want to take part in a bit challenging, but rest assured we are working on improvements and watching the suggestion threads closely to help set priorities.

One thing that has really highlighted the shortcomings of the current forum setup (especially the fact we can't lock threads to consolidate them) has been the biggest topic of the last couple days: the introduction of our official community manager, Dina. Along with plenty of congrats and well-wishes (thanks to all those folks!), some backers have expressed perfectly understandable concerns about exactly how their voice would be represented to the team, and have been discussing (in a mostly-civil manner, though sadly with a few loud exceptions) what they might imagine the implications of this new role could be on the community and the project.

Will the community manager be skewing things the way they would personally like to see the game? Will the community manager ignore views that don’t match with their own personal ideals? Will the community manager lose the community’s desires due to unfamiliarity with the type of game we are making? Will the community manager be creating their own robots and levels and programming, or changing the game in any way, from what the core creative team wants?! A lot of these or similar questions have been raised.

The good news is that the answer, in all cases, is no.


The job of the community manager is to act as a conduit between the community and the team – basically help keep the team filled in on what all of you are talking about, and help keep all of you filled in on what’s going on with the team internally. A community manager who filtered this process to further any personal agenda would not, by definition, be a community manager! :) and the fact that they were doing so would be immediately obvious to the team, who is plugged into the community in more ways than one.

When it comes to feedback, a Community Manager needs to be detached and impartial, and rest assured, Dina is and will be (in fact, one of the first bits of feedback she passed along were the concerns some had about how she would work in her new role, which is why I’m posting this here, today. :)

As far as affecting the game in other ways, rest assured all direction and decisions are still in the hands of all the same people they have been from the start. Everyone should know that choosing a community manager is not something the team took lightly -- all the key players at Comcept were involved in the selection and hiring process, all the way up to and including Inafune himself. We are supremely confident we made a great choice, as we think you will all agree as you get to know Dina and see her work.

Of course, the proof will be in the doing -- we look forward to hearing what you all think as we start to roll out different aspects of our community involvement over the next few months, starting next week with the second round of the Call vote! (And maybe some smaller tidbits sprinkled here and there we have planned semi-regularly to get you glimpses behind the action, posted here to the forums from time to time). In the meantime, you can learn more about Dina and see her in action (or ask a question yourself!) in her Ask Me Anything thread in Off-Topic.

Speaking of which, as a point of order we will be moving all threads having to do with Dina and the community manager role in general (except this one! Feel free to sound off here) into the Off Topic section, since, at this point, they are largely about personnel, personal views or politics. We also know there are many redundant and overlapping threads on this and others topics, but without a lock feature (where we could post a link to the one thread to use for any similar topic), we will just let them keep going for now, to err on the side of transparency. Hopefully the web team can get the lock feature soon so we can consolidate threads on the same topic – BIG apologies to the vast majority of folks who are just here to actually talk about the game! :)

EDIT: Update -- while I was working on this today, the team figured out how to lock threads!! Huzzah! Look for similar threads to be locked and redirected so that we have less duplicate threads about the same stuff! Yay! ;D

Finally, and importantly, I wanted to give HUGE thanks once again to all the Beckers who have been helping point others to info on this topic, clarify misunderstandings, and generally been helpful to their fellow Beckers. You impress us everyday with your generosity and positive energy – thank you thank you thank you! :D

Sincerely,
Mark (Mighty No. 84)
Now quit your bellyaching. This wasn't an issue to begin with.
 

R0ckman

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May 8, 2009
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It disturbs me that people are thinking the fanbase deserves this. It is NEVER good to have a manager that is not representing you are the people under them in spirit. The fuck is with some of the people commenting positively on this? These people gave their money. I just found out about this, I didn't fund this game over hundreds to have someone that is not qualified to work at the company or represent the community. Hopefully she gets canned.
 

Maedhros

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It disturbs me that people are thinking the fanbase deserves this. It is NEVER good to have a manager that is not representing you are the people under them in spirit. The fuck is with some of the people commenting positively on this? These people gave their money. I just found out about this, I didn't fund this game over hundreds to have someone that is not qualified to work at the company or represent the community. Hopefully she gets canned.
ROFLMAO.

I recommend you to get your money back man.
 

chaobreaker

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That's not really the same as Vent and Aile in XZ; if anything, it's just what they did with Roll in Powered Up.
Vent and Aile also played exactly the same. Same with the protags in ZX Advent. The game would benefit more from having a potentially unique playable character like Call than a genderswap version of Beck. If the devs want to put the time and effort to add both then I'm fine with that. At this moment all I want is a unique extra character and since Call is guaranteed to be playable...
 

chaobreaker

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It is NEVER good to have a manager that is not representing you are the people under them in spirit.
Well it's a good thing that the people claiming she doesn't represent them are merely a vocal minority, one that most likely didn't back the game in the first place.
 
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Uh, we already have that, Call is a playable character.
Technically, but not really. You can only play as her in a multiplayer-only co-op mode and maybe a special level, but not in the rest of the main game. That is a very, VERY different thing from having fully playable characters of both genders, which is something that the game absolutely should do. ZX and ZX Advent both had that, and it was a great option!
 

R0ckman

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Well it's a good thing that the people claiming she doesn't represent them are merely a vocal minority, one that most likely didn't back the game in the first place.
The forums actually went to hell from what I've researched. You can only get to the forum by backing the game. Do you need more of a break down?
 

Kinvara

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Jan 31, 2012
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The outrage over a minor employee is embarrassing. I'd definitely appreciate a playable female character.

(Btw, I'm a backer and I've never played a Megaman game.)