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[AwShucks]

Yep, pulling my backing on torment, consortium and shovel knight.

You are going to stop supporting those guys because of this? That's unfortunate.

 

[Bowling Pin]

You are going to stop supporting those guys because of this? That's unfortunate.

There are other ways of sending those devs money besides Kickstarter.

 

[Keavy_Rain]

At this point, there could be a huge reveal that the kids aren't even hers, she's never had kids, and the whole thing is actually an elaborate ruse and I would say "Ehh, I'm not surprised."

As for Kickstarter, I'm not mad at them. They're out to make money and companies violate their T&C's all the time if it makes them money or makes themselves look good.

Just watch, regardless of what happens this whole thing will become old news and we'll go back to talking about Kickstarter projects we want to fund, just like we did before because actually doing something more than bitching on a forum takes effort.

 

[Keyouta]

Why is this still up? Very disappointed in Kickstarter. Do their own rules not even matter or it's just up to their digression what gets in and out?

 

[ChosenPredator]

im blown away what im reading on the comments of her kickstarter update..the back of my brain is revolting

 

[Aquamarine]

Why is this still up? Very disappointed in Kickstarter. Do their own rules not even matter or it's just up to their digression what gets in and out?

It's this. As long as it's framed under the guise of "helping the underprivileged," any level of TOS violation / scam is acceptable.

 

[JDSN]

You are going to stop supporting those guys because of this? That's unfortunate.

They dont set those up unless the goals are met and the torment guys support Kick it forward which means KS will continue getting cash indirectly even after the initial pledge is done.

 

[CharmingCharlie]

You are going to stop supporting those guys because of this? That's unfortunate.

You have to be wary of Kickstarter when they blatantly refuse to enforce their own rules. As far as I can see this kickstarter has broken several Kickstarter rules yet Kickstarter are just letting it slide.

I personally never bothered much with Kickstarter (only ever backed one project) but I can say with absolute certainty the way Kickstarter has policed this thing makes it highly unlikely I will be backing any more projects on their site.

 

[Shosai]

You have to be wary of Kickstarter when they blatantly refuse to enforce their own rules. As far as I can see this kickstarter has broken several Kickstarter rules yet Kickstarter are just letting it slide.

I personally never bothered much with Kickstarter (only ever backed one project) but I can say with absolute certainty the way Kickstarter has policed this thing makes it highly unlikely I will be backing any more projects on their site.

I have to ask- how does the existence of another dumb kickstarter which we would never put money towards effect us? How does it effect the kickstatrter projects that we do support?

Yes, its yet another dumb thing that I wouldn't put a dollar towards helping it see the light of day, but so are 95% of all kickstarter projects, in my opinion. And if I got upset every time I saw strangers on the internet spend their money in ways that I would not, I'd have died of cardiac arrest in 2006. There are billions of dollars in transactions and investments being made online every day. Maybe I'm just missing the time and energy to get behind a campaign to assess every dollar spent that isn't mine.

So here's a whole bunch of terribly overpriced kickstarters:

http://www.buzzfeed.com/katienotopoulos/37-saddest-failed-kickstarters

What makes this bad kickstarter unique? Firstly, this one has a lot of supporters. Second, it has a lot of detractors, because it has a lot of supporters. Now, one could argue that if a kickstarter has a large backing, it justifies it's own existence. The project should go forward because hey, obviously there's an audience for it. Of course, there's the concern that maybe the supporters don't know any better, and that they're being ripped off.

But in this case I don't think any of the supporters are sincerely expecting to get a decent game in return for their investments.

 

[FunkyMunkey]

KickStarter are looking at the % ($) they're going to get from this, and placing that above their "reputation". Disgusting.

21k now, too. whatthefuckamireadingronaldmacdonald.jpg

Literally, someone could use KickStarter to get a 3-month vacation to Fiji using a sob story. Then while there, write a simple flash game/make a t-shirt/make a greeting card/anything, send it to the contributors, then boom it's not against the rules.

Like I said, as long as KS gets their kickback, they don't really care.

 

[Mumei]

The issue is that it's framed as asking for $829 to pay for what effectively is tuition. This is against the ToS. But since its supposedly a 9 year old girl, and they're invoking gender issue stuff, that makes it okay.

Eh. I guess I see a fundamental difference between a child attending a camp for a short time (what, a week?) and an adult going to college for four years. I don't think that the former is "tuition."

Honestly, I do think it sounds dumb. I don't think it sounds like she needed the money to send her daughter to this camp, I do agree that she was bringing up gender issues in tech industries in order to sell the Kickstarter to potential backers, and I think that the game being offered will almost certainly suck. I just don't really care that that's true, and it doesn't really bother me that it exists in the first place.

I was only quibbling about the game in my first post, since it was obviously part of her intent from the beginning. You don't ask for $829, and make a $10 funding tier for "getting the game" if you don't plan on making something.

 

[Megalosaro]

It's this. As long as it's framed under the guise of "helping the underprivileged," any level of TOS violation / scam is acceptable.

I still don't see how being the daughter of a woman worth more than $100m can ever come close to being "underprivileged".

 

[Box of Bunnies]

Why is this still up? Very disappointed in Kickstarter. Do their own rules not even matter or it's just up to their digression what gets in and out?

Not when they stand to pocket a tidy bit of change, no.

Eh. I guess I see a fundamental difference between a child attending a camp for a short time (what, a week?) and an adult going to college for four years. I don't think that the former is "tuition."

So then it's paying for a vacation instead, which is also against the rules.

 

[RicardoNeftali]

Now, one could argue that if a kickstarter has a large backing, it justifies it's own existence. The project should go forward because hey, obviously there's an audience for it. Of course, there's the concern that maybe the supporters don't know any better, and that they're being ripped off.

But in this case I don't think any of the supporters are sincerely expecting to get a decent game in return for their investments.

This is where it pushed my buttons, they aren't funding the product they're funding an idea. They are funding their valid and noble belief that sexism is an evil that should be fought. And this project does NOT in any way actually do that. Regardless of how she tries to adapt the narrative of her sons being angry she was paying for camp into that.

The overwhelming majority of her backers are showing support for the idea of women standing up for themselves against the evil of sexism. But that money will not in any way go towards that. It will go towards Susan, a lady who by previously attempting to piggy back off of Occupy, has shown she knows what she is doing, and that really this is more marketing than actually fighting for a cause.

As someone who also believes that fighting -isms are important it is painful to see someone getting money that other organization could so readily, and way more effectively, use. Her lack of transparency and her online background of shadyness and her shameless victimization of her daughter, and publicly shaming her sons, who at 14-16 really are old enough to have some ability to respond but have only been cast as villians and sexists for the entire internet, including I'm sure people in their schools too see. Is over the top.

*Edit
My anger at Kickstarter stems from their approval and allowance of someone to so clearly do everything I stated above. As a business its a questionable and reputation harming decision and the project is not a project at all. This is the very definition of open ended and "fund my life".

For the record she stated they said she couldn't make a good game, not that she couldn't make one at all. And that probably had more to do with her being 9 years old with no experience than with her being a girl. And for the record is true, she won't make a "good" game and nobody expects her too.

 

[Brad Grenz]

I just realized my favorite part, the claim that Kenzie is the only 9 year old in the world who can't find local friends that like videogames.

 

[Megalosaro]

For a nine year old girl, I guess it could be hard if she was a "hard core gamer" like she claims. Once she's in high school, every nerdy guy in the school will be crushing on her though

 

[Brak]

First Draft of my letter. Any comments are appreciated. I may have borked some of the links in transferring it over to GAF.

To whom it may concern,

I am writing in regards to Susan Wilson's project "9 Year Old Building an RPG to Prove Her Brothers Wrong!"(sic) 1 I have already reported this project, and clearly many others have also reported this project as violating several rules from your project guidelines. I was disappointed that there were no indications from your staff that these concerns were being addressed or even investigated. On Monday evening Eric Mack from Cnet published an article titled "Trolls take on 9-year-old girl's Kickstarter project...and lose"(sic) 2 , which contained a statement from a Kickstarter employee named Justin Kazmark. Justin is quoted as saying that "Kickstarter is a funding platform for creative projects. The goal of this project is to create a video game, which backers are offered for a $10 pledge. On Kickstarter backers ultimately decide the validity and worthiness of a project by whether they decide to fund it." I can only assume that this means that Kickstarter is not investigating this matter, and thus I feel it is necessary to fully outline my objections to this project and detail the potential negative consequences.

First, a brief overview of the nature of this project. This is a project created by Ms. Wilson for her daughter McKenzie (aged nine) to go to a summer camp where she will learn how to make a game using the RPG Maker development tool. RPG Maker is a very easy to use piece of software that requires little programming knowledge and comes with various assets and mechanics already pre-created for amateur game designers. This camp will apparently cost $829 and this is the amount of money that she has set as her project goal. The budget for the project would thus be earmarked entirely to cover the cost of the camp. Ms. Wilson states that further funds above $829 could go towards further weeks at camp and/or the purchase of a laptop. There is no indication as to the nature of the game whatsoever. In fact, the stated purpose of the project is to raise money to go to camp, and not to create a game: "I'm raising $829 to cover the cost of attending this RPG STEM Camp for kids 9-12 years old for a week." 1 The game is the primary reward for backers, however it is only the byproduct of attending camp and not the stated goal of the kickstarter.

Let us examine the ways in which Ms. Wilson's project violates Kickstarter's project guidelines. Kickstarter's eligibility requirements state that "Parents and teachers can launch projects in collaboration with children under 18 only if the adult . . . is in charge of running the project itself." 3
In Ms. Wilson's project description, which is incredibly vague as to the actual nature of the project, there is no mention of how Ms. Wilson will be involved with the project, let alone running it. It would appear that the entire burden of fulfilling the kickstarter would fall on her nine year old daughter. Which creates an awkward legal obligation on a nine year old girl considering Kickstarter's (correct) stance that creators must "fulfill all rewards of their project or refund any backer whose reward they do not or cannot fulfill. 4 Will Ms. Wilson make an RPG if her daughter discovers that she doesn't actually like programming or finds it too difficult? Is this something that Kickstarter should actually be involved with? If you feel that I am being unneccesarily pedantic, I would argue that you are setting dangerous precedents in this case.

The most dangerous precedent would be Kickstarter abandoning their prohibited uses clause from their project guidelines. As the stated goal of this kickstarter is to raise money to pay the tuition for a summer camp, this is a direct violation of kickstarter's prohibition on " 'fund my life' projects. Examples include projects to pay tuition or bills, go on vacation, or buy a new camera." 5 If you believe that the game created during the camp constitutes a sufficient project, then can a Digipen student create a Kickstarter project to cover his tuition where he will reward backers with a copy of his final student project? At what point does the rule cease to have any relevance or consistency in application? Ms. Wilson also violates the clause barring "charity or cause funding." such as "promoting the donation of funds raised." 5 Ms. Wilson did this explicitly in the seventh update to her project, which she has since edited. Frankly, I can't imagine any way that they could spend the excess money without it being a breach of the terms of service due to the fact that there is no project other than going to camp; excess money will either be spent on her daughter, herself, or given to charity.

Ms. Wilson further violated Kickstarter's community guidelines by spamming various celebrities, blogs, and websites about her project. Ms. Wilson's twitter account 6 fired off more than twenty unsolicited @-replies on twitter on March 20th in direct contravention to Kickstarter's rules regarding spam. 5 This seems especially egregious as the project had already surpassed its $829 goal at that point. While this would not be particularly problematic on its own, this is another straw added to this camel's strained and quivering back. So it is that Ms. Wilson's project breaks a multitude of kickstarter's own guidelines and terms of service. To say that this would warrant at least some investigation seems ludicrously obvious. But this is not even the end of the story.

In a vacuum, the project's deficiencies could be seen as simply the product of ignorance or misunderstanding, however the context of this project evokes a very clear sense that this is a scam looking to manipulate people and extract as much money as possible. First let's make it clear who exactly Ms. Wilson is. She is the founder and CEO of The Judgment Group and was named one of the ten most powerful women entrepreneurs in 2009 by CNN Money. 7 Prior to that she was the Executive Vice President of a firm that cybersquatted A on kinkos.com and eventually extracted $100,000,000 from Kinko's in a buyout. 8 She continues to use cybersquatting as a way to extort money from businesses and people as evidenced by a tweet from her @fundher account from March 16th which states: "Can u(sic) get Christian Grey info & help me sell fifty-shades.com, fiftyshades.me & fiftyshade.co URLs & split $.(sic)" 9 Why does Susan Wilson need $829 to send her daughter to camp? How can you possibly justify a $10,000 reward tier for a project that is requesting $829? Do I trust Susan Wilson to do the right thing with excess money raised by this campaign? Is Kickstarter.com willing to be an accomplice to a scam?

As if the financial vagaries of this project were not sufficiently slimy, this project also exploits and abuses children for profit. That a mother would publicly humiliate her sons in order to make a dollar is truly beyond the pale. For the $10,000 reward level, you will receive "a personal apology from her brothers." 1 What does this remotely have to do with the project and how is it appropriate to subject your sons to this humiliation? On the other end of the spectrum Ms. Wilson exploits the idea of her daughter fighting against some oppressive boogeyman, which she then embodies in her sons. Pitting her children against each other for her own gain.

So, the question might be at this point: "Why do you care so much? Why not let the girl go to camp and buy a laptop? I want to support a girl going to camp." My response to that would be that there is nothing wrong with MacKenzie going to RPG camp. She should go, and hopefully she continues to learn and grow as a developer. I wouldn't even necessarily be opposed to her seeking crowd-funding to pay for the camp (however distasteful it is for a woman who buys $1500 shoes to beg for $829 to send her daughter to camp.) However, Kickstarter is supposed to be a site for artists and creators to receive the funding they need to bring their art to life. It is not a charity website. Ms. Wilson's project could be on another site that allows charity fundraising.

Ultimately, this is a question about the integrity of Kickstarter.com and whether I can trust Kickstarter to even uphold their own rules, let alone manage more nuanced cases when something goes worng. And when it comes to crowdfunding there is nothing more important than trust. This is still the number one objection that I see from detractors of crowdfunding sites. How do I know what I'm going to get from this project? What happens when these guys can't deliver on their promises? Many people consider every single project on kickstarter to be a scam. If you are not willing to remove projects that clearly are scams, how can I trust that other projects are not scams? If Kickstarter is not actually doing any due diligence and is actually looking to profit from scams then I cannot abide this state of affairs. Despite having backed multiple projects and being a firm believer in the positive capability of crowdfunding, I will no longer support any projects on Kickstarter and I will be certain to inform anyone who asks me about Kickstarter to refrain from using your service as either a backer or a creator. I am greatly troubled by this, but I do not see any other recourse if Kickstarter is as ethically bankrupt as this situation has led me to believe.

That was cathartic.

 

[Fusebox]

*Slow clap*

 

[Megalosaro]

Very well thought out. Great work.

 

[The Illiterati]

So, I'm extremely poor, so whenever we all band together to make a fake kickstarter in protest, count me in.

Otherwise, I would've contributed to this one if the 10,000 dollar level also included a vial of delicious boy tears. Mmmmm boy tears.

 

[AliceAbstract]

Brak, very nice! I might remove the paragraph starting "In a vacuum" because that deviates from the point of the letter too much, which is about the rules and policies of Kickstarter.

I agree with your point there, but it might make your letter seem like a personal attack. While the information is sourced, it is information not given on the project page, when everything else in the letter is directly tied to the project or Kickstarter's rules.

EDIT: Actually, I really do like the beginning and end of that paragraph. Maybe there's a way to say that 'evidence of Susan Wilson's afluence, as well as her shady/legally dubious business practices have been made available online here, here and here'?

Also, in the second to last paragraph, I would change the sentence "I wouldn't even necessarily be opposed to her seeking crowd-funding to pay for the camp (however distatesful it is for a woman who buys $1500 shoes to beg for $829 to send her daughter to camp.) to just "I wouldn't even necessarily be opposed to her seeking donations to pay for the camp."

Again, it descends to what could be considered a personal attack, and because you specifically state crowd-funding, you begin to reintroduce the concept of using Kickstarter for this particular project. You could maybe replace it with a mention of IndieGoGo and that they have looser guidelines than Kickstarter?

I wonder if it wouldn't be relevant to bring up the fact that over 50% of the $829 fee are for the camp being overnight, when Kenzie's current age of 9 (you need to be 10 or older) mean she's ineligible for that? (Even if she has a birthday, I was under the impression that you needed to be of the proper age on the date you agree to something like that.)

 

[wenis]

I need a recap of this entire ordeal, but that was a great letter.

 

[Jac_Solar]

KickStarter are looking at the % ($) they're going to get from this, and placing that above their "reputation". Disgusting.

21k now, too. whatthefuckamireadingronaldmacdonald.jpg

Literally, someone could use KickStarter to get a 3-month vacation to Fiji using a sob story. Then while there, write a simple flash game/make a t-shirt/make a greeting card/anything, send it to the contributors, then boom it's not against the rules.

Like I said, as long as KS gets their kickback, they don't really care.

Reminds me of a post I made in the Anita Sarkeesian thread awhile ago;

Yeah, I agree.

However, it seems like a well known person *could* take advantage of that quite easily by setting a very low goal and making a spectacle out of it.

A celebrity could set a low, but interesting goal that wouldn't require much work, and make a decent amount of of "free money" due to the PR that is bound to appear around the project of a celebrity.

(I don't think that is the case in this instance.)

in response to;

Kickstarter projects are expected only to deliver what they promise upfront. There's no requirement that their initial goal be exactly what it will cost to do that (in fact, smart projects bake in a margin even for the initial request); nothing they raise above that is required to be rolled back into the project at all (and even stretch goals are unofficial and not required.)

It would be pretty fucktarded to demand that creators expand the scope of their project if they get over-funded. The actual backers are paying for a product with a defined scope, and shouldn't expect any more than the originally promised project plus stretch goals.

 

[foobarry81]

First Draft of my letter. Any comments are appreciated. I may have borked some of the links in transferring it over to GAF.

That was cathartic.

Great piece of work.

I like what this commentor on the KS page had to say about it. You could maybe add some stuff about the gender issues in the project to your letter:

I have a lengthy history of backing on Kickstarter, and like others I see this as questionable, not because Susan is wealthy, not because I believe she invented a family (I'm more than sure they exist), not because I don't support her daughters interest in making games, I do. Nor am I telling people what to do with their money. They can pull or invest as they see fit. My issues with this campaign are in several areas.

-Regardless of whether a game is the product, really this was created to fund the camp. Susan made that clear, she also made clear that once it took off, she made several moves (spamming twitter, adding tiers) to attract MORE donors, because she believed this was "bigger than them." I believe this is bigger than them as well and that brings me too my second concern.

-This entire idea was created by the apparent bullying of her older brothers, and according to Susan began because she was sending her daughter to camp ALREADY and they didn't appreciate it. According to her own writing they didn't even say she COULDN'T make a game, only that she couldn't make a good one. Which probably had more to do with her being nine years old with no game making experience, than with her being a girl. She then in some way connected that to sexism rather than a family matter. The public shaming of her kids, was unsavory, the truth is, and she knows this, that she manipulated that situation into a box that falsely pretends that somehow this project is a strike against sexism, it is not, in any way. Its a Kickstarter to send her daughter to camp. Beyond that she has already stated she has no clue what she will do with the extra, and for me that is troubling. When there are other organizations that are built for tackling this specific issue and could use this money far more effectively than someone who has stated shes over her head.

-As an uncle of three girls, all of color, I am more than familiar with the obstacles they face, and contribute in all ways possible to anything that can remotely make their future better, and more equal to their male counterparts. But this paired with her FundHer campaign that piggybacked on the Occupy movement shows me that she is well aware of the ability to tap into hot button issues for personal and private gain. The messaging was not a coincidence, it was a savvy marketing decision. These things however are less important to me than this.

-It is clear that Susan has rather openly skated past Kickstarter Terms of Service. In several areas in her main plea for money, and updates regarding a new laptop and clearly stating this was for camp numerous times. Too me that lowers the barrier of entry and sets a terrible precedent for the site. It detracts money from other projects and by tapping into outrage at sexism takes away money from actual organizations that are created and built for dealing with and attacking that extremely worthy cause. I have tried to find a way to define this project in a way that does not boil down to a "fund my life" project, in the end there was no way to reconcile that her own language clearly states the purpose was for that very goal. This project is also CLEARLY the definition of open ended. There is no plan, or art, or story that would be demanded from most any other project. Seemingly the updates seem to hint that she only began to tackle those things when she realized that simply paying for a camp was not allowed. As nothing in the main pitch outlines a plan or design.

-As I believe this project will not be pulled I strongly suggest that backers send their money here instead.
http://www.globalfundforwomen.org, I just did. I think honest dialogue is important, Susan has more than surpassed her goal, and has no plan in place for that extra money. Nor will she in any way be more suited to attack sexism, which I believe is the real driver here, than the organization I shared, or any other, that specializes in attacking that important issue. Ask yourself if your money is truly better served in the hands of Susan Wilson, who has already achieved her goal by a longshot, than one of these organizations.

-Lastly I believe at the very least Susan owes her backers full transparency. Every single dollar should be tracked and concrete evidence should be shown as to where it all goes, Double Fine for example has done an amazing job of that if you want an example you can follow. I want to believe you Susan, that this isn't a greed push, and I think others do too. If you truly want to clear your name in regards to this being a scam, you need to proactively push that transparency and leave no doubts as too where all your hardworking backers are truly sending their money.

And call off your friends, as someone who has simply observed this conversation throughout the weekend watching Julie out where people are from, their occupations, and telling people that she "knows their emails" while calling them names, has been severely off putting. As the only way she could have access is if your sharing that information. That is a violation of what I believe Kickstarter should be, and since Julie has nothing to do with this project other than being a backer, she really shouldn't be accessing backer emails.

 

[Brak]

Thanks for the responses. Gonna sleep on it and do a re-write in the morning.

 

[Jac_Solar]

Yeah, great post.

It also highlights how odd the whole project is, even as a scam. It almost seems like it could be an exercise in how to take advantage of crowd funding -- like she's going to write a book on it, or something -- "How a millionaire got 20,000$ from crowd funding"

 

[RicardoNeftali]

Great piece of work.

I like what this commentor on the KS page had to say about it. You could maybe add some stuff about the gender issues in the project to your letter:

That was me, and if you'd like to add more evidence of her cyber squatting its available. She had tweets from her account with the profile picture of her making it rain. I think that'd be helpful in showing its not just an isolated thing, but rather a business plan of hers and can't be discarded as her story that shes a fan of grays and "was going to do a fan thing". Otherwise I think its really well written and hope they give you the due respect of a response.

*Edit*

Does anybody know if money made in a Kickstarter is taxed by the government?

For example lets say the publicity generated and all the extra eyeballs means she can't pocket the funds and instead has to donate it. Can she then use that donation as a tax deduction thereby using money that wasn't taxed, donating it, and essentially making money by having to pay less in taxes for the year?

 

[Wrestlemania]

The saddest thing about all of this is that something which would encourage young girls to pursue an interest in making games would be a totally worthy and excellent cause I'd like to support.

I wish someone would start one up we could all support to show the backlash against this isn't all from the horrible Reddit men's rights idiots whining about misandry.

 

[Megalosaro]

Yeah, that is one of the things that is upsetting. Getting girls interested in game design and production is an excellent cause. The fact that this woman is taking advantage of such a hot button issue in the hobby right now is just so damn frustrating.

 

[Muku]

What... is this.. I don't even...

Where's the I don't want to live on this planet anymore picture? Ugh. Yeah, there might be a lot of scam type things on Kickstarter, but if any get picked apart as well as this one has, it needs to be addressed and handled. This just promotes bad behavior. I want a new laptop. Maybe I should go make one saying I need one. I'd need to come up with some sappy bullshit though.

That Cnet article... WOW! I read only a portion of it and just had to put that crap down. How unprofessional and horrible. People have legit concerns and they keep tossing around the term trolls. So now anyone with a valid complaint is trolling? How about they take 10 minutes aside and do some actual... *gasp* freaking investigation. Jesus.

Spoiler

To be fair, I don't have a whole lot of hope for journalists in general. Articles I've come across in the last year have been horrible.

I mean hell, the internet has already done most of the investigating over the weekend. They could look at pieces and parts and go from there.

Now, I won't say there are some folks who get too into this with potential death threats, or just threats of harm in general, but that doesn't represent the majority of folks that disagree with this. We don't even think Kenzie shouldn't go to camp. I just get irritated about how she keeps "proving" that KS approves it.

And read up on that Sullivan's Sluggers issue earlier. Holy crap, how'd I not hear about that sooner? No wonder folks keep mentioning that as a reason KS irks them. First major thing that bothered me with the PA one. Just I'd rather just deal with ads to a degree than money begging. It's no wonder so many folks are slowly losing hope in KS. I've always been wary, but this current one, has definitely made me glad I never signed up for an account. I'll never support anything through there now with this staying up. Just unacceptable. And I'd say this boy/girl/whatever getting sent to camp. This was handled just poorly.

For a nine year old girl, I guess it could be hard if she was a "hard core gamer" like she claims. Once she's in high school, every nerdy guy in the school will be crushing on her though

Or she could make friends of the opposite sex. Most of my friends in school were guys because I was really the only girl that was really into games. I guess it was good because it got rid of the "OH GOD BOYS HAVE COOTIES" stigma. I'm sure there are boys in her grade that like some of the games she does. Does her mom tell her not to make friends with boys or something?

 

[foobarry81]

The saddest thing about all of this is that something which would encourage young girls to pursue an interest in making games would be a totally worthy and excellent cause I'd like to support.

I wish someone would start one up we could all support to show the backlash against this isn't all from the horrible Reddit men's rights idiots whining about misandry.

But that is against the Kickstarter guidelines:

Prohibited uses:

No charity or cause funding.

Examples of prohibited use include raising money for the Red Cross, funding an awareness campaign, funding a scholarship, or promoting the donation of funds raised, or future profits, to a charity or cause.

So better do what Ricardo said instead:

As I believe this project will not be pulled I strongly suggest that backers send their money here instead.
http://www.globalfundforwomen.org, I just did. I think honest dialogue is important, Susan has more than surpassed her goal, and has no plan in place for that extra money. Nor will she in any way be more suited to attack sexism, which I believe is the real driver here, than the organization I shared, or any other, that specializes in attacking that important issue. Ask yourself if your money is truly better served in the hands of Susan Wilson, who has already achieved her goal by a longshot, than one of these organizations.

 

[soxinthebox]

First Draft of my letter. Any comments are appreciated. I may have borked some of the links in transferring it over to GAF.

That was cathartic.

forgot to sign it with your name

 

[Freshmaker]

Does anybody know if money made in a Kickstarter is taxed by the government?

Yeah.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/suwcharmananderson/2012/05/23/kickstarters-sting-in-the-tail-tax/

 

[moka]

forgot to sign it with your name

Why not sign off with:

Sincerely,
His name on behalf of NeoGaf.

Haha, that'd be cool.

Oh and @MoneyandCompany? Oh Lord.

Exactly. Why have just one sugar daddy like Donald Trump, when you can have 1000+ "daddies", who gives you money ... and you don't even have to give up any "sugga". Brilliant!

She's teaching her daughter the tricks of the trade.

Also, anyone else get the feeling that Polygon were going to publish that article but then they found out about all of this stuff and they simply don't want to report on it anymore? I highly doubt they are at this point.

 

[Picobrain]

Is there anything we can do to take this down?

 

[Megalosaro]

Everyone has already reported it. Kickstarter is apparently standing by it.

 

[moka]

Is there anything we can do to take this down?

This whole thread is about trying to take it down. You can help by checking the letter above and adding anything you think it would benefit from and also reporting the Kickstarter project.

Oh and, CNET's article is fucking disgusting. "Crave's Eric Mack investigates".

 

[Megalosaro]

On the bright side, it looks like it has lost a few donors. It's back below 21k again.

 

[Muku]

I just noticed they're below the 21k mark now. Makes me wonder how many folks did so to put their two cents in the comments, and whether any more folks are going to yank funding. I mean, I know some of them were defending their decision, but it's not too late to back out of a scam.

EDIT: Beaten, curses!

 

[RicardoNeftali]

The saddest thing about all of this is that something which would encourage young girls to pursue an interest in making games would be a totally worthy and excellent cause I'd like to support.

I wish someone would start one up we could all support to show the backlash against this isn't all from the horrible Reddit men's rights idiots whining about misandry.

I do too, as a person of color who grew up in a very lower middle class home technology was simply not a path I was really introduced to or made available to me. Nor was it taught in my public schools or even understood as a real career path in my community or by my peers, it was completely nonexistent. They were obviously consumers of the industry, but lessons in coding and what makes a computer or video game tick was just not presented or easily accessible. Money was an issue. I was privileged in that I had a Polish friend whose dad was actually a programmer and this was like 1993 when the field was young. So he would dissect things and talk programming with his young son and I'd absorb it. As I understand it that is how most famous developers were introduced to the field. By their fathers/family.

As an adult its easy to see that tech is the future. Yet those same communities don't really have access too the kind of money an RPG camp asks for. Never mind the ability to purchase the tools necessary to really dig into it and learn. And coming from a generation of parents who were never truly introduced to it they don't have adults fostering or cultivating the interest. Obviously this is an issue that is bigger than just women. Its an access issue.

For example its not that women aren't being hired on purpose and are getting turned away. It's that they aren't being brought into the world to even be in that pool. Just like most children of color who I was around growing up. It's access not necessarily oppression. I truly do not believe the industry is simply blackballing people. They just aren't doing a whole lot to provide that ground level access, and they can probably say that isn't really their job, and to a degree they are right, but I do believe more access and more people with different life experiences lead to better games and different ideas that can help mature the industry and profits.

So I would WHOLEHEARTEDLY love something that did this, and that truly provided and cultivated children of all colors and sexes and allowed them to dream about and know that those fields exist and are attainable if that's what they love.

Again I don't support women hating, and I do see some disturbingly immature presentations of women in certain video games, over sexualization helplessness etc. and I completely understand where women take issue with that, or with the whole women on covers don't sell thing that developers are facing from publishers. When they send death threats or sexist comments, it derails valid criticisms, like its doing with this Kickstarter, and makes it incredibly easy to dismiss the whole uproar the way they have been trying to do. Which is made more infuriating because I haven't seen a sexist comment on that Kickstarter comment board.

At the end of the day this project doesn't address ANY of that, the buzz will not reach those neighborhoods or children (for example my sister and nieces will not hear or be inspired by this) and the mother is clearly someone who was providing this access from the get go. She had already researched and paid for this camp. Its not even helping HER access the field, since she was already fully able and knowledgeable to it. The fact that she may very well take the excess and line her pockets is just icing on the cake.

Moral of the story is I agree with you, I wish someone would create an organization that worked on this, or if one exists that it get the publicity and backing it truly deserves.

 

[wiggleb0t]

So, I'm extremely poor, so whenever we all band together to make a fake kickstarter in protest, count me in.

Otherwise, I would've contributed to this one if the 10,000 dollar level also included a vial of delicious boy tears. Mmmmm boy tears.

? Kind of unusual ? :-s

 

[Mononoke]

This whole thing really depresses me.

 

[moka]

I do too, as a person of color who grew up in a very lower middle class home technology was simply not a path I was really introduced to or made available to me. Nor was it taught in my public schools or even understood as a real career path in my community or by my peers, it was completely nonexistent. They were obviously consumers of the industry, but lessons in coding and what makes a computer or video game tick was just not presented or easily accessible. Money was an issue. I was privileged in that I had a Polish friend whose dad was actually a programmer and this was like 1993 when the field was young. So he would dissect things and talk programming with his young son and I'd absorb it. As I understand it that is how most famous developers were introduced to the field. By their fathers/family.

As an adult its easy to see that tech is the future. Yet those same communities don't really have access too the kind of money an RPG camp asks for. Never mind the ability to purchase the tools necessary to really dig into it and learn. And coming from a generation of parents who were never truly introduced to it they don't have adults fostering or cultivating the interest. Obviously this is an issue that is bigger than just women. Its an access issue.

For example its not that women aren't being hired on purpose and are getting turned away. It's that they aren't being brought into the world to even be in that pool. Just like most children of color who I was around growing up. It's access not necessarily oppression. I truly do not believe the industry is simply blackballing people. They just aren't doing a whole lot to provide that ground level access, and they can probably say that isn't really their job, and to a degree they are right, but I do believe more access and more people with different life experiences lead to better games and different ideas that can help mature the industry and profits.

So I would WHOLEHEARTEDLY love something that did this, and that truly provided and cultivated children of all colors and sexes and allowed them to dream about and know that those fields exist and are attainable if that's what they love.

Again I don't support women hating, and I do see some disturbingly immature presentations of women in certain video games, over sexualization helplessness etc. and I completely understand where women take issue with that, or with the whole women on covers don't sell thing that developers are facing from publishers. When they send death threats or sexist comments, it derails valid criticisms, like its doing with this Kickstarter, and makes it incredibly easy to dismiss the whole uproar the way they have been trying to do. Which is made more infuriating because I haven't seen a sexist comment on that Kickstarter comment board.

At the end of the day this project doesn't address ANY of that, the buzz will not reach those neighborhoods or children (for example my sister and nieces will not hear or be inspired by this) and the mother is clearly someone who was providing this access from the get go. She had already researched and paid for this camp. Its not even helping HER access the field, since she was already fully able and knowledgeable to it. The fact that she may very well take the excess and line her pockets is just icing on the cake.

Moral of the story is I agree with you, I wish someone would create an organization that worked on this, or if one exists that it get the publicity and backing it truly deserves.

I agree, anyone who wants to help women but doesn't want to donate to this witch is free to send their money, as suggest to http://www.globalfundforwomen.org. They're an actual legit organisation who don't exploit children to get money. By donating to them, you know that you're doing some good.

 

[RobbieH]

Oh and, CNET's article is fucking disgusting. "Crave's Eric Mack investigates".

Fucking hell. The things that pass for "journalism" these days.

 

[moka]

Fucking hell. The things that pass for "journalism" these days.

My guess is that behind the scenes, Mrs. Wilson is sending some emails and messages to some of her high-ranking friends in the news and media to try and spin this story before it reaches them through other channels.

Man, this is depressing. We've failed, ladies and gentlemen.

 

[Muku]

Well, if nothing else this has given enough buzz about it. I've never gone to Kickstarter and just looked around. For some reason, being frustrated with this thing, I decided to. Looking under Games and under Most Popular is this freaking Kickstarter next to Big Blue. Ugh.

 

[Kinyou]

Fucking hell. The things that pass for "journalism" these days.

It's amazing how he adresses none of the issues and just labels everyone as troll.

 

[Wrestlemania]

But that is against the Kickstarter guidelines:



So better do what Ricardo said instead:

I'm not suggesting something for Kickstarter. Just something specific to encouraging girls to follow an interest in game development.
Fund for Women looks great, but it's more general.

 

[gofreak]

The KS stance on this opens a whole can of worms for their reputation, unless they change their terms and level the playing field for everyone. But it's their reputation.

All I'd say for Wilson is that she should be embarrassed at the very least. I know if I were wealthy and I was picking up money from strangers for my kids' education and activities, I'd be mortified. But something tells me her conscience has been rather numbed down when it comes to money (I believe she's admitted as much herself). Let's see if she tries to redeem something for herself out of this and puts the money to good use for kids who don't have the means to do this stuff.

 

[Yagharek]

So I'm guessing no games media sites will mention this, and kickstarter's growing reputation will continue unabated despite their obvious corruption?