PdotMichael
Banned
Not gonna happen if better city planning and public transportation don't make cars in a large scale obsolete anyway.
Self driving cars themselves will do nothing or even provide an opposite effect.
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NASA: Earth warming at unprecedented pace, unlikely to stay in Paris T° range
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Not gonna happen if better city planning and public transportation don't make cars in a large scale obsolete anyway.
Self driving cars themselves will do nothing or even provide an opposite effect.
maniac-kun
Member
NYCmetsfan
Banned
First of all TPP isn't happening now and would never shut China out. secondly, they have a domestic solar industry and thirdly, solar will be cheaper than coal so why wouldn't they use that even with your inaccurate hypothetical.
I like to criticize china for a lot of things but a lot of the bashing of them and india seems to ignore that they'll likely face far greater consequences than most western countries and have a huge impetus to do something and are doing something.
PdotMichael
Banned
One could save a lot of energy for heating and cooling just with better bulging standards.
AstroNut325
Member
We don't know if that will remain. You're making some very large assumptions in regards to tech, trends and overall path towards sustainability. Even that very chart you are quoting has China showing other years of emissions decline only to follow up with significant increases in the following years.
Things are not looking as good as you make it seem. At least, not yet.
DeviantBoi
Member
I've had this fantasy of a huge monument (like on the side of a mountain or something that big) with the names of all the climate deniers in government or the CEOs of oil companies.
It would be a monument that would last for centuries and it would shame them and their family for generations.
It would be a monument that would last for centuries and it would shame them and their family for generations.
I'm not even sure how one could possibly come to that conclusion. Within 3-5 years though, it looks like a lot is going to start rolling.
People also like to argue that EVs / autonomous driving cars are not going to see a very fast adoption rate because people are not likely to replace their current cars very quickly. And a lot of people only buy used cars due to budget constraints etc.
However, autonomous driving could introduce a paradigm shift in certain demographics and renting car time / car sharing will become more popular. Uber seems to be going in this direction and other companies also seem to be putting stock in this concept. If car sharing / rental takes off in a big way Ev cars and autonomous driving technology could see faster spread than some people are expecting.
NYCmetsfan
Banned
Self driving cars will in essence be public transportation
Hopefully the TPP does downsize China, it's great that they're making more nuclear and solar but damn do they need to. Someone's gotta lead the way.
PdotMichael
Banned
That's the bad end scenario.
TheLostBigBoss
Banned
It's been three years of China having either no growth in coal use, or a decrease in coal use and production.
You can go read about it, articles from this past June/July, from last year, from 2014, all talking about what this means, and the most recent articles are stating that this is a permanent trend due to the growth of renewables, their need to tackle air pollution and their economy no longer growing at the break neck pace of the last 15 years.
PdotMichael
Banned
That's quite disgusting saying that basically 1/6 of the world population doesn't deserve the same standard of living as the western world.
Western world? It props up their neighbors and hopefully China follows suit. If anything it downgrades western QoL due to outsourcing and being corporate friendly. TPP is disgusting though, thanks Obama and Co
KurtSloane
Banned
If that happens then we are all fucked, rather quickly.
KurtSloane
Banned
Hey, let them burn coal ..... why not, they might not be around to enjoy that standard of living you talk about.
PdotMichael
Banned
Now, you don't even make a little bit sense now.
Self driving car technology creates opportunities for a new market.
That's why General Motors invested $500 million in Lyft, a ride hailing company.
PdotMichael
Banned
China is the largest investor of renewable energy and tech leader and also the only nation with a significant nuclear energy programme.
That's some stupid nonsense, especially if the grow if CO2 output is basically outsourcing of American and European industry.
yanipheonu
Member
At this point, I find it's pretty clear the politicians don't have the ability to solve the problem.
I'm placing my hopes of scientists maybe finding a solution that works. Not ideal, but none of this is...
TPP helps China's regional neighbors, which China has a ton of leverage over. West has been outsourcing their jobs for globalization. Where's the confusion?
LegendofJoe
Member
If I had the ability to buy a self-driving car my family would only need one, instead of the two we require now. I know we're not alone. Calling up Uber/Lyft with no driver to support will be cheap as well. A lot more people will be able to get by with a single car or no car at all.
Brawndo Addict
Banned
Can we start shooting sulfur or reflective nano-particles into the atmosphere yet? Seems like everybody finally agrees the problem is too dire to resolve on our current trajectory.
Inquisitive_Ghost
Member
First of all, I was under the impression that some of the more dire predictions do have shit hitting the fan within my lifetime.
Secondly, it's a philosophical/existential thing. This is the only planet we can be completely sure has life and consciousness on it. To know there is a real chance of the only confirmed awareness in the universe collapsing on a grand scale due to something as frustratingly stupid as us being too stubborn to move with haste is existentially crippling to me. Yes, life on Earth will persist even in the absolute worst possible case, but most of it, including us, won't.
We are in crisis, and it's a difficult thing to think about. I try to think of how amazing the explosions in renewable tech are, beyond all predictions, and how EVs are expected to take off within a few years as battery costs come down, and how the Paris deal was a landmark achievement, but I'm a worrier by nature, and it's difficult to be optimistic in light of a crisis, because you can't truly know how it'll all shake out until it happens.
Excellent point.
ArchedThunder
Banned
Mankind's greatest achievement will be turning Earth into a second Venus.
TheLostBigBoss
Banned
Nobody agrees with what you just said
And studied have been done on geo-engenering with brute force like this, that method could easily cause mega-droughts (iirc) and long range of consequences of the unknown.
It is in many places around the world and will be on a global scale in less than a decade.
Muppet of a Man
Member
The US (and historically Europe) is a great place. If it's not plundering, exploiting, and destroying the people and environment of a less developed county, it's pilaging our own yet-to-be-born children and grandchildren.
killer rin
Member
Welp, we had a good run. GG Everyone, GG
Brawndo Addict
Banned
As opposed to the mega-droughts and long range consequences of global warming? I'm also not sure where the all the optimistic scientists/predictions are about how our current trajectory will prevent temperature warming beyond 1.5/2.0 degrees Celsius. Even if we literally had zero emissions tomorrow, we could still have enough carbon in the atmosphere to reach 2.0+ if certain feedback/runaway triggers occur. Solar radiation management is a necessary tool to help delay the impacts (specifically the unknown trigger points for the worst feedback/runaway loops) until we successfully transition over the next half-century.
PdotMichael
Banned
The amount of empty drives is what kills self driving cars as large scale solution how to handle public transportation in the future.
It's of couse something the car industry is pushing because it's the most the effective way of saving the status quo.
RumblingRosco
Member
Never much cared for humans anyway.
Muppet of a Man
Member
This just goes to show that unrestricted/unfettered capitalism is not a good long-term system. There needs to be top down coordination and implementation of fundamental infrastructure, including the power grid, as well as livestock husbandry oversight.
This shit will never change otherwise due to human nature's innate survival instinct to hoard and be greedy, even in times of abundance.
This shit will never change otherwise due to human nature's innate survival instinct to hoard and be greedy, even in times of abundance.
TheLostBigBoss
Banned
The earth has been warmer in the past without instantaneous methane release from hydrates.
Last major study on the subject I read on and saw was from 2014 that largely said that if there is going to be arctic release of methane in the from of hydrates and permafrost, it's going to be a gradual slow release, not an instantaneous explosion.
There was even an AMA months back with a climatologist talking about Paris and other subjects, and of course someone brought the hydrate theory up because it's a really hot topic with the doom and gloom crowd of climate change people. The person said that he wouldn't be concerned with it in the short term (think within this century), but however he is far more interested in permafrost thaw, which is actually happening and will continue to happen.
Because the idea is, if we prevent ourselves from crossing 2.0C, natural factors and feedback loops will still continue. So even if we prevent ourselves from crossing it in 2080 and stay at 1.8C or something, by 2030 permafrost could had .2C to our running total.
But that's another story and topic.
Basically, don't really worry about the entire hydrate and methane stuff, because if we're at the point where we are at great risk of a major release, we've clearly done nothing to prevent it in the previous half century or so, which at that point the world would be on RCP 8.5 trends and it's already pretty much gone.
Uhh, if he halted all emission tomorrow we would definitely not hit 2.0C this century. You may be confusing the subject of negative emissions and studies saying that even with major reductions in emissions we would need some portion of carbon sequestration to prevent 2.0C, unless I missed something recently.
FunkyMunkey
Banned
i honestly believe the only solution to this problem, after you factor in human behavior, is global geoengineering using cheaper forms of energy like solar panels and such along with new tech. the math and chemistry is there but it requires lots of energy that you ironically need to pollute the environment more to make. master clean high yield energy storage and production and high tech climate engineering and utilize those to alter our trajectory.
i really think that's the only way. and our species is going to get to a path that splits very very soon (no we aren't impossibly fucked already like some are saying in this thread) and hopefully we save ourselves with ingenuity
ps i'm a scientist so i prefer to look at this from fixable sense and not nihilistic. it's not over until it's literally over
i really think that's the only way. and our species is going to get to a path that splits very very soon (no we aren't impossibly fucked already like some are saying in this thread) and hopefully we save ourselves with ingenuity
ps i'm a scientist so i prefer to look at this from fixable sense and not nihilistic. it's not over until it's literally over
Obliterator
Member
We really do need lab grown meat as soon as possible. Obviously there are tons of factors leading to increased temperatures but livestock are a huge cause.
Either way we are fucked unless some drastic changes are made quickly in the next decade.
Either way we are fucked unless some drastic changes are made quickly in the next decade.
Greed will keep putting in roadblocks.
I really want to be optimistic, but rich and powerful people don't care.
perfectchaos007
Member
It's too late now to stop it.
China knows this.
This is what I don't get. people in this thread have said China is doing a better job at curtailing CO2 emissions than the US, but this graph seems to show otherwise.
Per-capita is where US looks like spoiled suburbia. But yea in total China is leading the way in a lot of problematic categories specifically population and pollution. Wouldn't be too surprised to see a one-car home policy but they are building a lot of solar/nuclear
Ether_Snake
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Self driving cars inherently reduce the number of cars on the road because they make car ownership financially unsustainable.
TheLostBigBoss
Banned
what does that even mean.
it's economics, it will be cheaper, conventional energy can't magically make how technology operates and grows suddenly irrelevant. Solar + Wind + Storage follow learning curves, they will inherently get cheaper as scale increases, you can't just ignore that.
In 2015 the US installed 70% of it's new capacity from wind+solar.
AstroNut325
Member
You need to look at the bigger picture:
Source:
http://edgar.jrc.ec.europa.eu/news_...in-global-co2-emissions-2015-report-98184.pdf
Edit:
Quit simply passing the blame to rich people. You made and are continuing to make decisions and live a lifestyle that is counterproductive towards dealing with climate change. Accept that first before you pass the blame. There's a lot of things we can be doing already in our personal lives to reduce our carbon footprint.
But the general reaction is...
Nah brah... I need my AC.
Nah brah, I gotta drive a big truck.
Nah brah... I can't use the public transit system even just once or twice a week.
Nah brah, I gotta go on a long road trip once or twice a year so I can't be bothered with replacing my second car with an EV.
And the list goes on and on.l
There will be a point in time when more money will be made from renewable/clean energy technology than something else. So the allegedly greedy big companies have no choice but to retool or get buried by the new kids on the block
FalsettoVibe
Member
So messed up.
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