Lol thats not going to be solved with more processing power.
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Naughty Dog: move to next-gen is "terrifying"
- Thread starter marc^o^
- Start date
Lol thats not going to be solved with more processing power.
brandonh83
Banned
Seriously, this so much it's not even funny. Good post.
I won't claim that there aren't some who are "satisfied with current-gen", but most of us naysayers are doing so because the industry appears headed for another crash if it attempts to carry its current business model into the next generation. That model isn't sustainable as is, let alone with the higher budgets associated with new hardware.
flintstryker
Banned
holy fucking shit I have been saying the same thing for years now enough of making pretty environments where the interaction is mostly shit.
Raitosaito
Member
What if the game industry completely stop being innovative due to ballooning development cost, and there is only like 4 studios due to bankruptcy? Then the only place we can get new and unique ideas is on the indie platform or PC.
I don't think that's so much the concern of Naughty Dog, though. I'm sure there are many devs hoping that the next round of systems bring with it fewer gotchas for multiplatform projects - but a first party dev who can buckle down on one system, design for its strengths, and not worry about fitting things developed elsewhere to that box?
Tech and tools, absolutely, but I think at a different level than seemed to be being referred to earlier. I don't think they're concerned about getting 'a bad box' they can't work with reasonably, I think they're more concerned about what they're going to do with all that power to produce something that makes people go 'wow' - what techniques they'll focus their r&d on, what bets to make in that respect, how to do meet their own targets and expectations within a budget etc. etc. I think they're taking it for granted they'll get a hefty bit of power they can work with, I think the scarier bit for them is delivering on what that hardware could do. Maybe we're talking past each other but that's the vibe I get.
It'd probably be easier to swallow "survival of the fittest" too if it were more about weeding out bad games than unpopular genres/styles... while we still get plenty of weak games in genres that are VERY popular.
Admittedly I have to wonder: could it be that the 360/PS3 represented an abnormally large hump to get over for development, and that the next generation could be much smoother/not much more expensive in contrast? It does seem like Microsoft and Sony pushed for a fairly large jump over the PS2 hardware, and neither sound like they want to make that kind of leap again. That'd be more ideal, because it means current development can continue to be more streamlined whereas others who are struggling can finally come into their own.
Though another problem is the economy. Launching a new console as the economy becomes healthy again WOULD be more ideal than while it's still crap. Too bad it never seems like it'll stop being crap. :/
Admittedly I have to wonder: could it be that the 360/PS3 represented an abnormally large hump to get over for development, and that the next generation could be much smoother/not much more expensive in contrast? It does seem like Microsoft and Sony pushed for a fairly large jump over the PS2 hardware, and neither sound like they want to make that kind of leap again. That'd be more ideal, because it means current development can continue to be more streamlined whereas others who are struggling can finally come into their own.
Though another problem is the economy. Launching a new console as the economy becomes healthy again WOULD be more ideal than while it's still crap. Too bad it never seems like it'll stop being crap. :/
I've said on here many times already, that I'd be MORE than happy with this gens visuals running in 1080p, a constant v-synced 60fps with full AA.
It would actually almost look like a generational leap with that clean up alone. Let alone utilising that extra power for better animation, AI, physics etc. It would look like a generational leap without having to be one, which means cost stays down (if anything, drops due to hardware familiarity) on both the console and the development of games.
It's a win for all involved in that scenario.
Sho_Nuff82
Member
Your generational leap will be 1080p, 60 fps, proper AA, and maybe some tessellation sprinkled in. More NPCs/enemies on screen at once and higher player counts in multiplayer.
This is the reality for everyone who isn't EA, Activision, Ubisoft, Take Two, Bethesda/Zenimax, and select teams at MS and Sony.
There isn't a lot of room for devs in the $60-$100 million dollar game budget arena. All 3 hardware makers are probably working extra hard to make sure that none of them repeat a "PS3" scenario for development environment.
This is the reality for everyone who isn't EA, Activision, Ubisoft, Take Two, Bethesda/Zenimax, and select teams at MS and Sony.
There isn't a lot of room for devs in the $60-$100 million dollar game budget arena. All 3 hardware makers are probably working extra hard to make sure that none of them repeat a "PS3" scenario for development environment.
Naughty Dog to develop for Wii-U confirmed?
Sapphire Dreams
Member
I am for one, can't wait to see what they cook up next gen, even it was a 2D arty platformer, I'd still buy it.
You do know the effect just like a camera is to focus on the young girl?
When you're doing this on current gen hardware
The expectations for your next-gen game is going to be out of this world.
A cut scene. I'm sure the actual in-game play will be good but let's not pretend it's all going to look like or anywhere close.
RPGCrazied
Member
Then don't. I know I can't afford these next gen systems, and hoping PS3 stays around for a few more years.
-Pyromaniac-
Member
lol why do people keep mentioning the bold, like seriously. It just won't happen even if the internals are WTFOMGWTFF
gutter_trash
Banned
1st reply nails it
Sho_Nuff82
Member
It certainly won't be standard, but it will definitely be more common. 60FPS is already the standard for most sports, fighting, and racing games. Why not other genres?
No worries. Everyone will come to their senses when next gen is around the corner.
I'm fine with current gen now, but if could glimpse the future and see what's coming I suspect I wouldn't be fine anymore.
-Pyromaniac-
Member
so if you claim it's already mostly standard, then why bother putting it on a list of things that would constitute a leap. It won't ever be prominently standard in all types of games because devs will keep pushing graphical limits.
TheChewyWaffles
Member
Hyperbole and crap. PC gaming has been "next-gen" for a long time as far as assets and resolution go. I don't see Valve and Blizzard shitting themselves. Man up Naughty Dog.
THE:MILKMAN
Member
Call me cynical but I can't help thinking this is a PR interview by ND on behalf of Sony to encourage consumers to buy a PS3 today.
I can't see that their next game is "up in the air", whether on the PS3 or PS4 to be honest. I think whatever game is next for them is already prototyped and ready for full production.
If they truly haven't started at all on their next game, it won't see the light of day till at least late 2014............
I can never understand why devs do interviews like this. Makes no sense to me....
Edit: Just to be clear, I'm talking about team "Uncharted".
I can't see that their next game is "up in the air", whether on the PS3 or PS4 to be honest. I think whatever game is next for them is already prototyped and ready for full production.
If they truly haven't started at all on their next game, it won't see the light of day till at least late 2014............
I can never understand why devs do interviews like this. Makes no sense to me....
Edit: Just to be clear, I'm talking about team "Uncharted".
Only because Naughty Dog is 'scared' apparently.
Before that, we were pining for them.
Where are you from, Mars? Keep up for God's sake.
They are not quite there yet IMO. I appreciate the improved graphics/IQ/frame rate, but not to the point of not feeling fine with current gen consoles.
.GqueB. said:
I completely agree. The reason Uncharted (and to a lesser degree Killzone) looks so much better than other console games is because they have one of the best animation systems out there. So much emphasis has been put on the visual side of games that so many other aspects (audio, animations, mechanics, and writing) all got left in the dust throughout this generation. Like others, I would love to see games with similar visuals next gen with 1080p, 60fps, and a much larger emphasis on animation, physics, interaction, and audio than before.
As for the OP, I can see where ND is coming from. The gaming community expects so much out of them now that they know they need to wow gamers out of the gate next gen. It must be a bit easier now that they have 2 dev teams. The Uncharted team can work on the PS4 tech while the TLOU team works on their current title.
Really bad examples.
Epic aren't shitting themselves either.
They're borderline already showing us what to expect.
As I mentioned earlier, this is Naughty Dog saying what they have to say at this point in the situation they're in.
Phonomezer
Banned
Seriously in awe of all the 'next gen can wait' posts.
Jason's Ultimatum
Member
Max Payne 3 is already doing this, and it's the best I've seen this generation.
PC has barely scraped next gen on occasion the vast vast majority of the stuff is the exact same as console, the few games that have looked a bit better are often piles of shit in terms of gameplay.
Blizzard are happy enough to sit on a massive pile of money funded by addicts of a horribly out of date game while valve have only released 1 full game in the past almost 5 years on a engine that was in the past used to power sputnik. Neither company has to worry about anything while they are funded by rabbid fanboys who worship the very ground that they never actually release anything on.
Me too, I wanted next gen a year ago.
I have a serious question to any devs or anyone who would know really. Wouldn't it be EASIER to make games for next-gen? I obviously have no experience making games, but in my mind I would think having to optimize your game less for more powerful hardware would be liberating, not scary.
I mean I do understand how a lot of developers struggled with PS3 hardware because of the way it was designed, but in principle...shouldn't it be easier to make games on the next consoles?
I mean I do understand how a lot of developers struggled with PS3 hardware because of the way it was designed, but in principle...shouldn't it be easier to make games on the next consoles?
PeakPointMatrix
Member
Umm..
THE:MILKMAN
Member
I would think for devs like ND, that make their own engines, it's undoubtedly a scary thing, but for a lot of third-party devs, the engine next gen will still be Unreal Engine 3. And for some others it will be CryEngine 3, and even EA's devs will be using Frostbite 2. Thus, they will be working with the same foundation, but with way more power. Won't this be advantageous compared to past generational transitions?
Do game budgets go up or down each generation? If things got easier, shouldn't they be cheaper to make than ever?
I get your point, but I can't tell you how many times I've heard developers make the comment "It's just incredible the amount of things we're capable of doing now that we could never do before" etc etc, and my point was kind of their technical limitations are slowly going away.
I do understand how scale of a project can affect staffing and manhours.
For about the first year with next gen it's going to be mostly upscaled ports with minor improvements with only a few games looking much better.
3rd party are just going to port shit anyways, the guys that are screwed to work hard are the 1st/2nd party guys who are going to have to make the show piece games for wiiu/xbox3/ps4.
Me too.
3rd party are just going to port shit anyways, the guys that are screwed to work hard are the 1st/2nd party guys who are going to have to make the show piece games for wiiu/xbox3/ps4.
Me too.
Haunted
Member
But they're not lying, that's the whole point.
The increase in capability outmatches the budget increase somewhat I imagine, but its still a big, scary increase. If you spend $20 million on a game (which isn't a crazy budget, though above average for a next-gen title) and it bombas at retail...your studio is done. During the PS1 days, budgets for everything but the biggest titles were minuscule compared to today and a failure could be padded by like a dozen other releases. Someone posted Square's output in the 90's and early 00's compared to today and it was like a crazy long list.
The In - Game character model generally look great and almost close to cutscenes.
graphics are good enough
Slurpy2k20
Member
I wouldn't mind the best of current generation graphics (ie. UC3, etc) rendered at 1080P, 60 FPS, forever. That's what the next gen should do with ease.
Uno Venova
Banned
I ready for the next gen just because I'm getting worn out of the same IPs. The Last of us is the first game in a while to get me really excited, ND being behind it is a big part of it but knowing nothing about it and getting little bits of info leading up to the release is exciting. With all the other games coming out I know more or less what to expect.
Now if a new gen starts the whole lineup's will be filled with new IP's (I hope.)
Now if a new gen starts the whole lineup's will be filled with new IP's (I hope.)