pretty done
Member
I'd like to see Naughty Dog explain why there's no 1080p60fps games on PS4 that aren't indie or PS3 ports.
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Naughty Dog: PS4 has 5 GB RAM/6 CPU cores available to devs, talks using them
- Thread starter Wishmaster92
- Start date
I'd like to see Naughty Dog explain why there's no 1080p60fps games on PS4 that aren't indie or PS3 ports.
NBA 2k14 just off the top of my head, and no it isn't a ps3 port.
Same, more games should do that.
Pjsprojects
Member
I'm starting to get that feeling, sold PS4 BF4 last night because BF3 PC seemed to play better and BF4 PC is only £10.
Exclusives need to save the PS4 for me.
New platform. Devs preferring prettier over 1080p60. Crossplatform.
You seem to be new to console gaming, most devs that work on consoles target 30fps. It wouldn't matter if there was a Titan in the PS4 the majority of games would still be 30fps, also the PS3 runs some games 1080p60 do you really think the PS4 couldn't match that?
travisbickle
Member
Well, they said:
GPU is more than capable of 1080/60, plus parallel processing can provide extra power for physics, cloth simulation, fluids and more.
So it's down to developer priorities and use of parallel processing.
...you were serious?
Developers sacrifice resolution/framerate for better visuals. It's a design decision.
That ram is probably used for streaming and recording, the PS4 does this without any performance hit and interfearing with the games so it's probably included in those 3 gb.
It's true that Windows uses less ram in an idle state but a PC OS can alocate more Ram as needee while a console needs a fixed amount as to not impact games performance. Comparing both OSes is a mute point, it's not the same.
3 gb seems like a safe amount to have fixed for OS uses.
It's true that Windows uses less ram in an idle state but a PC OS can alocate more Ram as needee while a console needs a fixed amount as to not impact games performance. Comparing both OSes is a mute point, it's not the same.
3 gb seems like a safe amount to have fixed for OS uses.
5GB is an awesome lot. PC games start to use more but thats because some people play at insane resolutions where insane texture resolutions make a difference.
at 1080p 5GB should be enough for quite some nice textures that take the 1080p "limitiation" into account.
Altough this becomes less important, I always liked consoles because the first/second party offerings always found an excellent balance between poly count and texture size at the resolutions they supported.
at 1080p 5GB should be enough for quite some nice textures that take the 1080p "limitiation" into account.
Altough this becomes less important, I always liked consoles because the first/second party offerings always found an excellent balance between poly count and texture size at the resolutions they supported.
iamvin22
Industry Verified
Absolutely. There's no way the current OS needs more than 2gb. Possibly not even more than 1gb. So there'll definitely be plenty of dormant ram as things stand, yes.
Which might seem like a waste to have up to 2gb doing nothing but, as needs to be understood, once they commit to allocating to games then they can never have it back. Keeping it in reserve whilst games don't really need it until they figure out exacty what features the OS needs to stay future proof is the right thing to do.
Basileus777
Member
Most PS4 games are crossgen games designed for old hardware.
Turin Turambar
Member
Do you know that games need also system RAM apart from video RAM??
Miles Quaritch
Member
Don't forget Instant Resume.
RAM allocation has nothing to do with 1080p60.
5GB is a lot, and could possibly get expansion after a few years.
Original OS would have taken 0.5-1GB. New OS has a lot of memory left for future uses, just in case Sony needs it. For example, now they can have enough space for PSCamera to process the 3D possition of VR headset.
no FF quality yet
Each character's base body model was built from more than 100,000 polygons plus more than 300,000 for clothing alone. Each character's model bears 60,000 hairs, each of which were separately and fully animated and rendered
"Hero" characters today go between 100k [Order 1886] and 1 million polygons [The Dark Sorcerer] on PS4.
As for hair, that is really computation heavy.What's your point? PS4/Xbone versions of games look and run better than their 7th gen counterparts and visuals always improve dramatically as a generation progresses. Most of the games we have now were rushed out and/or developed on non-final SDKs/hardware.
Also This:
jimbobsmells
Member
Developers need to start thinking about utilising GPGPU more.
Rogue_Ledr
Banned
Nice to see these guys have a better handle on the hardware than some people.
But that's more of a CPU intensive (if at all) tasks, it hardly needs much RAM.
I hope it is political (to avoid code bloat?) and they will increase amount of ram available to games later on.
TechnicPuppet
Nothing! I said nothing!
It can do it and it will when required. I don't get how this says it can't do 1080p60fps,
Alot of it is probably there as a fallback in case they want to add more features. They'll likely decrease this number over the lifetime of the system to improve resources for games.
It is actually kind of a good thing that it is pretty high, because that allows the OS devs more room for experimentation. They can always lower it later, but after it has been lowered it can never be raised back up or some games wont actually work on the system anymore, and that is a big nono.
The original plans for a 4gb ps4 was probably markedly different from the now 8gb ps4, but software plans are much easier to change than hardware plans and to be honest, the plans probably don't have to change much if you are getting an increase in hardware capability. Or at least you dont have to think about cutting back features, but more about what features to add.
Well this is pretty much a given. If you go beyond the power of a system with assets and post processing that sufficiently tax the system, you wont be able to output a game at 1080p60fps on said system. If I have a dual titan setup and there is a game that taxes it enough, it wont be able to reach 1080p60fps either. You always have to balance performance and the bells and whistles that are present in a game.
I wonder if the original 4GB PS4 is partly a reason we don't have DLNA etc yet? Maybe they just had to make the OS as streamlined and simple as possible to still leave enough memory for games at that time? (along with the usual 'just get the thing out of the door' pressures)
PHOENIXZERO
Member
Having 3GB reserved was is obviously for "future proofing" until they know they don't need it, wouldn't be surprised if they decided to reserve that much also because of the XBox One also reserving that much because it is odd that they went from supposedly dedicating 1GB to the OS when they had 4GB of RAM to 3GB when they went up to 8.
I thought that the streaming/recording was handled by the ARM CPU and the dedicated 256MB of RAM it has available.
I thought that the streaming/recording was handled by the ARM CPU and the dedicated 256MB of RAM it has available.
jimbobsmells
Member
Maybe, but I have a feeling it was more likely time constraints combined with politics.
Time constraints yes, politics nah. Why? All their TVs and bluray players have DLNA and mp3 playback.
I dont think it really has anything to do with the original ram count to be honest. Ps3 was able to do well enough and it had a pretty slim amount of ram in comparison to 4gb. It could be any number of things possibly including difficulty implementing it(I have no clue how hard it is to implement it tbh) or perhaps a willing decision not to implement it(perhaps to boost music unlimited subscriptions?).
Cizeta-Moroder
Banned
But there isn't much they can do about the 15min recording buffer.
jimbobsmells
Member
No idea. Time could be because of impending release date and other features being prioritised. Politics because someone thought pushing dlna down the list of priorities might help drive music unlimited in the interim? We'll never know.
Right, they are probably keeping it more flexible and PC like, not knowing how the machine may need to adapt to the market. It could just as easily do everything MS could ever implement into Xbone, turn itself into a DVR of sorts, streaming device, central media hub, etc. Wouldn't be surprised if the OS is only using a very small fraction of that 3GB currently.
Also 5 GIG is a lot of RAM relatively speaking. Ten times more than last gen had to play with.
So previously you thought that the xbone OS ran on magic?...
Moral Panic
Member
This just shows how much BS was being thrown around prerelease and that insiders frankly can't be trusted. Digital foundry said it was 5gb but now you can't even search for the thread because it has been given a stupid name because 'insiders' came up with their own number.
As someone running Windows 8.1 Hyper-V on my gaming machine, there have been times where I have left multiple operating systems running in the background without any me noticing in terms of game performance.
I'm talking 2x Windows 2012 Servers & 1x RedHat - been playing games for hours, or even days, then bringing up my Hyper-V console only to realise that these machines have been running all along.
The overhead is super low in terms of CPU on an idle system (but of course it depends on what your guest operating systems are doing). Yes, my 4770k probably does have a decent amount more spare cycles than the CPU in the XB1 but at the same time it's a closed system which they can likely predict and more tightly control resources to minimise the impact.
Only 5GB of ram for the games? Well I'm now going to revise my review scores down 2 points per game, because they are now inferior.
Here you go
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=636106
Here you go
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=636106
Eh - if you count VRAM usage - games can use above 4 & 5 GB of RAM. And we should count VRAM usage if we're comparing it to consoles, since it's all one pool for them.
TitanFall uses 3GB VRAM on max settings + whatever system memory it uses (I never actually checked system memory usage).
Install vanilla GTA4 and start playing with the LOD distance slider. Game will visually show you how much VRAM it will need, and can take AS MUCH as you have.
It's odd that people still don't seem to understand that, especially when it comes to framerate, it's a developers choice rather than a technical limitation regarding 30vs60fps.
I could make a single triangle on a screen run at 5fps on a GTX Titan vs a 3D world run at 500fps on that same GPU. It's all about how developers prioritise their use of resources - many of them prioritise higher graphical fidelity over 60fps - it's really that simple.
When it comes to resolution it's a bit more complicated. Prioritisation of available system resources plays into it, but there are technical limitations that we're still far from getting past that mean it can play a significant role in a decision whether a game is 1080p or not. I suspect a developer will ask themselves the question "Can we get to 1080p and deliver on our other goals that require some of these system resources?" If not - 1080p is usually going to lose out vs those other goals.
On PS4 vs XB1 - I suspect they develop to the weakest system (XB1) because they'll want largely the same experience across both. They'll make sure they reach their primary goals on the Xbox One, which may mean a reduced resolution, and then find that to develop to the same specification as they did on the PS4 - they have some more available resources they can utilise for things like increased resolution, a higher unlocked framerate, better antialiasing, etc.
Jason was awesome.
We were all very happy to have him here in Lisbon at SINFO XXI. The organization did a great job and you could see he was extremely happy to be here and was having fun.
Had the chance to talk with the guy a bit after his talk and he was very humble about his work. He was always praising the team as well. You can really feel that the liberty and process of working at Naughty Dog is very different from other places and the story he told about the recruiting process really makes you see how they get to have such an awesome team working there.
They also got him in a small booth to talk to fans and give autographs and that was great since the students at IST here in Lisbon got a chance to meet him and ask questions directly.
We were all very happy to have him here in Lisbon at SINFO XXI. The organization did a great job and you could see he was extremely happy to be here and was having fun.
Had the chance to talk with the guy a bit after his talk and he was very humble about his work. He was always praising the team as well. You can really feel that the liberty and process of working at Naughty Dog is very different from other places and the story he told about the recruiting process really makes you see how they get to have such an awesome team working there.
They also got him in a small booth to talk to fans and give autographs and that was great since the students at IST here in Lisbon got a chance to meet him and ask questions directly.
Dragon1893
Member
Damn, didn't even realize this was here in Portugal lol. Pretty awesome. Thanks for the impressions.
The posts asking for 60 fps for ND's PS4 games make me smile since I'm pretty sure most of those same people would be all over ND if their game isn't the best looking console game ever, not realizing that it would be completely unfair to demand that when they would be competing against games that run at half the frame-rate. They wont win either way.
It's always a matter of compromise of visuals vs performance regardless of the hardware, weird that this still needs to be repeated over and over again.
just wasnt a priority, nothing else.
Captain Tuttle
Member
You're probably right, it's just that many of us had to wade through months of "8gb DDR 5 lol Xbone" posts and got tired of it. One thing that certain members are good at on GAF is beating a meme to death.
I forgot about that, but the OS is probably still involved in that process.
There's also future game resume and all of that that must consume their fair share of RAM
Dragon1893
Member
We already know it's Uncharted.