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[firehawk12]

http://images.complex.com/complex/i...reen_Shot_2015-06-15_at_1.01.02_PM_xnnnlh.png

Oh shit. Haha.

 

[Triggafinga]

Several of the cast members include the lead actor are mixed race or not specifically Chinese, for what that's worth. But they also went after some of the bigger named Asian actors in Hollywood right now, and the pool is already fairly small, so there's only so much they could do.

the answer is unsurprisingly not black and white.

 

[Apt101]

I don't see why it matters when it comes to voice acting. Race, nationality, gender, none of it matters. All that matters is whether or not the actor can bring the character to life.

Bart Simpson is a woman (gasp!). Here's the guy who does Kratos:

He did an awesome job. I saw him featured in the extras on disc years back and never gave it a second thought until I read this thread tonight. I think many people are so eager to find offense in everything they don't stop to think about what they're becoming outraged about. This sort of reminds me of the time people got all up in arms because Edris Elba portrayed Heimdall - a make believe mythological figure.

 

[PBY]

This topic was discussed in a vacuum, until people expanded it to wider issues. People need to be being able to understand one persons opinion on a single topic doesn't reflect how they feel on a topic adjacent to it. We we're and I'm defending my statements on Naughty Dog having a white VA play the role or a Black character. Thats it.

An example I gave regarding a perspective to take on black representation was taken as my gospel truth, which to me shows me not only how strongly people feel towards misrepresentation of this kind, but how people read what they want. You pick apart my posts like each sentence exists in a vacuum, when the whole context matters. This topic is simply too sensitive for my opinoins, and said opinions simply do not mesh or come out wrong.

You keep saying people are misreading your posts.

Naw man, read it perfectly, was just a hella racist sentiment

 

[ItIsOkBro]

Women face a specific problem with representation with a trope called "Put a ribbon on it". This is a similar to what ND did with blackness. The character wasn't designed to be representative of any race. She was made black because it looked cool and added some visual interest to the cast. It's not a problem. It's also not representation. ND never claimed that they were trying to be inclusive. It was an assumption I made when I saw the character and I was wrong.

What does it mean to you, to be designed to be representative of a race? I would feel absolutely represented by a character that was brown and nothing else.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

You ever stop to think that maybe there are more white VA because they pursue the industry harder and become more talented, regardless of color?

Much like how Black sprinters typically run faster and are more prominent in the Olympics. Is it down to color, or maybe because they train harder than other people, regardless of color?

This focus on color over character furthers the divide between ethnicities. Again the lack of black characters in games can be attributed to those with creative power, the lack of highly talented black VA or any other number of reasons.

Or are you so focused on a video games characters skin that the person voiceing them must also be black? Are you so insecure about the identity of the character being associated as simply a "black woman" that you feel the need to reinforce it with a black voice actress?

When I see Nadine Ross, I see more than her skin. Apparently you dont.

What the fuck is going on in people's heads?!?

 

[firehawk12]

What does it mean to you, to be designed to be representative of a race? I would feel absolutely represented by a character that was brown and nothing else.

Not to speak for him, but if a character's race is completely interchangeable and not a part of the character's identity, then you can argue that it's not really representative. It's at best an aesthetic choice.

 

[Spring-Loaded]

Then why dismiss black VAs that have played white characters. The vacuum argument seems to only be applicable to your point of view.

Allowing blacks to VA white roles has to be addressed also . its borne of the world

If someone dismisses it in your eyes, it's probably because the majority of actors in most media are white, and the odds of them getting cast for a role are on their favor for myriad reasons. Does that make sense? It's not that the opposite doesn't matter, it's that white actors in general getting work is not something that ever needs to be actively worked toward since this industry is so heavily homogeneous and mostly white — I don't think I need to go into how that makes it harder for people of other races/walks of life to get into the industry, right?

And his question to someone who's actually dismissing that and saying it doesn't matter. And if no one's actually saying it, ask yourself why that's what you think of.

 

[Deleted member 30609]

This topic was discussed in a vacuum, until people expanded it to wider issues. People need to be being able to understand one persons opinion on a single topic doesn't reflect how they feel on a topic adjacent to it. We we're and I'm defending my statements on Naughty Dog having a white VA play the role or a Black character. Thats it. It's up to you to know which topics I dress directly. If you take a statement in one context and apply it to another its interpreted differently. Is that my fault for not being hyper aware of how my views come across in every conceivable way?

An example I gave regarding a perspective to take on black representation was taken as my gospel truth, which to me shows me not only how strongly people feel towards misrepresentation of this kind, but how people read what they want. You pick apart my posts like each sentence exists in a vacuum, when the whole context matters. This topic is simply too sensitive for my opinions, and said opinions simply do not mesh or come out wrong.

to summarise: you're completely unwilling to take personal responsibility for anything you've said in this thread

rather than acknowledging that you were talking about issues that you (innocuously) didn't know anything about, you instead think it's our fault for not interpreting or understanding your post correctly, despite the many opportunities you've been given to elaborate.

 

[Triggafinga]

Are white VAs underrepresented?

so because white characters are well represented, they get a diverse pool of VAs to choose from while black characters are relegated to black VAs only??

that's how we get more black characters in games?

I want more black characters in gaming. VA is a colorblind occupation. IMO

Most people do not know VA's skin color just their voice.

black or minority VAs with access issue should speak up but this specially has nothing to do with ND or Nadine IMO

 

[Nanashrew]

I don't see why it matters when it comes to voice acting. Race, nationality, gender, none of it matters. All that matters is whether or not the actor can bring the character to life.

Bart Simpson is a woman (gasp!). Here's the guy who does Kratos:

He did an awesome job. I saw him featured in the extras on disc years back and never gave it a second thought until I read this thread tonight. I think many people are so eager to find offense in everything they don't stop to think about what they're becoming outraged about. This sort of reminds me of the time people got all up in arms because Edris Elba portrayed Heimdall - a make believe mythological figure.

I'd love to hear TC Carson in more roles, his resume is pretty sparse outside all the Kratos and Mace Windu cartoon/game reprisals.

 

[TheLaughingStock]

This is great. Balance it out and it's worth looking at the GAF opinion once in awhile and considering that with all the other factors in play.

 

[PBY]

so because white characters are well represented, they get a diverse pool of VAs to choose from while black characters are relegated to black VAs only??

that's how we get more black characters in games?

I want more black characters in gaming. VA is a colorblind occupation. IMO

Most people do not know VA's skin color just their voice.

black or minority VAs with access issue should speak up but this specially has nothing to do with ND or Nadine IMO

Do you understand why concepts like affirmative action exist? That idea holds true in cases like this.

 

[Mustafo]

Neogaf SJWs creating another non controversy mining for brownie points for defending minorities?

How long until these people get embarrassing enough to start banning?

 

[PBY]

Neogaf SJWs creating another non controversy mining for brownie points for defending minorities?

How long until these people get embarrassing enough to start banning?

Welp.

 

[firehawk12]

Neogaf SJWs creating another non controversy mining for brownie points for defending minorities?

How long until these people get embarrassing enough to start banning?

Really?

 

[JumpCancel]

You keep saying people are misreading your posts.

Naw man, read it perfectly, was just a hella racist sentiment

Hardly. If anything it was against racism and down to individuals apart from their race. Every time wrote "regardless of color" it apparently went over every bodies head. Or is disregarding color racist in itself?

Let me remind you what racism means:

a person who believes that a particular race is superior to another.

Now superiority can be subjective. I presented the idea that some voice actors who are white may be superior due to a deeper drive, and gave a counter example in the inverse showing it is not down to color or race.

Admittedly I wasn't aware the divide in white to other ethnicities representations in media was a big as it was, and this statement wasn't written with that in mind. To me taking it into another context isn't fair since it wasn't my intention.

 

[Fat4all]

Neogaf SJWs creating another non controversy mining for brownie points for defending minorities?

How long until these people get embarrassing enough to start banning?

Mustafo
27 posts


Wow. So young. So daring.

 

[Night Angel]

Neogaf SJWs creating another non controversy for minority loving brownie points?

How long until these people get embarrassing enough to start banning?

I'd imagine embarrassing posts like the one I'm quoting get banned pretty damn fast. Have a good break.

 

[LookAtMeGo]

Neogaf SJWs creating another non controversy mining for brownie points for defending minorities?

How long until these people get embarrassing enough to start banning?

Great post man. And welcome. I'm sure you'll fit in great.


I dont see how anyone can think this isnt at least worth discussing.

 

[PBY]

Hardly. If anything it was against racism and down to individuals apart from their race. Every time wrote "regardless of color" it apparently went over every bodies head. Or is disregarding color racist in itself?

Let me remind you what racism means:

a person who believes that a particular race is superior to another.

Now superiority can be subjective. I presented the idea that some voice actors who are white may be superior due to a deeper drive, and gave a counter example in the inverse showing it is not down to color or race.

Admittedly I wasn't aware the divide in white to other ethnicities representations in media was a big as it was, and this statement wasn't written with that in mind. To me taking it into another context isn't fair since it wasn't my intention.

Dude. Stop repeating this. It's a bigoted view no matter how many ways you rephrase it.

 

[Sylvrfonic]

What does it mean to you, to be designed to be representative of a race? I would feel absolutely represented by a character that was brown and nothing else.

Without irony or sarcasm I'm genuinely happy that a character's hue is enough for you to feel represented.

I'd really like to answer your question. But, I don't think that this thread is the right forum. I will say that for me, if the race of the character is completely interchangeable it's only representative of the broadest definition of what is socially considered "normal" and I don't think would adequately represent what blackness mean to me.

 

[Mustafo]

I'd imagine embarrassing posts like the one I'm quoting get banned pretty damn fast. Have a good break.

Is this some SWJ dictatorship regime or something? Have I triggered anyone or do you guys hate free speech too?

 

[Fat4all]

Let me remind you what racism means:

a person who believes that a particular race is superior to another.

Never mind the proliferation of its meaning, it seems :/

 

[Deleted member 30609]

don't take the alt bait

 

[shoreu]

Blam. Always great to end on a "done in one".

This happens a lot though it's nothing new.

 

[PBY]

Is this some SWJ dictatorship regime or something? Have I triggered anyone or do you guys hate free speech too?

Do you hate empathy?

Not going to engage because I've been down this road many times and know how these discussions always end.

 

[Daingurse]

Is this some SWJ dictatorship regime or something? Have I triggered anyone or do you guys hate free speech too?

 

[Scientist Supreme!]

Hardly. If anything it was against racism and down to individuals apart from their race. Every time wrote "regardless of color" it apparently went over every bodies head. Or is disregarding color racist in itself?

Let me remind you what racism means:

a person who believes that a particular race is superior to another.

Now superiority can be subjective. I presented the idea that some voice actors who are white may be superior due to a deeper drive, and gave a counter example in the inverse showing it is not down to color or race.

Admittedly I wasn't aware the divide in white to other ethnicities representations in media was a big as it was, and this statement wasn't written with that in mind. To me taking it into another context isn't fair since it wasn't my intention.

Dude. Just stop. Take a break and think about what you wrote.
Alright?

 

[firehawk12]

Without irony or sarcasm I'm genuinely happy that a character's hue is enough for you to feel represented.

I'd really like to answer your question. But, I don't think that this thread is the right forum. I will say that for me, if the race of the character is completely interchangeable it's only representative of the broadest definition of what is socially considered "normal" and I don't think would adequately represent what blackness mean to me.

It's kind of easy though. Take a show like Master of None. Aziz Ansari's Indian identity is essential to the character. Take that away and half the show's jokes, particularly the ones about his family, don't work anymore.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

I'm honestly pretty shocked by this debate. Nadine Ross isn't a person, she's a completely fictional character.

And it's not even the first time this has happened... This is something that routinely happens in anime, cartoons and other games.

Just saying anime characters don't really have traceable ethnicities from appearances very often

 

[Enzom21]

Do you hate empathy?

Not going to engage because I've been down this road many times and know how these discussions always end.

27 posts in a year, don't bother. It was clearly some coward's alt

 

[Kazaam]

Do you understand why concepts like affirmative action exist? That idea holds true in cases like this.

I thought affirmative action was to push for equal access by giving more to some, not to give less to others.

EDIT: Also, you do realise there are black VAs doing voices for other minorities that might be even less represented than them.

 

[Ganzlinger]

I dont see how anyone can think this isnt at least worth discussing.

Looking at this thread, this discussion won't get anywhere. People are too stubborn to change their minds.

 

[firehawk12]

27 posts in a year, don't bother. It was clearly some coward's alt

Not anymore.

 

[Triggafinga]

If someone dismisses it in your eyes, it's probably because the majority of actors in most media are white, and the odds of them getting cast for a role are on their favor for myriad reasons. Does that make sense? It's not that the opposite doesn't matter, it's that white actors in general getting work is not something that ever needs to be actively worked toward since this industry is so heavily homogeneous and mostly white — I don't think I need to go into how that makes it harder for people of other races/walks of life to get into the industry, right?

And his question to someone who's actually dismissing that and saying it doesn't matter. And if no one's actually saying it, ask yourself why that's what you think of.

Take into account that people who buy games are disproportionately more white therefore the content tends to target whites more.

Also there's structural racial issue that prevent black into getting into programming and arts.

Being black i'm aware of glass ceilings in society and whatnot but to allow blacks to voice white roles but not the inverse is intellectually dishonest to what i understand ART is.

To make this arbitrary rule that skin colors need to match undermines not only the creative process. Makes the culture of the VA superficial and splintered.

 

[Mobius and pet octopus]

I'm so fucking confused as to why this is even a controversy or why people think a character should not be played by someone out of their skin color. I think I underestimate how stupid and crazy the world can be sometimes.

I am sorry if I have and I don't mean to offend anyone for their beliefs, this is just an honest reaction to this "controversy."

 

[Scientist Supreme!]

Looking at this thread, this discussion won't get anywhere. People are too stubborn to change their minds.

What should they change their minds to?

I'm so fucking confused as to why this is even a controversy or why people think a character should not be played by someone out of their skin color. I think I underestimate how stupid and crazy the world can be sometimes.

I am sorry if I have and I don't mean to offend anyone for their beliefs, this is just an honest reaction to this "controversy."

Read this:

Black people barely have any representation in the industry, on or off the screen. That's why it's important that when developers do decide to include black characters that they promote diversity behind the screen as well by casting black actors to fill those roles.

 

[orthodoxy1095]

Are white VAs underrepresented?

Outside of your monopoly of white American/Brit VAs of Western European descent, actually yes, at least a bit.

 

[PBY]

Outside of your monopoly of white American/Brit VAs of Western European descent, actually yes, at least a bit.

Wait what

 

[SolidSnakex]

I'd love to hear TC Carson in more roles, his resume is pretty sparse outside all the Kratos and Mace Windu cartoon/game reprisals.

That may come down to him turning down roles. I know Emily Rose (Elena from Uncharted) has said that she's been offered a bunch of game roles since Uncharted, but she always turns them down. In part because the people casting always want her to play Elena.

 

[Team Filler]

Looking at this thread, this discussion won't get anywhere. People are too stubborn to change their minds.

I'd imagine the discussion at large would be more focused and productive were it made into its own thread instead of having to piggyback directly off of the Uncharted 4 discussion.

 

[Spinluck]

You ever stop to think that maybe there are more white VA because they pursue the industry harder and become more talented, regardless of color?

Much like how Black sprinters typically run faster and are more prominent in the Olympics. Is it down to color, or maybe because they train harder than other people, regardless of color?

This focus on color over character furthers the divide between ethnicities. Again the lack of black characters in games can be attributed to those with creative power, the lack of highly talented black VA or any other number of reasons.

Or are you so focused on a video games characters skin that the person voiceing them must also be black? Are you so insecure about the identity of the character being associated as simply a "black woman" that you feel the need to reinforce it with a black voice actress?

When I see Nadine Ross, I see more than her skin. Apparently you dont.

:jnc

 

[duckroll]

Admittedly I wasn't aware the divide in white to other ethnicities representations in media was a big as it was, and this statement wasn't written with that in mind. To me taking it into another context isn't fair since it wasn't my intention.

If a lack of understanding of the social context led to you write something which others find in poor taste, and it is related to the discussion at hand, then it should be pretty easy to admit that the statement is poorly phrased and learn from it. Knowledge is power, understanding the world and how others think and feel will lead to better community in future. Taking the stubborn route of arguing to defend the "context" of statements made in ignorance instead is just a waste of time and reflects poorly on the person defending it. Trust me, I speak from experience. I've said a lot of dumb shit when I was younger too.

 

[Ghostmaster]

Hardly. If anything it was against racism and down to individuals apart from their race. Every time wrote "regardless of color" it apparently went over every bodies head. Or is disregarding color racist in itself?

Let me remind you what racism means:

a person who believes that a particular race is superior to another.

Now superiority can be subjective. I presented the idea that some voice actors who are white may be superior due to a deeper drive, and gave a counter example in the inverse showing it is not down to color or race.

Admittedly I wasn't aware the divide in white to other ethnicities representations in media was a big as it was, and this statement wasn't written with that in mind. To me taking it into another context isn't fair since it wasn't my intention.

The problem with your line of thinking is that most of the results of that superiority are due to the prolong period of time that people had a far more suitable and privileged position than many minorities.

Most of the industry is white and therefore there is probably a lot of conscious and unconscious bias that may overrule your superiority claim.

Also I guess most people are hard on you because it really seems from that first post that you're implying that minorities are just not trying as hard as white people, but I'm just gonna take that as bad phrasing.

Wait what

Culturally and ethnically there is a huge number of whites that are underrepresented in the media, especially western media.

 

[Majanew]

Surprised it was addressed. It is tiresome having to listen to people crying wolf everyday. Hopefully, future Uncharted 4 threads will be free of it.

 

[Triggafinga]

Do you understand why concepts like affirmative action exist? That idea holds true in cases like this.

I'm black and older than 30. I do understand AA

The gaming industry (especially ND) is more progressive than most industries.

Do you understand there are people who disagree with affirmative action (even black) we are monolith. AA is effective but sports and art I believe are competitive by nature.

Diversity is an advantage. we do not need to pigeon-hole blacks to only black roles.

the payoff to being a company who is diverse is the product.

 

[the210]

What the fuck is going on in people's heads?!?

Hey man it goes right along with " most qualified " line minority's always get. It never seems to cross people's minds that other people are just as qualified. What it usually means is the most qualified person they can relate too or fill comfortable with.
Btw this is by no means a shot at naughty dog it's about the people who always assume a lack of qualified minority's as the reason for them not getting jobs

 

[PBY]

If a lack of understanding of the social context led to you write something which others find in poor taste, and it is related to the discussion at hand, then it should be pretty easy to admit that the statement is poorly phrased and learn from it. Knowledge is power, understanding the world and how others think and feel will lead to better community in future. Taking the stubborn route of arguing to defend the "context" of statements made in ignorance instead is just a waste of time and reflects poorly on the person defending it. Trust me, I speak from experience. I've said a lot of dumb shit when I was younger too.

This is a good post because I've also said a ton of dumb shit. It's only with discussions like this that issues are ironed out and you can look inward and try to examine why some views that you hold are problematic to others. By looking inward we progress.

 

[Fat4all]

Wait what

Louis CK needs to become a voice actor, basically. White Mexican.

Actually, now that I think of it, he is.