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[The Faceless Master]

Let's say you sell the game on Ebay, when that buyer eventually pops that game into his system, the network sees the disc ID and sends a message to your system automatically with the question 'Would you like to give up ownership? Yes/No'.

I can see problems though, what if the seller doesn't give up ownership? (just to be a bastard)

1) sell rare game for lots of money
2) ???
3) profit even more

 

[Panajev2001a]

Let's say you sell the game on Ebay, when that buyer eventually pops that game into his system, the network sees the disc ID and sends a message to your system automatically with the question 'Would you like to give up ownership? Yes/No'.

Uhm, this could be another way of looking at things... you would not have to input "permission" before the game is "shared" or sold, but the system would be asking you when the other user picks it up and logs online.

 

[Hitler Stole My Potato]

wrong.

also, supporting microtransactions only encurages further behaviors like this.

pretty soon, consoles will be houses for consumables... you want to play a game you already licensed and downloaded, insert $3 for 3 more hours as your license has expired!

What? No. This is a completely different animal than microtransactions. This effects the used and rental market. ****ing rental! Anymore that's almost all I do is rent. With games becoming more and more expensive this much, much worse.

I'm not touching any console that actually implements this bullshit.

 

[Kabuki Waq]

This is the reason i have been against microtransactions the CONCEPT in itself gives devs an option to hold on to content and release uncomplete games and it will just get worse and worse.

 

[The Faceless Master]

Because...? I think it makes perfect sense. All-digital products have very limited owner rights because it would be possible to spread an identical version of this product around to anyone who wanted one with minimal effort. The aims of this patent seem not only to combat piracy but to generate extra revenue on legal transfers of the product. How is that not bullshit?



And whatever companies or publishers who eventually do that can go eat a dick. The system as it is now - with microtransactions being useless and easily ignorable trinkets - is really very benign. Consumables, as mentioned by MS and Sony, are another matter entirely. I will not be partaking in any sort of consumables or games that require them. It's that easy.

if you support microtransactions, you are only encouraging this behavior.

Period.

 

[Wollan]

I don't think you understand. Let's say you bought a game of a guy from another country.
You get the disc but the guy refuses to give you ownership. What can you do? You have a dead disc on your hands and he got your money.

Uhm, this could be another way of looking at things... you would not have to input "permission" before the game is "shared" or sold, but the system would be asking you when the other user picks it up and logs online.

That's what I mean. The buyer has no control over the seller giving him ownership.

 

[The Faceless Master]

What? No. This is a completely different animal than microtransactions. This effects the used and rental market. ****ing rental! Anymore that's almost all I do is rent. With games becoming more and more expensive this much, much worse.

I'm not touching any console that actually implements this bullshit.

how do you go about renting or borrowing ... oh, let's say ... geometry wars?

 

[Panajev2001a]

TTP:

[0011] The host server compares the transmitted disc identification with the stored disc identifications associated with the transmitted user identification in the user table, and if necessary, with the stored disc identifications associated with the other user identifications. The host server awards incentive points to (1) the sub-account of a user of a first-time registered disc, (2) the sub-account of a previous user of a disc that has granted another user access permission, and (3) the sub-account of a user of a disc used previously by the same user.

[0039] If, in step 645, the host server 130 does match the received DISC UNIQUE ID 230 to a DISC UNIQUE ID in another user's user table, then another user owns the disc 110. Therefore, in step 660, the host server 130 searches the databases of the other user for owner consent data. If the other user has not granted access permission, then the user is denied access in step 665

I mean, it seems a bit clear-cut here IMHO.

 

[Kabuki Waq]

I don't think you understand. Let's say you bought a game of a guy from another country.
You get the disc but the guy refuses to give you ownership. What can you do? You have a dead disc on your hands and he got your money.



That's what I mean. The buyer has no control over the seller giving him ownership.

there are way too many flaws in this system for sony to implement it IMO. I think we are just worrying about nothing for now.

 

[Hitler Stole My Potato]

how do you go about renting or borrowing ... oh, let's say ... geometry wars?

Xbox Live Arcade Unplugged. Or you could rent PGR3. It's in there too.

But XBLA games are just small little diversions. There's a big difference between not being able to rent something like Spades on XBLA than a full blown game like Resistance. BIG DIFFERENCE.

 

[gofreak]

Let's say you sell the game on Ebay, when that buyer eventually pops that game into his system, the network sees the disc ID and sends a message to your system automatically with the question 'Would you like to give up ownership? Yes/No'.

I can see problems though, what if the seller doesn't give up ownership? (just to be a bastard)

If 'pre-authorisation' was possible it would maybe solve that, considering that you need both authorisation and the game itself to actually play the game.

1) Seller preauthorises the buyer for that game (authorisation cannot be revoked)

2) Buyer sees that they're pre-authorised, sends the money

3) Seller sends the game

4) Buyer pops the game in and it works immediately with no further fuss

If the buyer doesn't pay up after pre-authorisation, it's no big deal since the sender won't be sending them the game, so that authorisation is kind of useless in this situation (where you're selling to someone anonymously over the net). If the seller doesn't send the game, then the normal eBay process would apply. Heck, maybe it could even apply as far as absent authorisation is confirmed in these cases, obviating the need for all this pre-authorisation stuff.

(I haven't thought through how unrevokable pre-authorisation could impact other types of sharing, so don't be surprised if this exposes loopholes or the like under other circumstances )

 

[charlequin]

Depends on what side of the fence you're on. More money to the developers and publishers means more new IP's and less rehashes of "sure bets" and sports games. And its not like you're out anything on the deal.

You are absolutely correct! That's why EA is known throughout the videogaming world as the most innovative and unique developer of all time.

 

[Panajev2001a]

there are way too many flaws in this system for sony to implement it IMO. I think we are just worrying about nothing for now.

It is better to worry about it now and let some anger at it now, if we have any towards it. Even that it might not work.

BALLATA DELLA MODA
Era l'autunno e il cameriere Antonio,
servendo a un tavolo di grandi industriali,
sentì decidere che per l'estate prossima
sarebbe andata di moda l'acqua blu.

Loro dicevano che bastava fare
una campagna di pubblicità,
mettere in ogni bar un po' di bottigliette
ed il successo non poteva mancare.

Antonio tra sé rideva...
"Ah ah ah..ah ah ah...."
Diceva:"Me ne infischio della moda,
io bevo solo quello che mi va".

Venne l'inverno e Antonio vide al cinema
cortometraggi con bottiglie d'acqua blu,
fotografie sui muri e sui giornali
di belle donne che invitavano a provarla.

In primavera già qualcuno la beveva
e pure lui, un giorno a casa di un amico, dovette berla
perché quello, imbarazzato, gli disse:
"Scusa, ma non m'è rimasto altro".

Antonio però rideva...
"Ah ah ah...ah ah ah....."
Diceva:"Me ne infischio della moda,
ma in mancanza d'altro bevo quel che c'è".

Venne l'estate ed in villeggiatura
Antonio aveva sete e non sapeva cosa bere;
in ogni bar dove chiedeva un dissetante,
manco a farlo apposta, gli servivano acqua blu.

Le prime volte lui si era opposto
ma poi pensò "ma chi me lo fa fare?"
e da quel giorno a poco a poco si abituò;
un mese dopo non beveva altro.

Antonio però rideva...
"Ah ah ah..ah ah ah..."
Diceva:"Me ne infischio della moda,
ma bevo questa bibita perché mi va".

 

[The Faceless Master]

Xbox Live Arcade Unplugged. Or you could rent PGR3. It's in there too.

But XBLA games are just small little diversions. There's a big difference between not being able to rent something like Spades on XBLA than a full blown game like Resistance. BIG DIFFERENCE.

you claim to see some sort of difference between a game that costs $5-15 and $40-60, but the only difference is cost... at what price point does it become accceptable?

 

[Wollan]

If the buyer doesn't pay up after pre-authorisation, it's no big deal since the sender won't be sending them the game, so that authorisation is kind of useless in this situation (where you're selling to someone anonymously over the net). If the seller doesn't send the game, then the normal eBay process would apply.

There has to be some kind of system connected to all this of course. Like an actual 'ebay' software that takes money from the buyer when the pre-authorisation is done. Maybe that system will hold that money sum until the buyer actually puts the disc into his system(and then the money gets transferred). If that disc isn't inserted after 30 days however, ownership goes back to original owner.

I see problems though but I guess there are equal problems in the system we have today.

 

[ManaByte]

there are way too many flaws in this system for sony to implement it IMO. I think we are just worrying about nothing for now.

What if it already is? Would that affect your console buying decision?

 

[gofreak]

There has to be some kind of system connected to all this of course. Like an actual 'ebay' software that takes money from the buyer when the pre-authorisation is done.

I'm imagining the scenario where someone is ebaying the 'gift' of the game for free to the other user. So payment would happen over ebay as normal, but on the PS Network side the game would be given for $0. I figured we were all assuming that this is how ebay or Gamestop sales and the like would happen..the game is gifted for free on the Playstation side, in exchange for the money via the other channels. Of course, that relies on the ability to be able to gift games to others for free.

 

[TTP]

TTP:

I mean, it seems a bit clear-cut here IMHO.

It's a patent, Pana, not an user manual. Everything written there are ideas about what the system can do presented in a "it will do this" way rather than "it can do this" albeit the latter would be more correct.

As any patent, they try to cover as many application ideas they can think about, but that doesnt mean they will eventually implement all that stuff. That's why I'm thinking "simpler".

 

[Hitler Stole My Potato]

you claim to see some sort of difference between a game that costs $5-15 and $40-60, but the only difference is cost... at what price point does it become accceptable?

So you're telling me you can't see a difference between some XLBA game like Feeding Frenzy and a full blown title.....ok.... now we're crossing into crazy county. I think you're just arguing here just because you want to. There's no way you could be this dense.

This system will kill the rental market. If you want to contiune on this path of blaming XBLA be my guest.

 

[Kabuki Waq]

What if it already is? Would that affect your console buying decision?

If it already is in i will not buy the system. I depend alot on renting and buying/selling used games. I have a "slight" xbox bias but if MS did this shit i would not buy their system either. Microrapements piss me of enough already.

anyone who supports microtransactions is helping gamers get raped and is helping ruin the future of gaming. IMO

 

[TTP]

If 'pre-authorisation' was possible it would maybe solve that, considering that you need both authorisation and the game itself to actually play the game.

1) Seller preauthorises the buyer for that game (authorisation cannot be revoked)

2) Buyer sees that they're pre-authorised, sends the money

3) Seller sends the game

4) Buyer pops the game in and it works immediately with no further fuss

If the buyer doesn't pay up after pre-authorisation, it's no big deal since the sender won't be sending them the game, so that authorisation is kind of useless in this situation (where you're selling to someone anonymously over the net). If the seller doesn't send the game, then the normal eBay process would apply. Heck, maybe it could even apply as far as absent authorisation is confirmed in these cases, obviating the need for all this pre-authorisation stuff.

(I haven't thought through how unrevokable pre-authorisation could impact other types of sharing, so don't be surprised if this exposes loopholes or the like under other circumstances )

On a side note, while authorization cannot be revoked, you have to be able to do multiple authorizations on the same game cos if the buyer doesn't send the money after the pre-authorization you would be unable to sell it to another potential buyer cos you already authorized the other guy.

Anyway, I still don't think anyone will need to be authorized to play a second hand game at all.

 

[gofreak]

On a side note, while authorization cannot be revoked, you have to be able to do multiple authorizations cos if the buyer doesn't send the money after the pre-authorization you would be unable to sell it to another potential buyer cos you already authorized the other guy.

True. And I was thinking of another complication - if the seller didn't authorise, and the buyer subsequently didn't make good on their bid..the seller could I guess leave bad feedback on the buyer, even though the seller was the one that screwed up the transaction. It'd probably be a whole lot easier if the issue of authorisation was covered by eBay i.e. if the seller didn't authorised, it constitutes a non-fulfillment of their obligation under ebay. I guess if you say in an ad that you're also selling the authorisation and you subsequently don't make that authorisation, eBay will cover the buyer? It would be a matter for buyers then to make sure any game auctions they bid on explicitly mention that authorisation comes with the game. That would probably be the neatest solution (assuming authorisation would be required).

 

[Panajev2001a]

It's a patent, Pana, not an user manual. Everything written there are ideas about what the system can do presented in a "it will do this" way rather than "it can do this" albeit the latter would be more correct.

As any patent, they try to cover as many application ideas they can think about, but that doesnt mean they will eventually implement all that stuff. That's why I'm thinking "simpler".

Well, to me it gives also their "preferred" way of doing this once they got their way having all users online and participating into the system.

It seems to me that the system you envision would not require authorization at all or that you could, as owner of the disc, require or not to require the new user to be authorized or not.

I do not see it a huge burden for the actual user to give his/her permission to the person they give the game to or to the store they give their game to (It is not like Gamestop could not obtain a retail-wide User ID of sort).

You seem to place a nice protection toward the used game stores, but I am not sure that the idea of the author of the patent was to find a way to help them or that he cares a lot if they get hurt.

 

[Panajev2001a]

On a side note, while authorization cannot be revoked, you have to be able to do multiple authorizations on the same game cos if the buyer doesn't send the money after the pre-authorization you would be unable to sell it to another potential buyer cos you already authorized the other guy.

Anyway, I still don't think anyone will need to be authorized to play a second hand game at all.

Maybe they will not do that, but it is possible. The way you are putting it, it almost seems like no authorization would ever be needed even for newly purchased games. Basically that there would never be a mechanism to authorize-to-play the games you put in your console which is not just one single land-grabbing part of the patent, but it appears in tons of places in the patent.

 

[TTP]

Well, to me it gives also their "preferred" way of doing this once they got their way having all users online and participating into the system.

It seems to me that the system you envision would not require authorization at all or that you could, as owner of the disc, require or not to require the new user to be authorized or not.

I do not see it a huge burden for the actual user to give his/her permission to the person they give the game to or to the store they give their game to (It is not like Gamestop could not obtain a retail-wide User ID of sort).

You seem to place a nice protection toward the used game stores, but I am not sure that the idea of the author of the patent was to find a way to help them or that he cares a lot if they get hurt.

I think that in the beginning, considering not everyone has an internet connection, Sony will go the non-authorization route and then, in 2012 or whenever everyone will be connected to the Matrix, will beging imposing this authorization stuff. That patent looks like a "long term invetiment" if you get what I mean. "We write this stuff down just to be sure we wont get sued in the future if someone comes up with the same idea and patents it". Like the Sony tilt functionality patent was when they submitted it few years ago. Also, I think Sony will introduce the whole system slowly, step by step, functionality after functionality, to just not confuse the users (and screw resellers) and gradually make them accustomed with this new model.

As u can see by some of the comments in this thread, many are scared of it. Rightly so. Imagine if it would be in place with authorizations and everything on day one. The whole gaming universe would go WTF. THAT would really kill and bury Sony 4ever.

 

[Mmmkay]

Phew, that was a fun rollercoaster read. So basically, this generation, the only plausible application anyone has come up with for this system is a genre (MMO) which relies so heavily on recurring online subscription fees that they probably don't even give a shit about the piracy/rental/used game markets? Ohhhkay.

While I support the idea in principle, it seems there are several cases where this could be either over complicated for the common consumer, or highly exploitative. I also don't think I would support the proposition of 'internet connection required' games in a market which has a (potential) internet penetration of 60% either. This is however a very interesting mechanism for Sony to fund its online infrastructure with, if it ever gets implemented.

 

[Pope Benedict XVI]

Are there any sort of statistics relating to the used-game market? Where I am, video game retailers give almost as much or more space to used-games vis-a-vis new games. There is usually a wider variety of used games, and the retailers heavily promote the trading-in of games. They actually seem to prefer dealing in used games than new ones.

Would it be outlandish to say that 1/3 or 1/4 of games sold are used?

 

[RuGalz]

Do you guys realize how easily the rental market problem can be solved, hypothetically of course? Press discs with special rental disc ID, sell those to rental store for premier price, those discs work just like current games, no registration, no ownership transfer. Nothing changes for us except now Sony/Publisher can finally dip into rental market profits like Hollywood did or whatever the current economy model is with rental stores.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

if you support microtransactions, you are only encouraging this behavior.

Period.

Please. All the people who "support" microtransactions and then come full stop at consumables are going to send a very clear message. In every instance of mishandled microtransaction, the message was received and most of the time, approaches were adjusted (Oblivion). The same thing will happen with consumables. There is a middle ground between blind acceptance and Bustin' Up A Starbucks. It's called consumer choice, and it's been working its ehtereal magic for quite some time now.

 

[BuddyC]

Are there any sort of statistics relating to the used-game market? Where I am, video game retailers give almost as much or more space to used-games vis-a-vis new games. There is usually a wider variety of used games, and the retailers heavily promote the trading-in of games. They actually seem to prefer dealing in used games than new ones.

That's because the profit margins on used games are much, much, much, much higher than those on new titles.

 

[White Man]

Do you guys realize how easily the rental market problem can be solved, hypothetically of course? Press discs with special rental disc ID, sell those to rental store for premier price, those discs work just like current games, no registration, no ownership transfer. Nothing changes for us except now Sony/Publisher can finally dip into rental market profits like Hollywood did or whatever the current economy model is with rental stores.

Yeah, that's what I figured. I think the used games question is much more pressing.

 

[bengraven]

This is ****ed. Seriously ****ed. My interest in Sony dropped from 10% to zero. Goodbye Metal Gear Solid series. You will be missed.

And to those Sonybots who are spinning this to blame microtransactions, get your head on straight and go back to school. Seriously. You make me sad for the education system on this planet.

 

[ThirdEye]

Shocking to know NeoGAF had its frontpage!

 

[Kabuki Waq]

Please. All the people who "support" microtransactions and then come full stop at consumables are going to send a very clear message. In every instance of mishandled microtransaction, the message was received and most of the time, approaches were adjusted (Oblivion). The same thing will happen with consumables. There is a middle ground between blind acceptance and Bustin' Up A Starbucks. It's called consumer choice, and it's been working its ehtereal magic for quite some time now.

if you ****ers had let microtransactions fail consumables would not even be mentioned.

 

[Luckyman]

DRM-systems like Valve Steam are coming to consoles.. the question is just when. This generation seems a tad too early for this.

 

[Mrbob]

So instead of all this doom and gloom, this service could also potentially reward gamers who buy Sony Playstation 3 product? This could be a way to actually build brand loyalty too. Reward gamers for buying your products and services.

It doesn't sound as bad as I first thought.

IF you get points for buying games, selling games that you can use online for microtransactions, this sounds like a decent idea. Kind of like Amex giving you 5 percent bonus for using their card. I would still like to see how rental software pans out, even though I really don't rent games anymore.

Also, didn't Sony say each PS3 can handle 4 USER ids? Maybe this is how you bring a game over to your friends house to play. Make a user ID on his system.

It is a sticky situation, though. I hope this gets clarified at TGS.

 

[Bebpo]

BS man, BS.

So I didn't buy [EM]Enchant Arm for ~8000yen?

Because that's sure what it looks like on the receipt.


While I'll give you that not all the games are $5-10 more expensive than PS2 games, it's not like big X360 games aren't pushing prices 1000yen higher than the 6800yen PS2 price either.

http://www.amazon.co.jp/gp/product/B000BSHV76/
Dynasty Warriors 5 Special = 8000yen

http://www.amazon.co.jp/gp/product/B000E0TEZ8/
Bullet Witch = 7600yen

http://www.amazon.co.jp/gp/product/B000FJ6FQ4/
Dead Rising is going to be 8300 ****ing yen

What do you expect Blue Dragon to cost this winter?

I expect PS3 games to be the same. Small games ~7000yen, major games that actually might sell = 7600-8000yen.

 

[Jokeropia]

I'll say the same thing I said when rumors about this first arrived: it sounds too damn stupid even for Sony, but I guess you can't be sure anymore.

 

[Mrbob]

Actually I just thought of something that might get me pwned.

I'm probably not going to buy a PS3 this year. One of my friends is, and I planned on buying Resistance so we could tear it up via co-op. If I play Resistance on his PS3 then it is registered to his system. I hope I wouldn't have to pay more to play it when I get my own PS3.

 

[Wollan]

That could suck. But there has to be an option for games you rent or borrow.
If you end up needing to pay a ownership transfer(of what? 1$?) it won't be the end of the world(but totally unjustified in this case).

 

[Gherkin]

Any chance we could unsticky and retitle this thread? SOmething like 'get ready for ass rape, SOny style'

 

[ManaByte]

I agree, this thread would have far more attention on it if it had PS3 in the title.

Honestly this doesn't change my plans for getting a PS3 on launch day much, but I can understand how it'll seriously piss off some people who play a game, beat it, and then trade it in for another game.

 

[Jonnyram]

So I didn't buy [EM]Enchant Arm for ~8000yen?

Because that's sure what it looks like on the receipt.


While I'll give you that not all the games are $5-10 more expensive than PS2 games, it's not like big X360 games aren't pushing prices 1000yen higher than the 6800yen PS2 price either.

http://www.amazon.co.jp/gp/product/B000BSHV76/
Dynasty Warriors 5 Special = 8000yen

http://www.amazon.co.jp/gp/product/B000E0TEZ8/
Bullet Witch = 7600yen

http://www.amazon.co.jp/gp/product/B000FJ6FQ4/
Dead Rising is going to be 8300 ****ing yen

What do you expect Blue Dragon to cost this winter?

I expect PS3 games to be the same. Small games ~7000yen, major games that actually might sell = 7600-8000yen.

Yeah, overpriced games only happen on the 360 right?

FFXII = 8990 yen
FFVII DoC = 8190yen
KHII = 7770yen
Grandia III = 7980yen
Radiata Stories = 8190yen
DQVIII = 9240yen
DQV = 8190yen

The fact is, the standard 360 game price is still 7140 yen, the same as the current standard PS2 game price. Incidentally, average game prices went from 5800 yen on PS1 to 6800 yen on PS2 (the current 7140 yen is because of consumption tax being added to display prices since 2004). Standard DC price was 5800 yen, so it was the PS2 that caused the last price shift in Japan. You could see this affecting a lot of DC games in the second half of 2000, after PS2 had been released.

I honestly don't know what PS3 prices will be like, but to insinuate that 360 prices are higher than PS2 prices, in Japan, is just ridiculous.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

if you ****ers had let microtransactions fail consumables would not even be mentioned.

The fact that microtransactions DIDN'T fail means that even if every single person reading this went IG8 on the ass of XBLM, put bandanas over our mouths and kicked in Foot Locker windows, they would still exist.

 

[BooJoh]

Do you guys realize how easily the rental market problem can be solved, hypothetically of course? Press discs with special rental disc ID, sell those to rental store for premier price, those discs work just like current games, no registration, no ownership transfer. Nothing changes for us except now Sony/Publisher can finally dip into rental market profits like Hollywood did or whatever the current economy model is with rental stores.

Except that rental stores inevitably sell their old games, and some get stolen. Heck, under Blockbuster's new late fees policy, keeping a rental game is the same as buying the game from a store.

Basically, the rental copies would become "unlocked" copies that compromise the system. I can't see Sony going for that.

 

[Bebpo]

Yeah, overpriced games only happen on the 360 right?

FFXII = 8990 yen
FFVII DoC = 8190yen
KHII = 7770yen
Grandia III = 7980yen
Radiata Stories = 8190yen
DQVIII = 9240yen
DQV = 8190yen

The fact is, the standard 360 game price is still 7140 yen, the same as the current standard PS2 game price. Incidentally, average game prices went from 5800 yen on PS1 to 6800 yen on PS2 (the current 7140 yen is because of consumption tax being added to display prices since 2004). Standard DC price was 5800 yen, so it was the PS2 that caused the last price shift in Japan. You could see this affecting a lot of DC games in the second half of 2000, after PS2 had been released.

I honestly don't know what PS3 prices will be like, but to insinuate that 360 prices are higher than PS2 prices, in Japan, is just ridiculous.

C'mon stop playing ignorant here so you can make Sony out to be the big bad guy, while MS is the nice person helping you out. Look at what games on the PS2 are overpriced...they're basically all Square Enix stuff and more importantly they're all RPGS/RPG-spinoff. Normal non-rpgs games are never 7500+ on the PS2 and you know it. The fact that a Capcom action game like DEAD RISING is going to cost over 8000yen shows that the X360 has and continually will have games priced at 1000yen+ over PS2 games for many of its major releases.

I agree that PS2 raised game prices from 5800 -> 6800 and Xbox did that and worse (I remember some Xbox games being 7300+ Wasn't DoA Ultimate 7900yen?), but X360 is the system that's bringing it to the 7500-8000yen level and PS3 is just gonna come in and match that, just like it's going to match $59.99 in the US that MS has setup with the X360.

 

[RuGalz]

Except that rental stores inevitably sell their old games, and some get stolen. Heck, under Blockbuster's new late fees policy, keeping a rental game is the same as buying the game from a store.

Basically, the rental copies would become "unlocked" copies that compromise the system. I can't see Sony going for that.

The system only works if the person playing the game goes online, which is what 10-15% of total owners, so in a sense it's already compromised. Besides, obviously people playing these copies wouldn't getting any incentive points or whatever either. By the time rental store sell these games, they would be "old enough" it doesn't really matter. If rental store has to pay 5x more for the game, they'd be smart enough to charge you that amount if you decide to keep the game...

 

[Jonnyram]

C'mon stop playing ignorant here so you can make Sony out to be the big bad guy, while MS is the nice person helping you out.

I like how simple fact is stated as "playing ignorant" and making "Sony out to be the big bad guy". You can hardly claim I am misrepresenting the truth when you have managed to find the only four 360 titles that are above PS2 price, two of which are just 500 yen more, rather than the 1000 yen line you were spinning before. There's no trend of 8000+ games on 360, just a couple here and there, yet you insist it is continually happening. The typical price is 7140 yen, same as PS2.

Look at what games on the PS2 are overpriced...they're basically all Square Enix stuff and more importantly they're all RPGS/RPG-spinoff.

What does that matter? I fail to see how an RPG-spinoff should be forgiven for being overpriced, or an RPG for that matter. What makes DQVIII 2000 yen more expensive than Metal Gear Solid 3? Is it, perhaps, the fact that it's gonna sell to the fans anyway, so you may as well string them along. 'Cos that's why DOA games are always overpriced.

I agree that PS2 raised game prices from 5800 -> 6800 and Xbox did that and worse (I remember some Xbox games being 7300+ Wasn't DoA Ultimate 7900yen?)

Now you're reaching. Team Ninja is the sole company to do that on the Xbox. Oh, it must be Microsoft's fault!!!

 

[DCharlie]

So I didn't buy [EM]Enchant Arm for ~8000yen?

you shouldn't have, no. Because it didn't cost me 8000 yen, that's for sure.

i'll repeat it once more - the RRP prices are the same - go and pull up PS2 games on amazon, you'll see that the RRP is also 7180 on pretty much all the PS2 games.

Actual store price is always going to be different.

Because that's sure what it looks like on the receipt.

Bebpo , i really am past caring- if this is how much you are paying to get stuff sent from japan you need to talk to who is supplying your games.

The prices are the same as PS2 games - if i have to go and take photos to prove this, so be it.

C'mon stop playing ignorant here so you can make Sony out to be the big bad guy, while MS is the nice person helping you out. Look at what games on the PS2 are overpriced...they're basically all Square Enix stuff and more importantly they're all RPGS/RPG-spinoff. Normal non-rpgs games are never 7500+ on the PS2 and you know it. The fact that a Capcom action game like DEAD RISING is going to cost over 8000yen shows that the X360 has and continually will have games priced at 1000yen+ over PS2 games for many of its major releases.

I agree that PS2 raised game prices from 5800 -> 6800 and Xbox did that and worse (I remember some Xbox games being 7300+ Wasn't DoA Ultimate 7900yen?), but X360 is the system that's bringing it to the 7500-8000yen level and PS3 is just gonna come in and match that, just like it's going to match $59.99 in the US that MS has setup with the X360.

seriously - i really don't know what to say here - jonny basically summed it up. games at 8000 yen on the X360 look to be the exception - it's NOT the rule. Neither of us are trying to make out that "MS is the nice person" and "sony is the bad guy" - this was a comment _related_ to the fact that the base price is purported to be going up 1000 yen across the board with regards to a potential limiting of the second hand market.

We can't help you here - the prices right now for X360 games are the same as PS2 games. To insinuate that it's the X360 that's taking the game costs up _in Japan_ is just plain wrong.

The fact that a Capcom action game like DEAD RISING is going to cost over 8000yen shows that the X360 has and continually will have games priced at 1000yen+ over PS2 games for many of its major releases.

okay - so lets say this is true just to solve this retarded debate - so ... as jonny pointed out, this is the same pricing structure as the PS2 right? So .... what we're saying is the rumour is the base price of NON MAJOR releases like Fatal Inertia etc will be 8190 yen - i'd hazard you'd be looking at 9280 yen for PS3 major releases.

 

[Servizio]

The first time Steam said I couldn't play HL2 because I was in offline mode, I wanted to punch someone in the nuts. Other than that, I rather like Steam.

I also think Sony would be mistaken for trying to implement this, just because it seems so easy to misunderstand it. How many people have said they won't be buying a PS3 because of this thread?

I like cheap games, Sony. That's all you need to know.