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[Flo_Evans]

what?

I buy new and don't sell my games, but I do lend out to friends alot. Trying to find a silver linning, perhaps a system could be put in place to monitor what friends have what games and if they are playing them. I have actually had one friend lend my games I lent to him to another person! (needless to say I don't let him borrow my shit anymore) I don't see this happening though, if they give you the ability to lend games to a friend for free, what is stopping you from selling it on ebay and then saying it is on loan? I also don't see how this can stop EB, they could still buy the game from you and sell it to someone else, the person who buys it just has to pay extra when they get home to 'activate' it. It may curb it somewhat and at least the publisher would get some cut of the sale (lowering EBs profit to where it may not be worth thier time anymore to stock used games possibly).

In the end I don't think this would effect me or my game buying much if at all, if I can be rewarded for buying new games at full retail price then great. If my friends can't borrow my games or have to pay a 'rental' fee to play them tough for them. I just don't see how they could sort out "this game is on loan" vs. "I sold this game" If I lend my friend a game for a week, then he pays to activate it, do I have to pay again to transfer it back? Or would it recognise that I am the original owner?

Like many people have said the online verifacation is the crux of the thing. Most people don't play online, so how would this affect them? If I sell my old game at a discount price (expecting a sony point kickback when the buyer activates it) what if that person never goes online with the game? There are just too many unknowns at this point. It all depends on how far they want to go (have to log into server and authenticate everytime to play anything?) which quite frankly scares the shit outta me. The worst part is this could lower online adoption rate, people would be scared to even plug the sucker into the net.

 

[Ghengis Cohen]

I loan my games out to my brother quite a bit. I have a huge game library and am constantly buying games, he doesn't because he has a kid. I do the same with books, movies etc. I would be pretty ****ed off if somehow I wasn't able to loan what is essentially my property (physical disk) to someone else.

 

[Flo_Evans]

dude I hear ya, but in the back of every game manual there is a little thing that says:

"You may not loan, sell, rent, lease, give, sub license, or otherwise transfer the software (or any copy)."

I have never heard of any publisher enforcing this, but it has always been there. It looks like sony want s to enforce it for better or for worse.

 

[DDayton]

dude I hear ya, but in the back of every game manual there is a little thing that says:
"You may not loan, sell, rent, lease, give, sub license, or otherwise transfer the software (or any copy)."
I have never heard of any publisher enforcing this, but it has always been there. It looks like sony want s to enforce it for better or for worse.

It doesn't hold up in court, though. Notice how game rental stores still rent games and major chains still resell them?

 

[ManaByte]

It doesn't hold up in court, though. Notice how game rental stores still rent games and major chains still resell them?

Has that ever been challenged in the US?

 

[RuGalz]

what?

How many people actually read through the actual patent? So far the implementation details are all speculations. The patent mentioned implementing a system where they encourage people sharing and resell games a couple times to enhance "word of mouth" effect. If they are truely going out of their way to stop people from sharing and reselling, they wouldn't have mentioned it.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Do you guys realize how easily the rental market problem can be solved, hypothetically of course? Press discs with special rental disc ID, sell those to rental store for premier price, those discs work just like current games, no registration, no ownership transfer. Nothing changes for us except now Sony/Publisher can finally dip into rental market profits like Hollywood did or whatever the current economy model is with rental stores.

Much easier, on those discs do not put any Unique ID Address and the system will be side-stepped.

 

[Panajev2001a]

I think that in the beginning, considering not everyone has an internet connection, Sony will go the non-authorization route and then, in 2012 or whenever everyone will be connected to the Matrix, will beging imposing this authorization stuff. That patent looks like a "long term invetiment" if you get what I mean. "We write this stuff down just to be sure we wont get sued in the future if someone comes up with the same idea and patents it". Like the Sony tilt functionality patent was when they submitted it few years ago. Also, I think Sony will introduce the whole system slowly, step by step, functionality after functionality, to just not confuse the users (and screw resellers) and gradually make them accustomed with this new model.

As u can see by some of the comments in this thread, many are scared of it. Rightly so. Imagine if it would be in place with authorizations and everything on day one. The whole gaming universe would go WTF. THAT would really kill and bury Sony 4ever.

Yes, I think we are on the same page now .

 

[RuGalz]

Much easier, on those discs do not put any Unique ID Address and the system will be side-stepped.

You would still press it with ID if you want to get some idea of how these discs are being used which would be rather cruicial for future improvements.

 

[DDayton]

Has that ever been challenged in the US?

Nintendo sued Blockbuster to stop them from renting games.

Nintendo lost.

 

[Andokuky]

If this crap becomes reality to hell with getting a PS3.

 

[TTP]

Man, Pana, look what you have done! Sony should sue you!

How many people actually read through the actual patent? So far the implementation details are all speculations. The patent mentioned implementing a system where they encourage people sharing and resell games a couple times to enhance "word of mouth" effect. If they are truely going out of their way to stop people from sharing and reselling, they wouldn't have mentioned it.

Amen.

 

[DCharlie]

If they are truely going out of their way to stop people from sharing and reselling, they wouldn't have mentioned it.

they aren't doing that for reselling, they are just stopping people from reselling as they want. The whole point is to take 2nd hand stores out of the equation and send a chunk of the fee back to the publishers/sony rather than just between gamers.

 

[mckmas8808]

I don't know what to think of this news.

 

[MidgarBlowedUp]

:lol So if by some satanic kutaragi ritual this all came true.

Someone decides to buy a PS3 for the bedroom and a PS3 for the living room.
+
That person buys one copy of MGS4.
=
:lol

I just wonder what kind of message is going to appear to let the person know he or she needs to purchase another copy of MGS4?

 

[Dr. Kitty Muffins]

Did the music industry ever try to kill off used record/casette/CD stores?

 

[Gherkin]

This will kill selling new old games to gamestop.

I can save 5 bucks on a used game that just came out, but if I end up paying SOny 5 or 10, what is the point?


If this move hurts the used game market for Gamestop, what is to stop them from pushing X360 that much harder down consumer's throats? Just a thought.

 

[Gherkin]

Did the music industry ever try to kill off used record/casette/CD stores?

Yup, Garth Brooks was the puppet behind that movement. People ended up holding bbq's grilling his CD's.

 

[mckmas8808]

:lol So if by some satanic kutaragi ritual this all came true.

Someone decides to buy a PS3 for the bedroom and a PS3 for the living room.
+
That person buys one copy of MGS4.
=
:lol

I just wonder what kind of message is going to appear to let the person know he or she needs to purchase another copy of MGS4?

Your laughing, but if Sony really does do this then they might loss a lifetime Playstation owner for life.

 

[Panajev2001a]

You would still press it with ID if you want to get some idea of how these discs are being used which would be rather cruicial for future improvements.

Sorry, I was thinking about this patent too much: in which if you had the Disc Unique ID Address you had to had the Disc Unique ID and then need authorization from the Host Server and if you did not have the Disc Unique ID Address then you would not need authorization.

 

[Pope Benedict XVI]

If this move hurts the used game market for Gamestop, what is to stop them from pushing X360 that much harder down consumer's throats? Just a thought.

Yeah, it's interesting that this is something that retailers would HATE while publishers would LOVE. I wonder how that would work out.

 

[RuGalz]

:lol So if by some satanic kutaragi ritual this all came true.

Someone decides to buy a PS3 for the bedroom and a PS3 for the living room.
+
That person buys one copy of MGS4.
=
:lol

I just wonder what kind of message is going to appear to let the person know he or she needs to purchase another copy of MGS4?

You log on to the network identify yourself or bring your memory card to the 2nd PS3 as described in the patent to authorize the usage. No need to buy 2nd copy of the game.

 

[Panajev2001a]

You log on to the network identify yourself or bring your memory card to the 2nd PS3 as described in the patent to authorize the usage. No need to buy 2nd copy of the game.

I guess they would let a single User ID to tie with more than 1 Console ID provided that they were to one day enforce this system. Would it be permanently or would it be a process done each time you log again on that system with your Memory Card ?
It would break what the patent spells as the kind of correspondence between Console/set ID and User ID: it is said in the patent that they are inter-changeable, but the patent was not even trying to cover the case we are mentioning so we can imagine that part of the patent being changed to make this case possible and easy to handle..

 

[Klocker]

The system only works if the person playing the game goes online, which is what 10-15% of total owners,

not for long XBL is already proving it will be closer to 50% this gen.

It's here to stay

 

[gofreak]

One at Beyond3D did some digging and found that a very similar if not identical patent was filed by the same guy at SCE back in 2001:

Apparatus and method for utilizing an incentive point system based on disc and user identification
http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph...ation&RS=TTL/Incentive+AND+TTL/Identification

Further, one thinks that this is DNAS (Dynamic Network Authentication System), already in use in some PS2 games like Socom and FFXI.

 

[Pug]

If Sony implements this it’s because they want a slice of the 2nd hand games market. GAME in the UK makes more from second hand games than they do from new ones per a unit. Publishers and developers have long since moaned that they don't get a slice of this and feel that they should. Sony implements this system may actually see of the 2nd games section for the PS3 die and won't necessarily mean increase sales of new games. Many 2nd hand games are more impulse buys.

 

[Panajev2001a]

One at Beyond3D did some digging and found that a very similar if not identical patent was filed by the same guy at SCE back in 2001:

The patent itself said that it takes advantage of previous work, no mystery:

[0001] This application is a continuation application and claims the priority benefit of U.S. patent application Ser. No. 09/894,182 filed Jun. 28, 2001, which claims the priority benefit of U.S. provisional patent application No. 60/270,235 filed Feb. 20, 2001. This application is related to U.S. patent application Ser. No. 09/894,793 filed Jun. 28, 2001. The disclosure of these applications is incorporated by reference. This application is also related to U.S. patent application Ser. No. 11/196,564 filed Aug. 2, 2005.

It is not like you needed to do that much digging .

I do not think it is simply an extension of DNAS or DNAS++, but surely their experience with that platform did help.

 

[gofreak]

The patent itself said that it takes advantage of previous work, no mystery:



It is not like you needed to do too much digging .

Sure, but how different is the 2005 filing? I haven't looked in depth myself, but some parts are word-for-word the same.

If they're (virtually) the same, knowing that I'd be hesitant to suggest a link with 'Entitlements', whatever they are, or with PS3. I mean, it could well end up being the case, but it would seem no more likely than, say, that other 2000 Kutaragi patent being relevant to PS3.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Sure, but how different is the 2005 filing? I haven't looked in depth myself, but some parts are word-for-word the same.

If they're (virtually) the same, knowing that I'd be hesitant to suggest a link with 'Entitlements', whatever they are, or with PS3. I mean, it could well end up being the case, but it would seem no more likely than, say, that other 2000 Kutaragi patent being relevant to PS3.

Well, the patent being filed mid 2001 is not something I'd see realized with only PlayStation 2 in mind: some could say that it was a patent that followed PlayStation 2 and we have previously seen patents being filed after a product was released, but I think ti would be an oversimplification.

DNAS and the online initiative on PlayStation 2 was IMHO just a taste of what they had in mind, like XBLA was for Xbox 1 in a way, and we also have to remember that in Japan only they were able to create a semi-decent BroadBand delivery/e-distribution method.

FFXI surely uses this. An example ? I had to change PS2's as my old one broke down. When I changed it and installed the old HDD on the new one FFXI asked me to re-install the game from scratch (format and install again) so it was quite clear that it knew that the console was not the same one.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Let me re-post something as I edited in that B3D post:

I do not think it is simply DNAS++, but surely their experience with that platform did help.

You do not think you can fully develop and release a relatively complex system such as this one in 1-2 years ?

Sometimes you do test bits and pieces before delivering your full technological solution IMHO.

It is also true that before PLAYSTATION 3 they could not offer a widespread (enabled on all consoles) and well defined centralized Network infrastructure. They are making a big deal of the PlayStation Network and how PLAYSTATION 3 and PSP will be the first devices taking advantages of it when it comes online.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Here is the result using the Linux utility diff:

1c1
< United States Patent Application 20020116206
---
> United States Patent Application 20060069752

3,4c3,4
< Chatani, Masayuki August 22, 2002
< Apparatus and method for utilizing an incentive point system based on disc and user identification
---
> Chatani; Masayuki March 30, 2006
> Incentivizing software sharing thru incentive points

8,9c8,9
< A system and method for awarding incentive points utilizing unique disc identification to provide access to disc storage media includes a disc storage medium with a permanently recorded disc identification, a user console with a set identification, a network, and a host server managing a user database and a disc database. Upon purchase of software stored on a disc storage medium, the unique disc identification and user identification are transmitted over the network from the user console to the host server. Permission to access the programs residing on the disc storage medium by the user console is obtained from the host server. The host server manages a point system. Points are awarded and recorded in point accounts stored in the databases.
< Inventors: Chatani, Masayuki; (Sunnyvale, CA)
---
> A method for incentivizing sharing of a software product through awarding incentive points utilizing unique identifiers including removable storage identification, user console identification and user identification. The granting of access permissions and the awarding of incentive points are facilitated through a host server.
> Inventors: Chatani; Masayuki; (Sunnyvale, CA)

13,14c13
< 2225 EAST BAYSHORE ROAD
< SUITE 200
---
> 2200 GENG ROAD

20,80c19
< Serial No.: 894182
< Series Code: 09
< Filed: June 28, 2001
<
< U.S. Current Class: 705/1
< U.S. Class at Publication: 705/1
< Intern'l Class: G06F 017/60
< Claims
<
<
< What is claimed is:
<
< 1. A system for use in a network, comprising: a user console; a disc storage medium including a permanently recorded disc identification, the disc storage medium being readable by the user console, wherein the user console is operable to transmit the disc identification over the network; and a host server in the network, the host server being configured to receive the disc identification and configured to assign points to a point account associated with the disc identification.
<
< 2. The system of claim 1, wherein the user console includes a set identification that uniquely identifies the user console.
<
< 3. The system of claim 1, wherein the user console includes a user identification that identifies a user of the user console.
<
< 4. The system of claim 3, further comprising a user database accessible by the host server, the user database including a user table associated with the user identification, the user table including the point account, the point account being further associated with the user identification.
<
< 5. The system of claim 2, further comprising a user database accessible by the host server, the user database including a user table associated with the set identification, the user table including the point account, the point account being further associated with the set identification.
<
< 6. The system of claim 4, wherein the user console transmits the disc identification and the user identification to the host server for authorization to execute software residing on the disc storage medium.
<
< 7. The system of claim 5, wherein the user console transmits the disc identification and the set identification to the host server for authorization to execute software residing on the disc storage medium.
<
< 8. The system of claim 6, wherein the host server compares the disc identification to a plurality of disc identifications stored in the user table associated with the user identification, and compares the disc identification with a plurality of disc identifications stored in other user tables associated with other user identifications.
<
< 9. The system of claim 8, wherein if the disc identification matches one of the plurality of disc identifications stored in the user table associated with the user identification, the host server transmits to the user console an access permission signal that authorizes execution of software stored on the disc storage medium, assigns points to the point account of user table associated with the disc identification and the user identification, and transmits point information to the user console.
<
< 10. The system of claim 8, wherein if the disc identification matches one of the plurality of disc identifications stored in the other user tables associated with other user identifications, and if the matched other user table indicates owner consent, the host server transmits to the user console an access permission signal that authorizes execution of software stored on the disc storage medium, assigns points to the point account of the other user table associated with the disc identification and the other user identification, and transmits point information to the user console.
<
< 11. The system of claim 10, wherein the host server assigns points to a point account of the user table associated with the user identification.
<
< 12. The system of claim 8, wherein if the disc identification matches one of the plurality of disc identifications stored in the other user tables associated with other user identifications, and if the matched other user table does not indicate owner consent, the host server transmits an access refusal signal to the user console whereby the user console cannot execute software residing on the disc storage medium.
<
< 13. The system of claim 8, wherein if the disc identification does not match any disc identifications stored in any user table, the host server transmits to the user console an access permission signal to execute software residing on the disc storage medium, assigns points to the point account of user table associated with the user identification, and transmits point information to the user console.
<
< 14. The system of claim 13, wherein the host server records the disc identification to the user table associated with the user identification.
<
< 15. The system of claim 8, further comprising a disc database accessible by the host server, the disc database including a disc table that includes owner consent data and a sub-account associated with the disc identification, the sub-account including point data associated with the disc identification and the owner consent data including access permission data for other users.
<
< 16. The system of claim 15, wherein if the disc identification matches one of the plurality of disc identifications stored in the user table associated with the user identification, the host server transmits to the user console an access permission signal that authorizes execution of software stored on the disc storage medium, assigns points to the sub-account of disc table associated with the disc identification, and transmits point information to the user console.
<
< 17. The system of claim 15, wherein if the disc identification matches one of the plurality of disc identifications stored in the other user tables associated with other user identifications, and if the matched other user table indicates owner consent, the host server transmits to the user console an access permission signal that authorizes execution of software stored on the disc storage medium, assigns points to the sub-account of the disc table associated with the disc identification, and transmits point information to the user console.
<
< 18. The system of claim 17, wherein the host server assigns points to a point account of the user table associated with the user identification.
<
< 19. The system of claim 15, wherein if the disc identification matches one of the plurality of disc identifications stored in the other user tables associated with other user identifications, and if the matched other user table does not indicate owner consent, the host server transmits an access refusal signal to the user console whereby the user console cannot execute software residing on the disc storage medium.
<
< 20. The system of claim 15, wherein if the disc identification does not match any disc identifications stored in any user table, the host server transmits to the user console an access permission signal to execute software residing on the disc storage medium and transmits point information to the user console.
<
< 21. The system of claim 20, wherein the host server records the disc identification to the disc table.
<
< 22. The system of claim 21, wherein the host server assigns points to the sub-account of the disc table associated with the disc identification.
<
< 23. The system of claim 8, further comprising a plurality of publisher servers accessible by the host server, the publisher servers being configured to manage a plurality of publisher databases, wherein each of the publisher databases includes sub-accounts managed by one of the publisher servers.
<
< 24. The system of claim 23, wherein if the disc identification matches one of the plurality of disc identifications stored in the user table associated with the user identification, the host server transmits to the user console an access permission signal that authorizes execution of software stored on the disc storage medium and transmits point information to the user console, and the publisher server of the publisher database associated with the disc identification assigns points to the sub-account of the publisher database associated with the disc identification.
<
< 25. The system of claim 23, wherein if the disc identification matches one of the plurality of disc identifications stored in the other user tables associated with other user identifications, and if the matched other user table indicates owner consent, the host server transmits to the user console an access permission signal that authorizes execution of software stored on the disc storage medium and transmits point information to the user console, and the publisher server of the publisher database associated with the disc identification assigns points to the sub-account of the publisher database associated with the disc identification.
---
> Assignee Name and Adress: Sony Computer Entertainment America Inc.

82,134c21,28
< 26. The system of claim 25, wherein the host server assigns points to a point account of the user table associated with the user identification.
<
< 27. The system of claim 23, wherein if the disc identification matches one of the plurality of disc identifications stored in the other user tables associated with other user identifications, and if the matched other user table does not indicate owner consent, the host server transmits an access refusal signal to the user console whereby the user console cannot execute software residing on the disc storage medium.
<
< 28. The system of claim 23, wherein if the disc identification does not match any disc identifications stored in any user table, the host server transmits to the user console an access permission signal to execute software residing on the disc storage medium and transmits point information to the user console.
<
< 29. The system of claim 28, wherein the publisher server of the publisher database associated with the disc storage medium identified by the disc identification records, the disc identification to the publisher database associated with the disc storage medium identified by the disc identification.
<
< 30. The system of claim 29, wherein the publisher server of the publisher database associated with the disc identification assigns points to the sub-account of the publisher database associated with the disc identification.
<
< 31. A method for awarding points to users, comprising the steps of: transmitting a disc identification stored on a disc storage medium to a host server; transmitting a user identification to the host server; and comparing the transmitted disc identification to stored disc identifications.
<
< 32. The method of claim 31, wherein points are added to a user table associated with the user identification if the transmitted disc identification matches a disc identification stored in the user table associated with the user identification.
<
< 33. The method of claim 31, wherein points are added to an other user table associated with an other user identification if the transmitted disc identification matches a disc identification stored in the other user table associated with the other user identification and if the other user table grants owner consent.
<
< 34. The method of claim 33, wherein points are added to the user table associated with the user identification.
<
< 35. The method of claim 31, wherein points are added to a user table associated with the user identification if the transmitted disc identification does not match any stored disc identifications in any user tables.
<
< 36. The method of claim 35, further comprising the step of recording the transmitted disc identification to the user table associated with the user identification.
<
< 37. The method of claim 31, wherein points are added to a disc table associated with the stored disc identification if the transmitted disc identification matches the stored disc identification in the user table.
<
< 38. The method of claim 31, wherein if the transmitted disc identification matches a stored disc identification in an other user table and if the other user table grants owner consent, points are added to a disc table associated with the stored disc identification.
<
< 39. The method of claim 38, wherein points are added to the user table associated with the user identification.
<
< 40. The method of claim 31, further comprising the step of recording the transmitted disc identification to a disc table if the transmitted disc identification does not match any stored disc identifications in any user tables.
<
< 41. The method of claim 40, wherein points are added to the disc table associated with the disc identification.
<
< 42. The method of claim 31, wherein if the transmitted disc identification matches a stored disc identification in the user table, points are added to a publisher database associated with the stored disc identification.
<
< 43. The method of claim 31, wherein if the transmitted disc identification matches a stored disc identification in an other user table and if the other user table grants owner consent, points are added to a publisher database associated with the stored disc identification.
<
< 44. The method of claim 43, wherein points are added to the user table associated with the user identification.
<
< 45. The method of claim 31, further comprising the step of recording the transmitted disc identification to a publisher database associated with the disc storage medium identified by the transmitted disc identification if the transmitted disc identification does not match any stored disc identifications in any user tables.
<
< 46. The method of claim 45, wherein points are added to the publisher database associated with the transmitted disc identification.
<
< 47. A system for managing a point scheme, comprising: a network; a content identified by a content identification; and a host server being configured to receive the content identification from the network and configured to assign points to a point account associated with the content identification.
<
< 48. The system of claim 47, further comprising a user database accessible by the host server, the user database including a user table associated with a user identification, the user table including the point account, the point account being further associated with the user identification.
<
< 49. The system of claim 48, wherein the host server receives the content identification and the user identification for authorization to access the content identified by the content identification.
<
< 50. The system of claim 49, wherein the host server compares the content identification to a plurality of content identifications stored in the user table associated with the user identification, and compares the content identification with a plurality of content identifications stored in other user tables associated with other user identifications.
<
< 51. The system of claim 50, wherein if the content identification matches one of the plurality of content identifications stored in the user table associated with the user identification, the host server transmits an access permission signal to the user that authorizes access to the content, assigns points to the point account of the user table associated with the content identification and the user identification, and transmits point information to the user.
<
< 52. The system of claim 50, wherein if the content identification matches one of the plurality of content identifications stored in the other user tables associated with other user identifications, and if the matched other user table indicates owner consent, the host server transmits to the user an access permission signal that authorizes access to the content, assigns points to the point account of the other user table associated with the content identification and the other user identification, and transmits point information to the user.
---
> Serial No.: 271124
> Series Code: 11
> Filed: November 9, 2005
>
> U.S. Current Class: 709/219
> U.S. Class at Publication: 709/219
> Intern'l Class: G06F 15/16 20060101 G06F015/16
> Claims

136d29
< 53. The system of claim 52, wherein the host server assigns points to the point account of the user table associated with the user identification.

138c31
< 54. The system of claim 50, wherein if the content identification matches one of the plurality of content identifications stored in the other user tables associated with other user identifications, and if the matched other user table does not indicate owner consent, the host server transmits an access refusal signal to the user whereby the user cannot access the content.
---
> 1. A method to incentivize sharing of a software product residing on a removable storage medium, comprising: reading a storage medium identifier from the removable storage medium at a user console; transmitting the storage medium identifier from the user console to a server; transmitting a user console identifier associated with the user console to the server; identifying a user account associated with the storage medium identifier; and assigning incentive points to the user account associated with the storage medium identifier.

140c33
< 55. The system of claim 50, wherein if the content identification does not match any content identifications stored in any user table, the host server transmits to the user an access permission signal to access the content, assigns points to the point account of the user table associated with the user identification, and transmits point information to the user.
---
> 2. The method of claim 1, wherein the user account is further associated with an original user of the removable storage medium.

142c35
< 56. The system of claim 55, wherein the host server records the content identification to the user table associated with the user identification.
---
> 3. The method of claim 1, wherein the user account is further associated with a subsequent user of the removable storage medium.

144c37
< 57. The system of claim 50, further comprising a disc database accessible by the host server, the disc database including a disc table that includes owner consent data and a sub-account associated with the content identification, the sub-account including point data associated with the content identification and the owner consent data including access permission data for other users.
---
> 4. The method of claim 1, wherein the user account comprises owner consent data for at least one subsequent user of the removable storage medium.

146c39
< 58. The system of claim 57, wherein if the content identification matches one of the plurality of content identifications stored in the user table associated with the user identification, the host server transmits to the user an access permission signal that authorizes access to the content, assigns points to the sub-account of the disc table associated with the content identification, and transmits point information to the user.
---
> 5. The method of claim 4, further comprising determining whether the storage medium identifier and the user console identifier match the owner consent data for the at least one subsequent user of the removable storage medium.

148c41
< 59. The system of claim 57, wherein if the content identification matches one of the plurality of content identifications stored in the other user tables associated with other user identifications, and if the matched other user table indicates owner consent, the host server transmits to the user an access permission signal that authorizes access to the content, assigns points to the sub-account of the disc table associated with the content identification, and transmits point information to the user.
---
> 6. The method of claim 5, wherein if the storage medium identifier and the user console identifier do not match the owner consent data for the at least one subsequent user of the removable storage medium, transmitting from the server an access refusal signal to the user console, the access refusal signal preventing execution of the software product residing on the removable storage medium.

150c43
< 60. The system of claim 59, wherein the host server assigns points to the point account of the user table associated with the user identification.
---
> 7. The method of claim 5, wherein if the storage medium identifier and the user console identifier match the owner consent data for the at least one subsequent user of the removable storage medium, transmitting from the server an access permission signal to the user console, the access permission signal allowing for the execution of the software product residing on the removable storage medium.

152c45
< 61. The system of claim 57, wherein if the content identification matches one of the plurality of content identifications stored in the other user tables associated with other user identifications, and if the matched other user table does not indicate owner consent, the host server transmits an access refusal signal to the user whereby the user cannot access the content.
---
> 8. The method of claim 1, wherein a publishing server is associated with the storage medium identifier.

154c47
< 62. The system of claim 57, wherein if the content identification does not match any content identifications stored in any user table, the host server transmits to the user an access permission signal to access the content and transmits point information to the user.
---
> 9. The method of claim 8, further comprising assigning the incentive points to the user account from the publishing server.

156c49
< 63. The system of claim 62, wherein the host server records the content identification to the disc table.
---
> 10. A method to incentivize sharing of a software product residing on a removable storage medium, comprising: reading a storage medium identifier from a removable storage medium at a user console; transmitting the storage medium identifier from the user console to a server; transmitting a user identifier to the server; identifying a user account associated with the storage medium identifier; and assigning incentive points to the user account associated with the storage medium identifier.

158c51
< 64. The system of claim 63, wherein the host server assigns points to the sub-account of the disc table associated with the content identification.
---
> 11. The method of claim 10, wherein the user identifier is associated with a user of the removable storage medium.

160c53
< 65. The system of claim 50, further comprising a plurality of publisher servers accessible by the host server, the publisher servers being configured to manage a plurality of publisher databases, wherein each of the publisher databases includes sub-accounts managed by one of the publisher servers.
---
> 12. The method of claim 10, wherein the user identifier is associated with a user of the user console.

162c55
< 66. The system of claim 65, wherein if the content identification matches one of the plurality of content identifications stored in the user table associated with the user identification, the host server transmits to the user an access permission signal that authorizes access to the content and transmits point information to the user, and the publisher server of the publisher database associated with the content identification assigns points to the sub-account of the publisher database associated with the content identification.
---
> 13. The method of claim 10, wherein the user account comprises owner consent data for at least one subsequent user of the removable storage medium.

164c57
< 67. The system of claim 65, wherein if the content identification matches one of the plurality of content identifications stored in the other user tables associated with other user identifications, and if the matched other user table indicates owner consent, the host server transmits to the user an access permission signal that authorizes access to the content and transmits point information to the user, and the publisher server of the publisher database associated with the content identification assigns points to the sub-account of the publisher database associated with the content identification.
---
> 14. The method of claim 13, further comprising determining whether the storage medium identifier and the user identifier match the owner consent data for the at least one subsequent user of the removable storage medium.

166c59
< 68. The system of claim 67, wherein the host server assigns points to the point account of the user table associated with the user identification.
---
> 15. The method of claim 14, wherein if the storage medium identifier and the user identifier do not match the owner consent data for the at least one subsequent user of the removable storage medium, transmitting from the server an access refusal signal to the user console, the access refusal signal preventing execution of the software product residing on the removable storage medium.

168c61
< 69. The system of claim 65, wherein if the content identification matches one of the plurality of content identifications stored in the other user tables associated with other user identifications, and if the matched other user table does not indicate owner consent, the host server transmits an access refusal signal to the user whereby the user cannot access the content.
---
> 16. The method of claim 14, wherein if the storage medium identifier and the user identifier match the owner consent data for the at least one subsequent user of the removable storage medium, transmitting from the server an access permission signal to the user console, the access permission signal allowing for the execution of the software product residing on the removable storage medium.

170c63
< 70. The system of claim 65, wherein if the content identification does not match any content identifications stored in any user table, the host server transmits to the user an access permission signal to access the content and transmits point information to the user.
---
> 17. A machine readable medium having stored thereon instructions for executing a method to incentivize sharing of a software product residing on a removable storage medium, the method comprising: receiving a storage medium identifier read from the removable storage medium at a user console; receiving a user console identifier associated with the user console; identifying a user account associated with the storage medium identifier; and assigning incentive points to the user account associated with the storage medium identifier.

172c65
< 71. The system of claim 70, wherein a publisher server of a publisher database associated with the content identified by the content identification records the content identification to the publisher database.
---
> 18. The machine readable medium of claim 17, further comprising determining whether the storage medium identifier and the user console identifier match owner consent data for at least one subsequent user of the storage medium.

174c67
< 72. The system of claim 71, wherein the publisher server of the publisher database associated with the content identification assigns points to the sub-account of the publisher database associated with the content identification.
---
> 19. The machine readable medium of claim 18, further comprising transmitting an access refusal signal to the user console if the storage medium identifier and the user console identifier do not match the owner consent data for the at least one subsequent user of the removable storage medium.

176c69
< 73. A method for managing a point scheme, comprising the steps of: a host server receiving a content identification of a content and a user identification of a user from a network; comparing the received content identification to stored content identifications; authorizing access to the content identified by the content identification; and awarding points to point accounts associated with user identifications and the received content identification.
---
> 20. The machine readable medium of claim 18, further comprising transmitting an access permission signal to the user console if the storage medium identifier and the user console identifier match the owner consent data for the at least one subsequent user of the removable storage medium.

182c75
< [0001] This application is related to, and claims the benefit of, U.S. Provisional Patent Application No. 60/270,235, entitled "Apparatus and Method for Utilizing an Incentive Point System Based on Disc and User Identification," filed Feb. 20, 2001. This application is also related to U.S. patent application Ser. No. ______, entitled "System and Method for Transfer of Disc Ownership Based on Disc and User Identification," filed on ______. The subject matter of the related applications is hereby incorporated by reference. The related applications are commonly assigned.
---
> [0001] This application is a continuation application and claims the priority benefit of U.S. patent application Ser. No. 09/894,182 filed Jun. 28, 2001, which claims the priority benefit of U.S. provisional patent application No. 60/270,235 filed Feb. 20, 2001. This application is related to U.S. patent application Ser. No. 09/894,793 filed Jun. 28, 2001. The disclosure of these applications is incorporated by reference. This application is also related to U.S. patent application Ser. No. 11/196,564 filed Aug. 2, 2005.

224c117
< DETAILED DESCRIPTION OF THE PREFERRED EMBODIMENT
---
> DETAILED DESCRIPTION

 

[gofreak]

Well, the patent being filed mid 2001 is not something I'd see realized with only PlayStation 2 in mind.

Sure, and it may not be. But I think the links become slightly more tenuous with age. New thinking based on experience or the market may shift people's ideas. But I also think we should heed caution in terms of how we treat patents. They're supposed to cover lots of bases, beyond even what the inventor intends to use an invention for, just to cover their asses and increase the potential for others to fall under their patent.

This doesn't mean that Sony won't go on to implement such a patent's ideas in full, or even belatedly..but I do think these things should have been highlighted in the article. I don't know about everyone else, but I'm looking at it all slightly differently than I did when it was first presented.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Sure, and it may not be. But I think the links become slightly more tenuous with age. New thinking based on experience or the market may shift people's ideas. But I also think we should heed caution in terms of how we treat patents. They're supposed to cover lots of bases, beyond even what the inventor intends to use an invention for, just to cover their asses and increase the potential for others to fall under their patent.

This doesn't mean that Sony won't go on to implement such a patent's ideas in full, or even belatedly..but I do think these things should have been highlighted in the article. I don't know about everyone else, but I'm looking at it all slightly differently than I did when it was first presented.

I thought I did mention that the patent was follow-up of another patent either in the article or in the post that linked ot the article.

Even without the older patent tough, one could still debate whether a 2005 filed patent relate at all to PLAYSTATION 3 and the PlayStation Network... I think it has some bearings.

It is true that patents are written most of the times to grab as much land as possible, but this patent seem to cover a single idea and try to work on it limiting to say "hey this is not EVERYTHING that the patent can cover".

I think this is a long-term plan.

I'll see what can be done though: if the article must be edited or not.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Gofreak:

(Note: it has yet to be granted, but it is the latest evolution of some other patents that Sony Computer has filed in the past few years).

First page of the article .

Edit: Still, I agree that some mention of the DNAS system could have been made, maybe with the FFXI example.

 

[RuGalz]

I guess they would let a single User ID to tie with more than 1 Console ID provided that they were to one day enforce this system. Would it be permanently or would it be a process done each time you log again on that system with your Memory Card ?
It would break what the patent spells as the kind of correspondence between Console/set ID and User ID: it is said in the patent that they are inter-changeable, but the patent was not even trying to cover the case we are mentioning so we can imagine that part of the patent being changed to make this case possible and easy to handle..

[0031] The FIG. 5 embodiment shows two paths to gain access permission to the disc 110. If a memory card is not present in user console 115, then the DISC UNIQUE ID 230 and USER ID will be sent to the host server 130 every time the disc 110 is booted. If a memory card is present, then the DISC UNIQUE ID 230 and USER ID is only sent to the host server 130 the first time a user boots the disc 110. When the same user boots the disc 110 on subsequent occasions, host server 130 access is not needed to access the disc 110. Instead of sending the USER ID and DISC UNIQUE ID 230 to the host server 130 for access confirmation, the USER ID and DISC UNIQUE ID 230 stored on the memory card are used to confirm or deny access to the disc 110.

not for long XBL is already proving it will be closer to 50% this gen.

It's here to stay

X360 also hasn't reach something like 50m sales yet. Certainly the people adapting it sooner are the ones that're more likely to go online than the average joe. It's here to stay and it'll grow, there's no question about it; so is DRM.

 

[gofreak]

I thought I did mention that the patent was follow-up of another patent either in the article or in the post that linked ot the article.

Even without the older patent tough, one could still debate whether a 2005 filed patent relate at all to PLAYSTATION 3 and the PlayStation Network... I think it has some bearings.

It is true that patents are written most of the times to grab as much land as possible, but this patent seem to cover a single idea and try to work on it limiting to say "hey this is not EVERYTHING that the patent can cover".

I think this is a long-term plan.

I wouldn't assume that. Already, if what you've heard and reported in the other thread is true, the implementation being considered differs significantly from the embodiment discussed in this patent (even if it could leverage similar technology with unique disc ids etc.). Doesn't mean elements of this patent won't pop up again, I'd just be cautious about taking it as is

Longer term we know were things are probably going, for better or worse, and that'll make disc-based systems like this of marginal concern.

 

[Kintaro]

So, not only do I need to worry bout PS3 being $500-600, I have to worry bout all this junk too? No thanks.

You try to cut down the second hand market/rental, and you will drastically cut down your userbase across the lifespan of your hardware. Less owners = less buyers = less money for pubs/devs = same whiny bullshit.

Really, thing companies need to realize is that people can definitely find more and better ways to spend their money than on ****in' video games. Why would you want to test that by implementing this junk?

 

[snatches]

Pretty much.


Dear Sony,

Whatever I do with my game that I have purchased is NONE OF YOUR ****ING BUSINESS.

Sincerely,

~Dragona

PS: You better can this idea, chumps.

^^^^^


Companies that have spent years building up large scale corporate partnerships with Sony will be absolutely outraged. The rental market would be absolutely destroyed, eliminating a large amount of software sales. Do you know how many copies of Madden Blockbuster buys for release? They have over 1000 stores in NA. That is just one chain. Not to mention how this would effectively destroy the bottom line for game-centric retailers. Places like EB and Gamestop only exist due to trade in and used game programs.

You might as well hand the business over to Walmart and Best Buy and call it a day. But I especially like Dragona's point in BOLD above. The second I buy a game the buck should stop. And I thought DLC on XBL offended my sensibilities.

Let's hope this is just a patent to ensure they own this if they could ever make it happen. My guess is retailer politics and moneyhats will ensure this never comes to pass. Now, on the other hand, when games are all sold via download, this system not only makes sense but is an admirable way to promote word of mouth type advertising. When games are all downloaded, all the above retailers will have been screwed out of their business anyway, so who cares.

 

[Panajev2001a]

[0031] The FIG. 5 embodiment shows two paths to gain access permission to the disc 110. If a memory card is not present in user console 115, then the DISC UNIQUE ID 230 and USER ID will be sent to the host server 130 every time the disc 110 is booted. If a memory card is present, then the DISC UNIQUE ID 230 and USER ID is only sent to the host server 130 the first time a user boots the disc 110. When the same user boots the disc 110 on subsequent occasions, host server 130 access is not needed to access the disc 110. Instead of sending the USER ID and DISC UNIQUE ID 230 to the host server 130 for access confirmation, the USER ID and DISC UNIQUE ID 230 stored on the memory card are used to.

[0031] The FIG. 5 embodiment shows two paths to gain access permission to the disc 110. If a memory card is not present in user console 115, then the DISC UNIQUE ID 230 and USER ID will be sent to the host server 130 every time the disc 110 is booted. If a memory card is present, then the DISC UNIQUE ID 230 and USER ID is only sent to the host server 130 the first time a user boots the disc 110. When the same user boots the disc 110 on subsequent occasions, host server 130 access is not needed to access the disc 110. Instead of sending the USER ID and DISC UNIQUE ID 230 to the host server 130 for access confirmation, the USER ID and DISC UNIQUE ID 230 stored on the memory card are used to confirm or deny access to the disc 110.

Just to be anal , the patent here does not explicitly make the case for the console not being the same as the console used to authenticate the game disc when it talks about reading the data from the Memory Card.
Is "When the same user boots the disc 110 on subsequent occasions, host server 130 access is not needed to access the disc 110." enough to say that it would work, in the way we are mentioning here, if the same user used the same Memory Card on a different console.

However, the set ID 120 may be used instead of the USER ID to identify users.

It says "MAY" so we go bakc to the post I made before.

In the end though I agree with you, allowing you to play your game on a different console by simply asking you to carry your game and the related authorization information stored in your Memory Card and use it on the console you intend to play the game on makes the most sense. It is allso the most practical thing to do.

As I said, I wanted to be a bit anal over there, but I do think you made a very valid point I agree with.

 

[Panajev2001a]

I wouldn't assume that. Already, if what you've heard and reported in the other thread is true, the implementation being considered differs significantly from the embodiment discussed in this patent

Gofreak, you were not thinking that anyone was planning this to go live in full effect considering:

1.) the only thing they have "market-tested" is DNAS.

2.) potential marketing backlash.

3.) example: LIVE/Rome was not built in a day.

Edit:

(even if it could leverage similar technology with unique disc ids etc.)

Gofreak, as you and One thought of DNAS when you read this patent and its predecessor, well that is an example (think of FFXI as we did earlier) of how technology pieces talked about in this patent have already been used.

 

[Aurora]

Yea... this is an awful idea.

 

[gofreak]

Gofreak, you were not thinking that anyone was planning this to go live in full effect considering:

1.) the only thing they have "market-tested" is DNAS.

2.) potential marketing backlash.

3.) example: LIVE/Rome was not built in a day.

Edit:



Gofreak, as you and One thought of DNAS when you read this patent and its predecessor, well that is an example (think of FFXI as we did earlier) of how technology pieces talked about in this patent have already been used.

That's true. I'm just saying that I wouldn't necessarily use the patent as a strict roadmap for the future. If what you report re. online gaming costs for second hand users etc. is true, for example, that'd be one instance where the real embodiment of such technology diverges from what the patent outlines (I think..I haven't read the whole thing, but I don't believe the idea of using such tech to charge second hand users for online gaming was part of the description).

 

[bengraven]

I just wanted to make sure people saw this...

 

[jetjevons]

Companies that have spent years building up large scale corporate partnerships with Sony will be absolutely outraged. The rental market would be absolutely destroyed, eliminating a large amount of software sales. Do you know how many copies of Madden Blockbuster buys for release? They have over 1000 stores in NA.

Perhaps they could create more expensive "rental" versions of the games. Remember back in the day when a rental VHS tape cost like 80-100 bucks.

You know, honestly, I think this is a really smart move on Sony's part (if it's true). Forcing gamers to give them a piece of pre-played game sales could increase their profits exponentially. I sure hope they share that profit with publishers of the game as well. It will go a long way towards lowering game prices.

 

[Mrbob]

Perhaps they could create more expensive "rental" versions of the games. Remember back in the day when a rental VHS tape cost like 80-100 bucks.

You know, honestly, I think this is a really smart move on Sony's part (if it's true). Forcing gamers to give them a piece of pre-played game sales could increase their profits exponentially. I sure hope they share that profit with publishers of the game as well. It will go a long way towards lowering game prices.

I really hope it does help drive down game prices. But somehow I doubt it'll happen.

 

[bengraven]

Perhaps they could create more expensive "rental" versions of the games. Remember back in the day when a rental VHS tape cost like 80-100 bucks.

You know, honestly, I think this is a really smart move on Sony's part (if it's true). Forcing gamers to give them a piece of pre-played game sales could increase their profits exponentially. I sure hope they share that profit with publishers of the game as well. It will go a long way towards lowering game prices.

But that's the problem. Sony hates the rental market.

 

[meppi]

Whatever system ends up implementing these techniques, I can say one thing: I will not buy or support it in any way, ever.

This is just too ****ed up for words.

 

[jetjevons]

I don't think it's that big a deal. In the end, if Gamestop/EB want to sell used games, they will just have to factor in the price of the user having to buy an entitlement. Rather than paying $30 for the game you'll pay $25 to EB and $5 to Sony (or whatever).

I DO hope there is some sort of rental/lending system in place however.

 

[Mmmkay]

I don't think it's that big a deal. In the end, if Gamestop/EB want to sell used games, they will just have to factor in the price of the user having to buy an entitlement. Rather than paying $30 for the game you'll pay $25 to EB and $5 to Sony (or whatever).

I DO hope there is some sort of rental/lending system in place however.

I expressed my doubts about this in the other thread. For this service to actually know whether a game is new or used, it relies entirely on a 100% online enabled community. With a significant proportion of users not even connecting their consoles to the internet (which will be at least 40%, and increasing in the long term), there will be many titles found in used games stores which not been registered to an owner. I could conceivably pick up two identically priced titles from the store, and find that one is costing me $4.99 extra when I get home.

The only way stores would be able to lower their prices is if they took every single title sent in and played them in a PS3 unit to either check their registration status, or register it to the in-store PS3. Not being terribly aware of the retail space, is it practical to vet every title that comes in? I thought the most they did was inspect the disc surface for scratches.

Well, this is from the perspective of the online component being what is used to determine ownership, I should say... I'm sort of merging the two threads together here, sorry!

 

[jetjevons]

The only way stores would be able to lower their prices is if they took every single title sent in and played them in a PS3 unit to either check their registration status, or register it to the in-store PS3. Not being terribly aware of the retail space, is it practical to vet every title that comes in? I thought the most they did was inspect the disc surface for scratches.

Yep. Stores are going to have to check. I really don't feel too bad for them. Since I work in the biz I understand the neccessary reality which is: the more money that goes back to publishers, the better.

Also I have a feeling that all these restrictions will only apply to the online portions of games (multiplayer, downloads, etc). I suspect you'll be able to play offline just fine with a used game, even if you are connected to the internet.