Prince Vultan
Banned
That rumour has been floating around for the better part of a year now at least. Think it started with some job listings at GG.
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New build of Killzone Shadow Fall shows improvements
- Thread starter SniperHunter
- Start date
That rumour has been floating around for the better part of a year now at least. Think it started with some job listings at GG.
Yup. Innovation and revolutionizing are entirely different things. However, an innovation can be revolutionary but that's rarely the case. Shadow Fall is in fact innovative. It takes the zip lining from Just Cause 2 and applies it to the FPS genre. It's also the only FPS that has a cover system.
NTIETS13A_Superiority
Banned
Okey. THAT LOOKED AWESOME! Hype went from 1 to 100. Graphix also seem much improved.
MAG did 256 players about as poorly as possible though, hardware just wasnt ready, and BF4 is far more ambitious in so so many ways.
But I do agree with you the KZ is moving the fps ahead in a specific direction and its certainly not stale..at least no staler than any other fps coming out.
Id love to know what people would consider a real evolution in fps games? titanfall looks like everything else but with a double jump and a sticky mechanic on walls, but its still dudes with guns, and the titans are just bigger dudes with guns...I mean its all just "infantry fighting other infantry"...thats the genre, its why COD celebrates how stale it is, its like saying baseball is boring lets add 2 more bases and put hurdles on the base paths...if you think that would make baseball better, guess what, you dont like baseball...if people think fps's need a crazy new angle and ninja swords and magic(???) then guess what, you dont like fps's.
I dont like MOBAs or MMOs or RPGs, but I dont go into those threads and complain about them.
sorry...rant over.
That has been around for a couple of years now but I think people should tone their expectations down a bit. The word "RPG" is so nebulous now that it probably means action game instead of actual RPG. This is Guerrilla after all, they don't have any background with real RPGs and I'm not familiar with too many instances of a major studio who didn't start off with RPGs diving into the genre.
It's their second team that is working an an RPG, but that's a new IP.
SniperHunter
Banned
Naughty Dog didn't have any experience with third person adventure games either, eventually they made Uncharted 2 and The Last of Us
Bungie had no experience with first person shooter and their first FPS was Halo
...
You gotta start somewhere.
gift of 100 gab
Member
Marathon?
Dictator93
Member
That thing about halo is not correct. One of their first games was marathon. A mildly successful but pretty good fps.
SniperHunter
Banned
oh yea totally forgot about Marathon. XD But there are plenty of other examples.
RPGs are a lot more complex than most genres. Or they used to be anyway.
They need great writing and storytelling too and that's something Guerrilla has consistently failed at in the Killzone games despite that universe having a pretty deep and interesting lore. Like Halo they just don't bother putting any of that interesting stuff into the games themselves. That won't cut it in a RPG.
Chuck Norris
Banned
Where? At least time stamp the video, jeez
That stuff isn't in those games because it shouldn't be basically.
I had an interesting conversation with someone involved in developing the Killzone universe a couple of years back, and the work that went into it is pretty impressive. But obviously that stuff just doesn't have a place in an eight hour shooter.
You have to give them a chance to present a universe in the context of a genre where world building actually surfaces to know if they've got the chops for it.
SniperHunter
Banned
Yea the previous two KZ games on PS3 had horrible stories and characters. They seemed to have fixed that with Shadow Fall (at least the characters seem interesting and aren't dropping f bombs every two seconds)
It seems they have a good writer who wrote the backstory for the Killzone universe.
I think they have hire the right people and make a good RPG. Maybe a light RPG like Mass Effect. Whatever they are working on, they said it is a radical departure from Killzone, so it isn't a FPS. I doubt it will be a third person shooter either, since Sony has three of them now (TLOU, Uncharted and The Order 1886)
Dr. Kitty Muffins
Member
I love how the game looks now but I didn't notice any screen tearing. I hope they remove the tearing as that is probably the worst thing ever in a game.
GribbleGrunger
Dreams in Digital
This is stunning but I need them just to tone that sun flare down a tad.
TrojanBlade
Member
Looks really amazing.
I have one wish: I hope someday we have a FPS akin to dark souls/ demons soul games. Just as punishing and rewarding. Not like the FPS we have these days which are predictable and mostly very easy. I know not everyone would like that but we need to have more variety in FPS genre.
I have one wish: I hope someday we have a FPS akin to dark souls/ demons soul games. Just as punishing and rewarding. Not like the FPS we have these days which are predictable and mostly very easy. I know not everyone would like that but we need to have more variety in FPS genre.
It's been replaced with trying to be more like the 1st game in the series.
The reason the gameplay's such a sticking point is because the game looks amazing and makes SF a must have launch game, yet the gameplay itself looks dreary, as I've said before.
The gun handling looks shit. The lack of recoil makes it seem incredibly shallow, and the tightened focus on ADS saps even more of my enthusiasm for the game. In Killzone 2 ADS felt like an option, here it appears more of a necessity. The whole closeup brutal melee system is tired, too. The core minute to minute gameplay fills me with nothing but apathy, and juxtaposed against the visuals it sticks out as a real saw thumb.
I've reiterated how much the wider environments and less linear sub-objectives will do for the feeling of the game, but without engaging mechanics in between these sub-objectives I just don't can't get too excited. From a gameplay perspective there just isn't anything that fills me with the feeling of 'oh fuck I HAVE to play this game'.
The gun handling looks shit. The lack of recoil makes it seem incredibly shallow, and the tightened focus on ADS saps even more of my enthusiasm for the game. In Killzone 2 ADS felt like an option, here it appears more of a necessity. The whole closeup brutal melee system is tired, too. The core minute to minute gameplay fills me with nothing but apathy, and juxtaposed against the visuals it sticks out as a real saw thumb.
I've reiterated how much the wider environments and less linear sub-objectives will do for the feeling of the game, but without engaging mechanics in between these sub-objectives I just don't can't get too excited. From a gameplay perspective there just isn't anything that fills me with the feeling of 'oh fuck I HAVE to play this game'.
James Sawyer Ford
Banned
I don't see how the games mechanics aren't engaging. You can't really judge that based upon a demo that is set on easy. A lot of the mechanics don't even shine through unless you have challenging AI, which we'd see on normal/hard difficulty levels.
Not all guns should have tons of recoil. The weapon he's using looks low damage, but high rate of fire, I wouldn't expect that weapon to feature lots of recoil.
I don't see the problem with requiring ADS for mid-to-long range. That's a natural fit for ADS to begin with, the player may be using it far too much at close range, which is probably to his detriment since it slows you down and isn't necessary. Just because he plays that way doesn't mean the game forces you to.
If you have all of these complaints about the core gameplay of Killzone, I can't really think of any shooter you may like in comparison given that the genre is fairly firmly established in this regard, mechanically.
Gunplay is the one thing you don't have to worry about in a KZ game, it does it better than pretty much any other shooter out there. Devs have already said they're still tweaking recoil, and aside from that I'd say the gunplay and combat looks fantastic. AI has also always been among the best in a fps, so that's another thing that will add value to combat scenarios.
Devs have also commented on the ADS thing. It is still an option (except for a few weapons), and hip fire is still going to be the preferred shooting option in most instances.
Your complaints are things that are basically of least concern for the franchise.
FeiRR
Banned
Because all RPGs have great stories, right... Companies can hire people to do work. They could have recruited people with RPG experience. They probably have.
Have you tried Stalker games? They're pretty unforgiving.
GribbleGrunger
Dreams in Digital
Perhaps it would be helpful if you could provide a list of all the possible gameplay changes you would like to see.
SniperHunter
Banned
I think Derrick01 should start his own game company. He strikes me as gaming visionary who could go on to improve many genres. So Derrick, launch a kickstarter or apply for a gaming director job! Talking on forums is a waste of time IMO
I may disagree with him a lot but a game concept that would please him would probably be amazing.
It's still in, they just haven't shown it yet. Looking at the concept art of the maps shows there's a lot of industrial and ruined ground we haven't seen yet. I think the fog in this level actually adds a lot more of the Killzoney dreariness to the scene while still injecting some vibrant color.
simplythebest
Banned
Day one right here.
GribbleGrunger
Dreams in Digital
How can you possibly say that without him supplying a single idea of what he would add? This is a FPS, the only genre that is defined entirely by it's central theme: SHOOTING. If he truly wants innovation then his first request would be to change it to FPP (first person perspective) and then developers wouldn't be restrained by the gamers expectations.
WordsintheWater
Member
Looks great, the closer and closer it gets to launch the more excited I am for this game, first game that I will pop into my system.
This looks mechanically altered, to me, from Killzone 2. Killzone 3 turned me off by moving towards the status quo with how weapons handled, and this looks even worse, in my opinion. Weapons look easy to control, with far less nuance than I'd like.
James if you really think this game's gun handling is synonymous to the entire genre then a) I feel for you and b) you haven't played Counterstrike. Some shooters offer deep gun handling mechanics that require mastery and practise to truly excel at (Killzone 2 did). I don't see such a learning curve here. I see lots of recoil-less, vapid shooting and lots of ADS. Nib you've continuously reiterated that Guerrilla are tweaking the recoil, but this game goes gold in mere weeks and we're no different to how we were at E3. I think you're relying on false hope if you think the final build will handle significantly different to this.
My ADS complaints come, in part, with a change to the reticule which implies an inherent lack of precision when firing from the hip. Previous Killzone titles featured a relatively tight reticule that allowed for accurate hip firing and gave the impression that the player wasn't at a disadvantage in doing so. One look at Shadow Fall and the reticule for the new main rifle (this is clearly the primary weapon in the game, given its broad range of uses) doesn't fill me with that same belief. It's wide, and varies with movement giving me the impression that you won't be hitting much without looking down the sight.
I'm not referring to the AI. Guerrila have some fucking superb AI programmers. But again, the Helghast can be as adaptive and intelligent as they want, if the mechanics of taking them out don't engage me and hook me for the hundredth time then it doesn't really matter much.
I suppose the AI will soften some of the blow during the singleplayer, as will the wider level design, but I really doubt the multiplayer will hold up after two, six, 12 months of play, primarily because of the games core mechanics. It looks really diluted from Killzone 2.
This is fucking nonsense.
How a game plays is its primary concern from a mechanical standpoint is its primary concern. It's the reason millions of people will log on to play day after day. It's the reason people still play Counterstrike 1.6. It's the reason so many people love Call of Duty. It's also the reason Killzone isn't a cultural hit on a similar scale.
Because the vast majority don't feel as strongly about it as you do.
dragonflys545
Member
Funny thing is he's more of a Xbone fanboy than Nintendo, and this is just another one of his drive by trolling.
Acquiescence
Member
When people call the PS4 launch line-up underwhelming, I look at this game and wonder why. The most I've played of Killzone is the Mercenaries beta; it never struck me as a series worth my time. But this... this looks ace. I'm not bothering with Knack, and the jury is out on DriveClub, but Shadow Fall looks so damn good, and has taken the franchise into a far more interesting direction.
James Sawyer Ford
Banned
I'm not saying that gun handling, weapon balancing, and depth is unimportant. I just don't see how you're making these judgements based upon such a limited play session of KZ and one in which we've primarily only seen one weapon.
Most of your complaints don't go into that level of detail regarding depth or balance; it just involves things like recoil and ADS, which again we've only really seen of one weapon for the most part.
As for your comments on ADS, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. I think the hip fire reticule was a bit too accurate in KZ2, which allowed you to snip people across the map without ever pulling up ADS.
Hip fire should only be reserved for close-mid range encounters...and that seems consistent with what I'm seeing with KZ:SF.
mysteriousmage09
Member
Wow, game looks incredible, especially for a day 1 launch title. The fog, lighting, dust, vegetation blowing in the wind really bring the world to life.
Angelus Errare
Banned
I didn't mean it for this game. Just someting built from the ground up on his view of what games should be.
I think you misunderstood me, I'm not saying these things aren't important, I'm saying that Killzone is a franchise famous for having some of the best gunplay out there in any fps or tps. It's some of the most satisfying, tactile and gun porn esque gunplay money can buy. That's why I said you don't really have to worry about it with Shadow Fall. GG have already proven themselves on that front.
Also, you realise the gun he's using in this video is essentially a plasma/pulse rifle. Why would it have excess kick back anyway? That's daft. Remember, I told you devs said recoil hadn't been finalised. But here's some weapons that DO already have recoil and solid feedback.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWfqnXLi0Ic&t=3m19s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWfqnXLi0Ic&t=3m32s
Although this is day 1 for me and my first ps4 games, I do agree as a massive KZ2 fan I am a little worried.
It isn't the KZ I love ( I love the more open areas but dislike things like ADS being more user friendly and the less recoil, hopefully they do actually tweak it instead of just saying they are)
Graphically it looks incredible but it's just too bright( crysis look more than a KZ look) Needs to look more gritty.
KZ: M did the art style perfectly, gritty yet still had nice bright colours.
It isn't the KZ I love ( I love the more open areas but dislike things like ADS being more user friendly and the less recoil, hopefully they do actually tweak it instead of just saying they are)
Graphically it looks incredible but it's just too bright( crysis look more than a KZ look) Needs to look more gritty.
KZ: M did the art style perfectly, gritty yet still had nice bright colours.
They went the other way, from RPGs to bro games lol.
Mate, I promise I'll discuss both yours and James' comments because this is a decent debate, but in this video you've handpicked he's fucking firing a light machine gun full blast without any fucking nuance whatsoever (he doesn't have to feather the trigger at all) and the gun is completely stationary. It doesn't kick at all. He literally turns a corner, aims down the sight at close range, holds the trigger down with as much thought as I give a fart, and wins the encounter.
That is vapid, to me. That typifies every complaint I've had about this game so far.
Shepard wouldn't be amused.
Canon Shepard is just a younger, alternative universe version of Marcus from Gears of War. One fights in a war torn universe using brodacious warfare, the other fights on a war torn planet using brodacious warfare.
Hell, they even have the same 3rd person gameplay/cover system.
What makes you say that? None of the console KZ games have been that short.