Lonesome_Raod
Member
I really can't wait for this game. I'm getting it on the 360. I'll be playing the game at the Eurogamer Expo on the 28th so I will post some impressions.
Fakto said:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=17969186&postcount=521TheFallen said:Are there any videos showcasing the console version's menus? I'm curious how they were able to handle all of the content. Hopefully it's not a bitch and a half to navigate. Regretting not having a good computer more and more lately. Damn you Apple!
Yeah, it's awkward and clunky, especially the equip screen, though I don't imagine you'll be using that too often. It was clearly made for a mouse. Switching skills was easy enough though. Maybe a little worse than Mass Effect overall, but much better than other PC ports like Two Worlds. Also what I played at E3 might not be the final version.TheFallen said:Are there any videos showcasing the console version's menus? I'm curious how they were able to handle all of the content. Hopefully it's not a bitch and a half to navigate. Regretting not having a good computer more and more lately. Damn you Apple!
Gorgon said:Please, no more! I have a PhD thesis to write too :lol
Gorgon said:KOTOR ended up as it did because it was made by a western, American company for an American console and they had the same misconceptions that you have. That's the source of all the problems with Western RPGs coming to consoles by essentially PC developers who completely failed to understand what was there before.
But you are already making the same mistake you did before and that I explained in a previous post. Console RPGs (japanese ones, not western) are NOT simpler or less complex. They put that complexity in other areas. Again, check out the magic system of the Megaten games, which is way beyond anything on the PC.
And yes, there are plenty more games that harder on consoles than on PC (RPGs that is) on average. Every single game I refered to above is orders of magnitude thougher than any of the PC RPGs I also quoted. Play them and you'll see. BG, NWN, Mass Effect, Elder Scrolls, they all feel like a dumbed down version of an RPG by comparison in terms of difficulty. Heck, I rarely died in any of those PC RPGs I refered too. Plus the save anywhere function of most RPGs in the last 15 years (way before their western consolization by western devs) barely ever made "fear of dying" a real factor. Just reload your last save and you're done.
Wizardry is one of the few exceptions of a game that is actually hard that survived into relatively recent years but, curiously, it's more popular in Japan than in the West nowadays. That should give you a clue has to where the real hardcore RPG crowd is...
No, it's not a fact. The complexity of jRPGs (again, not Western console RPGs made by western devs) is in other aspects of the game, e.g. magic systems, etc. Both complex, but in diferent ways.
Again, what you are refering to is games designed by western devs who were primarily PC developers and who didn't understand console gaming to begin with. They didn't understand jRPGs on the PS systems and it was even worse when they started moving into the Xbox, an american machine for western audiences. They ASSUMED people where dumber and consequentially dumbed down the games. They never understood shit what the japanese and japanese RPG fans where doing. Misunderstanding the market is something that devs are quite well known for doing.
Totally agree and that's why I don't think that games like BG, DA or RTSs in general are well suited for consoles. However it's not because console players don't like the complesity or are dumber, but simply because those games require a much more versatile method of control that a console controler can't provide. Maybe it works with DA but it will certainly not be as good as playing with good old K&M.
The thing is that the japanese still do plenty of RPGs that are not only more difficult but also as complex (in a different way) than western devs, PC or or not. So on average japanese console games are harder and as complex as PC RPGs simply because they do them in much higher quantity than in the West. Fuck, they don't even do them in the west. They just died out. Wizardry is as well as dead here. But yes, there's tons of simpler jRPGs, more than in the West. But thats also easier to understand why: RPGs are huge in japan, bigger than in the West, and while in the west most people who play them is what we would call "hardcore", in Japan people of all ages play them, from kids to grown ups, and so the variety and range of difficulty varies much more. But the bottom line is still that there is a much bigger production of demanding, though and complex RPGs games than in the West on average. The games I mentioned are simply some of the best examples of cult games. But there are plenty more that are even less well known to western gamers.
DA is also a "throwback game" isn't it? Everyone is screaming to a return to the good old days of western RPGs. The japanese do the same. But still notice that dungeon crawlers never went out of popularity in Japan as they did here. Baroque came out a year or two ago. The last Kings Field came out a few years ago on the PS2. SMT: Strange Journey comes out this year.
And do we western gamers have? Nothing. We are just praying that DA turns out good or else we have to wait another 8 years.
I could say the same thing about Mass Effect, Jade Empire, etc. And to be honest I think that the tendency to simplify has little to do with WESTERN devs making games for WESTERN consoles (it's never to much to stress that) but instead a market that increasingly demands this simplification, consoles or not. Mass Effect sold pretty well on PC, didn't it?
I don't know what "auto-rezz" is (I'm not a native english speaker :lol ). Sorry!
Maybe you have a point there. Manuals and explanation certainly aren't the japanese forte.
As far as dialogue trees/choices, choice and consequence, etc goes, yes, western RPGs are miles beyong JRPGs. Always were.
I know D&D pretty well. Not only from CRPGs but also from table top. The magic system is ok but in actual gameplay isn't that great. You rarely can make a mistake in a game that is fatal because you chose the wrong spell or whatever. Western RPGs aren't really difficult because combat is relatively straightforward and dabling in the magic during combat rarely is of great consequence if you do mistakes. The Megaten games are far beyond western RPGs not only in complexity (how it all interacts together) but also in consequences. They really make you feel that you are in magic battle in which every choice every turn can be fatal. No western RPG was ever abble to achieve that.
I don't see why is it insulting, to be honest. They are far easir than the in the old days. Wizardry was perhaps the last Western PC RPG series that gave players a chalenge.
Gorgon said:Well, we would get into the discussion of what is and isn't an RPG. It's true though that most JRPGs don't tend to have movement during combat. But many do. You said that you have Persona 2. If I remember correctly that is one of them. There's more, like Poison Pink, Stella Deus, etc. However someone else could do a better job at giving examples since I'm not really a big fan of those, but there are plenty of the so called Strategy RPGs as the japanese like to call them.
Anyway, good discussion mate. I still think that you have a few misconceptions there. Other things are a matter of opinion and as such are not open to discussion, only dialogue. Keep on gaming
EDIT: shit, I'm almost out of breath after reading/writting all that.:lol
Darvan said:I wish they would say if the consoles versions are going to support the PC mod's that come out.
IrishNinja said:wait, when has that happened?
Darvan said:I wish they would say if the consoles versions are going to support the PC mod's that come out.
That is just two checkboxes on a very long list of why the PC version will be better. Most of the others have been mentioned any number of times before.FuKuy said:So MODs + controls turns PC version into the better version to choose.
I mean, the idea that console gamers on average want simpler games isn't even something up for debate, it's a fact and has been true ever since there have been consoles.
Bossman said:Didn't they say that they might bring some of the top PC mods to the consoles?
http://www.thesixthaxis.com/2009/08/30/dragon-age-origins-could-be-boosted-by-mods/
bigmit3737 said:I am just excited in that the tool is supposed to be pretty powerful and we will mods to tweak the game on how we want to play.
koji said:If the toolset will offer the same capabilities like the NWN1 one did we're in for a treat...
Community did (and is stil doing) awesome stuff with that. (persistent worlds like mini-mmorgs etc) Shame the NWN2 modscene/multiplayer stuff never really boomed like NWN1 did. (toolset and database management was VERY limited there IIRC)
Victrix said:You can purchase the digital deluxe edition at Impulse right now for $52 by applying the code SURVEY-2009
The DDE comes with Warden's Keep, so unless you can find the normal edition for $45 or less, this is cheaper than buying the game and the day 1 DLC, and you get a few useless ingame items and the soundtrack.
http://www.impulsedriven.com/dragonagece
NewLib said:There are three base classes: Mage, Warrior, Rogue. Each has 4 Specializations
Mage: Shapeshifter, Arcane Warrior, Spirit Healer, and Blood Mage
Warrior:Berserker, Templer, Champion, Reaver
Rogue: Bard, Assassin, Ranger, and Duelist
ElyrionX said:Am I the only one who thinks the mage specializations are kind of lame?
That's only for the US and Canada though.Victrix said:You can purchase the digital deluxe edition at Impulse right now for $52 by applying the code SURVEY-2009
The DDE comes with Warden's Keep, so unless you can find the normal edition for $45 or less, this is cheaper than buying the game and the day 1 DLC, and you get a few useless ingame items and the soundtrack.
http://www.impulsedriven.com/dragonagece
Lime said:Does anyone know if the PC version will have that shitty DRM (limit of 4 activations) that PC games published by EA usually have?
mitheor said:
Apeboy said:The more hype that comes out for this the easier it is to place it further down the list for games to purchase.
Everything that comes out whether screen caps, CG trailers, interviews and now the creator hides the ingame play even more. Hiding the game play has never, never ever never turned out to be a good thing. Predicting bargain bin pricing before Christmas.
Pankaks said:Joke post?
Apeboy said:The more hype that comes out for this the easier it is to place it further down the list for games to purchase.
Everything that comes out whether screen caps, CG trailers, interviews and now the creator hides the ingame play even more. Hiding the game play has never, never ever never turned out to be a good thing. Predicting bargain bin pricing before Christmas.
mitheor said:
hermit7 said:I am really excited for this game, since KOTOR I have played every Bioware game (apart from the Sonic rpg) and have not been disappointed by any of them.
Rad- said:PC Jeux review, here's some info that might be interesting:
- Races slightly differ from stereotypes: Elves not as arrogant, dwarves act like Byzantines.
- Story is very "classical" but still avoids cliches. DA level story is a rarity in video games (so it's good).
- 8 companions, all are well made and different. You get their quests as you develop your friendship. One of them is a berserker child killer apparently and one is an ex-murderer who wants to get rid of his past (there are good guys as well). Companions may react strongly to your decisions.
- 70 hours for average playthrough.
- Specializations are unlocked by reading rare books, doing sidequests or talking to NPCs.
- Does good justice to BG series.
- Negatives: Graphics not amazing, weapon/armor models not that varied, loading is a bit long (between areas).
95/100. He states that the game has potential to become a big hit. Also that 95 is apparently the highest this mag has ever given to a RPG.
Rad- said:PC Jeux review, here's some info that might be interesting:
- Races slightly differ from stereotypes: Elves not as arrogant, dwarves act like Byzantines.
- Story is very "classical" but still avoids cliches. DA level story is a rarity in video games (so it's good).
- 8 companions, all are well made and different. You get their quests as you develop your friendship. One of them is a berserker child killer apparently and one is an ex-murderer who wants to get rid of his past (there are good guys as well). Companions may react strongly to your decisions.
- 70 hours for average playthrough.
- Specializations are unlocked by reading rare books, doing sidequests or talking to NPCs.
- Does good justice to BG series.
- Negatives: Graphics not amazing, weapon/armor models not that varied, loading is a bit long (between areas).
95/100. He states that the game has potential to become a big hit. Also that 95 is apparently the highest this mag has ever given to a RPG.
Dark Stalkers said:Do you get different companions for each origin?
That counting all the diferent origins, right ?- 70 hours for average playthrough.
Gorgon said:A Black Falcon:
I'm gonna beg your forgiveness but I really don't have the time or stamina to answer all that :lol
I'd like to thank you and everyone that has contributed to this discussion. Although it was off-topic I think the mods realized that it was actually a productive and interesting discussion and as such let it go its natural course. Again, thank you
I'd just like to make a brief comment regarding this:
I honestly don't agree. Sorry. I think instead that GAMERS in general, regardless of platform, prefer simpler games that provide INSTANT GRATIFICATION and the simplification we see in games is simply the developers realization of this fact. Don't forget that the biggest platform for casual gamming is still, and ever was, the PC. Simpler and fun sell more than complex (which are also fun but in another way). It's a matter of market. It really doesn't have anything to do with beying on consoles or not.
Fakto said:That counting all the diferent origins, right ?
10-15 hrs. for each origin seems pretty short to me since I'm probably going to play through only one or two.