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[djplaeskool]

Looks absolutely beautiful.
One thing I love about Vanillaware designs is that they look equally amazing both in still shots and in motion.
This game will be awesome

 

[throwawayname]

Fuck yeah, I started playing Odin Sphere yesterday.

 

[orioto]

Looks nice! Dat art direction.

Not wanting to derail the thread but do you think next gen, with the crazy amount of ram we'll have, dev will be able to have this kind of sprite in a frame per frame animation, and not vector based animation ?
(Cause when i see those sprites, i think a versus fighter should look like that, but with frame per frame with 3d model assists like SNK did with KOF XII and XIII)

 

[R_thanatos]

Trailer got me hyped ..

Art is gorgeous.

I so wanna play this game.

Vanillaware masters of 2d goodness.

Now the question ...PS3 or VITA ? what ...

Spoiler

BOTH

hell yeah !
Give me 4 player dragon 2d slaying gameplay!

 

[SolidSnakex]

Does anyone know anything about this really? It really does look like a very stock beat 'em up, which would be a curious design choice after the great balance of action, adventure, and RPG in Muramasa.

Does anyone have any actual details as far as what the gameplay is beyond basic brawler stuff?

Famitsu reminds readers that Dragon’s Crown is a hack and slash game with action, character growth, and collecting elements. Before you trek into a dungeon you can purchase provisions in town. The game has quests to take on and events scenes. In dungeons, players can earn experience points, money, and equipment.

http://www.siliconera.com/2013/03/19/more-dragons-crown-tidbits-confirm-the-game-has-a-town/

 

[Kaldea]

The art is amazing. I love the character designs BECAUSE they're interesting to look at. So tired of the usual character designs that are in nearly every other game.

 

[Sentenza]

Just out of curiosity: is this a Sony exclusive because of moneyhatting or it's merely because Sony platforms are popular in japan and other versions are not entirely out of the question?

Spoiler

Yeah, I'm specifically thinking about a Steam version

 

[sTeLioSco]

looks awesome

 

[Pejo]

In for both versions (if sold separately). I will never not buy a Vanillaware game just based on the art. I've actually enjoyed the gameplay too but that was probably heavily influenced by my love for the art and 2D in general.

 

[Ohnonono]

Dancing mouse hype!

 

[Mikhal]

Already in for the PS3 version. I still have my Newegg preorder of this game from last year!

 

[Vlaphor]

Even though the animation looks a bit Gilliam-esqe, I'm still looking forward to this game. Loved Guardian Heroes, the D&D arcade games, and the previous works of Vanillaware, so I am ready for this.

 

[erpg]

Just out of curiosity: is this a Sony exclusive because of moneyhatting or it's merely because Sony platforms are popular in japan and other versions are not entirely out of the question?

Spoiler

Yeah, I'm specifically thinking about a Steam version

They've never made a game outside of a console platform. So no, it isn't moneyhatting, it's just Japanese people making games for Japanese people. Same as always.

 

[Tricky I Shadow]

Yeah, okay...this can go on my radar now. I did like Muramasa after all.

Spoiler

Amazon and Sorceress are still embarrassing/disgusting.

Elf all the way!

Sprite animations are available on the official site

http://dragons-crown.com

Dat music!

 

[SuperSonic1305]

Everything has MASSIVE TITS.

Sold

 

[SAB CA]

Looks nice! Dat art direction.

Not wanting to derail the thread but do you think next gen, with the crazy amount of ram we'll have, dev will be able to have this kind of sprite in a frame per frame animation, and not vector based animation ?
(Cause when i see those sprites, i think a versus fighter should look like that, but with frame per frame with 3d model assists like SNK did with KOF XII and XIII)

I'm sure they could already DO it for the proper genre is they wanted to, but do they ever try? Very few companies seem to find it worthwhile.

Why make something of that detail level frame-by-frame, when you could just make something like a hybrid of the Atelier PS3 Celshade/texture look, with the animations and effects of Naruto UNS series?

Of course, I'd love to see what would happen if Kamitani could wrap his style around something like the tech used for Skullgirls. Will the next generation of console + large amounts of ram FINALLY force companies to upgrade their 2D creation methods?

I dunno... my hope is that someone (Like SNKP or Capcom, maybe Ubisoft?) is already contemplating all this, and has work in place to get out a 2D juggernaut game early in the next console lifecycle, so it can make crazy sales while the number of games are still low (similiar to how Lost Planet and Dead Rising did so well).

 

[matmanx1]

I dig the exaggerated character proportions just because it's so ridiculous looking. It's ridiculous but in an awesome way. The gameplay looks fairly tried and true and as others have said it's pretty hard to mess up this formula.

I just hope there's plenty of meat on the bone and no crippling slowdown as either will kill the game pretty quickly. And oh yes, please bring that Artbook over to the West. Thanks!

 

[dramatis]

Looks beautiful art-wise, but gameplay also looks a bit chaotic.

Hope party play works out well.

 

[Sentenza]

They've never made a game outside of a console platform. So no, it isn't moneyhatting, it's just Japanese people making games for Japanese people. Same as always.

I'm well aware of what they made so far. That wasn't the question.
I was specifically asking if Sony paid to make this an exclusive (and in that case they hold the rights for this IP) or if it's just their choice as developers (so something that they could eventually correct if they want to).
Apparently it's the latter, which is good news.

 

[MrCookiepants]

Is this the only art style they can do?

 

[erpg]

I'm well aware of what they made so far. That wasn't the question.
I was specifically asking if Sony paid to make this an exclusive (and in that case holds the rights for this IP) or if it's just their choice (so something that they could eventually correct if they want to).
Apparently it's the latter, which is good news.

If Sony held the rights to it, they'd be publishing it. Atlus or Vanillaware hold the rights.

But I wouldn't keep my hopes up on having it pop up on PC.

 

[$h@d0w]

ridiculous breasts

 

[orioto]

I'm sure they could already DO it for the proper genre is they wanted to, but do they ever try? Very few companies seem to find it worthwhile.

Why make something of that detail level frame-by-frame, when you could just make something like a hybrid of the Atelier PS3 Celshade/texture look, with the animations and effects of Naruto UNS series?

Of course, I'd love to see what would happen if Kamitani could wrap his style around something like the tech used for Skullgirls. Will the next generation of console + large amounts of ram FINALLY force companies to upgrade their 2D creation methods?

I dunno... my hope is that someone (Like SNKP or Capcom, maybe Ubisoft?) is already contemplating all this, and has work in place to get out a 2D juggernaut game early in the next console lifecycle, so it can make crazy sales while the number of games are still low (similiar to how Lost Planet and Dead Rising did so well).

What i was thinking is... Actually the Vanilla sprites are not super detailled, when you see them closely. I think the work SNK needed to touched up every frames of their recent KOF in pixel art is probably not smaller than the one they would need to achieve this kind of color details on each frame. So this is essentially a problem of ram.

 

[Sentenza]

If Sony held the rights to it, they'd be publishing it. Atlus or Vanillaware hold the rights.

But I wouldn't keep my hopes up on having it pop up on PC.

Oh, I'm not hoping in them taking the initiative, be assured.
More in some western publisher/importer like Ghostlight or XSEED convincing them, eventually.

 

[SAB CA]

Looks beautiful art-wise, but gameplay also looks a bit chaotic.

Hope party play works out well.

Chaotic is a good thing!

Is this the only art style they can do?

It George Kamitani's company, and they use George Kamitani's artstyle... it's probably not the only style they CAN do, but why would they want to use another? Plus being able to reuse art assets between games probably really helps lower cost somewhere or another.

What i was thinking is... Actually the Vanilla sprites are not super detailled, when you see them closely. I think the work SNK needed to touched up every frames of their recent KOF in pixel art is probably not smaller than the one they would need to achieve this kind of color details on each frame. So this is essentially a problem of ram.

Why do you think it's less to do with cost / efficiency, and more one of Ram? I mean, if people wanted to produce frame-by-frame HD 2D games already, we could have them. We might not have a 4 player BEM like DC here, but we could have a single player game in smaller areas with more loading in between. Why don't we see more PC games developed with HQ 2D animation, if RAM is the thing holding devs back? I'd love to see more games that look like Clash of Heroes HD, for example, but that doesn't happen all that often...

Oh, and for all intents and purposes, for moving characters in a game / tv animation / whatever...

I'd call that super-detailed XD

 

[erpg]

Oh, I'm not hoping in them taking the initiative, be assured.
More in some western publisher/importer like Ghostlight or XSEED convincing them, eventually.

Atlus has a western branch and has published quite a few western-centric titles (Rock of Ages, Zeno Clash), so they're aware of it. I just don't think there's a large contingent of people in Japan would care to negotiate or even give thought to PC ports.

 

[honorless]

I'm sure they could already DO it for the proper genre is they wanted to, but do they ever try? Very few companies seem to find it worthwhile.

Why make something of that detail level frame-by-frame, when you could just make something like a hybrid of the Atelier PS3 Celshade/texture look, with the animations and effects of Naruto UNS series?

Of course, I'd love to see what would happen if Kamitani could wrap his style around something like the tech used for Skullgirls. Will the next generation of console + large amounts of ram FINALLY force companies to upgrade their 2D creation methods?

Re: the bolded—RagingSpaniard mentioned that Reverge Labs Lab Zero hit the RAM ceiling trying to cram all that 2D art into the initial version of Skullgirls and had to get around it somehow. (I'm not sure how.) So memory constraints are an issue with current consoles. (I'm also wondering how they'll be able to get around it again now that they'll be adding new characters.)

Assuming no resolution bump, it should be less of an issue on PS4/720. But then the second part of your statement comes into play—who would bother? Basically no one outside of an indie studio, because frame-by-frame 2D is extremely costly and laborious. One might say it would be a labor of love, and businesses can't run on love.

 

[dramatis]

Is this the only art style they can do?

How many games have this art style?

 

[orioto]

Why do you think it's less to do with cost / efficiency, and more one of Ram? I mean, if people wanted to produce frame-by-frame HD 2D games already, we could have them. We might not have a 4 player BEM like DC here, but we could have a single player game in smaller areas with more loading in between. Why don't we see more PC games developed with HQ 2D animation, if RAM is the thing holding devs back? I'd love to see more games that look like Clash of Heroes HD, for example, but that doesn't happen all that often...

Oh, and for all intents and purposes, for moving characters in a game / tv animation / whatever...

I'd call that super-detailed XD

Oh yeah that's detailled i agree but what i mean is that when you look at them closely it's not the detail of an artwork like that :

In term of actual graphic designer work, it's less work.

Now in term of ram, i don't know, but based on a simple math (i don't know how much devs can compress multi frames and all..) but a sprite from Dragon Crown, rezised to what you would need for a fighter, in png-24, is 234ko. An average character from KOF XII seemed to be animated with 500 frames. That's 117mo if i'm correct, x2 characters and the rest of the needed things... It's probably too much for a current gen console i guess. But next gen (or pc) should be way enough. And it's still the same as usual, they could do that on pc right now but they need consoles to make money.

 

[Sushigod7]

Wow had the official site up and playing on another tab just to listen to the music. This surpassed all my expectations I'll be getting import and domestic unless the domestic is coming with the artbook and is really coming 8-6. I don't care what anyone says the combat in Muramasa when played correctly was pretty deep I hope this is deeper with RPG elements and lots of loot. Also wonder about playing with the controller, I used the nunchuck on Wii which was how they designed it to be played the classic controller set up was a joke not fast enough for combo's etc. But I have a feeling it's time to get a stick for my PS3 and do some custom DC artwork on it for this.

 

[Fine Ham Abounds]

Point well taken, I was mainly visualizing Momohime.

This is much better than the grotesque monsters they're calling women in dragon's crown. When it comes to DC, it's as if the character artist was an alien from another world, who read in a book about what humans find attractive in females and tried to concoct it.

startrekguyheadexplode.gif

I think a better argument than denigrating the stylistic exaggeration of these characters would be to criticize the overt sexualization of these characters underlying that decision. It's not a discussion I'd care to have, but I think it's a better one than critiquing the design based on whether it is a faithful interpretation of a woman, not least of all because real women come in all shapes and sizes.

Yeah, okay...this can go on my radar now. I did like Muramasa after all.

Spoiler

Amazon and Sorceress are still embarrassing/disgusting.

Elf all the way!

Oh my god, is there anything we can agree on? :<

 

[SAB CA]

Re: the bolded&#8212;RagingSpaniard mentioned that Reverge Labs Lab Zero hit the RAM ceiling trying to cram all that 2D art into the initial version of Skullgirls and had to get around it somehow. (I'm not sure how.) So memory constraints are an issue with current consoles. (I'm also wondering how they'll be able to get around it again now that they'll be adding new characters.)

Assuming no resolution bump, it should be less of an issue on PS4/720. But then the second part of your statement comes into play&#8212;who would bother? Basically no one outside of an indie studio, because frame-by-frame 2D is extremely costly and laborious. One might say it would be a labor of love, and businesses can't run on love.

Skullgirls is especially crazy, with the need to fit potentially 6 unique characters into RAM at the same time, with no pauses for loading between characters. (Lets not even talk about the Backgrounds and stage characters.) And you could probably make an army of BEU or action platformer characters out of the frames of a single skullgirls character...

They also mention that Mike Z's method of packing frames and elements onto sprite sheets /in game is crazy ingenious, and saves a lot of space with varied frame sizes and less demand from "negative space" in the memory. (I'll see if I can find it in the Skullgirls thread, and link it...)

I'd love to see so many more games go the "Wario Land: Shake it!" style of "have an animation studio create our game assets", and still am sad that it's so crazy rare.

It all just gives me the impression that resources / availability of quality artist / percieved returns are the real enemies of HD 2D animation, and that RAM is a second or 3rd worry, depending on who you talk to.

Oh yeah that's detailled i agree but what i mean is that when you look at them closely it's not the detail of an artwork like that :

http://cache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/9/2010/04/500x_kof13new.jpg
In term of actual graphic designer work, it's less work.

Now in term of ram, i don't know, but based on a simple math (i don't know how much devs can compress multi frames and all..) but a sprite from Dragon Crown, rezised to what you would need for a fighter, in png-24, is 234ko. An average character from KOF XII seemed to be animated with 500 frames. That's 117mo if i'm correct, x2 characters and the rest of the needed things... It's probably too much for a current gen console i guess. But next gen (or pc) should be way enough. And it's still the same as usual, they could do that on pc right now but they need consoles to make money.

Eh, I dunno. Comparing Takuma to the Dwarf, if I was asked to mimic either style in a commission, I'd feel equally daunted. Maybe less so by the more clothed characters, even, because huge washes of mono-thematic clothing is a bit easier to deal with than anything as crazy as the Dwarf's veiny, fantasy musculature-riddled arm.

In reality, Ogura's art, with a need for motion, would probably look a lot like the Dragon's Crown artwork... no one in their right mind is going to make an animation model as detailed as a stand-alone picture, and once you zoom in on Ogura's art, you notice that his style of coloring is actually pretty similiar to Kamitani's. (I love how close you can get to his artwork in KoF XIII's Gallery; so much more intimate than anything you can find online). I'm quite impressed with how defined the character look in this game; armor mail, body tattoos, muscle veins, and other such details are generally the kinds of things one DOESN'T see in motion graphics, and yet this game has such details all about.

Even given infinite money / RAM, how many animators would choose to actually put detailed frame-by-frame animation to an image such as this? The saddest thought is, how many people would STILL say "Looks like an SNES game!" and "No way They should charge more than $15 for this, I played better looking stuff on my iPhone?" :{ :{

 

[LProtag]

Beautiful. Can't wait.

 

[Omegasquash]

Looks like a beat 'em up that I used to pump quarters into as a kid. Will get.

 

[Kyouji]

Best looking game of 2013. Gonna have to preorder the Japanese release. My first Vanillaware game, oh boy.

 

[Dead Prince]

looks amazingly beautiful. jiggles ftw.

 

[Vidpixel]

Everything about this game looks fine except for the female characters. Talk about awkward and/or juvenile (in my opinion).

 

[radios shipping overview]

Is this the only art style they can do?

They're a small company. Play games by a different company if you want a different art style.

 

[Cidd]

Odin Sphere on steroids!!!

This look great, I'll grab the PS3 version when it's out.

 

[nailbombxx]

Absolutely incredible. I need that art book.

 

[Sushigod7]

Best looking game of 2013. Gonna have to preorder the Japanese release. My first Vanillaware game, oh boy.

Do yourself a favor and buy the others on PSN and get Muramasa if you have a Wii.

 

[Roubjon]

Holy shit at those idle animations. And the art style in general is so eye opening and gorgeous. I hope there aren't framerate drops in the Vita version, otherwise I'd have to go with the PS3 version.

 

[jiggle]

gorgeous!

 

[Jinaar]

Love the Dark Schneider vibe with the Wizard. Bastard!! all the way.

 

[joeblow]

I'm really, REALLY looking forward to this game because I love me some quality beat 'em ups.

 

[Ricker]

Dat Sorceress sashay

 

[ULTROS!]

I do wonder... Will this game still be great even if I play single player all throughout?

 

[djplaeskool]

I wonder who's scoring the game.
The music on the main site and in both the image and promotional trailers is amazing.

 

[orioto]

Eh, I dunno. Comparing Takuma to the Dwarf, if I was asked to mimic either style in a commission, I'd feel equally daunted. Maybe less so by the more clothed characters, even, because huge washes of mono-thematic clothing is a bit easier to deal with than anything as crazy as the Dwarf's veiny, fantasy musculature-riddled arm.

In reality, Ogura's art, with a need for motion, would probably look a lot like the Dragon's Crown artwork... no one in their right mind is going to make an animation model as detailed as a stand-alone picture, and once you zoom in on Ogura's art, you notice that his style of coloring is actually pretty similiar to Kamitani's. (I love how close you can get to his artwork in KoF XIII's Gallery; so much more intimate than anything you can find online). I'm quite impressed with how defined the character look in this game; armor mail, body tattoos, muscle veins, and other such details are generally the kinds of things one DOESN'T see in motion graphics, and yet this game has such details all about.

Even given infinite money / RAM, how many animators would choose to actually put detailed frame-by-frame animation to an image such as this? The saddest thought is, how many people would STILL say "Looks like an SNES game!" and "No way They should charge more than $15 for this, I played better looking stuff on my iPhone?" :{ :{

You're probably right. My feeling the Vannilla sprite are less detailled is cause they have that "big thick brush" aspect. Anyway we'll probably see amazing things in 2D next gen!

And even in 3D. When you think about it, the original Shinkiro style is now totally doable really faithfully in 3D.

 

[Takao]

In related news, Muramasa Rebirth is out on Vita this week in Japan.