Support NeoGAF

[Dark_castle]

Well, I guess we will need to see more of how it works. I realize there is a "main" character but not being able to customize and level any other party members would be a downer.



Well, I guess getting rid of the female playable cast wasn't enough...

What are you saying?

You obviously will level up everyone else and control their equipment/skills. You can even change their strategies through Gambit system. And you also can do dual/triple techs like moves with them during battles.

 

[Toth]

Thank you all for the info. The game is finally coming together and it looks pretty solid. I suppose this does give credence to the theory that Nomura was the main issue (I won't call him incompetent but maybe waaaaaay too ambitious) behind the game's issues since Tabata has brought this game back to relevance.

 

[Verendus]

They showed it in the new footage. See GIFs here - http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=132577115&postcount=60

That does look like it. I need to watch this video. Jump and short warp.

 

[Koozek]

So what's Kitase doing these days? Anyone know?

FFVII Remake.

Spoiler

 

[Hades Hotgun]

Not getting to play as other characters is a big letdown for me. I hated how essentially pointless Donald and Goofy were in KH.

Also, if the party members aren't playable, then it makes the limited number and lack of diversity seem all the more disappointing. At least in KH you could swap out different characters.

The actual gameplay descriptions sound encouraging though. The demo is still gonna be make or bresk for me, but I'm a bit more excitex to try it.

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

FFVII Remake.

Spoiler

if only

I be the is already doing the next final fantasy so there isn't a huge wait time between them.

 

[Hibiki Kurosawa]

Just read the translation from Gematsu. Veeery transparent. I love it. I still have my reservations about the battle system, but I think it has potential. Looking forward to the demo.

Spoiler

Character switching will be in XV-2.

 

[.la1n]

Am I understanding correctly that they acknowledge going forward that information release will be poor as it has been in the past and basically "please understand?"

 

[Dark_castle]

Only Noctis is playable? R.I.P. What is the point of a multiple character party when only one is playable? Just call it Noctis appears: Final Fantasy XV. I'm finding it increasingly hard to still care about this game.

Let me guess, you did not know there is a Gambit system in this game, right? You know, the one system that enables you to tweak every single action/abilities your characters could perform in battle, all based on YOUR input/idea?

 

[MissDeviling]

Only Noctis is playable? R.I.P. What is the point of a multiple character party when only one is playable.

I would have liked to be able to switch to different characters to cover one guy's weaknesses or exploit opportunities in certain situations, making the party feel more essential to battle. I guess the party members are basically reduced to coop action triggers now. Bit of a shame.

 

[wmlk]

Am I understanding correctly that they acknowledge going forward that information release will be poor as it has been in the past and basically "please understand?"

Not even close. Where did you even get an 'understanding' of that?

They're gonna show more next month.

 

[Hibiki Kurosawa]

Am I understanding correctly that they acknowledge going forward that information release will be poor as it has been in the past and basically "please understand?"

He was basically saying that future information releases could be received as poorly as the TGS interviews, but they'll try to make sure it doesn't. So in other words, they can't gauge how people will react to how they release info, so please understand.

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

So what's Kitase doing these days? Anyone know?

Producing the next Toriyama's masterful work: FF XVI

Spoiler

We don't know, but that's probably what's happening

 

[Famassu]

Gambits should have all been unlocked from the beginning in XII considering all they do is cut down on micro-management time. Otherwise I absolutely loved them.

Not liking what's being shown for this game to be frank. Seems like a sub-par action game with dumbed-down mechanics or barely an RPG depending on how you look at it. Only one playable character doesn't help it. Going that route I'd expect the gameplay mechanics to be more fun and involving than KH-style "press X to win".

We'll see.

Someone talking shit they have absolutely no understanding, I see. KH is hardly "press X to win", especially on harder difficulty levels. The only one that was even close to that is Vanilla KHII (even then you could make a few ability changes and make the game extremely hard) and the Final Mix version dealt with that, which is finally being released outside Japan.

 

[mrlion]

For now it did clear up some doubts that I had. I have no problems with not controlling the party members whatsoever and I really don't see what the big deal is. We still know next to nothing about the other characters other than the fact that we can't control them and we are able to manipulate their actions we still don't know to what extent the gambit-like system will let us manipulate the characters, or if we are going to manage their skills and equipment (since you guys are comparing this game to KH, in KH you are able to outfit Goofy and Donald with equipment).

Basically what I'm saying is...wait for the demo...

 

[wmlk]

All of the enemies and the rest of the party look so incompetent. They don't do a single thing.

 

[Novan Leon]

This game's battle system just seems to be moving further and further away from what "Final Fantasy" battles used to be all about: party management, customization and strategic battles.

Now it's just a glorified hack-n-slash game with slightly more depth than the average Dynasty Warriors game. The battle system in FFXIII was already one of the most inane systems ever. While this battle system might be a step above FFXIII, it's still miles away from where it should be.

This, of course, is just my personal opinion. I suppose the younger generation which never got to play a bonafide FF title probably wouldn't know or care about the changes. FF is essentially dead to me. Long live Persona.

EDIT: After playing and loving Lost Odyssey, I've come to accept the fact that Final Fantasy died with the departure of Hironobu Sakaguchi. I look forward to his future projects more than I do any Final Fantasy game.

 

[BadWolf]

All of the enemies and the rest of the party look so incompetent. They don't do a single thing.

Lol you can't be serious.

This is a short demo of an unfinished game.

 

[Dark_castle]

I think that button for the main weapon are just special attacks, not really manual individual button combos.

Yes, they're still attacks. I never say basic combos.

And besides, you don't literally just hold down the attack button for everything. You can press the directional button as well, and it will change the actions. Not fully sure what this means however.

Q: What about attacks?

A：When you push the attack button, you invoke the standard combo. You can change the actions by using it in coordination with the directional buttons. The actions change depending on your circumstances—things like whether you’re guarding and whether the timing is right, (imagine in this circumstance: when you’re guarding, you might get a chance to counterattack or something), or if your companions are nearby.


Read more at http://gematsu.com/2014/10/final-fa...fan-concerns-new-gameplay#3oXBdsl4T7iMkrEY.99

 

[Damerman]

#dead LOL

 

[wmlk]

Lol you can't be serious.

This is a short demo of an unfinished game.

A game that's about a year away from release.

They still haven't done a thing in any of the footage we've seen.

 

[Teletraan1]

Time to let it go, this time for good.

There seems to be way more moves that requires active player inputs, like co-op moves and parry. The innards of the gambit/A.I system and the whole weapon deck is where it seems is the real meat of the battle system.

If the meat of your battle system is some AI that you determine outside of a battle or which weapon you use then your battle system fails imo.

 

[Skilletor]

Hopefully the Gambits are a form of treasure in FFXV too, if that is what they end up going with. I loved searching the world for more Gambits and finding those ones that pretty much changed everything about the potential of your AI during combat.

some were hard as fuck to find

Any word on if this game will have summons or anything?

This was the worst thing about the gambit system and one of the best things they fixed in the international version.

This game's battle system just seems to be moving further and further away from what "Final Fantasy" battles used to be all about: party management, customization and strategic battles.

Now it's just a glorified hack-n-slash game with slightly more depth than the average Dynasty Warriors game. The battle system in FFXIII was already one of the most inane systems ever. While this battle system might be a step above FFXIII, it's still miles away from where it should be.

This, of course, is just my personal opinion. I suppose the younger generation which never got to play a bonafide FF title probably wouldn't know or care about the changes. FF is essentially dead to me. Long live Persona.

EDIT: After playing and loving Lost Odyssey, I've come to accept the fact that Final Fantasy died with the departure of Hironobu Sakaguchi. I look forward to his future projects more than I do any Final Fantasy game.

Can you post some footage of the battle system you played that shows how terrible it is?

I've been playing FF a long time and can't wait for this.

 

[Famassu]

Yes, they're still attacks. I never say basic combos.

And besides, you don't literally just hold down the attack button for everything. You can press the directional button as well, and it will change the actions. Not fully sure what this means however.

It means counter-attack. You might be pressing the guard-button to block an enemy attack and if you time your attack-button correctly after blocking, you'll perform a counter-attack.

 

[-Horizon-]

No character switching ;~;

Spoiler

Final Fantasy 15-2 will save us surely

 

[Solid Samus]

All of the enemies and the rest of the party look so incompetent. They don't do a single thing.

Yeah I've never seen a video demo with pared back AI for presentational purposes

Hold up let me actually use my brain for a second

Haha oh yeah that's actually really really common

Seriously, look up presentation footage of literally any 3d game you've ever been hyped for and tell me if the AI and apparent difficulty inspires any hope. That's just how it goes, ai in these are dumb and the demonstrator or player is god mode, BC they have specific shit to demonstrate uninterrupted. J

 

[Novan Leon]

This was the worst thing about the gambit system and one of the best things they fixed in the international version.

I loved gambit changes in the International version, but after beating the game, in retrospect I'm not much of a fan of the class system they introduced. It's too restrictive and makes the game seem stale with your characters being locked into a specific class for the entire game.

 

[Kagari]

I bet they cut character switching because of time constraints once Matsuda stepped in.

 

[Hibiki Kurosawa]

Just read the translation from Gematsu. Veeery transparent. I love it. I still have my reservations about the battle system, but I think it has potential. Looking forward to the demo.

Spoiler

Character switching will be in XV-2.

No character switching ;~;

Spoiler

Final Fantasy 15-2 will save us surely

We're on the same page.

 

[chadboban]

Looks really awesome and more fast paced than what they showed at TGS. Really hope this game delivers. I've been waiting WAY too long.

 

[Sinfamy]

Only Noctis is playable? R.I.P. What is the point of a multiple character party when only one is playable? Just call it Noctis appears: Final Fantasy XV. I'm finding it increasingly hard to still care about this game.

Persona 3 and Kingdom Hearts were great.

 

[duckroll]

Yes, they're still attacks. I never say basic combos.

And besides, you don't literally just hold down the attack button for everything. You can press the directional button as well, and it will change the actions. Not fully sure what this means however.

He's talking about the different types of attacks which can be triggered. If you just stand still and press the attack button, you do the standard combo chain. If you're moving in certain directions and press the attack button you might do another type of attack. If you're defending and time an attack properly you might do a different attack. Depending on where your party members are in the battlefield and how close you are to them, you might also be able to do an attack with a partner.

We already know that attacking is extremely contextual, he's just giving examples of some of the context. So it might be one button, but it can do a lot of different things if the player knows how it flows and how to take advantage of the system.

 

[brotkasten]

The battle itself looks good and I agree that people should be busy enough managing Noctis alone, but then why are they bothering with a party at all, if they're basically set pieces?

 

[Dark_castle]

It means counter-attack. You might be pressing the guard-button to block an enemy attack and if you time your attack-button correctly after blocking, you'll perform a counter-attack.

Why would you need to press a directional button if that is the case?

 

[BasilZero]

Sounds great and I don't mind only playing as micros.

 

[Kikujiro]

This game's battle system just seems to be moving further and further away from what "Final Fantasy" battles used to be all about: party management, customization and strategic battles.

Now it's just a glorified hack-n-slash game with slightly more depth than the average Dynasty Warriors game. The battle system in FFXIII was already one of the most inane systems ever. While this battle system might be a step above FFXIII, it's still miles away from where it should be.

This, of course, is just my personal opinion. I suppose the younger generation which never got to play a bonafide FF title probably wouldn't know or care about the changes. FF is essentially dead to me. Long live Persona.

EDIT: After playing and loving Lost Odyssey, I've come to accept the fact that Final Fantasy died with the departure of Hironobu Sakaguchi. I look forward to his future projects more than I do any Final Fantasy game.

Why are you completely ignoring what they said and making up your own fantasy (it's written in the freaking OP)?
You have party managment, you have strategic choice pre-battles, you have gambits, you can probably make party choice in-battle.

I don't know why it's always junior members who make the most hyperbolic statements based on nothing and made-up informations.

 

[TRI Mike]

Notice that at the beginning of the gameplay, the swords aren't teleporting into enemies but then they start doing it. It doesn't look like they're dealing damage though, the only thing damaging enemies are Noctis actual physical attacks. I wonder that the teleporting swords are doing.

 

[wmlk]

The battle in and itself looks good and I agree that people should be busy enough managing Noctis alone, but then why are they bothering with a party at all, if they're basically set pieces?

Yeah, they've gone at lengths to say how the party is actually intelligent but they've just been set pieces in the gameplay footage. I guess people are fine with that because it's a 'presentation'.

 

[-Horizon-]

We're on the same page.

Great minds think alike

 

[Novan Leon]

Can you post some footage of the battle system you played that shows how terrible it is?

I'm basing my opinions on the same information that everyone is. Do you have access to information that the rest of us don't? I see no reason to give Square the benefit of the doubt given their track record during the last generation.

 

[mrlion]

Why are you completely ignoring what they said and making up your own fantasy (it's written in the freaking OP)?
You have party managment, you have strategic choice pre-battles, you have gambits, you can probably make party choice in-battle.

I don't know why it's always junior members who make the most hyperbolic statements based on nothing and made-up informations.

He is also acting like a grandpa with his "back in my day.." statements LOL

 

[BadWolf]

The battle itself looks good and I agree that people should be busy enough managing Noctis alone, but then why are they bothering with a party at all, if they're basically set pieces?

Why not?

They are his support and will be doing actions together with him in addition to acting on their own based on gambits.

 

[duckroll]

I bet they cut character switching because of time constraints once Matsuda stepped in.

Or maybe Tabata looked at what they had, and the "experience" the staff has, and accepted that it was probably not a good idea to try and tackle third person shooting in a big game like this after all. :lol

Sometimes it's better not to have something at all, than to have something in a game and for it to be bad!

 

[MoogleWizard]

Let me guess, you did not know there is a Gambit system in this game, right? You know, the one system that enables you to tweak every single action/abilities your characters could perform in battle, all based on YOUR input/idea?

That sounds like XII, I want to control the characters myself. That game basically played itself after the gambits were set up. That is not why I expect when a game gets advertised as an action RPG. XIII doesn't seem so bad now, at least all party members were fully playable.

 

[wmlk]

Or maybe Tabata looked at what they had, and the "experience" the staff has, and accepted that it was probably not a good idea to try and tackle third person shooting in a big game like this after all. :lol

Sometimes it's better not to have something at all, than to have something in a game and for it to be bad!

Finally.

We've literally seen Prompto shoot 3 bullets. It was a promise that they couldn't deliver on, not even Tetsu-chan.

 

[IvorB]

So it sounds like everything is automatic from what I ready above. That doesn't sound too great.

 

[BadWolf]

So it sounds like everything is automatic from what I ready above. That doesn't sound too great.

Seems you haven't been reading much, at least go through the OP.

 

[Dark_castle]

He's talking about the different types of attacks which can be triggered. If you just stand still and press the attack button, you do the standard combo chain. If you're moving in certain directions and press the attack button you might do another type of attack. If you're defending and time an attack properly you might do a different attack. Depending on where your party members are in the battlefield and how close you are to them, you might also be able to do an attack with a partner.

We already know that attacking is extremely contextual, he's just giving examples of some of the context. So it might be one button, but it can do a lot of different things if the player knows how it flows and how to take advantage of the system.

Alright.

I wonder what would happen if we just press/tap the attack button rather than holding. Will it always just execute the first weapon action? Or what.

 

[Solid Samus]

Yeah, they've gone at lengths to say how the party is actually intelligent but they've just been set pieces in the gameplay footage. I guess people are fine with that because it's a 'presentation'.

Devaluing a fact about these sorts of presentations with finger quotes. Pro tier argumentation. Round of applause everyone

Im fine with it because i have the sense to know its likely not representative of the ai in the final product like the VAST MAJORITY OF SIMILAR PRESENTATIONS ON THE WEB AND AT SHOWS. Id use bold over caps but I'm on mobile.

 

[Oni3298]

Hurray for a dedicated jump button!

Looks good so far, can't wait to try the demo.