Support NeoGAF

[Novan Leon]

Why are you completely ignoring what they said and making up your own fantasy (it's written in the freaking OP)?
You have party managment, you have strategic choice pre-battles, you have gambits, you can probably make party choice in-battle.

I don't know why it's always junior members who make the most hyperbolic statements based on nothing and made-up informations.

I'm not making anything up. I read the same information you did, I'm just not convinced.

Your comment about junior members isn't worthy of a response. Given Square's track record during the last generation, being skeptical is entirely justified.

 

[wmlk]

Devaluing a fact about these sorts of presentations with finger quotes. Pro tier argumentation. Round of applause everyone

I never denied it wasn't a fact, but it's not good when there's clearly a disconnect between what they're preaching and what they're showing.

We're in a video game forum man. Settle down.

 

[x-Lundz-x]

What are you saying?

You obviously will level up everyone else and control their equipment/skills. You can even change their strategies through Gambit system. And you also can do dual/triple techs like moves with them during battles.

It just comes off to me as not as diverse as past FF games where you are leveling up your other characters and equipping different weapons etc... You are limited to one character. Maybe I am just not understanding what they are saying.

 

[duckroll]

Alright.

I wonder what would happen if we just press/tap the attack button rather than holding. Will it always just execute the first weapon action? Or what.

After the presentation today, my impression is that if you just tap the attack button you will do the standard combo.

 

[IAmRandom31]

So what's Kitase doing these days? Anyone know?

When I look at the list of FF's over the years. The one constant has been the Director of all my favorites is Kitase. Since VI anyway.

Kitase Directed : VI, VII , VIII, X, Produced on XIII.

So the ones I really didnt like lately which was IX and XII and XIII, he was not Directing.

Actually. Do we know who is doing what on this project? Like ... is Amano involved? I see Kitase is Producing again on XV but not Directing ( duh ).

According to Wikipedia the artists are Takeshi Nozue and Yusuke Naora.

I dunno, not seeing a lot of familiar names across the whole project.

 

[mrlion]

I'm not making anything up. I read the same information you have, I'm just not convinced.

Your comment about junior members isn't worthy of a response. Given Square's track record during the last generation, being skeptical is entirely justified.

I mean what is there to convince when your previous post basically said that its a glorified Dynasty Warriors when, based on the OP, that's clearly not the case...

 

[Nightengale]

At the same time, it was a tech demo. We don't know what features were turned on or off to facilitate the 2 minutes trailer that was really only to prove that the game still has all the frills from 2013 trailer.

This presentation did not somehow wipe out the TGS trailer where they clearly teased AI with some amount of depth and features, what's with them protecting Noctis once he was badly injured.

 

[Dark_castle]

After the presentation today, my impression is that if you just tap the attack button you will do the standard combo.

By standard combo, you mean the same combo that would have been executed had we hold down the attack button?

 

[BumRush]

Good stuff. To be honest, this instilled some of the confidence I lost with all of the "one button to win" chatter a few weeks back. Waking up to this news and the insane new MK10 trailer was nice.

 

[Famassu]

This game's battle system just seems to be moving further and further away from what "Final Fantasy" battles used to be all about: party management, customization and strategic battles.

Lol. FF has always been one of the most casual JRPG franchises on the planet and that's partly why it's so much more popular than your Shin Megami Tensei's etc. You can play most FFs through with just choosing the Attack command 99,9% of the time (with some skills making the games even easier, if you bothered to use them).

And there's party management, customization & strategy in action RPG combat. I'm not super-happy about you having no direct control over the other party members, but these action RPG systems can still create fucktons of strategic situations. What weapons are the most efficient to use against particular enemies, which enemies should you focus on first when you're ganged up on, when do you attack and when to get as far away from the enemy as possible, how do you position yourself in relation to the bigger enemies (do you attack them from behind? Their legs? Their head? Torso?), is there cover you can get behind to shield yourself from gun-fire, fire spells and crap, should you use magic or conserve MP for the dodging mechanic, HP & MP management in general; when to heal and when to push on attacking etc. etc. A single battle against a big monster + a group of smaller enemies like a behemoth + soldiers could have fuckton more strategy than most battles in past FFs put together ("Choose Attack -> Choose Attack -> Choose Fire Spell against an ice enemy -> Choose Attack - > Choose Attack -> Choose Attack -> Cura All -> Choose Attack -> Choose Attack").

 

[Shadow_FFVI]

I won't lie, I'm disappointed that you can't switch party members. On the other hand everything else is looking amazing.

 

[Skilletor]

I'm basing my opinions on the same information that everyone is. Do you have access to information that the rest of us don't? I see no reason to give Square the benefit of the doubt given their track record during the last generation.

Yeah. Information like dodging draining MP, having magic, being able to time specific attacks, weapons, being able to control the party member AI, airdashes, warps, etc.

You don't have to give them the benefit of the doubt, but saying this sounds like a "glorified Dynasty Warriors" is patently false.

 

[kick51]

Lol. FF has always been one of the most casual JRPG franchises on the planet and that's partly why it's so much more popular than your Shin Megami Tensei's etc. You can play most FFs through with just choosing the Attack command 99,9% of the time (with some skills making the games even easier, if you bothered to use them).

And there's party management, customization & strategy in action RPG combat. I'm not super-happy about you having no direct control over the other party members, but these action RPG systems can still create fucktons of strategic situations. What weapons are the most efficient to use against particular enemies, which enemies should you focus on first when you're ganged up on, when do you attack and when to get as far away from the enemy as possible, how do you position yourself in relation to the bigger enemies (do you attack them from behind? Their legs? Their head? Torso?), is there cover you can get behind to shield yourself from gun-fire, fire spells and crap, should you use magic or conserve MP for the dodging mechanic, HP & MP management in general; when to heal and when to push on attacking etc. etc. A single battle against a big monster + a group of smaller enemies like a behemoth + soldiers could have fuckton more strategy than most battles in past FFs put together ("Choose Attack -> Choose Attack -> Choose Fire Spell against an ice enemy -> Choose Attack - > Choose Attack -> Choose Attack -> Cura All -> Choose Attack -> Choose Attack").

For all the shit it gets, I felt XIII was really the one to break away from that. Later in the game, if you just attack, either the fight will take forever or you'll die.

 

[cnorwood]

Why are Japanese videos rarely in 1080p? :/

 

[duckroll]

By standard combo, you mean the same combo that would have been executed had we hold down the attack button?

Yes. That's the impression I get. This time he doesn't distinguish between pressing and holding when he talks about attack, only when he talks about defending, where it's clear you have to keep holding it for it to work. I imagine there are probably some situations where it is more useful to hold down attack rather than pressing it, especially if you're also moving and you don't want to lose the combo chain.

 

[brotkasten]

Why not?

They are his support and will be doing actions together with him in addition to acting on their own based on gambits.

I don't see how they're not going to be a distraction at best and something that needs to be kept alive (just like all other companion characters in other games). The combo moves with them are flashy and nice to look at, but not something you necessarily need (this is stupidly worded, sorry). I've seen nothing in the video that made me glad to have them in battle. They're just more characters in the background that keep enemies busy, while I do my awesome teleportation and attack moves.

But it's okay not to value my opinion on this, because I haven't played FF12 (only the demo, where I didn't like the battle system for similar reasons). I guess I'm going to be too biased until I play it myself.

 

[ZombieFred]

Why are Japanese videos rarely in 1080p? :/

Got to aim for all those Mobile Users over there! :lol:

....

 

[Mailbox]

That video really reminded me of the original 2006 trailer only playable.

Honestly, my hype felt a lil deflated with all the confusing battle system info a couple weeks back, but now I'm feeling better about this product.

Standard combos and jump button are ace
Though I don't know how I feel about mp usage for dodges... But maybe it works well... Who knows

 

[threelights]

It just comes off to me as not as diverse as past FF games where you are leveling up your other characters and equipping different weapons etc... You are limited to one character. Maybe I am just not understanding what they are saying.

limited to one character in terms of direct control. You only do in-game actions like jumping and attacking with Noctis.

You still manage the rest of the party, equipments, gambits, etc. You just don't play as them in the middle of battle.

 

[Dark_castle]

That sounds like XII, I want to control the characters myself. That game basically played itself after the gambits were set up. That is not why I expect when a game gets advertised as an action RPG. XIII doesn't seem so bad now, at least all party members were fully playable.

You do realize this is an Action RPG. FFXIII was not. And here, you still have full direct control over Noctis, and also a system that lets you configure your party members' specific actions in battles by tweaking their A.I.

 

[Famassu]

It just comes off to me as not as diverse as past FF games where you are leveling up your other characters and equipping different weapons etc... You are limited to one character. Maybe I am just not understanding what they are saying.

Not being able to switch to different team members in battle DOES NOT mean that there is no character customization to those other team members. You will 100% likely be able to switch their weapons & other equipment, they said there's a gambit like system you can use to alter the behaviour of the other characters and there will likely be some kind of character development system for ALL the characters and the other members won't just stay the same without learning any new spells, moves or skills throughout the game. There will maybe something like a Sphere Grid or License Board for all the characters.

 

[Orniletter]

Hmm, I'm still not entirely convinced, but will give the Duscae (?) Demo a whirl.

 

[Damerman]

I don't really care for the character switiching. In all games where i had to manage parties, especially JRPGs, in the end i always just select random skills for stray party members... i always found it annoying to choose their skills and that annoyance is exacerbated when the party doesn't gain XP simultaneously.

good riddance, i say. Bring on the gambit system and equipment perks

 

[Novan Leon]

I mean what is there to convince when your previous post basically said that its a glorified Dynasty Warriors when, based on the OP, that's clearly not the case...

I think you're giving Square too much credit. There was absolutely nothing in the OP that made me think there was any amount of depth to the combat system. Quite frankly, combos, and the combat system as a whole, sounds very shallow, easily abuse-able and completely devoid of significant strategic elements. The flashy but mundane video footage just confirms this. Hence the Dynasty Warriors comparison.

I already made it clear that this is my opinion based on the information available up to this point. I'm a skeptic. So sue me. I'm curious why so many people are up-in-arms to defend the game.

 

[BadWolf]

I don't see how they're not going to be a distraction at best and something that needs to be kept alive (just like all other companion characters in other games). The combo moves with them are flashy and nice to look at, but not something you necessarily need (this is stupidly worded, sorry). I've seen nothing in the video that made me glad to have them in battle. They're just more characters in the background that keep enemies busy, while I do my awesome teleportation and attack moves.

But it's okay not to value my opinion on this, because I haven't played FF12 (only the demo, where I didn't like the battle system for similar reasons). I guess I'm going to be too biased until I play it myself.

Ah, yeah that makes sense then why it seems foreign. The partner AI worked really well in both XII and XIII so I wouldn't worry about it.

 

[Ralemont]

This looks amazing! Those GIFs really sold me on the potential of this system.

I won't lie, I'm disappointed that you can't switch party members. On the other hand everything else is looking amazing.

Eh, I don't really feel the need to play as any of Noctis's buddies. They don't seem particularly interesting, though they could surprise me.

 

[Lady Bird]

That sounds like XII, I want to control the characters myself. That game basically played itself after the gambits were set up. That is not why I expect when a game gets advertised as an action RPG. XIII doesn't seem so bad now, at least all party members were fully playable.

We don't know how the "gambit" system works in this one, but it is implied that the "gambits" on your character must be manually triggered by pressing the Attack button. We don't know if there are defensive actions tied to a gambit system, while we have a defend button, a skill button and a warp button that are meant to be used in-combat. It's probably going to be a very different experience from FFXII, as the trailer/ gifs show already.

 

[Dead Prince]

with it being action oriented the AI better be amazingly tough and not some high attack spongy type thing. i need me some strategic gameplay. hopefully the demo can be remotely representative of that tbh.

 

[coredecepts]

Talk of character switching makes me wonder if you could play as a character like Prompto who fights with a pistol, but not have the gameplay revolve around aiming like in a shooter and instead revolve around timing and spacing like in an action game. It would probably have to be all about wind-up, reload time, and dodging.

Now that I think about it, that's kind of how King in Type-0 works.

 

[MissDeviling]

Quite frankly, combos, and the combat system as a whole, sounds very shallow, easily abuse-able and completely devoid of significant strategic elements.

Why?

 

[Kikujiro]

I'm not making anything up. I read the same information you did, I'm just not convinced.

Your comment about junior members isn't worthy of a response. Given Square's track record during the last generation, being skeptical is entirely justified.

The fact that you said it's a glorified Musou means that:
- You never played a single Musou.
- You didn't watch the footage.
- You didn't read the OP.

There are a lot of informations in the OP that clearly indicate a strategic battle system which has nothing to do with mash mash mash. So yes, you're making things up. I don't care about your opinion, but expect to be called out for making uninformed posts.

 

[wmlk]

I think you're giving Square too much credit. There was absolutely nothing in the OP that made me think there was any amount of depth to the combat system. Quite frankly, combos, and the combat system as a whole, sounds very shallow, easily abuse-able and completely devoid of significant strategic elements. The flashy but mundane video footage just confirms this. Hence the Dynasty Warriors comparison.

I already made it clear that this is my opinion based on the information available up to this point. I'm a skeptic. So sue me. I'm curious why so many people are up-in-arms to defend the game.

It's clear that the game values positioning more than anything. The Dynasty Warriors comparison is a poor one since there's no position-based gameplay in that.

 

[Village]

Teleport air combos


I HAVE THE NEEED

 

[badcrumble]

This interview basically reassured 100% of my concerns. Thank god it's still an action game.

 

[Skilletor]

I think you're giving Square too much credit. There was absolutely nothing in the OP that made me think there was any amount of depth to the combat system. Quite frankly, combos, and the combat system as a whole, sounds very shallow, easily abuse-able and completely devoid of significant strategic elements. The flashy but mundane video footage just confirms this. Hence the Dynasty Warriors comparison.

I already made it clear that this is my opinion based on the information available up to this point. I'm a skeptic. So sue me. I'm curious why so many people are up-in-arms to defend the game.

Probably because they don't interpret the information the way you do. Or maybe people have enjoyed the battle systems Square has put out in their games and have faith this will be up to par. I see nothing in this game, in the information we have or the videos we've seen, to compare it to a musou game. That you compare it to one is hyperbolic and why it's so easy to dismiss your particular strand of "criticism."

Pretty much the opposite side to the coin which makes you doubt them. It would be like me asking, "I'm curious why so many people are up in arms to bash this game."

This interview basically reassured 100% of my concerns. Thank god it's still an action game.

For sure. I was super worried you'd just be able to hold dodge until it was safe to attack. Glad to hear there will indeed be rewards for having specific timing.

 

[Kouriozan]

I think I would have preferred a more actionny FF XII battle system, but I'll see.
Only Noctis playable don't really bother me, in FF XII for example, I switched to Ashe and made her learn every Espers while removing everyone else to get more exp.

 

[Novan Leon]

Yeah. Information like dodging draining MP, having magic, being able to time specific attacks, weapons, being able to control the party member AI, airdashes, warps, etc.

You don't have to give them the benefit of the doubt, but saying this sounds like a "glorified Dynasty Warriors" is patently false.

Everything you just mentioned except the dodging mechanic has been done at some point in the Dynasty Warriors series, the Sengoku Musou series or one of their many derivatives. Nothing you listed is new, innovative or interesting in and of itself. Depth isn't about having the most "features". Merely creating a laundry list of stuff in the game doesn't give it depth or make it compelling. It's about the impact that each of those elements has on the game and how integral they are to fundamental gameplay.

I'm not going to debate you on this. There's not enough information to draw hard conclusions one way or another, but what I've seen has done nothing to soften my skepticism. I would happily be wrong. I'd love to play another "good" Final Fantasy after so many years. I'm just not getting my hopes up.

 

[ZenTzen]

Persona 3 and Kingdom Hearts were great.

and P3P and P4 are even better in terms of gameplay compared to vanilla P3/Fes, Kingdom Hearts has always been a single character control only game

but dont get me wrong, this Q&A did give answers to some of my concerns, and the only thing left he still needs to address is how magic is gonna work here and Summon stuff, the only thing we know is that theres varying degrees of summons, with leviathan, for example, being a high level summon

its still a disappointement knowing we cant change party leaders, making them essentially meat shields, but i am looking forward to hearing more about this

 

[BadWolf]

I think I would have preferred a more actionny FF XII battle system, but I'll see.
Only Noctis playable don't really bother me, in FF XII for example, I switched to Ashe and made her learn every Espers while removing everyone else to get more exp.

That's exactly what it seems to be so far imo.

 

[mrlion]

I think you're giving Square too much credit. There was absolutely nothing in the OP that made me think there was any amount of depth to the combat system. Quite frankly, combos, and the combat system as a whole, sounds very shallow, easily abuse-able and completely devoid of significant strategic elements. The flashy but mundane video footage just confirms this. Hence the Dynasty Warriors comparison.

I already made it clear that this is my opinion based on the information available up to this point. I'm a skeptic. So sue me. I'm curious why so many people are up-in-arms to defend the game.

Well...then we have conflicting opinions my friend. Not much I can say really..everything from what you said is "it sounds" or "it reads" but really until you played the game there's not much criticism you can give.

 

[Rutti]

Looks good. Since it's and ARPG I don't really care about controlling other characters. As long as there is some customization for them I'm going to be pleased.

 

[badcrumble]

The evasion system especially seems a little bit like a somewhat refined version of the way that Flee works in FFXII. If evasion's a finite resource and certain attacks can't be evaded, it should still be possible (I hope) to try to run through super-high-level areas and pick up amazing equipment but you'll need to keep on your toes the entire time.

 

[Skilletor]

Everything you just mentioned except the dodging mechanic has been done at some point in the Dynasty Warriors series, the Sengoku Musou series or one of their many derivatives. Nothing you listed is new, innovative or interesting in and of itself. Depth isn't about having the most "features". Merely creating a laundry list of stuff in the game doesn't give it depth or make it compelling. It's about the impact that each of those elements has on the game and how integral they are to fundamental gameplay.

I'm not going to debate you on this. There's not enough information to draw hard conclusions one way or another, but what I've seen has done nothing to soften my skepticism. I would happily be wrong. I'd love to play another "good" Final Fantasy after so many years. I'm just not getting my hopes up.

I never said anything of the sort. I really don't care how innovative or new something is. I care how it's implemented. You're already drawing hard conclusions by saying that it sounds easily abusable when we know very little of anything in the game other than these base mechanics. We don't know how party interactions work, the number of attacks or weapons Noctis has, what magic there will be, how many enemies, how many enemy types, how positioning affects battles, how the parties will interact with enemies, etc.

There's a lot we don't know. But what we've seen isn't at all comparable to a musou game.

 

[HeelPower]

wow...

Why is it that everytime they off this game it looks like it has a completely new battle system ?

Today looks much,much bثtter than what they've shown before.It looks closer to E3 2013.

 

[fertygo]

I thought at this point we know Noctis is the only PC because the system tied to that (team attack etc)
I can understand its a pain to had all character have their own set of combos in system they try to make.

 

[Mory Dunz]

Hiring? 55%?

Late 2016

 

[Swarna]

Someone talking shit they have absolutely no understanding, I see. KH is hardly "press X to win", especially on harder difficulty levels. The only one that was even close to that is Vanilla KHII (even then you could make a few ability changes and make the game extremely hard) and the Final Mix version dealt with that, which is finally being releaIt's outside Japan.

It's a figure of speech. And it applies to KH just as well or even better than many other games that are accused of this. None of them are literally "press X to win" either.

I played/beat vanilla 1 and 2 when I was 12-13 on pride mode or w/e. If I'm not wrong the games are mostly about pressing a single button for context sensitive actions and attacks along with watching cool set pieces. Hence "press X to win". Difficulty was mostly low as well outside of a few things like Sephiroth. So sure, maybe the difficulty itself was upped in re-releases but I was referring more to the style of gameplay rather than how hard it was.

 

[FalsettoVibe]

At 55%, any guesses as to when this game will officially release?

 

[Zhao_Yun]

This game's battle system just seems to be moving further and further away from what "Final Fantasy" battles used to be all about: party management, customization and strategic battles.

Now it's just a glorified hack-n-slash game with slightly more depth than the average Dynasty Warriors game. The battle system in FFXIII was already one of the most inane systems ever. While this battle system might be a step above FFXIII, it's still miles away from where it should be.

This, of course, is just my personal opinion. I suppose the younger generation which never got to play a bonafide FF title probably wouldn't know or care about the changes. FF is essentially dead to me. Long live Persona.

EDIT: After playing and loving Lost Odyssey, I've come to accept the fact that Final Fantasy died with the departure of Hironobu Sakaguchi. I look forward to his future projects more than I do any Final Fantasy game.

I played the "bonafide FF titles" from the past and I think people romanticize the strategic depth of older FF titles way too much. Outside of boss battles I rarely had to do anything else than using the attack button to win the fights in contrast to SMT for example.
We don't know how many possibilites we will have in terms of Party management and customization but just because the other party members are not playable doesn't mean that you can't customize their equipment and behaviour (especially if we'll get a Gambit-like system again).

To be honest, after playing LO I felt a bit better about Sakaguchi leaving since the combination of long drawn out battles and random encounters really killed the game for me.

I understand where you're coming from but I just wanted to point out that not all long-time FF fans feel like you do.

 

[Dark_castle]

Yes. That's the impression I get. This time he doesn't distinguish between pressing and holding when he talks about attack, only when he talks about defending, where it's clear you have to keep holding it for it to work. I imagine there are probably some situations where it is more useful to hold down attack rather than pressing it, especially if you're also moving and you don't want to lose the combo chain.

That's fine. For the action fanatic, the ability to button mash your way can still be fun while being backed by some form of strategic element in setting the Gambit options for Noctis and others, exploiting elemental weaknesses and so on.