Support NeoGAF

[GameSeeker]

I played Driveclub today (three hours ago).

That thing is aliasing city.

It seemed to have more stuff going on in the background with the track they had (such as trees and bushes), but even the car's dashboard was aliased to hell, and the painted lane lines on the road were shimmering as they were coming up on you. The powerlines that went around the track weren't even visible because of the heavily aliasing in the distance, whereas that was way lessened in Forza. In my opinion, Forza had way, way better image quality. Car models looked way more realistic, aliasing was nowhere near as noticeable (didn't ask if they used AA or not though), driver hands looked incredible, etc. I've also seen some videos of Forza going through foresty areas, but I didn't get to see that in person, so maybe Forza will be able to match Driveclub in the background effects will still having good IQ.

Regardless, I'll still try out Driveclub PSN+ when I get my PS4 because of course they'll be improving the game up to launch, but with the 5 minutes of hands on time I've had with the games, I've decided Forza is getting my money this November.

If you are making a decision based on 5 mins of alpha code on DriveClub you are making your decision too early. The final version of Driveclub will have an anti-aliasing solution. The AMD GCN graphics in PS4 supports several types of AA solutions. After they finish the game content and frame rate optimization, AA will be last graphics effect added to the game. Once it has a AA solution in place, the aliasing you mention will be gone.

 

[metareferential]

Why does any Forza 5 thread fill up with Driveclub-related posts?

Both negative and positive, that's just dumb. We need a new comparison-garbage-bin thread xD

 

[Always-honest]

Once it has a AA solution in place, the aliasing you mention will be gone.

I sincerely hope aliassing will be a faaaaaaaaaar less distracting factor in upcoming gen.
God how i hate jaggies.

 

[2dshmuplover]

that motion blur on the left and right hand side looks pretty intense! looking forward to the final game



yea.... the quality of the motion blur in the e3 footage seems very high. Probably running on a 7970

It was already confirmed, Forza 5 from it's reveal at E3 was running on actual X1 hardware. The difference in motion blur could be a number of factors, the only time I've known such strong implementation of it is when running in cockpit view at 30fp during replays. Which is what we could be likely seeing above. You don't need motion blur at 60fps in a racing sim.

 

[IN&OUT]

Video quality is bad, its obvious that those jaggies are caused by bad twitch stream since its even visible in the HUD. rearview mirrors shows a lot of pop ins which is weird, lightning is baked and doesn't seem natural.

overall, I expected more myself from T10. I understand its a launch title but so is DC which looks far better with better environments and dynamic lightning.

 

[SatansReverence]

After they finish the game content and frame rate optimization, AA will be last graphics effect added to the game. Once it has a AA solution in place, the aliasing you mention will be gone.

Adding AA after framerate optimisation? You're joking, right?

 

[2dshmuplover]

Why does Forza need anything other than static lighting? The SSS and IBL on the other hand are all real-time based and really impressive. Racing sims such as iRacing only feature static lighting too. In open world games like Forza Horizon dynamic time of day is a fun graphical feature but in more serious 60fps track based racers it's pretty pointless, particularly one's without 24hr endurance mode.

 

[GameSeeker]

Adding AA after framerate optimisation? You're joking, right?

Nope. After you have all your graphical effects in the game, you choose your AA method depending on what budget you have left over for AA. For example, you can drop a game from 4x MSAA to 2xMSAA or switch to FXAA depending on the frame rate hit caused by the AA solution.

 

[jet1911]

Why does Forza need anything other than static lighting? The SSS and IBL on the other hand are all real-time based and really impressive. Racing sims such as iRacing only feature static lighting too. In open world games like Forza Horizon dynamic time of day is a fun graphical feature but in more serious 60fps track based racers it's pretty pointless, particularly one's without 24hr endurance mode.

Because it add something for people to brag about their console of choice.

 

[Metalmurphy]

Can't wait for those 1080p direct feed DC videos to drop so I can see what all the aliasing/jagged city fuzz is about.

 

[SniperHunter]

Why does Forza need anything other than static lighting? The SSS and IBL on the other hand are all real-time based and really impressive. Racing sims such as iRacing only feature static lighting too. In open world games like Forza Horizon dynamic time of day is a fun graphical feature but in more serious 60fps track based racers it's pretty pointless, particularly one's without 24hr endurance mode.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQO6JHZl-Cs

...

 

[nib95]

Why does Forza need anything other than static lighting? The SSS and IBL on the other hand are all real-time based and really impressive. Racing sims such as iRacing only feature static lighting too. In open world games like Forza Horizon dynamic time of day is a fun graphical feature but in more serious 60fps track based racers it's pretty pointless, particularly one's without 24hr endurance mode.

It's anything but pointless. It adds massive value, variety and a change of racing dynamic to every track that has it. It also doest have to be 24 hour. You could start a race during sunset or sunrise. Day to night racing or vice versa on Nurbergring was arguably the most fun aspect of GT5, and some of the most engrossing and mesmerising racing/driving in any game ever.

 

[eso76]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQO6JHZl-Cs

...

pains me to see lighting is still..
AH well, that's for another thread.

 

[Metalmurphy]

It's anything but pointless. It adds massive value, variety and a change of racing dynamic to every track that has it. It also doest have to be 24 hour. You could start a race during sunset or sunrise. Day to night racing or vice versa on Nurbergring was arguably the most fun aspect of GT5, and some of the most engrossing and mesmerising racing/driving in any game ever.

And lets not forget that simply by implementing it, it means your giving the players the feature to let you choose any time of day you want, even for short races that won't take advantage of the day/night cycle.

Want to race at 9AM? You can. 03:00 AM? You can. Dawn at 6AM? You can. Dusk at 6PM? You can.

 

[dark10x]

It seemed to have more stuff going on in the background with the track they had (such as trees and bushes), but even the car's dashboard was aliased to hell, and the painted lane lines on the road were shimmering as they were coming up on you.

Where did you play it? The TVs which I tried the game on were poorly adjusted and felt over-sharpened. A poorly calibrated TV can absolutely destroy a games image quality and I didn't see a single well calibrated screen at Gamescom.

 

[2dshmuplover]

It's anything but pointless. It adds massive value, variety and a change of racing dynamic to every track that has it. It also doest have to be 24 hour. You could start a race during sunset or sunrise. Day to night racing or vice versa on Nurbergring was arguably the most fun aspect of GT5, and some of the most engrossing and mesmerising racing/driving in any game ever.

Yes but T10 do add time of day variants for various tracks, they done so with FM4 and have confirmed the same with FM5. so if you want to race with the sun setting, at dusk or with early morning mist you can. I just view it as a neat graphical effect but is of little to no consequence to the on-track action.

 

[p3tran]

guys, for the nth time, for dynamic lighting and day/night cycles, there is already forza horizon, which on top features open road gameplay.
much more fitting for those of you who'd like to get lost in a road at sunset.

now forza horizon 2 is already under development for xbone, and given how strict in schedule microsoft has been with t10, I dont see it coming out later than 2014.

 

[eso76]

guys, for the nth time, for dynamic lighting and day/night cycles, there is already forza horizon, which on top features open road gameplay.

now forza horizon 2 is already under development for xbone, and given how strict in schedule microsoft has been with t10, I dont see it coming out later than 2014.

I wouldn't mind having dynamic lighting and day/night in regular forza AT ALL.

Horizon 2 better have dynamic weather and a (much) more interesting location.
I understand desert was convenient for open world racing, but i'd like something with a little more diversity

 

[drugstore_cowboy]

And lets not forget that simply by implementing it, it means your giving the players the feature to let you choose any time of day you want, even for short races that won't take advantage of the day/night cycle.

Want to race at 9AM? You can. 03:00 AM? You can. Dawn at 6AM? You can. Dusk at 6PM? You can.

If you are only looking for an extra challenge by obscuring the view just turn the brightness down on the TV, you could turn the TV off altogether for a massive disadvantage.

Seriously, day/night is something I want to come to Forza for the pretty visuals alone but it really depends on what cost, you guys might be happy dropping frames willy nilly but I'm not and hope T10 isn't either.

Edit: I just noticed at the start of that GT5 video the setting sun seems to be hazy, also on a few other tracks it sits behinds clouds or not seen at all.

Do you ever see it blazing like in Forza? Maybe that's the secret of the natural looking light?

 

[saladine1]

I wouldn't mind having dynamic lighting and day/night in regular forza AT ALL.

Horizon 2 better have dynamic weather and a (much) more interesting location.
I understand desert was convenient for open world racing, but i'd like something with a little more diversity

Regione Siciliana

 

[2dshmuplover]

I wouldn't mind having dynamic lighting and day/night in regular forza AT ALL.

Horizon 2 better have dynamic weather and a (much) more interesting location.
I understand desert was convenient for open world racing, but i'd like something with a little more diversity

To be fair Horizon had diversity. It wasn't just desert, it was a mixture of alpine and various types of dirt-tracks. I would love to see weather in Horizon 2 though. Horizon really is a technical masterpiece for the 360, not only was it open-world but it had amazing scenery and the car models were high quality (both inside and out), it had impressive visual damage, IBL and dynamic lighting, Drivatar traffic and decent AI, not a single torn frame and locked 30fps at all time and some of the best AA I've seen on console (4xMSAA + 4xFXAA).

What a game! Cannot wait to see what they do with the sequel.

 

[p3tran]

I wouldn't mind having dynamic lighting and day/night in regular forza AT ALL.

Horizon 2 better have dynamic weather and a (much) more interesting location.
I understand desert was convenient for open world racing, but i'd like something with a little more diversity

I wouldn't mind either, of course.
but the real question here is: in expense of what?

horizon was the answer to that, having double the time to process each frame, there was a lot of room for stuff that could not fit forza motorsport without taking something out, even on the ol' 360.


the fact that forza 5 launches without day/night cycles, although they have their codebase and logic from horizon, for me it says its all about performance.
they will get there eventually, and I also hope that xbone hardware will be good enough for a horizon at 60fps.


now, if forza 5 in contrast was announced as a rain/fog/snow/night/dawn/dusk title, but in 30FPS, then there would be big problems

so, thats what i say:
what are you willing to give up in your trackday racer to have nights?
framerate? vertical sync? less physics? less sound? less gfx? less cars on road? personally I'm willing to trade none of the above.

 

[Y2Kev]

I was actually super impressed with FH on my 720p TV, but when I upgraded to 1080p it felt a little blurry to me. I guess FXAA + upscaling will do that.

 

[travisbickle]

Is this real life lol. It's physically impossible for a tree shadow to remain absolutely static on the same position of a bonnet etc whilst a car is moving, especially as fast as it is. The cars distance from the tree is constantly evolving and that would be reflected by the positioning and warp of the shadow. .

I'm not saying it remains static, I'm saying it appears to "stand still" momentarily because of the movement of the car. We know how
the lighting works, and we know it's not real
Life, and it looks like you've found the trick that the shadows cast on the car are on a single vertical plane rather than bending across the different surfaces.

 

[eso76]

so, thats what i say:
what are you willing to give up in your trackday racer to have nights?

499€

 

[2dshmuplover]

so, thats what i say:
what are you willing to give up in your trackday racer to have nights?
framerate? vertical sync? less physics? less sound? less gfx? less cars on road? personally I'm willing to trade none of the above.

Me neither. Hell to the no.

 

[Xanadu]

I was actually super impressed with FH on my 720p TV, but when I upgraded to 1080p it felt a little blurry to me. I guess FXAA + upscaling will do that.

fxaa is shite yes

 

[p3tran]

499€

hehe, (un)fortunately, money cant buy weather effects in forza, yet

 

[Metalmurphy]

If you are only looking for an extra challenge by obscuring the view just turn the brightness down on the TV, you could turn the TV off altogether for a massive disadvantage.

Seriously, day/night is something I want to come to Forza for the pretty visuals alone but it really depends on what cost, you guys might be happy dropping frames willy nilly but I'm not and hope T10 isn't either.

Edit: I just noticed at the start of that GT5 video the setting sun seems to be hazy, also on a few other tracks it sits behinds clouds or not seen at all.

Do you ever see it blazing like in Forza? Maybe that's the secret of the natural looking light?

Not enough facepalms in the world.

 

[IN&OUT]

I wouldn't mind either, of course.
but the real question here is: in expense of what?

horizon was the answer to that, having double the time to process each frame, there was a lot of room for stuff that could not fit forza motorsport without taking something out, even on the ol' 360.


the fact that forza 5 launches without day/night cycles, although they have their codebase and logic from horizon, for me it says its all about performance.
they will get there eventually, and I also hope that xbone hardware will be good enough for a horizon at 60fps.


now, if forza 5 in contrast was announced as a rain/fog/snow/night/dawn/dusk title, but in 30FPS, then there would be big problems

so, thats what i say:
what are you willing to give up in your trackday racer to have nights?
framerate? vertical sync? less physics? less sound? less gfx? less cars on road? personally I'm willing to trade none of the above.

Reading your comment gave me the impression that Forza 5 sacrificed dynamic lightning in order to be such a visual king !! which is sadly not true.

GT5 offer dynamic lightning, Day/night cycles and run @ 60FPS all in 8 years old PS3.

DC in the other hand offer such variations + blowing Forza 5 visually.


I shouldn't really have brought GT to the discussion since we all know that PD are out of the world in what they do. but yeah, my point stands still.

 

[p3tran]

Reading your comment gave me the impression that Forza 5 sacrificed dynamic lightning in order to be such a visual king !! which is sadly not true.

GT5 offer dynamic lightning, Day/night cycles and run @ 60FPS all in 8 years old PS3.

DC in the other hand offer such variations + blowing Forza 5 visually.


I shouldn't really have brought GT to the discussion since we all know that PD are out of the world in what they do. but yeah, my point stands still.

yeah, well, you know what? when gt5 finally accomplishes 60hz locked,
let alone 60hz locked with BASIC racing things like standing starts put back, why dont you send me a memo then? ok?
until then, bringing up gt5 as an example of 60hz locked racing gameplay, is a failure.

 

[Metalmurphy]

yeah, well, you know what? when gt5 finally accomplishes 60hz locked,
let alone 60hz locked with BASIC racing things like standing starts put back, why dont you send me a memo then? ok?
until then, bringing up gt5 as an example of 60hz locked racing gameplay, is a failure.

Yes, because GT5 is like 20 FPS when all is said and done am I right? GT5 is 60fps 90% of the time, stop pretending it's something else terrible and that those occasional frame drops ruin the game. If I had to choose between all the features with the framerate it has now, and a vsynced 60fps, I'd go for the former, every time.

Also, you need to race more online, nothing but standing starts.

 

[p3tran]

Yes, because GT5 is like 20 FPS when all is said and done am I right?

no, its not 20hz at all, but its very far from what i would bring up as an example of rock-solid 60hz gameplay, like our friend above did.

 

[Metalmurphy]

no, its not 20hz at all, but its very far from what i would bring up as an example of rock-solid 60hz gameplay, like our friend above did.

I didn't see him say rock solid 60 fps gameplay.

Also, stop saying Hz, it's silly.

 

[derFeef]

I didn't see him say rock solid 60 fps gameplay.

Also, stop saying Hz, it's silly.

Did you just call John Carmack silly?

 

[adelante]

Reading your comment gave me the impression that Forza 5 sacrificed dynamic lightning in order to be such a visual king !! which is sadly not true.

GT5 offer dynamic lightning, Day/night cycles and run @ 60FPS all in 8 years old PS3.

DC in the other hand offer such variations + blowing Forza 5 visually.


I shouldn't really have brought GT to the discussion since we all know that PD are out of the world in what they do. but yeah, my point stands still.

No, you should've acknowledged that DC's running at half the framerate, hence all the extra visual effects that's afforded to the developers.

 

[p3tran]

I didn't see him say rock solid 60 fps gameplay.

Also, stop saying Hz, it's silly.

well, the discussion was about how we have to give up something in order to have something, and he brought up gt5 as the example of have-it-all.

as you know, thats not the case.

gt5 when it first came out, you remember how it was. even today, still cannot claim that it does all AND framerate does not take a hit.
both framerate drops and screen tearing are still there, exist under various strain conditions.

 

[AgentP]

I didn't see him say rock solid 60 fps gameplay.

Also, stop saying Hz, it's silly.

Hz is a valid unit, its just more generic than fps.

 

[chubigans]

Read wildly varying impressions
Look at user names

Makes sense

Bwahaha, I am slightly guilty of this.

I'm just waiting for that direct feed DC vid this week. Should put my concerns to rest.

 

[nib95]

Can't wait for those 1080p direct feed DC videos to drop so I can see what all the aliasing/jagged city fuzz is about.

Me too. Should be interesting lol.

 

[MoneyHats]

Those jaggies..

New respect for DriveClubs graphics.

Jesus H Christ on a rubber bicycle... I can't wait for unbiased takes on Forza 5. Some serious meltdowns when its crowned the best looking racer next gen, I'm confident it will.

 

[dark10x]

well, the discussion was about how we have to give up something in order to have something, and he brought up gt5 as the example of have-it-all.

as you know, thats not the case.

gt5 when it first came out, you remember how it was. even today, still cannot claim that it does all AND framerate does not take a hit.
both framerate drops and screen tearing are still there, exist under various strain conditions.

From what I recall, however, the current version of GT5, when run in 720p mode, operates at 60 Hz 99% of the time. In 1280x1080 it definitely drops more.

GT6 Academy version has the same issue (even worse, really). 1440x1080p mode runs like shit while the 720p mode is flawless.

 

[SniperHunter]

Me too. Should be interesting lol.

it will be PS4's ridge racer v

 

[nib95]

From what I recall, however, the current version of GT5, when run in 720p mode, operates at 60 Hz 99% of the time. In 1280x1080 it definitely drops more.

GT6 Academy version has the same issue (even worse, really). 1440x1080p mode runs like shit while the 720p mode is flawless.

This is true. 60fps fans just need to play in 720p. Personally I play in 1080p. The extra IQ imo is definitely worth the few drops in frame rate.

 

[SniperHunter]

Jesus H Christ on a rubber bicycle... I can't wait for unbiased takes on Forza 5. Some serious meltdowns when its crowned the best looking racer next gen, I'm confident it will.

hahah i am bookmarking this post

 

[GrayFoxPL]

it will be PS4's ridge racer v

Be still my heart!

RRV - best racer ever.

 

[Red Chocobo]

when I upgraded to 1080p it felt a little blurry to me. I guess FXAA + upscaling will do that.

Some people may scoff at the idea. But turning the sharpness up a little on your TV helps quite a bit (If you have a good TV)

 

[nib95]

Jesus H Christ on a rubber bicycle... I can't wait for unbiased takes on Forza 5. Some serious meltdowns when its crowned the best looking racer next gen, I'm confident it will.

I think you're going to end up being very disappointed lol.

 

[2dshmuplover]

DC in the other hand offer such variations + blowing Forza 5 visually.

The car models in Drive Club are not even remotely in the same league as FM5. It runs at half the fps with drops and tearing, there's no AI opponents and it features arcade physics. Drive Club has some nice scenery and it's quite pretty but Forza is doing a lot more under the hood.

 

[blastprocessor]

If you are making a decision based on 5 mins of alpha code on DriveClub you are making your decision too early. The final version of Driveclub will have an anti-aliasing solution. The AMD GCN graphics in PS4 supports several types of AA solutions. After they finish the game content and frame rate optimization, AA will be last graphics effect added to the game. Once it has a AA solution in place, the aliasing you mention will be gone.

How do you know this?