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New Gunda-- Warhawk debate thread (aka DoomBringer melts)
- Thread starter Doom_Bringer
- Start date
DCharlie said:
Ah... but my point is; without even having ascertained what you were looking at (E3 build apparently), and without taking into context the shots (poor quality cam shot off a TV, boring landscape), you and many others in this thread were ready to jump the gun and sing the downgradestation tune...
which is in direct opposition to your advice to me.
But I guess you've learned from experience.
DCharlie
And even i am moderately surprised
okay... my outstanding bet with Vennt is the game will not match the obvious CG clips that some people thought were real time back in 05.
that included animation , physics, models the whole lot.
The models look damn close and they've done a fantastic job - i look forward to seeing how close they come, but i still maintain they'll never match the CG initially shown (the one where the gundamn pulls the other machine through the fully destructable environment
)lets not forget here, you are taking these direct feed shots and making the excuses the other way, so lets not pretend this is a one way thing
or is that a tactit admission that if the game does look like these shots in real time then i do, infact, win?
DCharlie
And even i am moderately surprised
okay... my outstanding bet with Vennt is the game will not match the obvious CG clips that some people thought were real time back in 05.
that included animation , physics, models the whole lot.
The models look damn close and they've done a fantastic job - i look forward to seeing how close they come, but i still maintain they'll never match the CG initially shown (the one where the gundamn pulls the other machine through the fully destructable environment
)lets not forget here, you are taking these direct feed shots and making the excuses the other way, so lets not pretend this is a one way thing
or is that a tactit admission that if the game does look like these shots in real time then i do, infact, win? In which clip does a gundam pull another machine through a building?
I just rewatched the gundam clip from the 2005 conference, and it does look really impressive; limbs been blown off, volumetric smoke/explosions rising from missed shots, and just overall really good lighting...
but there wasn't any visible building destruction in that clip.
I think I remember a second clip where there is a unit falling through a building...
but the building destruction there looked primitive to be honest; tiled blocks for debris, which erupted from the building, as the gundam fell through it....
I wouldn't doubt something like that can be done in real time.
Anyway, given the quality of the screenshots, the jury is still out on whether the initial 'CG' can be achieved in real time or not.
But, regardless some of the detractors have jumped the gun (not necessarily you; but I'm not willing to dredge through 5 pages of madness to confirm or deny that), with ridiculously hyperbolic statements, based off some poor quality and premature to boot shots.
I just rewatched the gundam clip from the 2005 conference, and it does look really impressive; limbs been blown off, volumetric smoke/explosions rising from missed shots, and just overall really good lighting...
but there wasn't any visible building destruction in that clip.
I think I remember a second clip where there is a unit falling through a building...
but the building destruction there looked primitive to be honest; tiled blocks for debris, which erupted from the building, as the gundam fell through it....
I wouldn't doubt something like that can be done in real time.
Anyway, given the quality of the screenshots, the jury is still out on whether the initial 'CG' can be achieved in real time or not.
But, regardless some of the detractors have jumped the gun (not necessarily you; but I'm not willing to dredge through 5 pages of madness to confirm or deny that), with ridiculously hyperbolic statements, based off some poor quality and premature to boot shots.
DCharlie
And even i am moderately surprised
see - this is what is confusing
you are saying on one hand it's can't be ascertained whether these match the CG or not, yet you are inviting me and Ami to eat crow in the other thread. So i'm assuming these shots are good enough if you want to prove it matches the CG, but don't show anything that would support and detractors goals, and ... are also inconclusive?
that's covering all bases !
Again, i think the shots look good - great infact, but whether the game matches the CG remains to be seen and _again_ i still stand by the belief they won't because of who the developer is and the quality of the initial CG. I don't think that is too crazy - but the shots DO look great so far.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
DCharlie said:
Oh so now it's about the animation? :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol
You lost. Admit it. You mad?
DCharlie said:
Not so confusing if you stop referring to the animations (which of course can't be ascertained from the stills); the screens aren't totally conclusive, I'll admit that much, but they show the game far far from 'total downgradeton' hyperbole that Ami was spewing on the first page.
My mistake in this case would simply have been lumping you in with Ami, while been too lazy to go back and read what you originally wrote. Although in my defense, your jab provided a convenient segue into calling out the original detractors in this thread before it got massively derailed.
is anyone seriously arguing that the actual game resembles the early target footage? watch the movies again. if you've seen the movies recently and still think the game is close...i don't even know what to tell you. the modeling of the mechs isn't terribly different, but everything else is.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
DCharlie said:
Yep sure was. After seeing the game at TGS, I didn't need to see anymore. It only made sense.
But seriously people (you included) need to jump off the "downgraded am total" hype train after seeing blurry photograph pics and bad magazine scans. The samething happened to Lair about 2 weeks ago with the Ami scans.
At least wait until you see direct feed to joke on the game.
DCharlie
And even i am moderately surprised
*sigh* and what does this have to do with me saying this is "downgraded am total" - i've already said i think this game looks GREAT, just not up to the CG. That's a far cry from DOWNGRADE AM TOTAL.
AND on the other hand we have people in this thread pulling this line about using blurry shots, whilst nodding to the same blurry shots as proof that people who doubted the game could match the MOVING CG should be eating crow...
err.... you know you watched the CG reel there right?
i must admit though, if i saw the CG reel and then watched the same CG reel again a bit later, i'd think they'd totally matched it.
and again, see above - it was always about the animation and physics in the original trailer - again, something we haven't seen which is another reason i'm not on the DOWNGRADE AM TOTAL bandwagon - although i am teasingly preping Vennt for the lost of 10 quid.
drohne said:
If you've been following... the only things we have to base opinion off are some low quality scans and screencaps.
In among the scans are some small shots of city environments, where things are actually looking pretty good, and more inline with the original trailer then the desert setting.
Otherwise, we don't have any new footage to say anything else.
Besides... my point of reference would be the original TGS behind doors clip, which was allegedly playable; I personally don't think the game would have become worse than that; and at the time, people were using that clip as proof of how it was still as good as the initial E3 trailer showed it would be (although admittedly, that clip was as small and grainy as these new shots).
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
drohne said:
The scans don't show anything other than the models. You can see the lighting, physics, or animation. What do you want us to say?
DCharlie
And even i am moderately surprised
well, (not that you said it) people saying "you should eat crow for doubting" and then questioning that "oh so it's about the animation! OH YOU LOST" would be a start....
seriously, why do you boys want it both ways?
again, you want these scans to prove that the game matches the CG, but on the other hand you are reasonable in saying it doesn't prove anything.... you don't think that's unreasonable?!
effectively the message is : This proves that the CG is matched, but it doesn't prove that the CG was not matched because we can't see it moving.
... which registers a big fat "HUH?!"
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
DCharlie said:
My bad DC I'm getting you and Ami mix up for some reason when I was thinking about the downgrade am total.
BUT the videoclips and pictures that had me conviced were from this.
have you never seen this video or these pictures before?
DCharlie
And even i am moderately surprised
no problems Mac, i'm not meaning to vent, i'm just a little frustrated!
the models certainly matched in the realtime demo, but the physics, destructable environs/mechs, and (Especially) the frame rate were a long way off.
Back in 2005, my point was that i expected something to not match up because there was so much missing - i guess back then the debate for some (not me!) was (in a round about way) does the PS3 have the extra oomph to complete the game to match the CG. And given the details on the PS3 at the time, perhaps that isn't too crazy.
For me personally, i just thought the animation and physics quality in the CG was too much for a developer of Bandais quality and that i expected something to get cut back along the way - i don't think i ever mentioned that i expected the models to degrade.
Again, i think the new shots look absolute fine, so - it is true - that we need to see it in motion to see how it stands up, but i personally would get a kick out of looking at bashed up Zaku's all day
meltpotato
Member
kaching said:
the irony is RICH.
and you are completely right. lots of gun-jumping
hukasmokincaterpillar
Member
DCharlie said:
They are the ying to your yang?
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=3958390&postcount=22
Not that this game isnt going to be crap regardless. At first I was optimistic that a Namco crew was working on it. Now that doesnt seem to mean what it used to.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
hukasmokincaterpillar said:
yeah DC that's the quote I was thinking about. The pay up thing. Where's our money? :lol
this game was playable at e3. we've seen it. it moves like a generic mech game. it's not going to turn into a cg film before launch. not if you were to put kojima's team on it. this "WAIT FOR THE FINISHED PRODUCT" stuff isn't just madness, it's madness masquerading as GOOD COMMON HORSE SENSE
and i don't have any interest in serving crow -- i don't remember if i participated in that whole gundam debacle, but i remember hoping that the game would look that way. i'm not trying to prove a point. i'm just a reasonably exacting graphics whore.
and i don't have any interest in serving crow -- i don't remember if i participated in that whole gundam debacle, but i remember hoping that the game would look that way. i'm not trying to prove a point. i'm just a reasonably exacting graphics whore.
Hey, man, I'm just trying to get people to handle their bets in a nice, orderly fashion. It doesn't matter how badly one fighter has been beating another, money shouldn't change hands until the fight is officially over.drohne said:
By all accounts, this dev team is still beating any odds that people would have placed on them to even achieve this level of results in the first place.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Oda said:
No because that would mean you would have to give credit to the game. Which a few people don't want to do.