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New interview with Cerny, goes into detail about PS4 hardware
- Thread starter phosphor112
- Start date
mugurumakensei
Member
It's not really necessary for all the OS to be in memory at all times. 512 MB should be enough for all the always running features.
I can balloon up when the home button or whatever is pressed.
SolidSnakex
Member
Well, the PS3's sales really took off once they removed the PS2 BC. I think that shows that most consumers really don't view BC as some make or break feature. It's nice to have, but those consumers want to buy a PS4 to play PS4 games.
phosphor112
Banned
I think you're reading into it too much.
I'm not sure what that part says either. If anything that part was more difficult to read than others.
Zoe
Member
Considering how you're supposed to be able to start playing the game before it finishes downloading, it won't be like the PS3.
test_account
XP-39C²
I would guess that CD support was dropped because it means one less diode in the laser head (instead of three diodes, they now have two instead, one for DVD and one for Bluray).
By the time 4K TV's becomes common enough to warrant games support, we will be discussing the PS5.
Crimson_Gold
Member
I doubt it'll be anything like the PS3. They've already discussed being able to play games as they are downloaded.
Right, and PS4 uses an APU.
HSA is itself a collection of tech on a roadmap, some of which is software, some of which is hardware, not all of which is yet realised.
The article is making the point that PS4 is using some proprietary SCE optimisations (like the ACE changes, the onion+ gpu cache pass through) and not 'just' technology from the AMD HSA roadmap. It's not saying 'it doesn't use HSA'. It's saying it doesn't 'just' use off-the-shelf HSA stuff.
(I think!
)They said that when game will be downloaded you can play so this means no longer content is packed like it used to. It will work like steam
AgentP
Thinks mods influence posters politics. Promoted to QAnon Editor.
HSA isn't a thing anyhow, so the same idea can be done in many ways outside the HSA foundation.
Marty Chinn
Member
That's a bit odd.... how do you omit music CDs like that? Isn't it just software at that point?
mugurumakensei
Member
It means they don't have to pay licensing for the audio codec used on CDs.
That's my interpretation as well ..
phosphor112
Banned
Right, and PS4 uses an APU.
HSA is itself a collection of tech on a roadmap, some of which is software, some of which is hardware, not all of which is yet realised.
The article is making the point that PS4 is using some proprietary SCE optimisations (like the ACE changes) and not 'just' technology from the AMD HSA roadmap. It's not saying 'it doesn't use HSA'. It's saying it doesn't 'just' use off-the-shelf HSA stuff.
(I think!
Good point, I'll make the correction.
By that translated article Cerny said that they couldn't implement it so they had to do their own things with it. (if translation is good). This means they clearly wanted that feature in AMD fashion (since both chips are AMD)
Now they could talk a bit if there are VUs rumored. That would be really interesting.
Nice Edit. Lol.
It was an obvious necessity. You take the hit now and get on to x86. The developers are happy now, and you have a clear path to upgrade in the future.
If they market the PS4 correctly, consumers will not have to wonder what the PS4 does that the PS3 can't. If they sell the features along with the games I think the lack of BC, realistically, is a moot point.
also no one except the people on this forum ever use BC
joking
Zoe
Member
A correction was made to the article saying that the drive can read CD's--the system just won't support playback of music CD's.
Didn't they say that it'd be up to each developer to support a control scheme that works on the vita?
Marty Chinn
Member
Wait, I thought traditional redbook audio was not compressed. It's just more or less raw audio; what codec is involved? Even if there is one, that cost has to be trivial at this point. Even on the scope of millions of units, it's gotta be trivial.
Killing_Joke
Member
Not really. Devs/Publishers want to be able to rerelease old games. HD collections, PS1/2 Classics, and XBLA is good money. If PS4/Durango had full BC it would kill any type of future business. So even though it sucks for us, Sony has their hands tied.
Yeah well I wouldn't correlate removing BC with higher sales. I think it was the combination of cheaper price, slim model, free online that propelled the system to pick up sales.
I'd also like to say that people do care about playing things other than PS4 games when you see how many HD collections were made this gen and how favorable of a response they got.
So with the PS3 you did end up having quite a bit of the ps2 catalogue released making the PS3 into a machine that had games from the ps1, ps2, and ps3.
It's going to be way harder to get people to buy these games again though when people have already bought them and the fact there's just no as big thing you can to do with a game as take it from SD to HD.
IDK I agree that Sony is doing a ton of smart stuff with the system, but not having BC in my opinion could be something that holds back the PS4 from selling enough to succeed and with high development cost's I feel that a console needs to succeed early on for it to prosper.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
That also coincided with a price drop IIRC. Also, the more multimedia functions these devices and the software applications beyond games provide the more backward compatibility matters. What happens to Netflix? What happens to the PlayTV software? Etc... Is PS4 starting from scratch on all that? How long will. It take for the platform to fill those deficiencies?
I think that BC is currently a big strength for iOS and Android as it has always been for Windows and to a limited extent MacOS/OS X... If those platforms restarted from scratch losing tons of features each time a new HW model is released you can expect developers and users to be very angry IMHO... Just imagine an Apple Maps-gate on a larger scale.
test_account
XP-39C²
Vita updates can easily be downloaded in the background and it doesnt take long to install them. Or how do you mean with being intrusive? The firmware updates havnt been intrusive at all in my experience. They have taken less than 5 minutes or so each time =)They also said the PSVita updates wouldn't be intrusive, though.
I want to see the process before getting excited.
Oh, i see, thanks. That is strange, why not allow music playback if CDs can be read? What else are CDs used for in these days (also for backup of files i know, but that doesnt seem like something that can be used on the PS4 anyway).
E3 2013. Sony's presentation. The last game was shown. Jack Tretton walks out again.
"I have a comment about persistent rumors regarding our platform.
I wanted to take this opportunity to address these." He pauses.
"Let me be crystal clear before I make my next statements: We are a games machine. We have the games."
The crowd cheers, anticipating greatness.
"Thanks. This doesn't mean we forgot about the other entertainment products that you use in your balanced life."
The crowd goes silent.
"I'm proud to announce that the Music-CD functionality has been kept and you will be able to play any music-CD you can find."
*BOOM* Sony dominates E3.
Crimson_Gold
Member
Actually it is mandatory except for in the instances given in the OP. I believe that Remote Play may be limited in distance in its initial implementation and gain range as the generation moves on.
The Witcher developer talks about the PS4 and Vita interaction:
The touchpad gives us extra opportunities," he continued, "but it's too early to talk about
Perhaps not re-releases, but if you think about the way they can monetize gaikai, you pay a subscription fee that lets you access their entire library of games ala Netflix. Not having BC would make sense in this type of business plan.
Strictly my opinion, but the only HD collections I got were for games that were trying to do way too much on the consoles they originated on. God of War 1/2 on PS2 suffered terrible screen tearing that was corrected. Shadow of the Colossus was playable in a framerate that didn't give you a headache on PS3.
I regrettably bought Jak HD collection for trophies and regretted it since the game was virtually unchanged and I haven't done the same thing since.
Not sure I follow, or what translation your referring to.
But I would say that the state of the art in APU tech today does not fully realise the entire 'HSA' vision.
The roadmap extends years into the future.
The article makes the point that Sony introduced some of their own optimisations to (they hope) improve on what AMD was offering off-the-shelf from their APU tech in 2013.
(For example, something that is down on the AMD APU roadmap for the future is better context switching between graphics and compute so you can more viably mix the two types of task on one set of GPU resources. Sony's ACE changes are addressing the same problem, except today, in time for PS4)
fuzzyreactor
Banned
You have been on a roll lately with the terrible post.
mugurumakensei
Member
DRM checks yo. Traditional redbook audio would be fine but lots of CDs these days have DRM attached that requires increased dev time to implement. It's not worth it anymore these days since people will be more likely to have MP3s of their music.
They will be happy paying 100$ less for their new console.
PS3 wasn't really PS3 it was PS1+PS2+PS3. No wonder why there was 499 price tag back then
You see I feel the total opposite of this. There's a reason why people buy Apps from the Itunes store and it's because of customer relations.
If for every new Iphone you bought there was a new store that wouldn't let you play the games you've bought in the past, that you best believe nobody would be buying a fucking thing off the App store and it would be a wasteland.
Anyone that think's differently is delusional especially developers if they think they can get away with re-selling these games again.
phosphor112
Banned
In the end, greater dev support is more important because that support is what customers end up wanting most.
I'm bitter that BC is gone.. but now that it's gone forever, you gotta let go.
Unknown One
Member
Consumers rather have a system that cost 100 dollars less. Keep your PS3, it's not like they are going to stop selling it when the PS4 releases.
There's a new iphone every year, a console releases every six. I don't want to pay the price of a new console with old hardware in it when i have it already next to my tv. Why should i have to pay more or have my new gadget compromised (same price, less new components in order to make space for the old ones) for something i already own?
LiquidMetal14
hide your water-based mammals
Yeah I would lol hard if he said that.
Either way I think they're making the right calls to keep costs in check and also have a powerful robust machine.
Zoe
Member
I thought CD's that used DRM couldn't be called audio CD's (couldn't carry the logo). At least that was the case with Avex's CCCD's.
BruceLeeRoy
Banned
I think because Sony is setting the system up so theoretically they will never have to compromise on BC again people will overlook it this time. It's the next next system though that I would personally be shocked wasn't fully compatible.
°°ToMmY°°;51584568 said:
I'm not saying you should wan't anything. I'm just saying that in 2013 the general public, not the hardcore, are going to wonder why the hell they should buy a new console that doesn't support any of their old games when their Ipads/Iphones do.
And then when the system launches with a practically empty store that has let's say "The Witness" people will wonder why the hell they would buy a game from a company that doesn't guarantee that digital goods will transfer over to the next system when they can get that same exact game for their Ipad and feel much more comfortable that it will work on Ipads for the rest of their lives.