TekunoRobby
Tag of Excellence
Kleegamefan, the PS3 WILL have the 360 beat in terms of physics and simulations. Aside from that I think the games will be quite similar in power with a possible PS3 edge.
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New photos from Sony's conference (R&C, Warhawk, Motorstorm etc.)
- Thread starter gofreak
- Start date
Kleegamefan said:
Well, you have to remember that final X360 kits didn't come until August of last year, and developers were using a lower specced CPU + an X800 (WTF!) for the time being, and weren't able to take huge advantage of the special abilities of GPU either. Even the games out in March didn't have that much time either on final kits, compared to what they were working on. Sony has had a smoother transition from early dev kits to final dev kit hardware, as the setups are much closer.
I've read a ton of comments in the development community that Xbox 360 is much more powerful than they imagined. Which means developers have been shooting low with their targets on unfinished hardware. End of 2006, going into 2007 is going to be a better barometer of what the X360 can truly do.
mashoutposse
Ante Up
TekunoRobby said:
I don't think 'vindicated' is the word here
Let's be real, there isn't anything "PS2" in any of those shots.
TekunoRobby
Tag of Excellence
I guess you're not paying close attention to the texturing or the environments or how they pale in comparison to the target renders at E3. So yeah it's the right word there kiddo.mashoutposse said:I don't think 'vindicated' is the word here
Let's be real, there isn't anything "PS2" in any of those shots.
Kleegamefan
K. LEE GAIDEN
Raven. said:
I get what you are saying and I think this is going to be an issue that MS will have to address eventually...
Both MS and Sony have (largely)the same 3rd party support and MS is doing some good stuff with game "deals" like the Mass Effect trilogy, Crackdown, Too Human Trilogy, Shadowrun and some others..
The "problem" for them (as I see it) is the fact that Sony is also doing these types of "deals" (Lair, Broken Saints, Insomniac stuff, Level 5 stuff) plus they have a HUGE stable of big talent in Sony Worldwide studios (Polyphony Digital, team ICO, Naughy Dog, Zipper, SCEE, Sony Bend...the list goes on and on) all working on PS3 stuff....
For some reason, MS claims they are producing fewer games this time around than they did with Xbox....and while I do admire their desire for quality over quantity, their major competitor (Sony) have lots of proven franchises coming (not just one franchise, like Halo) and in my view, the largest software company in the world (MS) needs to invest in more software....or sony are going to kill them in this area...
MS really, really need to invest in more interal software because the Japanese Xbox 360 3rd party devs will run out of patience if things don't improve quickly and drastically....who is to say they wont scale back support if they cant rely on good sales in Japan....Sony is strong in Japan both with 3rd party developers as well as their own Japanese studios, whose games have strong followings in Japan (GT, Everybody Golf, ect.)
To be fair, it takes time, hard work and a little bit of luck to have first and 2nd party talent like Sony and Nintendo especially...thing is, Sony don't have to rely on 1st/2nd party games, unlike Nintendo..
Aquiring Rare is a big step in the right direction...I don't care what anyone says, this group has mega talent and will produce a big, must have game on X360...its just a matter of time...Sony missed the boat on this..
Rare and Bungie can only do so much...they need some more experience studios with established franchises because Sony World Wide studios will bring it, have no fear...
Mrbob said:
Yeah, Mark Rein of epic said the X360 was a lot more powerful than he expected but is he talking about just graphics??
There will be some X360 games that will look just out of this world....expecially if they can get someone from Japan to take a chance with X360 and just go all out on a game...
These games might even have graphics better than the best PS3 game, but again, will it just be pretty graphics and thats it?(not that there is anything wrong with that)
TekunoRobby, your option is these textures are PS2 quality....My opinion is...WTF are you talking about???
Count Chocula
Banned
TekunoRobby said:
yeah it looks pretty astounding even in pics. I can only imagine what the ICO team is working on.
TekunoRobby said:
Well, we need to give the developers some time. They have 7 months to go. Ghost Recon Advanced Warfighter X360 didn't look all that hot a couple months ago, and this is because the developers had not implemented the high resolution textures into the game yet. Once they were there, it made a huge difference, and the game looks stunning.
Klee said:
A triple core CPU is still extremely powerful. From all accounts, must developers don't even know how to handle multi threading very well yet. I'm actually a little surprised how big a jump we have seen in X360 games lately, and how good some early PS3 games look. The learning curve is going to be much bigger this coming generation, which means we should be seeing steady improvements at a longer pace. Also, we can't discount tools like XNA. This could be a huge boon for Xbox 360 development. If you haven't read up on it, you should read about it here:
www.microsoft.com/xna
This could be the biggest thing to happen to game development in years.
Kleegamefan
K. LEE GAIDEN
Mrbob said:
Don't get me wrong..I am not saying X360 can't do great physics...
I am saying the current PERCEPTION is:Sony whips Microsoft in this area and current games/demos reinforce this fact......its as if on one hand you can have "pretty" and "dumb" and on the other hand you can have "pretty" and "smart" (this is a big generalization by me, but I am just trying to get a point accross)....again this is just the general perception, with which I agree....hopefully we will see some physics/AI/ect. showcases on X360 too....I am all for it
BTW, XNA tools are not exclusive to X360...PC/PS3/Rev games can use it too, though you can be sure X360 will get the best updates first
TekunoRobby
Tag of Excellence
Oh yeah definitely, that's why I offer a counter-balance to my original stance by adamantly saying how impressive E3 will be. Cell has legs and we just saw hints of it at GDC, now they need to work on improving the graphical fidelity but that comes with time.Mrbob said:
TekunoRobby said:
The textures are definitely less sharp than in the E3 target video, but why bother bringing up the environments? The GDC demo's focus wasn't on the environments.
So we currently have excellent models with high-res textures not implemented yet. I don't see how this is enough to either proclaim doom 'n' gloom or success for MotorStorm at this point.
TekunoRobby
Tag of Excellence
It's not, I don't get it either. These are games that have such a long way to go in development that assuming the final product will be of the same caliber is insanity. Come E3 there will probably be a good difference in quality.Ceb said:
TekunoRobby said:
Budgets, team sizes and schedules will have a bigger effect on graphics for both systems than their relative power differences will. Right now, the biggest advantage PS3 has for games isn't Blu Ray, certainly isn't cell and isn't even RSX. It's the default HDD.
Oh the bitter irony...
maximum360 said:Honestly, your posts are pretty worthless to me. Go troll someone else or find some more groupies. I just made a statement. If you want to take it personal, fine. Either you're in the troll category or are just anal in general. Your further comments will go in the "ignore" category.
so, wait, anyone who's positive about the ps3, effusively or guardedly, is a troll?
wouldn't you rather be optimistic than submit to dour pessimism?
HocusPocus
Member
Games look good, but so do 360 games now. Looks like owners of both systems can be happy. I mean I'm playing Oblivion right now and I'd rather play this one game than anything else I've seen for either system to date or in the future. So I'll let you guys argue about power. Both systems are good in my book and will offer me some great gaming experiences.
momolicious
Member
lol
Stinkles said:
Well, asides from that not being so sure, I'm not sure how the potential of a standard HDD is any more independent of the factors you initially mention than any other technical capability?
The relationship between hardware (its potential) and budget, team size etc. are all inter-dependent as far as the quality of output is concerned, but usually the more you have of either, the higher the standard is, or should be.
Zombie James
Banned
RaijinFY said:
So developers aren't being told to develop their titles with a hard drive in mind? Link?
MidgarBlowedUp
Member
Tip #143
Just because you bought a Retard Pack doesn't mean you have to act like one.
Anyway, R&C: 4 looks amazing.
A good bit beyond anything I've seen for the Xbox360.
Just because you bought a Retard Pack doesn't mean you have to act like one.
Anyway, R&C: 4 looks amazing.
A good bit beyond anything I've seen for the Xbox360.
gofreak said:
Caching and streaming.
The CPUs and graphics sets for each system are pretty similar, no matter what each respective system's fanboys claim. If you can hold textures and geometry in a handy (HD) cache, big seamless cityscapes with outrageous detail like the R&C demo will be way easier with an HD than without.
This really applies to multi-version games more than anything - if something's written for PS3 or 360 exclusively, there will be marked differences based on the other factors. That's going to be a repeat of the SNES/Genesis effect.
See Oblivion for loose, but appropriate example.
PS., teh 360 has blast processing so teh ps3 am fucked total.
I can't believe people are comparing these blurry ass pics to any console. PS2 or 360.
It's absolute idiocy at it's finest.
What I was hoping for was some games to get excited about. R&C looks pretty good, but very much more of the same. I'd rather have something new and exciting, which I've found in recent games like GRAW. For myself, the F1 game looks to be the most promising as it looks like they aim for a completely realistic experience.
It's absolute idiocy at it's finest.
What I was hoping for was some games to get excited about. R&C looks pretty good, but very much more of the same. I'd rather have something new and exciting, which I've found in recent games like GRAW. For myself, the F1 game looks to be the most promising as it looks like they aim for a completely realistic experience.
Stinkles said:
HDDs do make things easier, but I'm not sure how much of a fundamental enabler they are beyond a couple of limited genres. Personally I do think the CPU difference is quite significant, and that therein lies PS3's greatest potential differentiator. I think I might even put Blu-ray ahead of a HDD, if only for much better and more consistent audio quality and the like.
CamHostage
Member
Damn this creation they call the "internet". GDC needs to close itself off, the world is not ready for what it contains.
And that's nearly exactly what this event was, except that Sony didn't have a middleware suite to sell, it had dev kits and hardware support contracts. These weren't trailers they showed (unlike the Nintendo conference, which was to sell Nintendo and not much else...not that everybody doesn't want to buy some Nintendo), they were technical demos ripped out of work-in-progress games. No matter how little they may have had done to demo if they could have (it's quite easy to say, "we're only going to show you this tiny little bit" when you only have a tiny bit more that you could have shown), devs are very experienced in turning water into wine if you have got to bluff your way through a show. And as far as a presentation on tools, XNA still had samples (and samples glossed up to impress), so I don't see much difference. Weren't the Pseudo car crash and the Noir demo and all of that introduced at GDC or something like that?
Wait, are you just saying this because you don't think the screenshots match? I agree, and I think we most all do, that the two E3 trailers sequences were more conceptual than work-in-progress (which is how they were presented, still baffles me why some feel "lied to" when those trailers were not presented at the event as anything but commercials and were preceded by an hour of realtime.)
That said, didn't you used to be a gaming journalist, ManaByte? You should know like anybody that devs can make magic with trailers, including realtime (or in-game) footage, but then you go back to the office and they've only got a small fraction of that "playable." Doesn't mean that they lied, it's just making the most with what's on hand.
Man, maybe E3 should close itself off too. When was it that Sony "blatantly lied" about the E3 stuff being realtime? At the show, there were a number of realtime presentations (albeit not all that "gameplay-realtime" kind of realtime, which would be part of the difference between Fight Night PS3 in May and Fight Night 360 in stores now), then it came out with the video section which they said developers were "working on". After that, there was that G4 interview with Jack Trenton where he said that everything was "real" (which, in his context sounded like he was meaning what he referred to earlier that everything had been done to spec, not necessarily that any of it was running on a PS3...still shady, but in a Clinton kind of way), and ManaByte says there was this Electronic Playground show (by the way, who the hell is watching Electronic Playground?), and that was about it. Meanwhile, no interviews in print or online or video said that this was specifically the case, interviews with the Killzone team actually said that it was what they're aiming for with their game but not necessarily what they can achieve yet. Then a bunch of blogs popped up about the reality of the event, which sounds fair, that it was done to spec but still a long ways from getting there and maybe never would. And in the 10 months since the event, SCE has not made any specific further comment on the showing. Even if could be called on a fib (and I'm not sure that's the case), where's the blatant part?
hadareud said:
And that's nearly exactly what this event was, except that Sony didn't have a middleware suite to sell, it had dev kits and hardware support contracts. These weren't trailers they showed (unlike the Nintendo conference, which was to sell Nintendo and not much else...not that everybody doesn't want to buy some Nintendo), they were technical demos ripped out of work-in-progress games. No matter how little they may have had done to demo if they could have (it's quite easy to say, "we're only going to show you this tiny little bit" when you only have a tiny bit more that you could have shown), devs are very experienced in turning water into wine if you have got to bluff your way through a show. And as far as a presentation on tools, XNA still had samples (and samples glossed up to impress), so I don't see much difference. Weren't the Pseudo car crash and the Noir demo and all of that introduced at GDC or something like that?
ManaByte said:
Wait, are you just saying this because you don't think the screenshots match? I agree, and I think we most all do, that the two E3 trailers sequences were more conceptual than work-in-progress (which is how they were presented, still baffles me why some feel "lied to" when those trailers were not presented at the event as anything but commercials and were preceded by an hour of realtime.)
That said, didn't you used to be a gaming journalist, ManaByte? You should know like anybody that devs can make magic with trailers, including realtime (or in-game) footage, but then you go back to the office and they've only got a small fraction of that "playable." Doesn't mean that they lied, it's just making the most with what's on hand.
Cerebral Palsy said:
Man, maybe E3 should close itself off too. When was it that Sony "blatantly lied" about the E3 stuff being realtime? At the show, there were a number of realtime presentations (albeit not all that "gameplay-realtime" kind of realtime, which would be part of the difference between Fight Night PS3 in May and Fight Night 360 in stores now), then it came out with the video section which they said developers were "working on". After that, there was that G4 interview with Jack Trenton where he said that everything was "real" (which, in his context sounded like he was meaning what he referred to earlier that everything had been done to spec, not necessarily that any of it was running on a PS3...still shady, but in a Clinton kind of way), and ManaByte says there was this Electronic Playground show (by the way, who the hell is watching Electronic Playground?), and that was about it. Meanwhile, no interviews in print or online or video said that this was specifically the case, interviews with the Killzone team actually said that it was what they're aiming for with their game but not necessarily what they can achieve yet. Then a bunch of blogs popped up about the reality of the event, which sounds fair, that it was done to spec but still a long ways from getting there and maybe never would. And in the 10 months since the event, SCE has not made any specific further comment on the showing. Even if could be called on a fib (and I'm not sure that's the case), where's the blatant part?
CamHostage
Member
phonte said:
I think you're mistaken on that, Heavenly Sword was not realtime at E3 -- it was said to be running on the in-game engine, though, at various unoptimized framerates that they then sped up to the full speed they're hoping the optimized final will be. I think Ninja Theory said that the indoor fight was more or less real (except the opening face close-up), while the outdoor stuff was processed heavily...anybody have the exact quotes or blog links on that?
SolidSnakex said:
Actually, I don't think they came out and said that Ratchet was realtime, although it was the only "trailer" in the bunch, so I don't know why it would have been shown at an event like GDC if it wasn't (at least realtime-to-tape.) The F1 and a few other things also were presented outside of the tech demos and not necessarily realtime, although wasn't all that stuff just on slides, right? (I wasn't there.) So, kind of doesn't matter, although hopefully those slides were screens from the game.
BlueTsunami
there is joy in sucking dick
Second said:
:lol
Agent Icebeezy
Welcome beautful toddler, Madison Elizabeth, to the horde!
MidgarBlowedUp said:
It's a demo, and you are comparing it to completed games? If I do recall correctly, all assets had to be created from scratch for the PS3? Right? Comparing it to mostly upscaled ports is downright stupid. Wait till games built with Xenos and not ported over from existing Xbox hardware come out. The difference will be astounding. You people get delusional at times. Nobody has even played that. It's the first mention of the game on the PS3 platform and people have alreadt started talkin stupid. I'm quite sure that if Microsoft were to throw up a technological demo of sorts, you'd see the same thing. Instead, we have this stupid circle jerk over non-interactive demos.
*smh*
No one cares about context, else the journos who actually sat through the presentation wouldn't have been on a vision quest to grab any Sony rep they could find who would tell them the KZ and Motorstorm clips were realtime. Obviously, the biggest problem here is that they did find a few that muddied the waters with their comments, but it still doesn't change the original context under which these trailers were unveiled which doesn't speak to any grand plan on Sony's part to lie about anything.CamHostage said:
Agent Icebeezy said:It's a demo, and you are comparing it to completed games? If I do recall correctly, all assets had to be created from scratch for the PS3? Right? Comparing it to mostly upscaled ports is downright stupid. Wait till games built with Xenos and not ported over from existing Xbox hardware come out. The difference will be astounding. You people get delusional at times. Nobody has even played that. It's the first mention of the game on the PS3 platform and people have alreadt started talkin stupid. I'm quite sure that if Microsoft were to throw up a technological demo of sorts, you'd see the same thing. Instead, we have this stupid circle jerk over non-interactive demos.
*smh*
well, then, why hasn't microsoft done so?
why do they instead leave some of us with doubts about the system's power?
also, the r&c "demo" looks a good deal better than anything shown for the 360, upscaled port or exclusively built from the ground up title.
you talk about people suffering from delusions, but you can't simply admit that the r&c "demo" looks unreal.
come on.
BlueTsunami
there is joy in sucking dick
DCharlie said:
I remember me calling at that little scene a few months back. I think even that little scene was prerendered though.
Kleegamefan
K. LEE GAIDEN
MidgarBlowedUp said:
:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol
Kleegamefan
K. LEE GAIDEN
op_ivy said:kutaragi's 4-d claim coming true
:lol :lol :lol
Kleegamefan
K. LEE GAIDEN
Looks awesome...
pinkatrophe
Member
ehhh, I'm kinda ambivalent about the network's GUI.
They need to get Carson in there to spice that shit up.
They need to get Carson in there to spice that shit up.
Ninja Scooter
Member
was that "shot up car" demo a part of Getaway or done by the Getaway team?
SolidSnakex
Member
Ninja Scooter said:
There's speculatiobn that it is. But according to Phil its from the game that exploding gas station E3 demo was from. That's what leads people to think its The Getaway because they're both being made by Sony London.