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[Ninja Scooter]

There's speculatiobn that it is. But according to Phil its from the game that exploding gas station E3 demo was from. That's what leads people to think its The Getaway because they're both being made by Sony London.

well if it is being made by Sony London it would be a no-brainer to use that tech in the next Getaway. Be a waste not to, even if they are developing it for a seperate game.

 

[pcostabel]

The Getaway has already been announced. Phil Harrison explicitly said this was from an unannounced game. And the gas station (if it is from the same game) looked like a US location, definitely not London.

 

[SolidSnakex]

well if it is being made by Sony London it would be a no-brainer to use that tech in the next Getaway. Be a waste not to, even if they are developing it for a seperate game.

Yah but considering the scope of The Getaway you have to wonder if its possible. That damage that car is taking is pretty extreme, it's a greater level of damage detail than you'll see in most racing games. But if they can do it then that's great.

Whatever it is it seems in line with the direction Sony's PS3 games seem to be going in and that's being physics heavy.

 

[mckmas8808]

Yah but considering the scope of The Getaway you have to wonder if its possible. That damage that car is taking is pretty extreme, it's a greater level of damage detail than you'll see in most racing games. But if they can do it then that's great.

Whatever it is it seems in line with the direction Sony's PS3 games seem to be going in and that's being physics heavy.

Hey I'm starting to become a physics whore. Is anybody else getting this feeling?







Anybody???

 

[Kleegamefan]

Hey I'm starting to become a physics whore. Is anybody else getting this feeling?







Anybody???

Yeah, its one of the things Sony is pushing hard because their system seems to be strong in the area of physical simulations...

Since we have never had a game platform before that is really really good at physics, and MS is dropping the ball in this area (even though I believe X360 is also fairly strong in this area) the PS3 is coming across as being revolutionary in this aspect...

 

[Jonnyram]

How exactly is the ball being dropped by anyone other than developers themselves? If they want to put physics into a game, they can. It's not going to have much of an effect on gfx. Some PS2, Xbox and GC games already have good physics in them. It's not some magic that's just going to start happening this gen.

 

[SolidSnakex]

Hey I'm starting to become a physics whore. Is anybody else getting this feeling?







Anybody???

If you're a Sony fan you probably are. They seem to be pushing that really hard with their first party efforts.

 

[DCharlie]

Physics made school suck but it'll make games amazing!

"If you're a Sony fan you probably are. "

Physics aren't platform specific - and i'm sure X360 will have some nice physics engines to so stop hogging the physics love.

 

[Fafalada]

HDDs do make things easier, but I'm not sure how much of a fundamental enabler they are

There's a plethora of devs out there that won't even seriously consider a platform without a large fixed storage. So if nothing else, standard HDD would equate more developer support, which in turn obviously has more impact then some technical shenanigans

 

[SolidSnakex]

Physics aren't platform specific - and i'm sure X360 will have some nice physics engines to so stop hogging the physics love.

Didn't say it was, i'm saying that Sony seems to be focusing on that aspect so if you're a Sony fans you're probably excited about it because Sony is going to be pushing it.

 

[gofreak]

If they want to put physics into a game, they can. It's not going to have much of an effect on gfx.

It's probably subjective, but I'd disagree.

Some PS2, Xbox and GC games already have good physics in them. It's not some magic that's just going to start happening this gen.

Tip of the iceberg, really.

There's a plethora of devs out there that won't even seriously consider a platform without a large fixed storage.

Mostly MMO developers, though, right? There might be others who'd come, but I'd wonder if they couldn't have done so earlier..

 

[BlueTsunami]

It's not going to have much of an effect on gfx

Phsyics CAN have an effect on visuals, mostly cause and effect and how profound the reaction is.

Some PS2, Xbox and GC games already have good physics in them.

Which ones? Most of the games on these consoles with any noticable physics being used are usually just Car Racing Sims. The Phsyics that the Xbox360 and the PS3 will be able to impliment this gen will put past generation consoles to shame.

It's not some magic that's just going to start happening this gen.

Of course it isn't but Developers are much more aware of it now. Also, tools are readily available (through Ageia and Havok) to impliment advance physics. Hell, one of the main themes of the GDC presentations from Sony was Physics used in games.

 

[Willie Dynamite]

The poor quality of those pics hides the fact that the videos/demos weren't all that impressive when you were actually there.

 

[Jonnyram]

Some games with awesome physics on the PS2:
Fantavision
Aquaqua
Flipnic

Oh, and Mana 4 uses Havok. It's available on PS2 for developers who want to use it.

 

[Deku]

Has 4D arrived yet?

We've had 3-D games for 10 years now. I'm really not that interested in seeing the spit on polish on the skyscrapers of the latest Ratchet game. I want to see what the PS3 can deliver, in terms of experience, that I haven't experience or couldn't experience on the PS2.

The usual stable or racing demos is getting a bit tired. At E3, Square need to be there showing off what a next-generation Final Fantasy game is all about. Because I don't really want Current Gen to the nth power type stuff. It's pretty boring once the novelty of the shiny new graphic effects wear off.

 

[Fafalada]

Physics aren't platform specific

Neither are load times, and last gen the platform with the slowest drive had the fewest slow loading games in its library. It's a thing of development focus, Nintendo was the only one that bothered pestering developers about it properly.

Or for a much closer paralel - early PS2 stuff was targeted at / extremely obsessed with high-polygon outputs (even though most developers had completely wrong understanding on how to get high polygon throughput) - this wasn't a direction developers just accidently chose to pursue en masse.
This time, dynamics and interaction are in focus instead (again, no accident - and yes, marketting clearly has their hands in what is being pushed as well of course)

Mostly MMO developers, though, right?

Which is the one genre almost entirely absent from consoles so far - and a genre most people are expecting to dominate the future (well, it already dominates in a few markets).

No doubt if you're looking for visual disparities across platforms, there are tech features that would do more then a HDD (such as say, having a ram increase instead) - the question is what matters more in the long run though.

 

[AndoCalrissian]

Has 4D arrived yet?

We've had 3-D games for 10 years now. I'm really not that interested in seeing the spit on polish on the skyscrapers of the latest Ratchet game. I want to see what the PS3 can deliver, in terms of experience, that I haven't experience or couldn't experience on the PS2.

The usual stable or racing demos is getting a bit tired. At E3, Square need to be there showing off what a next-generation Final Fantasy game is all about. Because I don't really want Current Gen to the nth power type stuff. It's pretty boring once the novelty of the shiny new graphic effects wear off.

Welp, all I can say is don't look to Factor 5 for that new experience. Looks like they're giving us Rogue Squadron dressed up as dragons. I personally am anticipating what's next from the ICO/SotC team, but not because it's on PS3, just because it's from that team.

 

[jett]

Has 4D arrived yet?

We've had 3-D games for 10 years now. I'm really not that interested in seeing the spit on polish on the skyscrapers of the latest Ratchet game. I want to see what the PS3 can deliver, in terms of experience, that I haven't experience or couldn't experience on the PS2.

The usual stable or racing demos is getting a bit tired. At E3, Square need to be there showing off what a next-generation Final Fantasy game is all about. Because I don't really want Current Gen to the nth power type stuff. It's pretty boring once the novelty of the shiny new graphic effects wear off.

...what? A next-gen FF game would be all about being pretty. Your post is kind of contradictory. I think Motorstorm shows exactly what a "next-gen experience" could be.

 

[Shompola]

Neither are load times, and last gen the platform with the slowest drive had the fewest slow loading games in its library.

PS2 had the slowest didnt it? And the games loaded definitely slowest...

 

[Fafalada]

PS2 had the slowest didnt it? And the games loaded definitely slowest...

GC drive was by far the slowest of the 3, and general impression is its games load fastest on average.
Point is the end result difference was all in the direction on software side, not the hardware capabilities.

 

[gofreak]

Oh, and Mana 4 uses Havok. It's available on PS2 for developers who want to use it.

Havok has been around for years. It's not like they brought the ultimate in physics that you'd ever need 6 years ago. It's a constantly evolving thing. One of the bigger shifts lately is how everyone is looking to tap a lot more power for physics - be it via dedicated hardware like PhysX, or via GPUs with Havok - because (conventional) CPUs simply aren't offering the required jumps in performance that one might like. They're not doing this in order to offer the same fidelity we were getting with PS2

 

[Mr Toast]

How exactly is the ball being dropped by anyone other than developers themselves? If they want to put physics into a game, they can. It's not going to have much of an effect on gfx. Some PS2, Xbox and GC games already have good physics in them. It's not some magic that's just going to start happening this gen.

Physics can have a very big impact on graphics, albeit indirectly.

More complex physics calculations are obviously more impressive if you have more objects to interact with. And rendering more objects does impact on the quality of rendering each one. (In principle, at least).

 

[Zen]

CPUs simply aren't offering the required jumps in performance that one might like.

Except Cell.

 

[Jonnyram]

Havok has been around for years. It's not like they brought the ultimate in physics that you'd ever need 6 years ago. It's a constantly evolving thing. One of the bigger shifts lately is how everyone is looking to tap a lot more power for physics - be it via dedicated hardware like PhysX, or via GPUs with Havok - because (conventional) CPUs simply aren't offering the required jumps in performance that one might like. They're not doing this in order to offer the same fidelity we were getting with PS2

Right... it's on another level in terms of fidelity, yet the effect it will have on gameplay is being exaggerated in the extreme.

OK, so you've got a buggy that kicks up mud and leaves trails. That mud will be all messy on the next lap, and clumps will make you bump around a bit. That is great from a physics perspective, but think about the gameplay. If it's too extreme, it will make the game crap and unplayable, but if it's too weak, there'll be no effect, right? If by some degree of effort, they balance it perfectly, does it turn a normal buggy racing game into some GOTY material, or is it still just a buggy racing game?

Physics can have a very big impact on graphics, albeit indirectly.

Actually, I meant to say "how will an improvement in physics mean a downgrade in graphics?" since GPUs are already separate to CPUs this gen.

 

[BlueTsunami]

Right... it's on another level in terms of fidelity, yet the effect it will have on gameplay is being exaggerated in the extreme.

OK, so you've got a buggy that kicks up mud and leaves trails. That mud will be all messy on the next lap, and clumps will make you bump around a bit. That is great from a physics perspective, but think about the gameplay. If it's too extreme, it will make the game crap and unplayable, but if it's too weak, there'll be no effect, right? If by some degree of effort, they balance it perfectly, does it turn a normal buggy racing game into some GOTY material, or is it still just a buggy racing game?

What would you rather like? A buggy that rides in a desert landscape with clearly visible debri on the ground and yet the car doesn't react at all? I think it would be a HUGE waste if nothing was done at all. Also, its up to the developers to tweak the gameplay aspects. Thats not really the "Physics" fault.

I also want to note, the developers who are making Motorstorm (Evolution) used to make Military Simulators (for the actual Military). So it seems to be something they've brought along with them (the want to make a game actually simulate reality). I can already tell that this game won't be for you after hearing the aspects Evolution will use for gameplay in Motorstorm.

 

[Fafalada]

If it's too extreme, it will make the game crap and unplayable, but if it's too weak, there'll be no effect, right?

Well a lot of the interesting physics stuff is at least 2/3 eyecandy, and not that much gameplay effect. But you know - eyecandy is what usually sells, not some revolutionary GOTY material

 

[gofreak]

Right... it's on another level in terms of fidelity, yet the effect it will have on gameplay is being exaggerated in the extreme.

That's a fair concern, it remains a very open-ended question. I thought you were addressing something different, though ("It's not going to have much of an effect on gfx.").

Actually, I meant to say "how will an improvement in physics mean a downgrade in graphics?" since GPUs are already separate to CPUs this gen.

Not sure what the context is, but if someone dumped some physics onto a single GPU, it would obviously affect your rendering capability.

 

[Jonnyram]

OK, maybe I can clarify...

There's two trains of thought going on here and people are combining them willy-nilly.

1) physics = eye candy
2) physics = gameplay

I'm trying to say that the second one isn't going to be something unique to the PS3 because it's down to ideas and execution more than CPU power. I'm trying to keep 1 and 2 apart and that's why I said gfx aren't affected by physics. You wouldn't dump gameplay-type physics onto a GPU. Sorry for the lack of clarity earlier. Eye candy will be sweet this gen, that's for sure, but we already have plenty of evidence of that

 

[DCharlie]

I also want to note, the developers who are making Motorstorm (Evolution) used to make Military Simulators (for the actual Military). So it seems to be something they've brought along with them (the want to make a game actually simulate reality). I can already tell that this game won't be for you after hearing the aspects Evolution will use for gameplay in Motorstorm.

Military Simulators for the actual Military?
the fake Military is so much better.

how are the physics in the military simulators you've tried from them? Are they really good?

 

[Fafalada]

how are the physics in the military simulators you've tried from them? Are they really good?

The guy that made AI for DTRacer worked on military AI simulations (Russian army) too. I'll let you be the judge.

 

[BlueTsunami]

Military Simulators for the actual Military?
the fake Military is so much better.

:lol Booooo! I was worried people would somehow take Military Sim as a Simulation but the development was for consoles still. Trying to point out that they actually made sims for the actual Military.

how are the physics in the military simulators you've tried from them? Are they really good?

Not necissarily physics persee but AI and other aspects that tries to make a situation as believable as possible to a soldier. I'm sure you know what a Simulator is though DC

 

[DCharlie]

The guy that made AI for DTRacer worked on military AI simulations (Russian army) too. I'll let you be the judge.

Damn, if he'd done the physics, that would explain why the car handles like a tank....
*runs*


(shouts from 100 meters)

... with only one track..... and half of the Tank submerged in honey....

*runs*

"Not necissarily physics persee but AI and other aspects that tries to make a situation as believable as possible to a soldier. I'm sure you know what a Simulator is though DC"

haha - you'd be surprised actually
Anyways, i thought we were talking about physics not AI?

 

[Striek]

Is this the form factor of the final devkit as shown whoop-de-whoop back or not? Anyway, definitely much smaller than the previous lunker (that was also at GDC IIRC).

And were these actually running anything at GDC, if anyone knows.

 

[Fafalada]

*runs*

Stop running and answer your MSN instead dammit, I need to ask you something.

 

[DCharlie]

okay - i'm at work now - will be home in about 40 mins, will answermy MSN then (sorry, up to my nuts in stuff at the moment)

 

[BlueTsunami]

Anyways, i thought we were talking about physics not AI?

Yep, but i'm more or less referencing to the fact that Evolution is making a racer thats trying to simulate reality. One of the major aspects needed is believable physics. From the checklist so far of things that are supposed to be in the game....it shaping up to be very advanced for a console game (that makes me very happy)

 

[mashoutposse]

Right... it's on another level in terms of fidelity, yet the effect it will have on gameplay is being exaggerated in the extreme.

OK, so you've got a buggy that kicks up mud and leaves trails. That mud will be all messy on the next lap, and clumps will make you bump around a bit. That is great from a physics perspective, but think about the gameplay. If it's too extreme, it will make the game crap and unplayable, but if it's too weak, there'll be no effect, right? If by some degree of effort, they balance it perfectly, does it turn a normal buggy racing game into some GOTY material, or is it still just a buggy racing game?

For all we know, Evolution cooked up something so good that it would be akin to taking the waves out of Wave Race. I think the potential is there.

 

[gofreak]

OK, maybe I can clarify...

There's two trains of thought going on here and people are combining them willy-nilly.

1) physics = eye candy
2) physics = gameplay

I'm trying to say that the second one isn't going to be something unique to the PS3 because it's down to ideas and execution more than CPU power.

It's true you wouldn't dump the second on the GPU, at least for now. And of course, the latter is not unique to PS3, and it is indeed much more dependent on how it is leveraged by the developer than the underlying capability. However, all else being equal, more capability would be better - and I don't think we've hit a ceiling in terms of what is useful capability.

Thinking more, though, about the segregation of physics application to "eye candy" versus "gameplay", I'm not really sure if it's that simple anymore. I used to do the same for simplicity's sake, but thinking of it more - what is gameplay? The things we call 'effects physics' now, are often a function of the player's input, the visual feedback to that i.e. I shoot a car in a particular way, and it's affected in a way that is dependent on my shot. That may 'only' be a physics driven effect, but it's fundamentally tied to my interaction with the game. It's not the same kind of eyecandy as the nicely textured wall over there - it underlies the feedback I'm getting from the game to my interaction, it helps define the quality of that feedback and its believability. So where even 'just' effects physics is tied to the user's actions, I think it is elevated beyond status of eyecandy in the traditional sense to something more closely linked to the notion of gameplay (I hesitate to say 'experience' because that often suggests that everything that contributes to the experience is equally important, which isn't necessarily true..).

 

[Ghost]

I love the R&C stuff, the 'look how real it looks' stuff is starting to bore me now but its great to see how creative studios will use the power of PS3.


The physics stuff is impressive too but I dont really see that as a feature PS3 has over 360, after playing Oblivion i can definitely see the appeal of next-gen physics but really its up to the developers to make use of it in an interesting way.

 

[mashoutposse]

I still can't believe we haven't seen leaked videos of this thing. What happened to that guy who took the GoW2 PS2 video?

 

[Midas]

The Party - 15th November 2006, release date?

 

[mashoutposse]

Noticed that, too...

 

[gofreak]

Yeah, it prob means nothing, but kind of funny.

Note also the presence of an email address using the playstation.net domain. It doesn't go anywhere at the moment. Is Sony going to give everyone a Playstation email address? Will you be able to use it on PSP also?

 

[kaching]

I'm trying to say that the second one isn't going to be something unique to the PS3 because it's down to ideas and execution more than CPU power.

I don't think anyone is saying that physics-based gameplay experiences will somehow be unique to the PS3, but ideas and execution are certainly dependent on how much CPU power is available.

 

[Midas]

Yeah, it prob means nothing, but kind of funny.

Note also the presence of an email address using the playstation.net domain. It doesn't go anywhere at the moment. Is Sony going to give everyone a Playstation email address? Will you be able to use it on PSP also?

Probably not (but you never know!), just like the email address just indicates that you will be able to read your emails with the PS3.

 

[gofreak]

Probably not (but you never know!), just like the email address just indicates that you will be able to read your emails with the PS3.

Yeah, I'm wondering if it'll let you hook it up with any email address. But with a web browser, gmail is just a link away anyway..

 

[kaching]

Hopefully, support for standard POP3 mail accounts would be there too...

 

[Midas]

Yeah, I'm wondering if it'll let you hook it up with any email address. But with a web browser, gmail is just a link away anyway..

Yeah, so it doesn't really matter. Hopefully we'll know after E3.

Hopefully, support for standard POP3 mail accounts would be there too...

That would've been perfect.

 

[element]

What happened to that guy who took the GoW2 PS2 video?

I stopped, because people around me were being told to stop. I didn't want to get kicked out.

 

[MidgarBlowedUp]

I want to see this playable at E3.