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New SFIV Guile vs Able "Artistic Trailer"
- Thread starter The-Switcher
- Start date
Raging Spaniard said:
What is the point of moving from 2d to 3d if there aren't any major gameplay changes? I realize that the animation looks the way it does because it's keeping the 2d timing, but this is precisely why it doesn't look right.
People can call me a troll but I don't think I represent a minority opinion at all here. People who aren't nostalgic about Street Fighter because they didn't grow up with it or whatever are going to look at this game and think that it looks ridiculous.
Teknopathetic
Member
"What is the point of moving from 2d to 3d if there aren't any major gameplay changes?"
Because unless you're on a portable, 2D isn't marketable. Major gameplay changes would alienate the hardcore arcade (Japanese) fanbase that's stuck with the series for 17 years. Plus it doesn't really make a difference, gameplay wise, to the folks who'd probably refuse to look at the game if it was 2D.
Because unless you're on a portable, 2D isn't marketable. Major gameplay changes would alienate the hardcore arcade (Japanese) fanbase that's stuck with the series for 17 years. Plus it doesn't really make a difference, gameplay wise, to the folks who'd probably refuse to look at the game if it was 2D.
Teknopathetic
Member
"I seriously doubt that this game has much of a chance of lighting up the charts either.
Fighting games nowadays are made only for niche gamers."
Tekken says hello. Even Dead or Alive did decent enough.
Fighting games nowadays are made only for niche gamers."
Tekken says hello. Even Dead or Alive did decent enough.
plovie said:
There are some pretty major game play changes with the EX moves added to the old ST character and the saving attack...but maybe you're talking about something else.
There are a couple advantages to using 3d models compared to 2d sprites.
First off the the development cost is a lot lower, as everyone knows, but after thinking about it, at the end of the day I think its better for the player too. Updates to models can be made much easier than sprites of course because you dont have to redraw frame by frame. This is good because updates can be done by downloading patches, so if something is broken, it can be easily fixed with an update.
Any sort of additional costumes or items can be added to the character easily as you know being a Tekken/3d fan.
I personally think it looks great, and each update it's looking better and better. I know some of the characters could be considered "ridiculous" but over all it looks liek a step in the right direction for the series. I think you're in the minority there. Over all the game play looks like classic 2d as well, with the slight pause between on each hit and the fact that cross ups and other things work as they do in 2d games.
Teknopathetic
Member
"They sell decently, but it's undeniable that fighting games aren't a big part of the videogame scene like they used to be."
Which is incredibly beside the point. Compare the sales of GGXX (In the US at least, dunno about Japan, but I'd strongly doubt it as well) to Tekken and it's pretty easy to see why they'd choose to go 3D. Marketability. Whether fighting games sell as much as they used to doesn't really matter.
Which is incredibly beside the point. Compare the sales of GGXX (In the US at least, dunno about Japan, but I'd strongly doubt it as well) to Tekken and it's pretty easy to see why they'd choose to go 3D. Marketability. Whether fighting games sell as much as they used to doesn't really matter.
Opus Angelorum
Member
Teknopathetic said:
This.
Plovie, it sounds like you just don't want any more fighting games to created.
FunnyBunny
Member
I think there is a chance Street fighter 4 lights up the charts.
Initial response has been overwhelmingly positive. Long lines at location tests, trade shows, etc. The hands-on impressions I've read have also been glowing. Someone at Kotaku who played it at Captivate says it's...
"There was a reason that there was a constant wait to get one's hands on the controls of Street Fighter IV at Captivate. It's the same reason that Capcom employees, whether they be developers, producers or executives were similarly glued to the cabinets—it's damn good, a blend of enjoyably new mechanics and classic nostalgia-filled gameplay. It's also fantastically animated, gorgeous in motion."
Initial response has been overwhelmingly positive. Long lines at location tests, trade shows, etc. The hands-on impressions I've read have also been glowing. Someone at Kotaku who played it at Captivate says it's...
"There was a reason that there was a constant wait to get one's hands on the controls of Street Fighter IV at Captivate. It's the same reason that Capcom employees, whether they be developers, producers or executives were similarly glued to the cabinets—it's damn good, a blend of enjoyably new mechanics and classic nostalgia-filled gameplay. It's also fantastically animated, gorgeous in motion."
Prime crotch
Banned
I really hope that Dudley gets in with some kind of patch or even DLC, I loved the Gigaton Punch video as much as everyone else but I'm not a big fan of Balrog or even SF1 Mike.
That said, I still can't believe how good this looks, Capcom outdid themselves really and I wasn't a believer.
That said, I still can't believe how good this looks, Capcom outdid themselves really and I wasn't a believer.
Snapshot King
Member
The movement from 2D to 3D has nothing to do with the core game. The reason is sprite-work is incredibly time consuming and expensive. Look how far HD-Remix and IV have come in almost the same time frame, it's a staggering difference. Plus, casuals are far more easily wowed by 3D shiny than they are by 2D smoothness. It's a marketing decision so that the game would be able to cost a reasonable amount, come out pretty quickly, and entice new players.
Whats great is that the teams taken what was originally a forced decision and made it look amazing.
Whats great is that the teams taken what was originally a forced decision and made it look amazing.
haunts said:
I would be surprised if they made important gameplay fixes downloadable instead of just releasing new versions of the game.
Clearly I'm in the minority here on the message board. But I think the average gamer is going to react even worse than I have. If they really want to revitalize the series, they have to appeal to the average gamer, and not hardcore fans.
The average gamer's not going to get excited by the fact that it plays like a 2d game or by the fact that SF is in 3d. They might be if SF4 actually adding something to the genre.
Yoshichan
And they made him a Lord of Cinder. Not for virtue, but for might. Such is a lord, I suppose. But here I ask. Do we have a sodding chance?
QFT! His theme in 3s was incredible too:Prime crotch said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OOB3j9lmBZI
Teknopathetic
Member
"The average gamer's not going to get excited by the fact that it plays like a 2d game or by the fact that SF is in 3d. They might be if SF4 actually adding something to the genre."
I think you have the average gamer confused with internet "hardcore" gamers. Not saying they're plebes or anything, but they don't share the generic forumgoer obsession with blah blah innovation! Revolutionizing the genre! etc.
"Adding something to the genre" is only something the hardcore dudes give a fuck about.
I think you have the average gamer confused with internet "hardcore" gamers. Not saying they're plebes or anything, but they don't share the generic forumgoer obsession with blah blah innovation! Revolutionizing the genre! etc.
"Adding something to the genre" is only something the hardcore dudes give a fuck about.
The-Switcher
Banned
haunts said:
That's because it's VF5. Casuals hit the wall.
Teknopathetic
Member
I'm...not really sure how SC4 is any more original or fresh.
"That's because it's VF5. Casuals hit the wall."
Yeah, I didn't mention VF5 for a reason. I don't think VF's sold particularly well since the Saturn.
"That's because it's VF5. Casuals hit the wall."
Yeah, I didn't mention VF5 for a reason. I don't think VF's sold particularly well since the Saturn.
The-Switcher
Banned
plovie said:
:lol
Irony of the year.
The-Switcher said:
Yeah thats a good point. I guess its still perceived as being too technical to jump right in and play and not as flashy as say tekken, doa or soul calibur.
plovie said:
They can release new versions of the game quicker, and you can download the update opposed to buying a brand new copy of the game. AFAIK they have already pretty much confirmed new characters (ibuki I think) would be downloadable on the console versions. You're pretty much splitting hairs on this because its obvious its much easier to make updates more frequent with 3d models.
Ive played the game with people who are maybe not casual gamers but are pretty casual with SF and the response was very positive. I dont see why this would be different with anyone else really. I think over all maybe casuals wont flock to a fighting game becuase they like other types of games (FPS,racing, w/e), but I dont think it will have anything to do with SFIV. The general trend has been people were skeptical at first about the game (myself included) but then it started to grow on them as it started to get polished off. Most people are going to be seeing the game in its final stages of development which over all is a very clean polished product imo... I think things like recognizable characters and, funny enough, ultra supers are going to really appeal to the casual gamer. They are doing a great job over all, outside of maybe some questionable character designs.
Teknopathetic said:
It's not just that.
Why exactly would average gamers be excited by SF4? To get there attention, there's got to be something about how the game looks, and I really don't think the art style is going to impress. This criticism is not so much about the animation, although I think that most people will scoff at it, but at the character designs as well. So unless it looks like SF4 is bringing something new and exciting gameplay-wise to the table, people are just going to shrug their shoulders.
The-Switcher
Banned
I guess it needs more boobs and jedis.
Snapshot King
Member
Damn, you beat me to it Switcher.
The-Switcher said:
Why is that? I never said that I doubt that SF4 is a bad game and not worth playing. It's just an ugly one is all. For the record it looks like Soul calibur is trying more new things than SF4 but even if it wasn't I wouldn't be particularly concerned because SC isn't trying to revitalize the franchise.
Teknopathetic
Member
"Why exactly would average gamers be excited by SF4? To get there attention, there's got to be something about how the game looks, and I really don't think the art style is going to impress. This criticism is not so much about the animation, although I think that most people will scoff at it, but at the character designs as well. So unless it looks like SF4 is bringing something new and exciting gameplay-wise to the table, people are just going to shrug their shoulders."
It only takes one look at the commercial they aired during EliteXC to see the angle they're going with marketing. The Street Fighter 2 characters are rather iconic. *Quite* a few people know about Ryu/Ken/Bison/Chun-li, etc. The deliberate decision to go back and use all those old iconic characters rather than moving forward with an all new cast nobody knows (this is why SF3 wasn't popular and Third Strike's really only gotten traction in America the past 6 or so years). That's what they're aiming to get attention with.
It only takes one look at the commercial they aired during EliteXC to see the angle they're going with marketing. The Street Fighter 2 characters are rather iconic. *Quite* a few people know about Ryu/Ken/Bison/Chun-li, etc. The deliberate decision to go back and use all those old iconic characters rather than moving forward with an all new cast nobody knows (this is why SF3 wasn't popular and Third Strike's really only gotten traction in America the past 6 or so years). That's what they're aiming to get attention with.
Teknopathetic said:
I don't think this is going to appeal to people who didn't grow up with Street Fighter though. They're not going to think that the characters look iconic; they're going to think that they look like misshapen freaks being pulled about like marionettes on strings.
Teknopathetic
Member
"I don't think this is going to appeal to people who didn't grow up with Street Fighter though. They're not going to think that the characters look iconic; they're going to think that they look like misshapen freaks being pulled about like marionettes on strings."
The fact that people disagree with you in this thread about how the characters look pretty much takes the wind out of that argument. Nobody can say what the majority will think about how the characters look. You're basing this off the idea that everyone agrees with you that the game looks ugly or even a sizeable group would, when it's already obvious that this could possibly not be the case at all.
The fact that people disagree with you in this thread about how the characters look pretty much takes the wind out of that argument. Nobody can say what the majority will think about how the characters look. You're basing this off the idea that everyone agrees with you that the game looks ugly or even a sizeable group would, when it's already obvious that this could possibly not be the case at all.
plovie said:
You know a lot of younger gamers play a lot of 3s so its not like they are totally in the dark about SF characters. Actually I think this game will give younger players the chance to get involved with SF like older players did back in the day with ST and whatever else. I was barely old enough to play ST at the arcades you know but a lot of younger people missed the boat and feel like they missed something because of that. I think the series will not only attract new players who want to be a part of that but of course older players are going to come back because they have something to prove as well. Its basically win/win when you look at it like that.
Opus Angelorum
Member
Plovie, I've never played a Street Fighter game to any great length and I'm really excited to play this game.
Teknopathetic
Member
Whoops, edited the wrong post, sorry haunts 
You don't have to be that old to have grown up with Street Fighter and you don't necessarily have to have grown up with Street Fighter to find the game appealing.
You don't have to be that old to have grown up with Street Fighter and you don't necessarily have to have grown up with Street Fighter to find the game appealing.
Teknopathetic said:
Actually, in the past people have AGREED with the criticism that they look oddly proportioned; they try to gloss over the point by saying, well, that's how the characters have always looked
(while completely ignoring that what works in one style of art doesn't necessarily look right in another style). People have criticized the size of Ryu's feet for example or Chun Li's oversized hands and thighs. The response has been that Chun Li is supposed to be the strongest woman in the world or some shit (somehow I don't think this is going to stop people from thinking that she looks fucked up).
And I think that Capcom's marketing and art design people would disagree that nobody can say what the majority will think about how the characters look. They're trying to go with a friendlier artistic design, but I think they've failed misserably.
haunts said:
I think that SF2 was as succesful as it was was because it was startlingly original. Not so anymore. Nothing really differentiates it from other fighting games aside from its art style, which I maintain will probably alienate newcomers. Even if it doesn't, people just aren't going to care about its cartoony look. It's been done before.
Snapshot King
Member
I dunno man. I think you're underestimating how many people played SF2 back in the day. I was talking to a friend of mine at work, that to my knowledge, owns no gaming systems whatsoever, and when I mentioned SF4 he got all excited and asked me if Honda was still in it.
The-Switcher
Banned
Um, SCIV IS trying to revitalize the franchise after the horse shit that was SCIII, which had a huge drop in sales and overall quality when it became a PS2 exclusive.
SC's gameplay has remained the same for the last 4 games, and they pile useless upon useless modes onto it, hoping it'll make it better....but it never works.
And the only real thing they're adding to SCIV's gameplay is 1-hit kill finishing moves.
Yeah, that'll make it more balanced.
SC's gameplay has remained the same for the last 4 games, and they pile useless upon useless modes onto it, hoping it'll make it better....but it never works.
And the only real thing they're adding to SCIV's gameplay is 1-hit kill finishing moves.
Yeah, that'll make it more balanced.
Teknopathetic
Member
"Actually, in the past people have AGREED with the criticism that they look oddly proportioned; they try to gloss over the point by saying, well, that's how the characters have always looked"
(while completely ignoring that what works in one style of art doesn't necessarily look right in another style). People have criticized the size of Ryu's feet for example or Chun Li's oversized hands and thighs. The response has been that Chun Li is supposed to be the strongest woman in the world or some shit (somehow I don't think this is going to stop people from thinking that she looks fucked up)."
The key phrase is in the past. They've been tweaking the models since the game was first shown and the end result now is much more palatable. The biggest complaint I saw about the game was the absolutely goofball faces which have definitely seen revisions.
"And I think that Capcom's marketing and art design people would disagree that nobody can say what the majority will think about how the characters look. They're trying to go with a friendlier artistic design, but I think they've failed misserably."
You're still missing it. You not liking the artstyle or someone else liking the art style isn't really good grounds for saying whether the game buying populace as a whole will find it appealing or not.
(while completely ignoring that what works in one style of art doesn't necessarily look right in another style). People have criticized the size of Ryu's feet for example or Chun Li's oversized hands and thighs. The response has been that Chun Li is supposed to be the strongest woman in the world or some shit (somehow I don't think this is going to stop people from thinking that she looks fucked up)."
The key phrase is in the past. They've been tweaking the models since the game was first shown and the end result now is much more palatable. The biggest complaint I saw about the game was the absolutely goofball faces which have definitely seen revisions.
"And I think that Capcom's marketing and art design people would disagree that nobody can say what the majority will think about how the characters look. They're trying to go with a friendlier artistic design, but I think they've failed misserably."
You're still missing it. You not liking the artstyle or someone else liking the art style isn't really good grounds for saying whether the game buying populace as a whole will find it appealing or not.
plovie said:
well there isnt a whole lot of new concepts in say Tekken or SC at this point but they still do pretty well. A lot of the gamplay elements in SFIV alone differentiates it from other fighters, but the style of the game alone will pull in a lot of people to at the very least try it out.
Teknopathetic
Member
"It is if a game is extremely ugly. If a game came out looking like superman 64 for the ps3 I would be on very firm ground saying that it's going to bomb."
Except that's not even close to being the case with SF4 at all.
Except that's not even close to being the case with SF4 at all.
Snapshot King
Member
Nope, it's not.
Teknopathetic
Member
"Where was Captivate 08 held btw?"
I want to say Las Vegas.
I want to say Las Vegas.
Snapshot King
Member
Yeah, it was Vegas.
The-Switcher
Banned
Las Vegas, yup.
I'm still holding out hope for RE2 Wii-make using the RE4 engine announced at E3.
I'm still holding out hope for RE2 Wii-make using the RE4 engine announced at E3.
Mr.Squirrel
Tom
@.@
))))fuck the haters, sf4 for life!