RocknRola
Member
Wow. That sure is a lot of Cidney!!
.......................and you say you can play this thing in VR?
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New super hot Final Fantasy XV CG character renders (Cidney, Iris, etc.)
- Thread starter miku
- Start date
Wow. That sure is a lot of Cidney!!
.......................and you say you can play this thing in VR?
ScherzoPrime
Member
Yeah, whether or not she should be in here is a separate argument from whether she fits, and she totally doesn't. She is very clearly there for sex appeal, and you'd have to be arguing in bad faith to see otherwise.
Actually another thing, why does she have eye shadow in that render? Why the fuck would a mechanic wear eye shadow?
Actually another thing, why does she have eye shadow in that render? Why the fuck would a mechanic wear eye shadow?
the game has issues with female representation beyond cidney. the roles the other women play and their characterization get just as much talk as cidney. cidney criticism is just easier to notice, for obvious reasons.
lightskintwin
Banned
No problem, but I wasn't attacking anybody's character nor making any judgements about his opinion. I was explaining in that specific instance why his complaining of others "complaining" was worse.
As I already guiltily confessed, I like Cindy's outfit. LOL
E_Darkness
Member
Day one.
PSY・S;221921771 said:
I am just talking about designs.
Luna may or may not be a shit character (which isn't a gender thing but more of a poor writing thing IMO) but design wise, she is classy as fuck. Iris looks the part too. And Black Hair Lady looks cool as fuck too. Dragoon Lady looks cool to me but I can see how some people can be upset with that.
now again it is very possible that all of them are shit characters but thats not what we are talking about here. On the flipside Cindy could be an awesome character.
also the roadtrip stuff is simply poorly worded but is a fine choice, if that is the "problematic" stuff you are talking about.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
Why do soldiers have hairsprayed hair? Let's remember what series this is. Everyone looks like they stepped out of makeup and wardrobe.
sensui-tomo
Member
Because FF's never had alternate outfits for weather (because if it did a good chunk of FF characters wouldn't have hypothermia) but sarcasm aside.. something something fetish or another. I like cheesecake and can say its dumb. (ff has terrible/dumb designs)
i'm explaining to you the "grief". the game already has a list of issues regarding its women and cidney's design does nothing but add to it.
RocknRola
Member
Pfft, you don't sweat from your arms and hands bro! Everyone knows that!
See!? SUPER LEGIT!! 
ehehe
ehehe
LordKasual
Banned
PSY・S;221921771 said:
Explain. Please.
Because the only other ones i know of are Aranea, Lunafreya, the black doctor lady who gives quests, and Iris. Aranea is a high-ranking Nif commander, the doctor lady is a quest-giving NPC, and Iris is basically just a civilian.
As for Lunafreya, majority of the complaints about her character seem to be based solely on the fact that she has no combat training. She's just as disadvantaged as Noctis is, she just doesn't have the convenience of literal sword gods and friends with magic powers watching over her. She's been stripped of her parents AND her living brother, with no King Regis or crownsguard to mold her into someone who can realistically fend for herself.
So unless i'm missing something (and i very much may be), i'd like to know what's so bad about XV in this regard other than Cindy.
Not in my world.
Mainly because I am buying Ultimate edition and I am thinking of keeping it sealed, so buying a normal edition to actually play
but also for Cidney
and I eat enough meat for a bajillion vegetarians, maybe
Luna's issue isn't a lack combat training. It's that her entire existence and motivations revolve around noctis, that she's being abused in most of the media we have of her, and that she has the personality of a rock.
Iris falls into the very typical little sister/love interest tropes, but I'm hopeful she'll be more than that.
Aranea is generally well received but her design and animations (at least from versus) still drew criticism.
this has been discussed at length in pashmilla's thread already if you want to know more
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1279015
ScherzoPrime
Member
I don't see it a matter of right or wrong, I see it as a matter of questioning why she is there to begin with. I think at the very least SE was pretty thoughtless in how it would be perceived by women (and socially conscious men for that matter). As appealing as it would be for me to say 'well I don't have a problem with it', other people obviously do and we shouldn't act like their opinions simply don't matter.
I think it's a good thing, whatever my own interests may be, for us to say 'look, if you wanna be taken seriously as a big, general audiences game, you have to care about how you represent your characters'.
Yes and no, respective of a plethora of subjective contexts. It's a little too facile to reduce the issue to this question.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
The near constant objectification and sexualization of women in gaming, which not only sours new IP but also have involved the regression of many different prominent series, (fire emblem, metroid, final fantasy, as two examples), is wrong. Some of the most genuine examples of male sexualization are outright hated
yet you'd not get anywhere near the amount of excuses for these as you would for a character like Cindy. And she doesn't even have sex appeal, she has about as much sex appeal as a sexy halloween costume, it's so boring and creatively bankrupt for a female cahracter to have large breasts, a thong, and an exposed midriff, and borderline the same face as every other woman in the game. It's also juvenile, we're never gonna find out a reason why Cidney dresses like that, in fact, even if there was a reason it's likely just as stupid as "she breaths through her skin" considering the context of the game. It's certainly not a commentary on sexualization because it's played completely straight. She will most likely also not do anything that even remotely has to do with sex whatsoever, so yea, there's plenty wrong with sex appeal in the majority of games that feature it. It's often out of place and juvenile and characters like Cidney are perfect examples of why.
My biggest issue with this is how they retread the same ground over and over again, with no end in sight. We have, what, a dozen variations of schoolgirl outfit by now? How many more variations of the same thing do we bloody need? At some point they've gotta at least try to branch out a bit. The game has literally hundreds of thousands of regular players. There's just no excuse.
Funny how the most covering outfit in the second-latest scratch was also one of the most popular. Problem is, they release outfits like that every X number of months and they have a strong tendency to be hit-or-miss in either design or technical implementation, so it's really not surprising if their metrics don't show demand there. Level of coverage is one thing; actual design quality is entirely another.
All that said, I've pretty much learned to accept that I am a part of a minority of players at this point and I'm just riding the wave now. I'll grab at what few scraps I can get, and curse the rest. That's really all I can do.
Define sex appeal?
Kayo Police
Member
I came back to see if we have gotten larger pics but instead it's the same old Cindy retread talk we have in every single FF15 topic.
ScherzoPrime
Member
I suspect that the whales are the ones who want the scantily clad stuff the most though. :/
I mean again I feel there's nothing wrong with wanting fanservice, inherently; the problem is when it crowds out everyone else. Also making sexualization something you have to grind for is doubly insidious, as it both commercializes sexuality and treats sexuality as a reward, if you lean towards seeing these things through a critical lens.
For the record male nerds need to get over their being impossibly hot sexy dudes in games. Girls deserve their beefcake too!
If the same discourse reoccurs frequently that speaks to its continued relevance.
They're generally complaining about how Luna's being treated by the writers, not about the character's "strength" or lack thereof. It's more meta than you imply.
Which they're right to do, frankly, if she's being infantilized like so many "imouto" characters.
The presence of such does not somehow negate Cidney's presence in the game (and, for that matter, it's something that's nowhere near up-front in the marketing, so not even sure why you'd bring this up other than to try to justify bullshit by pointing at something positive and saying "BUT THIS!").
No.
I don't have tolerance for intolerable bullshit anymore. That ended years ago. I am not going to be nice about any of this. If you defend this tripe, you are my enemy, full-stop. My only hope is in the developers changing their minds about this sort of crap, and that is something that won't be accomplished by me being nice to people who actively demand regressive displays of objectified femininity purely so they can get hard-ons over fictional female characters.
They can have their out-of-place fan service lady boobs & butts in their massive sprawling Japanese RPG if they want, but I reserve the right to call them out on their BS, the right to refuse to spend any money on their game for doing so, and the right to lambaste absolutely everyone who contributes to this torrid status quo. It's not like I have the energy or wherewithal to continually kill people with kindness. You dramatically overestimate my ability to respect those viewpoints.
All I am doing now is making sure everyone knows just how much I hate this crap. And that's it. That's the full extent of any effort I apply to this cause. Anything else and I end up putting tons of energy into something that, frankly, is simply not worth it when there are so many other, more productive things I could be doing.
These are my views, and you can take them or leave them. That is my offer. You can give me something I want to pay for, or you can turn me around and run me off. It's really that simple.
Ravus' design is actually one of my favorites, but to each their own. It feels more like FF to me than a lot of the others, and dat arm is badass.
Actually is that a prosthetic or something he just strapped on to look cool, because that might change my opinion on his design somewhat
It's not an issue of liking it or not. Obviously some women and men may not like it, like you. Liking something is a subjective thing.
She is there as a character with certain traits, someone with sex appeal (to put it crudely). I have not been following the game very closely as I want to be as spoiler free as possible, but there are many other female characters who wear more 'modest' clothing in the game. She is not even a major character in the game. So I do not see the fuss having a single character in the stereotype mold in the game. Besides, it is not like Cindy has no male counterpart in sex appeal department in the game.
I followed DmC conversation pretty closely, and am pretty sure it was not the shirtless Dante that made many hate the game, but the wholesale changes in almost everything, from art direction, to characters etc. with respect to past games. I liked the game though. It was fun to play as an emo kid. Plus the gameplay was good. You are projecting your subjective opinion on a character design (which I have no problems with) on others. I do not see the reason why every character in a game has to adhere to strict clothing requirements, when we are much more liberal in real life. It is not like scantly clad people do not exist in real life, but I digress. I think it is fine to be 'juvenile' or any other generalizations attached by few to such designs, especially when it is just a single character in a game where number of characters is in double digits. It is your choice to like it or not, but I do not think it is right to say such type of characters just should not exist because some people do not like it.
ScherzoPrime
Member
And I think likewise, my relatively lackadaisical view towards these sorts of things doesn't mean I have the right to keep you from expressing how you really feel about these things. If people are truly upset about something they shouldn't be forced to just deal with it, even if I disagree with them. I don't want my interests to hurt other people.
I think she's erotic, actually, but I agree with others that she doesn't belong in this game. I think the only argument that justifies her being there is "Tabata wanted here there", which is fine so far as that goes but it leads to the questions of 'why' exactly he wanted her there and why didn't SE consider the ramifications of having such a sexualized character in their game.
I think we can all agree that boobs are great, Plenty of girls appreciate boobs too, those characters are meant to be cosplayed, they are fictional characters and don't necessarily represent the real life or whatever, I don't really care what characters are wearing on video games and you shouldn't too, especially when you have worst things on TV, theater and medias in general...
Before being that sensible about fictional characters, remember that girls can wear whatever they want, if she want to be sexy and shit, it's ok, if she don't want to be sexy, that's ok too, it's not about what you think she can wear or not but about what THEY want to wear, take a look at celebrity, just take a look at Rihanna, Beyoncé, Miley Cyrus, Lady Gaga, Katy Perry etc... they have less tissues than Cidney and everyone looks ok with it, some of them even pretend to be feminist, they're suppose to be model for young girls ( OMG lol ).
All characters in FFXV are incredibly attractive, just look at Gladio lol, he's like a dream for women, a powerful womanizer who can fight and be a mentor for the futur King, it looks like the perfect guy in everything, talking about stupid expectation... I know some people are offended about everything in 2016 and it's ok to be offended by it but let it go, women are sexy and that's why we love them.
Before being that sensible about fictional characters, remember that girls can wear whatever they want, if she want to be sexy and shit, it's ok, if she don't want to be sexy, that's ok too, it's not about what you think she can wear or not but about what THEY want to wear, take a look at celebrity, just take a look at Rihanna, Beyoncé, Miley Cyrus, Lady Gaga, Katy Perry etc... they have less tissues than Cidney and everyone looks ok with it, some of them even pretend to be feminist, they're suppose to be model for young girls ( OMG lol ).
All characters in FFXV are incredibly attractive, just look at Gladio lol, he's like a dream for women, a powerful womanizer who can fight and be a mentor for the futur King, it looks like the perfect guy in everything, talking about stupid expectation... I know some people are offended about everything in 2016 and it's ok to be offended by it but let it go, women are sexy and that's why we love them.
Kingsglaive:
his arm gets badly burned when he tries to put on the Lucis ring. Not sure about the extent of the damage.
Kingsglaive:his arm gets badly burned when he tries to put on the Lucis ring. Not sure about the extent of the damage.
okay cool
I figure if you have to put on a prosthetic it may as well be one that makes a statement, even if that statement is "I unironically like the art direction of Gaia Online"
LordKasual
Banned
PSY・S;221926435 said:
Her motivation is to preserve the future of the planet, and Noctis just happens to be a big part of that because of his bloodline. Noctis himself is important because of the gravity of what he has inherited. Luna seems much more concerned with the deeper meaning of their connection than the political meanings....unlike Noctis, who's been a bit slow on the uptake since he has another perspective on the issue -- the King is his father, and Insomnia is his home. It reminds me of Game of Thrones, where there's one large group relentlessly fighting over bloodline grievances and political control (Lucis vs Nif, to some degree), while a small group (Luna, and perhaps Regis himself) is concerned with the bigger problem that's been somewhat pushed to the side that threatens to eclipse everything else (Plague of Stars).
As for her getting abused? That is anger being directed at the fact she has no combat training. The idea that she's badly written because people are able to physically overpower her is, in my opinion, a shallow opinion of what a well-written character is supposed to look like. Blaming the writers is no excuse for that either, because now you're essentially saying any woman in fiction who gets abused alot is incapable of being a good character. Which i'm sure you don't agree with.
Not really going to touch on her personality. She's relentlessly duty-bound, as she should be. But given the circumstances surrounding her shitty life that we've been shown thus far...I don't really know what kind of personality you're expecting this woman to have.
PSY・S;221926435 said:
And if she doesnt? She's already proving useful, but again, without the ability to summon swords and ignite people, I doubt anyone here is going to be calling her an amazing "female character." I don't know what anyone is expecting of her as a character, let alone a female character.
They could have pulled a Larsa with her, but considering she's pretty much on the opposite end of what made Larsa important, her being a party member would be suicide. We're just gonna have to see how she pans out.
PSY・S;221926435 said:
Aranea and Noctis have been shown face slamming eachother into the pavement. I'm not surprised she's better received.
PSY・S;221926435 said:
The thread starts with typical Stella, then Luna, and then Cindy, and then, surprise, alot more Cindy. That thread mirrors basically every thread on this subject, im sure everyone in here has read it in its entirety even if they have never clicked that link.
No, I'm not fucking saying that. Don't put words in my mouth.
PSY・S;216971214 said:
I'm not doing this again.
Comments like this betray a staggering lack of empathy. You've succinctly equated women to sex appeal, do you understand why that's problematic?
LordKasual
Banned
PSY・S;221939935 said:
It really just sounds like the disappointment of Luna is coming from a concept of her back when she was a character that was essentially a mirror of Noctis. Luna has been seen confronting all sorts of shit throughout the footage released of this game. The biggest difference I see here is that her positive reels involve her talking and preserving, instead of....well, potentially being able to fight her way out of her altercations.
When I saw Ardyn slap her, I didn't see a woman being denied any internal or external strength. I see a woman who, through her actions, is literally the only character shown thus far to aggravate Ardyn enough to completely lose his composure. Ardyn, the guy who's been going around disrespecting the fuck out of everyone with a shit eating grin, the guy who's clever enough to probably be betraying everyone. But I dont know, i guess I just see things differently. I guess they should have just stuck to her giving speeches, but i doubt that would have changed anyone's strong opinions on her.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Oh this is gonna be one of those posts.
A.Just because women in real life appreciate boobs doesn't mean they appreciate being constantly objectified in media.
B.Regardless of intention, realism, or whatever, the sexualization, pandering, and objectification is juvenile, uncreative, and ultimately boring.
Except when they're designed solely by a team of men. Objectified characters like Cidney have no agency whatsoever in what they're wearing, especially since in the vast majority of cases, no context is given whatsoever for why they're dressed like that, AND in the rest of the cases the justification is usually incredibly flimsy.
Oh here we go.
You mean women with actual agency in the decisions they make? And get out of here with that "they pretend to be feminists" shit, say what you really wanna say instead of shit like that. Because it's pretty goddamn obvious.
Except for the wide variety of different looking men, we haven't seen a single non conventionally attractive woman whatsoever and all the same women are either sexualized and look incredibly similar to one another. And honestly, I love the "stop beeeing offinded man." because it tells me not to take you seriously. Wanna throw some SJW in there as well? Also speak for yourself, "women are sexy" is not the sole reason or even related to any reason why I like seeing strong women in media and in life. And this discussion is gonna happen with or without you regardless of how many backwards excuses you come up with to justify sexist shit in gaming.
Pancake Mix
Copied someone else's pancake recipe
Damnit, was hoping for Aranea. Ah well, those are some really high-fidelity renders.
Speaking of offended... holy shit this is like an offensively bad statement. You need to reread this and rethink why this might be an awful thing to say.
Wow! That's a whole new level of oblivious misogyny.
Pancake Mix
Copied someone else's pancake recipe
I think SE knows exactly what the ramifications are and why Cidney is even in the game. She's there to move games, as simple as that. She's there to plaster on wall scrolls, plastic statues, towels, books, doujin, fanart, have people talk about FFXV, have articles written about it, and what ever else they can pump out and monetize. She was created to stimulate their target audience (jspanese teenage boys), and if you are not apart of that "core" audience, well, "tough shit, we don't understand what or why you want it, just that you do so we are going to continue to make this game for japanese teenage males in mind". Thing is, its not that they don't care about you, they have no idea you exist. Just as long as you keep paying them money, and hey, sex sells, right?
ScherzoPrime
Member
I mean, she's silly too, but at least it's a traditionally JRPG kind of silly. Cidney reeks of personal excess on Tabata's part.
I dunno, I think this article (about racial representation, but easily expandable to gender as well) makes a pretty decent case for why studios/publishers should care about proper representation. XV isn't some JRPG made to move figma and tissue boxes; it'll live and die on how well it does in the rest. And they have to be concerned about how an element such as this is perceived in those territories, especially when she was for a while and the locus of their advertising campaign.
Uh, no, fuck you, that's not "why we love them", get out of here with that 50s-cigarette-commercial-bullshit. Women are fat, ugly, slim, beautiful, hairy, slender, short, big. Sometimes a woman is sexy, often she is not and it doesn't fucking matter if anyone would "love her" only one way. Also, "they" post on this forum just as "we" do, but I feel pretty bad for them having to read this kind of nonsens. Jesus.
Also, what is that "it's important what THEY want to wear"-stuff? These characters were designed by someone. They dont want to wear anything. As you said, the women were designed to be fapped to. Sorry, but I'm going to continue to not be OK with many female characters being relegated and reduced to fap material in their design. Because it actively makes me enjoy the game less, pulls me out of the world and makes the game worse for me. So I'm going to criticize it.
Also:
Jesus Christ. "THEY WEAR REVEALING CLOTHES AND WANT TO BE FEMINISTS AND ROLE MODELS? LOL". Come on.
enoki
Member
This is why the term "boy's club" is so prominent when discussing the gaming industry. It's exasperating to think this might not ever change, and there will always be people like you to remind me of my worth.
Spazgadget
Member
Balthier from FFXII or GTFO.