StreetsAhead
Member
Because they'd have to acknowledge there was something new in NSMB2.
These levels are a lot of fun and look really cool too, although they do tend to fly by.
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New Super Mario Bros. series and lack of variety in worlds
- Thread starter Why would you do that?
- Start date
Because they'd have to acknowledge there was something new in NSMB2.
These levels are a lot of fun and look really cool too, although they do tend to fly by.
There's onlyBecause they'd have to acknowledge there was something new in NSMB2.
These levels are a lot of fun and look really cool too, although they do tend to fly by.
...4...
Seven Force
Banned
Yeah, it's a shame they're so sparse. They're my favorite thing about the game.
Anticitizen One
Banned
I wish Nintendo would just make a new Super Mario 64 type game with a hub world full of secrets and mystery and a variety of different open worlds to explore.
Well superficially, Mario games are always about the journey to save Peach. That journey seems to have gotten stale somewhat though.
I think worlds shouldn't be defined so much by 'type of area', rather by 'locale'. Imagine something like this:
World 1: Mushroom Kingdom main city: Princess peach is kidnapped, and as usual in mario games, you start out of the castle.
Lv 1: Mushroom Castle Gardens: Peach was kidnapped, and mario sprints after her in an easy low-hazard first level until you reach the castle gates.
Lv2: Mushroom Castle Town: mario traverses and platforms the castle town, which has been invaded by Koopa troops in order to create mayhem and confusion, to swiftly let bowser escape with the princess. The level ends not with a flag pole and a castle, but rather with a flag pole and rubble blocking marios path, but there's a pipe leading to the sewers!!
Lv3: Mushroom Castle Town Sewers: Classic sewer mario level, mario jumps his way around the sewers in search of an exit that can lead him out of town. When mario makes it out he sees peach being taken to a strange tower in the Forest.
Lv4: Mushroom Town Forest: As mario traverses through the forest, evading the goombas and koopa troopas that are rushing to the town, he gets closer and closer to the Koopa Outpost.
Lv5: Koopa Outpost: Mario last saw peach being taken here, so he's set on investigating the place and reclaim the lost princess. When he gets to the boss he is told peach was taken elsewhere, and so defeats the Koopa captain holding guard.
Lv6: Mushroom Town Forest-2: A similar (yet not too similar) level as 4, but a bit more challenging. Upon finishing the level mario finds a great cave which he enters, leading him onward.
Lv7 - The Great Cave: Similar to a sewer level since it's dark and would also host buzzy beetles who walk on the ground but also fall from the top. Bats would also lurk around, and this level would introduce hazards, like ground that at points crumbles, or rocks falling. When you get out of the cave, it's level finished.. and what lies ahead is a giant tree.
Lv8 - Giant Tree: So you go into the tree, where you have to platform up, sometimes making it out of the tree and into branches. When you finish it's one last sprint on the Mushroom plains.
Lv9 - Mushroom plains: Enemies gather to stop mario from reacihng the first fortress. Mario traverses hills, blocks and piranha vines to reach the fortress on the far end of the map!
Lv10 - Koopa General Fortress: A basic fortress which begins with a small garden part, leading to the main hall and through a series of doors, to the final boss of the world.
When mario finishes and finds himself empty-handed, he decides to set course to the Lakitu Mountains... or world 2.
Sorry if I made this too long, but it's the only way i thought of that would express my opinion as i intend it... Basically what i mean is that the game should feel more like a journey, and there should be varying environments in one single world, so as to give a sense of progression. Ii feel that's one thing the older games had (maybe not the original SMB).
I guess this is heavily influenced by SMW, but it's still the best take on the formula in my opinion.
Imagine a desert world, where mario had to not only traverse through the empty desert we already know (and hate), but through a pyramid, an oasis, a quicksand area.
Or what about a spooky world? With a haunted forest, boo mansion's of course, and a graveyard, where all the enemies (save for bats) would be Dry versions??
The game doesn't need to be cinematic, just present situations that would make the flow be more seamless.
I think worlds shouldn't be defined so much by 'type of area', rather by 'locale'. Imagine something like this:
World 1: Mushroom Kingdom main city: Princess peach is kidnapped, and as usual in mario games, you start out of the castle.
Lv 1: Mushroom Castle Gardens: Peach was kidnapped, and mario sprints after her in an easy low-hazard first level until you reach the castle gates.
Lv2: Mushroom Castle Town: mario traverses and platforms the castle town, which has been invaded by Koopa troops in order to create mayhem and confusion, to swiftly let bowser escape with the princess. The level ends not with a flag pole and a castle, but rather with a flag pole and rubble blocking marios path, but there's a pipe leading to the sewers!!
Lv3: Mushroom Castle Town Sewers: Classic sewer mario level, mario jumps his way around the sewers in search of an exit that can lead him out of town. When mario makes it out he sees peach being taken to a strange tower in the Forest.
Lv4: Mushroom Town Forest: As mario traverses through the forest, evading the goombas and koopa troopas that are rushing to the town, he gets closer and closer to the Koopa Outpost.
Lv5: Koopa Outpost: Mario last saw peach being taken here, so he's set on investigating the place and reclaim the lost princess. When he gets to the boss he is told peach was taken elsewhere, and so defeats the Koopa captain holding guard.
Lv6: Mushroom Town Forest-2: A similar (yet not too similar) level as 4, but a bit more challenging. Upon finishing the level mario finds a great cave which he enters, leading him onward.
Lv7 - The Great Cave: Similar to a sewer level since it's dark and would also host buzzy beetles who walk on the ground but also fall from the top. Bats would also lurk around, and this level would introduce hazards, like ground that at points crumbles, or rocks falling. When you get out of the cave, it's level finished.. and what lies ahead is a giant tree.
Lv8 - Giant Tree: So you go into the tree, where you have to platform up, sometimes making it out of the tree and into branches. When you finish it's one last sprint on the Mushroom plains.
Lv9 - Mushroom plains: Enemies gather to stop mario from reacihng the first fortress. Mario traverses hills, blocks and piranha vines to reach the fortress on the far end of the map!
Lv10 - Koopa General Fortress: A basic fortress which begins with a small garden part, leading to the main hall and through a series of doors, to the final boss of the world.
When mario finishes and finds himself empty-handed, he decides to set course to the Lakitu Mountains... or world 2.
Sorry if I made this too long, but it's the only way i thought of that would express my opinion as i intend it... Basically what i mean is that the game should feel more like a journey, and there should be varying environments in one single world, so as to give a sense of progression. Ii feel that's one thing the older games had (maybe not the original SMB).
I guess this is heavily influenced by SMW, but it's still the best take on the formula in my opinion.
Imagine a desert world, where mario had to not only traverse through the empty desert we already know (and hate), but through a pyramid, an oasis, a quicksand area.
Or what about a spooky world? With a haunted forest, boo mansion's of course, and a graveyard, where all the enemies (save for bats) would be Dry versions??
The game doesn't need to be cinematic, just present situations that would make the flow be more seamless.
The special stages from NSMB2 aren't themed, they keep the themes from the other areas, just mixed together and harder.
Personally, I don't mind having similar areas, as long as no two actual levels feel too similar, which I don't think was a problem in NSMB2. Anyway, put in too much variety and it can get tacky, like I think Sonic does.
Personally, I don't mind having similar areas, as long as no two actual levels feel too similar, which I don't think was a problem in NSMB2. Anyway, put in too much variety and it can get tacky, like I think Sonic does.
TheFLYINGManga_Ka
Member
Why would you do that?
Member
I won't go to "abysmal" but it does sorta suck. I wasn't a fan of it in New SMB DS, and while it was a little better in New SMB Wii, it still wasn't all that amazing.
It is, but as I said somewhere, if all of the games have the same settings and similar graphics always, it can get boring to look at. A world made of candy would be very exciting, but if it was in the next 5 Mario games, it would not be so exciting anymore. Plus, a world of candy would bring new and intresting enemies, and perhaps gameplay.
I was thinking about it, but I was in a hurry to go to a job orientation, and re-uploading to imgur takes time.
Uncle Rupee
Banned
This'd be kinda nice for a change.
This'd be kinda nice for a change.
If the game looked like this in real time... mmmm
So pumped for this game. This looks like the real NSMB2. Even the typical first stage level looks much better.
truth to be told, I am not that interested in NSMB 2 for the DS pur I'd be liying if I told you that NSMBU doesn't look great
Uncle Rupee
Banned
Or if not that (because Nintendo doesn't want to revisit Doki Doki Panic) then they should at least try something drastically different like that. It really stands out as one of the more imaginative titles now, because it wasn't intended to be a Mario game to begin with. And I like that.
StreetsAhead
Member
Likely Galaxy and Sunshine were not "originally" Mario games in their prototype stages.
This'd be kinda nice for a change.
That looks so great. I hope they do a spiritual successor to SMB2 someday.
Uncle Rupee
Banned
I'm talking about the NSMB series not the more 3D ones. I don't have a problem with the 3D ones.
The NSMB games aren't bad, they're just not something I can get excited about. That's a problem.
Hell, I think Nintendo ought to give them a break and do a NSMB-style Zelda 2 remake, or Kid Icarus.
Metroid would also be cool in that style, but I would prefer to see something like Kid Icarus since it
hasn't been done in so long.
Or hey, make something with new characters. It's not like Doki Doki Panic wouldn't have been successful
in the US if it wasn't for Mario. I strongly believe Doki Doki Panic would have become a NES classic fondly
remembered even if it was released as-is.
Metroid Hunter
Banned
This'd be kinda nice for a change.
Fuck me. I want this game now.
Dear lawd, make this SM3DLand2!This'd be kinda nice for a change.
StreetsAhead
Member
I will never stop finding it amusing how fondly SMB2 (Doki Doki Panic) is remembered, when it was a re-appropriated licensed game used as a sequel because they thought the "real" sequel was too hard for Western children.
TheNatural
My Member!
Totally agree OP. I've played NSMB DS and NSMB Wii and they were totally unimaginative and unmemorable. Honestly, I can't remember absolutely anything striking about the games, except maybe the underground levels with a plain black background. From the Mario Party esque overworld to inexplicable nonsensical things like keep an ENTIRE world locked from the start in the first NSMB DS, the whole thing seems shot and not in Mario style.
The Wii U one looks pretty good graphically, definitely the best of the bunch by far, but who knows if the worlds will follow the same cookie cutter design as the others.
Not only were games like SMB 3 and SMW very nice with variation among worlds, but also IN the worlds themselves.
SMB 3 was great, from the first world on, at all the differences you just has within a world. In World 2 you had the 'tornado' and angry sun level, you had the block pyramids, you had the interior 'maze' like settings.
Shit just going from level to level was crazy as hell, you didn't know what you would get next. Everything from the scrolling water level, to maze hell, to pipe plant + invisibility star madness in world 7 to "climbing the tower to the sky" in World 5 and the scrolling cloud jumping level of hell with flaming cannonball shit before you got to the Battleship.
In all of the New Super Mario Bros games, I honestly can't recall anything remotely memorable. Granted, a lot of this is nostalgia, but the level design just doesn't compare.
The Wii U one looks pretty good graphically, definitely the best of the bunch by far, but who knows if the worlds will follow the same cookie cutter design as the others.
Not only were games like SMB 3 and SMW very nice with variation among worlds, but also IN the worlds themselves.
SMB 3 was great, from the first world on, at all the differences you just has within a world. In World 2 you had the 'tornado' and angry sun level, you had the block pyramids, you had the interior 'maze' like settings.
Shit just going from level to level was crazy as hell, you didn't know what you would get next. Everything from the scrolling water level, to maze hell, to pipe plant + invisibility star madness in world 7 to "climbing the tower to the sky" in World 5 and the scrolling cloud jumping level of hell with flaming cannonball shit before you got to the Battleship.
In all of the New Super Mario Bros games, I honestly can't recall anything remotely memorable. Granted, a lot of this is nostalgia, but the level design just doesn't compare.
Neff
Member
It's an incredible game, that's why.
StreetsAhead
Member
I've played it. It's a decent enough game, certainly, but it's an anomaly in the Mario series (despite some significant contributions to the series' canon) and it's highly unlikely Nintendo will ever do something like it again, in terms of the style itself or in terms of it as a graphical departure.
doesnt make it not a good game. In fact has the effect of making it one of the most unique Mario games. Wish for new Marios to build on that weirdness. Surprisingly seems to be the one Mario game they havent called back to in any way, Birdo and stage in Brawl aside. Dont think the themes in the game have ever been remixed in other games?
StreetsAhead
Member
Or 2017.
I never stated it wasn't a good game. The thing is, it wasn't a Mario game. There's no (or little) fondness for it in Japan, and presumably for the developers, either.
Starsunder
Member
I fucking love it. Reminds me of the night time stages of SMB1 mixed with background styles of SMB3.
Azure Dream
Member
Huh? I thought Super Mario USA was very positively received. It was included in All-Stars as well, and it was ported as the launch title for the Game Boy Advance, and it was the source of Shy Guys, Snifits, and other enemies that are now mainstays in the Mario series.
lol, Miyamoto said it was his favorite Mario game of all time. And Super Mario USA was indeed a popular game in japan
NeonZ
Member
Huh... You should look back at Smash Bros Melee. It certainly didn't use the "real" Mario designs, just look at Mario, Peach and Bowser. If anything, it was Mario Party that featured the standardized art style for the first time. Melee's art direction was pretty different from the official one for Mario, with the jeans overalls, Peach's body having more realistic proportions and a heavily detailed Bowser with muted colors, very different from the bright cartoonish one in the "official" design sheets.
Shyguys appear quite often in the RPGs and the Yoshi games, they just never made it to the main Mario platformers, aside from that one flying variation in Mario 64. Also, Luigi having a higher jump than Mario started with that game too and made it to some later Mario titles.
exactly what I thought. Looks so much like that level from SM3DL...that game needs a sequel, what a great ride
Skyfireblaze
Member
This'd be kinda nice for a change.
My god that is right on so many levels it's amazing, I would buy it in a heartbeat!
As many others I don't dislike the NSMB games I just find the general design just too... how should I put it... I almost want to say generic but that isn't it, when I look back to the old 2D Mario games they always had some kind of fantasy feel in the design that I just feel anymore in the NSMB series which is sad :/I think they should try to bring a full 2D design back for once much alike that one cancelled Kirby game, a drawn design:
Of course there is Paper Mario but I feel if the art-style is different enough and not paper-ish it might work out and if they would combine it with what Uncle Rupee posted... my god.
Wait did I dream the oasis, pyramid and all levels in nsmb/nsmbw & nsmb2?
What was I playing the whole time then?
That's the whole point of the game, they said it multiple times, they want people playing 2D Mario to play 3D Mario.
2D Mario > 2x 3D Mario sales wise so you can see why they'd want that.
Heck they tried that since Mario Sunshine (and with Galaxy and Galaxy 2 too)
I wish for a Mario game that have both 2D levels à la NSMB and 3D levels à la Super Mario 64. With a hub or maps, I don't know, but agreed for the secret paths to find/unlock.
Both 2D and 3D levels can have stars (or secret coins) to find as well as exit and secret exit.
Thinking out loud, a unique 3D level in each world map can be the hub itself, leading to more 2D levels. And you unlock your path to the world castle with stars much like in the 3D games.
SM3DL did a step toward that (there was a coulpe 3D-ish levels like the first one) so I have hope for the next Super Mario game on Wii U.
The oasis level in NSMB was quite forgettable. And there is one "pyramid" (that looked more like a cave) in NSMBWii (i loved this game overall though). I was thinking more along the lines of 64's pyramid, that look can easily be translated into 2D
Take Castlevania PoR. Even if the type of game is different, that's a good pyramid aesthetic. Or at least you can tell you're in one.
So yeah, it wasn't as distinct, plus that was just a general point for different locales in the desert world, not trying to disregard the previous games.
eXistor
Member
I wish Nintendo would take some risks with NSMB, but you just cannot argue with the level design, that shit is tight (the DS game was weaker in this regard). That alone should sell anyone on them even if I myself really would've liked a bit that creative spark that all other Mario games have.
The art makes it look like a $3 smartphone game. Awesome concept, though.This'd be kinda nice for a change.
It's gonna be pretty hilarious around 2016 when all the people crying 2d Mario overload now are gonna weep about how we haven't gotten one in almost half a decade
That will only happen if 2D Mario games stop being successful. And that will only happen if consumers get tired of the franchise. And that will only happen if Nintendo starts releasing 2D Marios that recycle the same aural and visual properties with little original design besides different level arrange.....ments.... oh God... it's already begun.
It would only happen if we got a 2D mario game every single year which isn't going to happen, I think was his point.
If you think they're gonna release a second 2d Mario for the console, when historically they haven't released more than 1 game per major franchise since always (exceptions prime pikmin galaxy) and specially now that they're gonna be offering dlc sure I guess.
I mean they rehashed the artstyle so much that we had like 8 NSMB games on DS!
No, his point was to get in a slight against anyone reasonably criticizing the Mario overload. i.e. "crying". It's what people do when they feel offended by opposing opinions.
Mine was just to make fun of both Nintendo and Boney. I have no idea when they're going to release another 2D Mario. No one does. By the end of this year, we will have had four NSMBs in six years. I'm not convinced that Nintendo is now going to let us go until 2016 without another, abstaining from milking the cash cow, just out of respect for some rule that doesn't exist.
The rationale is, we have to get a new 2d mario out asap for our new systems because they're our number 1 seller. And they're constantly their number one seller, without having to rely on on sequels because of their sales curve.
It's prefectly fine to not be interested in 2 Marios in a 3 month span. I'm not, so I'll be skipping the Mario U that looks amazing might I add, and it'll be waiting for me 2 years down the line without even a price drop because of how these games are designed to be incorporated in the marketplace.
If you think NSMB 3 is coming next year or whatever then sure, believe what you want, but you must have an attention span of a goldfish to think that.
Pardon? Where did I say that? No more straw mans, please.Boney said:
Nintendo is my favourite developer and Mario might be my favourite series (or Metroid). But I think the NSMB series has been pretty shameful and the complaints are valid. I'm surprised that you're being so defensive.
a rule clearly does exist and it's called franchise fatigue. NSMB is like mario kart, animal crossing, and many other nintendo franchises. 1 installment per system. The titles are evergreen and sell well throughout the life of nintendo platforms. The fact that they're supporting a NSMB game post release through DLC only further points towards them focusing on one installment per system rather than "milking the cash cow" and releasing another NSMB game for the same platform.
with the wii-u yet to even release and the 3DS being under 2 years old not expecting another NSMB game until 2016 or beyond is completely reasonable. when the successors to the 3DS and wii-u come out we'll see the franchise (or at least 2d mario in some form) return and not a moment sooner.
Well I guess one has to be vocal that those are the levels you want to see more of with DLC.
Mihael Mello Keehl
Banned
I am actually skipping 2 for NSMBU. Want the nsmb feeling fresh on launch day.
This'd be kinda nice for a change.
So wait, the artstyle for NSMB is generic and bland and yet this is celebrated? It looks like a flash game rip off of SMB2.
Look at who I quoted first.
Like I said, I'm not convinced. They released two SMGs on the Wii. I think we'll see another 2D Mario on the 3DS or the Wii-U (could definitely be wrong - I just don't share your certainty). They don't seem entirely concerned about franchise fatigue - otherwise we wouldn't be seeing NSMB2 this year. It's not like NSMB or NSMBWii were released anywhere near their system's launch.
Well, he was obviously kidding. Also didn't think it was relevant since your post focused on "all the people crying about Mario overload".Boney said: