Very much so. Win or lose, both players come out not gaining a damn thing from the match.
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New Ultra Street Fighter 4 Info
- Thread starter ponpo
- Start date
wait what's all this now?
RockTurtle
Member
i think the FGC needs an adrenaline boost and this might be it.
the new characters and new additions will make discovery fun.
the new characters and new additions will make discovery fun.
Professor Beef
Banned
Well the non-Fuerte player gains steps towards an aneurysm.
Lost Fragment
Obsessed with 4chan
Wumbo Combo.
I'm not sure I agree. IMO, the game itself is more interesting than it's ever been at a high level, due to the fact that we largely know what the dominant tactics and strategies are, and any deviations from the established, ideal models are relatively minor. We know the Fireball patterns, the teleport mixups, the vortex situations and the command grab mixups.
The game seems to finally be getting to the point where its more about the players and their dedication to the game, and the gimmicks of characters/matchups still in the process of development aren't as much of a factor. Look at what Daigo's done these passed few months. He didn't take Ryu to a new level as much as he took his own play to a new level with his renewed focus on player knowledge and spacing. The results have been dramatic and nothing less than exciting (at least for me). It reminded me that getting passed a competitive plateau isn't about stumbling across some new technology, new combo, or counter picking as much as it's about redefining how you see the game (and examining yourself within its context).
Sure, it's nice to have a new game that hits the reset button for the base spectrum, and the process of discovery is fun, but I'd like to see at least one of these newer games just breath for a number of years, unadulterated, so I can truly see what some of these players are made of. IMO, the more you tinker with the balance, the more it's about the game and designer ego, and the less it is about the players.
People talking about Chun...
As it is, Kikoushou will do like 200 damage unscaled, which would mean around 120 after short short ex legs.
Also, red focus will be like mashing DP in Persona. One touch and half your life is gone for good. Wakeup red parry might destroy a bunch of mixups, though, so it would be worth the meter and the risk.
As it is, Kikoushou will do like 200 damage unscaled, which would mean around 120 after short short ex legs.
Also, red focus will be like mashing DP in Persona. One touch and half your life is gone for good. Wakeup red parry might destroy a bunch of mixups, though, so it would be worth the meter and the risk.
RockTurtle
Member
he got hired last year i think. doing lots of work balancing.
also i suspect he's going to buff GUY since that's who he used to give Poongko a beating when he was hot shit.
Ragingnight
Member
you can't even mash red parry. You don't have the meter for it.
I won't be using W Ultra with Chun ever. I think she'll be good for other reasons, mostly vortex escape being solved and red focus makes her ex hazanshu breaking armour a lot more important. If you're putting pressure on and they red focus, you can armour break or escape with it, either way you're in a good spot.
I mean if you red focus a super, you're taking all that grey damage.
Yep, as soon as you start red focus you've lost 2 bars, even if you hold it for a split second and backdash, bye bye. They should only make it turn red when it gets touched or it reaches level 2 where it becomes unblockable lol.
But it's better do 120 than nothing.
Having both UC it will prevent fireball spam + giving an oportunit to have an usable ultra.
And I think Kikoushou should have a damage increase, it's so weak =(
It is getting a damage increase
Nocturno999
Member
Well, Dictator is fucked so far because his scissor knees, his main pressure tool will get red parried easily. Now imagine against Zangief, Guy and all the cast with grappling Ultras.
People were saying earlier how double ultra is a huge boon for Chun, but it really isn't. Agreed on your other points, too, although meter management would be a pain.
Professor Beef
Banned
Red parries cost 2 bars. I don't see how that's "easy."
costs 2 meters, forces you to be less formulaic/derpy. I don't see the problem.
Nocturno999
Member
Stocking 2 bars is very easy. Now imagine having a health disadvantage against a grappler. Bison doesn't even have an overhead nor you can't jump so your only hope is to grab them or use frame traps which are very risky against these characters.
Professor Beef
Banned
I suppose being a defeatist is easier than coming up with an alternate gameplan.
Nocturno999
Member
*Sigh* learn the match up please before coming with these remarks.
What about a "fake" scissor kick that gets you up to them to throw them?
What kind of world do we live in where I can't abuse double knee press with impunity? So what if you knew I was going to do it? You shouldn't be able to punish it
!Professor Beef
Banned
That's funny, I could say the exact same thing to you since Bison has a good time against grapplers.
Nocturno999
Member
May be overpowered against characters like shotos. A scissor knees with armor break may work.
SandMan2233
Member
I will say this as a "meh" SSF4 player who loves T. Hawk:
Watching that video of the "Red Focus" stuff in action, I can't wait to see what grapple characters (especially my beloved T. Hawk) are capable of tricking-up.
Though the system itself can almost be seen as a desperate design decision ("We've got to BUFF without actually BUFFING!!!"), I think it could be a very cool and conscious "mind-game" play-style in effect. Seeing the video Ryu "Red Focus" through Ken's HP-Shoryuken gives me hope that the developers have actually created a unique and effective "counter" to Shoto-characters in this iteration.
Oh, and the double-Ultra Combo thing... Again, a character like T. Hawk can only benefit from such a change... It's a very blanket-styled buff, but it allows a guy like me to have options on a character with, well, shitty options, heheh. Sure it does less damage than a "normal" Ultra, but I can live with that if that means that I'm not immediately shut-down at the loading screen when I see that Player-2 is playing anything than my treasured THAWK.
Watching that video of the "Red Focus" stuff in action, I can't wait to see what grapple characters (especially my beloved T. Hawk) are capable of tricking-up.
Though the system itself can almost be seen as a desperate design decision ("We've got to BUFF without actually BUFFING!!!"), I think it could be a very cool and conscious "mind-game" play-style in effect. Seeing the video Ryu "Red Focus" through Ken's HP-Shoryuken gives me hope that the developers have actually created a unique and effective "counter" to Shoto-characters in this iteration.
Oh, and the double-Ultra Combo thing... Again, a character like T. Hawk can only benefit from such a change... It's a very blanket-styled buff, but it allows a guy like me to have options on a character with, well, shitty options, heheh. Sure it does less damage than a "normal" Ultra, but I can live with that if that means that I'm not immediately shut-down at the loading screen when I see that Player-2 is playing anything than my treasured THAWK.
But is it a good idea to change the style simply based on what professional groomers say? I think if he wants to appeal to a broader audience then he has to understand what the mainstream or casual beard fan thinks, and the reality is there's going to be camps who agree with his decision and camps who don't. In the end all we can really do is see how much pussy he gets and let the numbers speak for themselves.
Yeah the ultra changes aren't worth caring about. If anything, it makes it so that me punishing a bad fireball with ultra 1 is less of a pain for shotos. I'm sure plenty would have no problem taking the scaled down damage in exchange for me getting rid of the ultra threat.
I think buffing ex hazanshu is a neat thing, because that means that I definitely won't have super afterwards if I use it as an escape. Chun's game is really heavily based on meter management already, this just further adds to it.
Unrelated but you might like this. I just realized yesterday that neutral jump fierce fierce, standing close fierce xx hk sbk does 390 damage with no meter. That's ridiculous! And she has (had?) safe jump setups with neutral jumping fierce.
Oni Link 666
Member
I never liked focus attacks to begin with, so I don't like the sound of red focus. Having both Ultras available sounds cool, though. I don't know if they need to be nerfed in damage. We had multiple supers available in past games and it was fine.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
Cool. Can't wait to play it!
...this is why i try not to participate in any sf-related threads outside of the OT.
*sigh*
all we need now is the yun mains coming in saying their char is crippled beyond repair
I don't see how it's anti-srk when you have to guess the srk coming. If a player loves to do the old Ken classic step kick into srk shoryuken while fishing for a counterhit sure it could pay off, but if you get thrown instead you've lost 120 dmg, in a setup from Ken and lost 2 bars.
Professor Beef
Banned
Omnistalgic
Member
yea captain obvious...his risk reward shoots up dramatically tho for certain characters since air and ground ultra gives him twice the setups..keeping him out can be more easily erased now with one mistake..
It goes both ways, you can get hit more easily but it does way less damage. It's still going to be a horrible matchup against Sagat. Oh no I took 220 dmg from his just gained ultra 2 even though I have 1000 and i've hit him with 6 standing hks and a few tiger shots already.
Deckard Cain
Banned
I would advise against arguing SF Theory on GAF. Let them think whatever they want.
Omnistalgic
Member
well said...I share the same sentiments, hopefully it's just as balanced and these changes aren't as drastic as they seem. Personally I have a hard time reacting especially online to stuff like Fuerte or viper mixups...I mean I really detest having to go to training or looking up videos of certain characters just to learn how to defend against them. If I can get a system in place for my slower reaction that would be nice for me, because after watching replays know these players are basically playing on auto pilot..but if u can't stop the vortex, no reason to stop right? My only true gripe with sf. If a gief or guile ryu etc whooped my ken 100 times in a row, I'd always want more. But after losing to viper, I'm just ready to break the game lol...I hope the tricks stuff is toned down even more so and players have to simply out think one another...
Omnistalgic
Member
yea I feel u...this obvious reaction to grapplers definitely hasn't escaped the notice of the design team. First glance they get a boost, reality is, damage is reduced and red focus seems to be a big risk other than to escape
Omnistalgic
Member
where are we supposed to talk about it then? Srk? Lol
tokyostomp
Banned
Just make part 5 for next gen...
Professor Beef
Banned
He's mad because he got stomped on in another thread.
They're probably doing that right now, meanwhile I'll play this game when it comes out on systems most people will still be on that's still getting amazing games throughout next year. SFIV came out after a few years of last gen, I don't see SFV being any different, they'll want people to have moved on before releasing it.