Support NeoGAF

[duckroll]

I love Phantasia for the plot, which is intact in the SNES version. His complaints were all about the battle system, which is pitch perfect in the remakes - that's why I replied with that. Personally I don't care about the battle system unless it's the GBA version, which is pretty much unplayable.

I dunno, both the PSX and the PSP version make rather big changes to the plot too. Imo, all the changes were made for the better, but none of that had to do with Gotanda either. Namco doesn't give a fuck about his "Tale Phantasia" and since he left the company they have other scenario writers cleaning up that shit.

You can't sit on both sides of the fench. You can't take a stand that Tales died with Gotanda leaving Namco, and then go on to say that Tales Studio actually managed to handle the remakes really well, so much so that you can recommend them over the SNES version - which is the only version that Gotanda worked on. If the PSX/PSP versions are so good, how can you then still argue that there is no one at Tales Studio talented enough to continue the Tales series without Gotanda?

 

[Zeed]

I dunno, both the PSX and the PSP version make rather big changes to the plot too. Imo, all the changes were made for the better, but none of that had to do with Gotanda either. Namco doesn't give a fuck about his "Tale Phantasia" and since he left the company they have other scenario writers cleaning up that shit.

You can't sit on both sides of the fench. You can't take a stand that Tales died with Gotanda leaving Namco, and then go on to say that Tales Studio actually managed to handle the remakes really well, so much so that you can recommend them over the SNES version - which is the only version that Gotanda worked on. If the PSX/PSP versions are so good, how can you then still argue that there is no one at Tales Studio talented enough to continue the Tales series without Gotanda?

I don't see anything contradictory about my stance at all. My understanding is that the scenario, characters, and plot were Gotanda's work. Those were (for the most part) left intact when the game was remade. The remake updated the graphics, improved upon the game technically, while leaving the parts that appealed most to me unchanged.

Without his creative vision, I absolutely think the series suffered even as it grew technically superior with each iteration. That's my opinion. I know others might think otherwise, but I certainly don't think I'm contradicting myself.

 

[Colonel Mustard]

mind giving an example?

I dunno? Maybe through the entire game I got tired of pressing the attack button, and Cless taking off to attack about 2 to 3 seconds later?

The newer Tales Of battle systems don't have this problem?

Maybe this isn't latency, maybe this is just the way the battle systems are supposed to be?

 

[duckroll]

I don't see anything contradictory about my stance at all. My understanding is that the scenario, characters, and plot were Gotanda's work. Those were (for the most part) left intact when the game was remade. The remake updated the graphics, improved upon the game technically, while leaving the parts that appealed most to me unchanged.

Without his creative vision, I absolutely think the series suffered even as it grew technically superior with each iteration. That's my opinion. I know others might think otherwise, but I certainly don't think I'm contradicting myself.

Your understanding is not entirely correct. From Namco's point of view, Gotanda's biggest asset was that he was one hellavu programmer. He coded almost all of ToP himself from scratch. The fact that he came up with the scenario and whatnot is less important, because ToP in itself, is not his true vision. It's just Namco's adaptation of his original story. The remakes are further rewrites and expansions on a scenario that even he does not acknowledge. That's why he left Namco.

Unfortunately although he's probably one of the top programmers in the videogame world, he is a pretty shitty writer, and in this, Namco was probably right to have to readapt his work in the first place. Look at SO, SO2 and SO3. Come on, the guy is a horrible writer! :lol

 

[PepsimanVsJoe]

I gotta admit that the later Tales games are way more fun than ToP.

 

[Zeed]

I dunno? Maybe through the entire game I got tired of pressing the attack button, and Cless taking off to attack about 2 to 3 seconds later?

The newer Tales Of battle systems don't have this problem?

Maybe this isn't latency, maybe this is just the way the battle systems are supposed to be?

Are you sure you were playing with the Manual option on?

Sounds like you were playing on Semi-Auto mode. The SNES version is always in Semi-Auto mode, but the PS1 version allows you to take direct control through Manual mode.

Look at SO, SO2 and SO3. Come on, the guy is a horrible writer! :lol

This is true. Star Ocean 3 was one of my most infuriating disappointments of all time. Maybe I am giving him too much credit.

 

[duckroll]

This is true. Star Ocean 3 was one of my most infuriating disappointments of all time. Maybe I am giving him too much credit.

I think Gotanda can't ever get "too much credit" as far as we're talking about him as a technical director and programmer. He's a god at that. His creative skills, not so much. There's a reason why Norimoto does all the gameplay design in Tri-Ace games.

 

[zaccheus]

I love zidane's new design

 

[PepsimanVsJoe]

Wouldn't playing in manual mode kind of go against Gotanda's vision anyway?
I mean he clearly designed ToP for semi-auto right?

Still not buying all this talk about plot and scenarios and all that either. I can usually put together a rough sketch of what the story was for many rpgs but for SO2 I can only draw a complete blank.

He didn't design jack shit as far as gameplay goes. :lol

So why do we like this guy again? I'm lost.
Oh he's a great programmer. Well I can't hate on that.

 

[duckroll]

Wouldn't playing in manual mode kind of go against Gotanda's vision anyway?
I mean he clearly designed ToP for semi-auto right?

He didn't design jack shit as far as gameplay goes. :lol

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

I love zidane's new design

I know! He has so many more belts now! They are useful for holding up your pants.

 

[Zeed]

Wouldn't playing in manual mode kind of go against Gotanda's vision anyway?

I mean he clearly designed ToP for semi-auto right?

If it's not plot-related, I don't really care. Besides, just because Manual mode wasn't in the original release doesn't meant he'd disapprove of it being in there. The LMB System was brand new, of course they didn't get it exactly right the first time.

Edit: Duckroll obviously knows better than me. Listen to him.

 

[duckroll]

Gotanda is a fucking amazing programmer, I think it'll be really, really sad if all people remembered him for was writing the base scenario for ToP.

Let's see, at the age of 19, he coded the entire engine for ToP himself. Not only was ToP was complex SFC game at the time, but it was also:

- the first 48mbit cart
- the only SFC game to have a vocal song
- the first SFC RPG to have a good amount of battle voices (the only other would be SO)

After this he has the balls to leave Namco to form his own company with his friends. And continues to create some of the best looking, fastest loading JRPGs on any system they work on with a totally consistant smooth framerate.

Is there a challenger in Japan for this man? I think not.

 

[Crab Milk Mickey]

Dang, another Budokai.

Do not want. :<

 

[PepsimanVsJoe]

Gotanda is a fucking amazing programmer, I think it'll be really, really sad if all people remembered him for was writing the base scenario for ToP.

Let's see, at the age of 19, he coded the entire engine for ToP himself. Not only was ToP was complex SFC game at the time, but it was also:

- the first 48mbit cart
- the only SFC game to have a vocal song
- the first SFC RPG to have a good amount of battle voices (the only other would be SO)

After this he has the balls to leave Namco to form his own company with his friends. And continues to create some of the best looking, fastest loading JRPGs on any system they work on with a totally consistant smooth framerate.

Is there a challenger in Japan for this man? I think not.

Awesome stuff.

 

[Zeed]

Gotanda is a fucking amazing programmer, I think it'll be really, really sad if all people remembered him for was writing the base scenario for ToP.

Let's see, at the age of 19, he coded the entire engine for ToP himself. Not only was ToP was complex SFC game at the time, but it was also:

- the first 48mbit cart
- the only SFC game to have a vocal song
- the first SFC RPG to have a good amount of battle voices (the only other would be SO)

After this he has the balls to leave Namco to form his own company with his friends. And continues to create some of the best looking, fastest loading JRPGs on any system they work on with a totally consistant smooth framerate.

Is there a challenger in Japan for this man? I think not.

That's actually pretty incredible, I didn't know that.

 

[Link1110]

- the only SFC game to have a vocal song

Down the World had a vocal song.
http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm1264535

 

[duckroll]

That's actually pretty incredible, I didn't know that.

Yeah, the guy's only 31 now and he's the president of Tri-Ace and the R&D Programming Lead that's going to make all 360 developers cry next year!

 

[Kyoufu]

Yeah, the guy's only 31 now and he's the president of Tri-Ace and the R&D Programming Lead that's going to make all 360 developers cry next year!

You mean with IU? I'm really hyped for that.

 

[Jiggy]

I'm not even touching the raging debate, but I'll just say this: having Tales and Star Ocean pictures in one location makes me so happy that I think it has a residual carryover effect where Blue Dragon Plus, Summon Night, Rosario and Vampire, and even that "unknown" DS game with the freaky soulless-looking dude all seem marginally interesting to me when ordinarily I'd give them a glance and then very quickly move on.

What in the world is that Rosario game, anyway: a hybrid fighter and dating sim?

Look at SO, SO2 and SO3. Come on, the guy is a horrible writer! :lol

SO2?
Well, maybe if you only cared about the overall story arc. I'd be happy with even zero plot as long as the characters were charming and interesting, which they were in SO2 after that first hour. (Actually, sometimes zero plot would be preferable to what people come up with, but that's another matter...)

 

[CrisKre]

TOS: KOR
http://www.jeux-france.com/Webmasters/Images/60041520071219_183353_0_big.jpg

Ok. I must say im getting more and more psyched for tales of Symphonia KOR. Those character models are trillion times better than symphonoia's or abbys's and closer in quality to Eternal Sonata (with much better design IMO). If namco pulls this off im going to forgive the latest atrocities they pumped out (and the announcement of FRAGILE as well goes a long way into that). If they nail dungeon design this will be a great game. YAY!

 

[Error]

Well, well. Looks like they added Welch from SO3 into SO1 as a bit of fanservice. She's a lot sillier looking in that piece of art :lol

her art is terrible lolol, but it's cool to see her back I kinda enjoyed the scenes of her goofing off when you call for patents and info.

ps. SO3 is awesummmmmmmmmm 140 hours and still havent gotten bored. Star Ocean 1 Sfam is tri-Ace worst game imo, I hope the remake turns out well because it really needed a revision.

 

[Stumpokapow]

Yeah, the guy's only 31 now and he's the president of Tri-Ace and the R&D Programming Lead that's going to make all 360 developers cry next year!

Even besides Gotanda, the rest of the tri-Ace crew are pretty brilliant as well. I obviously don't have as great of a memory for credits as you do, but obviously credit is due to Hiroya Hatsushiba who was Gotanda's sound programmer on a number of the Telenet and later tri-Ace games... and then left tri-Ace to found tri-Crescendo, who have a pretty damn good record themselves (sound work on VP PSX, SO3, RS, VP2, development on Baten Kaitos and BK2 and Eternal Sonata, plus the upcoming Fragile).

But yeah, much love for Gotanda. I'll be picking up IU day one (of the US release...)

 

[harSon]

Gotanda is a fucking amazing programmer, I think it'll be really, really sad if all people remembered him for was writing the base scenario for ToP.

Let's see, at the age of 19, he coded the entire engine for ToP himself. Not only was ToP was complex SFC game at the time, but it was also:

- the first 48mbit cart
- the only SFC game to have a vocal song
- the first SFC RPG to have a good amount of battle voices (the only other would be SO)

After this he has the balls to leave Namco to form his own company with his friends. And continues to create some of the best looking, fastest loading JRPGs on any system they work on with a totally consistant smooth framerate.

Is there a challenger in Japan for this man? I think not.

That is pretty amazing. I'm currently 19 and only have 2 or so years of programming skills. To have been able to program an entire engine, he'd have had to been programming for quite some time.

 

[Stumpokapow]

That is pretty amazing. I'm currently 19 and only have 2 or so years of programming skills. To have been able to program an entire engine, he'd have had to been programming for quite some time.

You also have to realize that you're dealing with the SFC, so your programming is either going to be in C with substantial chunks of 65816 ASM, or entirely in 65816 ASM. You've got a 21 MHz processor and barely any RAM to work with. You've got basically no system libraries, although you probably have some sample code. Debugging is also substantially harder than it is now with built-in consoles and breakpoints and memory dumps.

I'm not sure what sort of programming you do, but there are very few programmers who can effectively work under severe technical constraints. Most of my work is web-based so I have the luxury of pissing away an awful lot of resources and relying on hardware upgrades to compensate... The few times in my life that I've done substantial projects in ASM, it has been absolutely killer on my productivity. I'm always impressed by gurus who have this stuff mastered.

 

[Greatness Gone]

Can anyone tell me what the main consensus is of the Death Note DS games?

 

[Hunahan]

So wait.....Kingdom Hearts DS is about Roxas and Kingdom Hearts PSP gets Sora?

Jesus Christ, PSP superior version soooooooo confirmed. :lol

 

[Greatness Gone]

So wait.....Kingdom Hearts DS is about Roxas and Kingdom Hearts PSP gets Sora?

Jesus Christ, PSP superior version soooooooo confirmed. :lol

No, actually.

 

[flipping_heck]

TOS2 looks to be shaping up nicely, the only thing that is bugging me is the lack of a free-roam world map.. i want to walk to my towns/cities!

 

[ShockingAlberto]

So wait.....Kingdom Hearts DS is about Roxas and Kingdom Hearts PSP gets Sora?

Jesus Christ, PSP superior version soooooooo confirmed. :lol

Protip: Reading before posting generally helps you avoid looking like an ass.

 

[ethelred]

TOS2 looks to be shaping up nicely, the only thing that is bugging me is the lack of a free-roam world map.. i want to walk to my towns/cities!

That's because it isn't Tales of Symphonia 2.

 

[Datschge]

- the first 48mbit cart

Filling space is no achievement. What he was great at is using the SNES' limited processing power for plenty subtle scaling, transparency and polygonal effects. The Wolfteam logo in my avatar is his, and ToP SFC and SO1 are filled with lively activity (interactive shadows, lights, mirrors in the water, rope bridge reacting to weight, battle screens with multiple background layers and mode 7 grounds, particle effects etc. Nearly all of which was cut in the GBA port incidentally.)

- the only SFC game to have a vocal song
- the first SFC RPG to have a good amount of battle voices (the only other would be SO)

As pointed out before that's Hiroya Hatsushiba's work. The sound driver is remarkable for offering 16 virtual channels for the SNES' 8 actual channels and loading sample data only on demand, thus circumventing the SPC700's limited 64kb of RAM.

After this he has the balls to leave Namco to form his own company with his friends.

He left the developer Telenet Japan. Publisher Namco had no business in that. Graphic designer Yoshiaki "Joshua ING" Inagaki (who was lead graphic director of SO2 and did the original ToP sprite art before Namco close to release decided it would be a good idea to let Fujishima create confliction "official" character designs) confirmed on his website that there actually was no ill-feeling in the separation. Even after tri-Ace was set up (April 1995) much of the staff continued working on ToP (released December 1995) and prepared SO1 (released July(!) 1996). Initially Namco even offered tri-Ace to develop a ToP2 which didn't happen as they already secured the SO1 deal with Enix.

Btw. Yoshiharu Gotanda even today looks like just getting off school:

 

[Mefisutoferesu]

he looks like sp0rsk... 0o

 

[Error]

it's kinda funny how some people ask tri-Ace, if they are going to use graphics engines from other companies for their games, like UE3. the answer Ogawa gave to Gamespy was pretty funny.

GameSpy: Why did you decide to build your own engine, instead of just going with Unreal Engine 3, or something like that?

Hiroshi Ogawa: tri-Ace has always used its own engines, so we don't even think about using someone else's.

:bow tri-Ace :bow

 

[Crab Milk Mickey]

So... did V-Jump say anything worth mentioning about DBZ: Burst Limit or what?

 

[Zeed]

So wait.....Kingdom Hearts DS is about Roxas and Kingdom Hearts PSP gets Sora?

Jesus Christ, PSP superior version soooooooo confirmed. :lol

Was this a parody post or something?

 

[Fuu]

Since those scans have their own thread now, I'll repeat myself.

I want TOS: KOR, but for now it's for the simple and shallow reason that I like the main character looks and description.

And that's the dwarves house from Snow White in the Birth by Sleep screen. It'll rock my nostalgia glandule to have Maleficent and Queen in the same game.

Terra, Vayne, Mysterious Young Girl.

That's a bit strange. I thought her name was revealed to be Aqua long ago.

That's because it isn't Tales of Symphonia 2.

Hehe, if only you got one dollar for everytime you have to correct people about that.

Tales died after 1 game?

What about ToD? Ogawa only left for Tri-Ace after that!

I see what you did there.

 

[thetrin]

So wait.....Kingdom Hearts DS is about Roxas and Kingdom Hearts PSP gets Sora?

Jesus Christ, PSP superior version soooooooo confirmed. :lol

Cell phone gets Sora. the KH PSP character is Tera. DS gets Roxas. Roxas was a cooler character than Sora.

 

[rollingstart]

!!!

DBZ Burst Limit is actually back to what looks like a normal fighting game!

 

[Stumpokapow]

Btw. Yoshiharu Gotanda even today looks like just getting off school:

Unfortunately Famitsu doesn't allow direct-linking now, but I ended up looking at the picture and holy shit he looks younger than I am.

 

[Fuu]

He's cute when he's not doing funny faces.

 

[Datschge]

Unfortunately Famitsu doesn't allow direct-linking now, but I ended up looking at the picture and holy shit he looks younger than I am.

Odd, if so it looks like they detect this not by refer data but by IP, as loading it in another browser without visiting the site worked just fine. Anyway:

 

[GeneralIroh]

I know! He has so many more belts now! They are useful for holding up your pants.

Nothing is wrong with the belts. :lol You drama queens crack me up.

 

[Pureauthor]

Cell phone gets Sora. the KH PSP character is Tera. DS gets Roxas. Roxas was a cooler character than Sora.

Duh. He's an Org. XIII member.

 

[Jonnyram]

BD+ looks nice... hopefully it will be a teeny weeny bit better than FF12RW.

 

[Stat Flow]

IS THIS ANOTHER [Next Gen!] INSTALLMENT IN THE BUDOKAI SERIES?

FUCKYESFUCKYESFUCKYESFUCKYESFUCKYESFUCKYESFUCKYESFUCKYESFUCKYESFUCKYES

But seriously, nice. Budokai 3 was one of my favorite PS2 games ever. And then they shit on the series with Budokai Tenkaichi. And now it's back to it's roots in next gen? Hell yes.

I see it says 2008 (presumably for Japan) and for PS3, 360 (In an attempt to not be redundant, Fuck yes) is there any more [valuable] info in the scans?

On another note, I can't wait to see more of KH: BBS. Looks fantastic.

 

[neo2046]

Bleach 5 PSP
http://www.jeux-france.com/Webmasters/Images/62051120071220_055359_0_big.jpg

Bleach The 3rd Phantom DS
http://www.jeux-france.com/Webmasters/Images/60911020071220_055823_0_big.jpg
http://www.jeux-france.com/Webmasters/Images/60911020071220_055824_1_big.jpg

Dragon Quest V DS
http://www.jeux-france.com/Webmasters/Images/60311020071220_060356_0_big.jpg
http://www.jeux-france.com/Webmasters/Images/60311020071220_060357_1_big.jpg

Naruto Dairansen
http://www.jeux-france.com/Webmasters/Images/61931020071216_175057_0_big.jpg
http://www.jeux-france.com/Webmasters/Images/61931020071220_062658_0_big.jpg
http://www.jeux-france.com/Webmasters/Images/61931020071220_062700_1_big.jpg

Super Smash Bros. Brawl
http://www.jeux-france.com/Webmasters/Images/51441520071220_061141_0_big.jpg
http://www.jeux-france.com/Webmasters/Images/51441520071220_061143_1_big.jpg
http://www.jeux-france.com/Webmasters/Images/51441520071220_061144_2_big.jpg
http://www.jeux-france.com/Webmasters/Images/51441520071220_061146_3_big.jpg

DECA SPORTA
http://www.jeux-france.com/Webmasters/Images/60541520071220_061751_0_big.jpg

FFCC
http://www.jeux-france.com/Webmasters/Images/61341520071220_055114_0_big.jpg
http://www.jeux-france.com/Webmasters/Images/61341520071220_055115_1_big.jpg

Hit man Reborn Wii
http://www.jeux-france.com/Webmasters/Images/55571520071220_063228_0_big.jpg
http://www.jeux-france.com/Webmasters/Images/55571520071220_063230_1_big.jpg
http://www.jeux-france.com/Webmasters/Images/55571520071220_063231_2_big.jpg
http://www.jeux-france.com/Webmasters/Images/55571520071220_063233_3_big.jpg

 

[Kintaro]

Bleach The 3rd Phantom DS
http://www.jeux-france.com/Webmasters/Images/60911020071220_055823_0_big.jpg
http://www.jeux-france.com/Webmasters/Images/60911020071220_055824_1_big.jpg

On one hand, I'm pissed this isn't another cool ass fighting game. On the other, I'm interested in what they will do with this game.

 

[neo2046]

Prince of Tennis Driving Smash DS
Hit man Reborn DS board game
Hit man Reborn DS RPG
Digimon Championship 2008 DS
Chrono Q Wii

 

[Yoboman]

Oh shit, Budokai 4?

Budokai 3 was REALLY good, then they went and fucked it up with Tenkaichi