Bonsaibäumchen
Member
No need to call him out just look at his twitter profile and thisr that retweet the same message:
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No need to call him out just look at his twitter profile and thisr that retweet the same message:
jackets with pockets
Banned
New reply from Insider of the Week: youtube.com/watch?v=cIqzGJl8tw8&lc=UgzG0Zj_AJs9JCpHoY54AaABAg
Jeff Rickel said:
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megreotsugua
Banned
Little Jason S. Takes a console warrior to know of another!(not you, jason s... he's a closeted fanboy who has said in the past he's not objective. he has an agenda)
He's leaning on our side for sure. But he's classy about it.
For comparison, I don't hate Phil. I think he's ok. That dictator guy from DF though. He speak as though he's an expert on making games.
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I won't give him my source and I have no wish to be vetted. All I can say is that it will be a great gen for both MS and Sony. Be hyped guys, as gamers we all win.
I'll keep my mouth shut from now on and return to my lurking.
megreotsugua
Banned
I won't give him my source and I have no wish to be vetted. All I can say is that it will be a great gen for both MS and Sony. Be hyped guys, as gamers we all win.
Hey wait. Last question. Just a comment about VRS and Mesh Shaders. They say PS5 don't have them.
Rusco Da Vino
Member
I won't give him my source and I have no wish to be vetted. All I can say is that it will be a great gen for both MS and Sony. Be hyped guys, as gamers we all win.
Do you know if the PS5 has shared RAM as the XSX?
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Aceofspades
Banned
I took a few minutes to extract all Mark Cerny's quotations from the Digital Foundry article. Including all what it was omitted in the DF Video.
Lets combat the FUD with FACTS
PlayStation 5's boost clocks and how they work
"Because there are no more unknowns, there's no need to guess what power consumption the worst case game might have." "As for the details of the cooling solution, we're saving them for our teardown, I think you'll be quite happy with what the engineering team came up with"
"We don't use the actual temperature of the die, as that would cause two types of variance between PS5s." "One is variance caused by differences in ambient temperature; the console could be in a hotter or cooler location in the room. The other is variance caused by the individual custom chip in the console, some chips run hotter and some chips run cooler. So instead of using the temperature of the die, we use an algorithm in which the frequency depends on CPU and GPU activity information. That keeps behaviour between PS5s consistent."
"The behaviour of all PS5s is the same." "If you play the same game and go to the same location in the game, it doesn't matter which custom chip you have and what its transistors are like. It doesn't matter if you put it in your stereo cabinet or your refrigerator, your PS5 will get the same frequencies for CPU and GPU as any other PS5."
"The time constant, which is to say the amount of time that the CPU and GPU take to achieve a frequency that matches their activity, is critical to developers.". "It's quite short, if the game is doing power-intensive processing for a few frames, then it gets throttled. There isn't a lag where extra performance is available for several seconds or several minutes and then the system gets throttled; that isn't the world that developers want to live in - we make sure that the PS5 is very responsive to power consumed. In addition to that the developers have feedback on exactly how much power is being used by the CPU and GPU."
"Power plays a role when optimising. If you optimise and keep the power the same you see all of the benefit of the optimisation. If you optimise and increase the power then you're giving a bit of the performance back. What's most interesting here is optimisation for power consumption, if you can modify your code so that it has the same absolute performance but reduced power then that is a win"
"The CPU and GPU each have a power budget, of course the GPU power budget is the larger of the two.". "If the CPU doesn't use its power budget - for example, if it is capped at 3.5GHz - then the unused portion of the budget goes to the GPU. That's what AMD calls SmartShift. There's enough power that both CPU and GPU can potentially run at their limits of 3.5GHz and 2.23GHz, it isn't the case that the developer has to choose to run one of them slower."
"There's another phenomenon here, which is called 'race to idle'. Let's imagine we are running at 30Hz, and we're using 28 milliseconds out of our 33 millisecond budget, so the GPU is idle for five milliseconds. The power control logic will detect that low power is being consumed - after all, the GPU is not doing much for that five milliseconds - and conclude that the frequency should be increased. But that's a pointless bump in frequency."
"So, when I made the statement that the GPU will spend most of its time at or near its top frequency, that is with 'race to idle' taken out of the equation - we were looking at PlayStation 5 games in situations where the whole frame was being used productively. The same is true for the CPU, based on examination of situations where it has high utilisation throughout the frame, we have concluded that the CPU will spend most of its time at its peak frequency."
"Developers don't need to optimise in any way; if necessary, the frequency will adjust to whatever actions the CPU and GPU are performing," Mark Cerny counters. "I think you're asking what happens if there is a piece of code intentionally written so that every transistor (or the maximum number of transistors possible) in the CPU and GPU flip on every cycle. That's a pretty abstract question, games aren't anywhere near that amount of power consumption. In fact, if such a piece of code were to run on existing consoles, the power consumption would be well out of the intended operating range and it's even possible that the console would go into thermal shutdown. PS5 would handle such an unrealistic piece of code more gracefully."
"All of the game logic created for Jaguar CPUs works properly on Zen 2 CPUs, but the timing of execution of instructions can be substantially different." "We worked to AMD to customise our particular Zen 2 cores; they have modes in which they can more closely approximate Jaguar timing. We're keeping that in our back pocket, so to speak, as we proceed with the backwards compatibility work."
The proprietary SSD - how it works and what it delivers (OMITTED)
"I'm still working on games. I was a producer on Marvel's Spider-Man, Death Stranding and The Last Guardian.". "My work was on a mixture of creative and technical issues - so I pick up a lot of insight as to how systems are working in practice."
"Let's say an enemy is going to yell something as it dies, which can be issued as an urgent cut-in-front-of-everybody else request, but it's still very possible that it takes 250 milliseconds to get the data back due to all of the other game and operating requests in the pipeline.". "That 250 milliseconds is a problem because if the enemy is going to yell something as it dies, it needs to happen pretty much instantaneously; this kind of issue is what forces a lot of data into RAM on PlayStation 4 and its generation."
"Marvel's Spider-Man is a good example of the city block strategy. There are higher LOD and lower LOD representations for about a thousand blocks. If something is used a lot it's in those bundles of data a lot"
"Telemetry is vital in spotting issues with such a system, for example, telemetry showed that the city database jumped in size by a gigabyte overnight. It turned out the cause was 1.6MB of trash bags - that's not a particularly large asset - but the trash bags happened to be included in 600 city blocks.". "The Insomniac rule is that any asset used more than four hundred times is resident in RAM, so the trash bags were moved there, though clearly there's a limit to how many assets can reside in RAM"
3D Audio - the power of the Tempest engine
"If the HRTF discussion is a bit brain bending, there are a few concepts regarding sound localisation that are a bit simpler to describe, namely the ILD and the ITD.". "The ILD is the interaural level difference, which is to say the difference in the intensity of the sound reaching each ear. It varies by frequency and location; if the sound source is on my right, then my left ear will hear low frequencies less and high frequencies a whole lot less, because low frequency sounds can diffract around the head but high frequency sounds can't - they don't bend, they bounce. And so the ILD varies based on wherever the sound is coming from and the frequency of the sound, as well as the size of your head and the shape of your head. The ITD - the interaural time delay - is how long it takes for the sound to hit your right ear versus your left ear"
"Clearly, if the sound source is in front of you, the interaural time delay is zero. But if the sound source is to your right, there's a delay that is roughly the speed of sound divided by the distance between your ears. The HRTF that we use in the 3D audio algorithms encapsulates the ILD and ITD, as well as a bit more."
"The way we know whether our algorithms aren't working well is through the use of pink noise, it's similar in concept to white noise (which I think we're all familiar with). We use a sound source that is pink noise, and move it around, if we hear the flavour of that sound source changing as it moves that means there is an inaccuracy in our algorithms."
"The reason for the overwhelming HRTF processing diagram in the presentation was that I wanted to get out in front of you the complexity of what's required for accurate processing of a moving sound, and through that the rationale for why we constructed a dedicated unit for audio processing."
"Essentially, we wanted to be able to throw an indefinite amount of power at whatever issues we faced. Or to put that differently, we didn't want the cost of a particular algorithm to be the reason for choosing that algorithm, we wanted to be able to focus simply on the quality of the resulting effect."
"GPUs process hundreds or even thousands of wavefronts; the Tempest engine supports two.". "One wavefront is for the 3D audio and other system functionality, and one is for the game. Bandwidth-wise, the Tempest engine can use over 20GB/s, but we have to be a little careful because we don't want the audio to take a notch out of the graphics processing. If the audio processing uses too much bandwidth, that can have a deleterious effect if the graphics processing happens to want to saturate the system bandwidth at the same time."
"When using the Tempest engine, we DMA in the data, we process it, and we DMA it back out again; this is exactly what happens on the SPUs on PlayStation 3.". "It's a very different model from what the GPU does; the GPU has caches, which are wonderful in some ways but also can result in stalling when it is waiting for the cache line to get filled. GPUs also have stalls for other reasons, there are many stages in a GPU pipeline and each stage needs to supply the next. As a result, with the GPU if you're getting 40 per cent VALU utilisation, you're doing pretty damn well. By contrast, with the Tempest engine and its asynchronous DMA model, the target is to achieve 100 percent VALU utilisation in key pieces of code."
"We're beginning to see strategies for game audio where the type of processing depends on the particular sound source.". "For example, a 'hero sound' (by which I mean an important sound, not literally a sound made by the player hero) will get 3D object treatment for ideal locality, while the majority of the sounds in the scenes go through Ambisonics for a higher level of control of sound level. With that kind of hybrid approach, you can theoretically get the best of both worlds. And since both of these are running through the same HRTF processing at the end of the audio pipeline, both can get that same marvelous sense of presence."
How PS5's 3D audio connects to your audio hardware
"With TV speakers and stereo speakers, the user can choose to enable or disable 'TV Virtual Surround,' so the audio pipeline needs to be able to produce audio that does not have the 3D aspects that I was talking about.". "Virtual surround sound works in a sweet spot, and the user might not be seated in that sweet spot, or the user might be playing couch co-op (hard to fit both players in the sweet spot), etc. When virtual surround sound is enabled, HRTF based algorithms are used. When it is disabled, a simple downmix is performed - eg the location of a 3D sound object determines to what degree its sound comes from the left speaker and to what degree it comes from the right speaker."
"Once we're satisfied with our solution for these two channel systems we will turn to the issue of 5.1 and 7.1 systems.". "For now, though the 5.1 and 7.1 channel systems get a solution that approximates what we have now on PS4, which is to say the locations of the sound objects determine to what degree their sounds come out of each speaker. Note that 5.1 and 7.1 channel support is going to have its own special issues, in my talk I mentioned that with two channel systems the left ear can hear the right speaker and vice versa - it's even more complex with six or eight channels! Also note that if a developer is interested in using the Tempest engine power to support six or eight channels, game code is aware of the speaker setup so bespoke support is quite possible."
Source:
https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2020-playstation-5-the-mark-cerny-tech-deep-dive
Great work man, but Its really sad that we need to do to do that in the first place. DF needs more competition because its quite clear that they have been biased for almost 8 years now.
Quite despicable act by them.
megreotsugua
Banned
So for now, you'll keep your mouth shut. Can you give us an ETA when you'll start to give at least hints?
Aceofspades
Banned
Richard came to that conclusion by himself, instead of doing his job properly and ask Cerny about it directly or even talking about Sony's "mesh shaders" ... amature journalism by Rich.
Agnostic2020
Member
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Metroiddarks
Member
Colbert is that you ?
Nothing personal just I don't believe now in any insider try again in 6 or 7 years for the new consoles when I forget all the fake info
of the real insiders
megreotsugua
Banned
Can you elaborate on that at least?
jackets with pockets
Banned
Going by his previous posts I'd say a day before Sony reveals something new about the PS5.
HawarMiran
Banned
I won't give him my source and I have no wish to be vetted. All I can say is that it will be a great gen for both MS and Sony. Be hyped guys, as gamers we all win.
BluRayHiDef
Banned
Please, give me more information...now. Does the PS5 really have thermal issues? Is its performance really inconsistent and unpredictable? What does it look like?
ethomaz
Banned
You need to choose which reason you want to blame Sony lol
Both are illogical.
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ethomaz
Banned
That option only exists actually in devkits for profiling/debubing.
Final DevKit and retail devs can’t choose it.
Both CPU and GPU can max frequency at same time in most cases.
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ethomaz
Banned
That in line with what Cerny said... few percent drop in frequency.
VanSiriusGabriel
Member
The only thing this guy can give you is a brief confirmation before the next tech geek or dev says otherwise, nobody can prove anything now, everyone could be wrong or a liar.
Keep calm and don't fall for useless informations.
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megreotsugua
Banned
He has said something about PS5 being quiet. It's one of his latest posts.
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3liteDragon
Member
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Apollo Helios
Member
OMG the rumor of PS5 being in PYRAMID shape is seeming more and more true every passing day. lol
*illuminare semita
ethomaz
Banned
Sad but expected.
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megreotsugua
Banned
PS5 constant boost is really innovative and a smart design.
HawarMiran
Banned
fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuckkkk mannnnn
ethomaz
Banned
Constant boost?
Fun Fanboy
Banned
Weird. There's this thing called digital distribution. Well, PSN and all. Oof.
zeroeffect
Member
Both fanboys on both sides are fucking annoying. There's so much misinformation thrown out on both sides it's starting to get frustrating to the point I've locked all information off unless it's from people I absolutely KNOW are credible like DF.
Anyone who claims inside information here especially can
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Ptarmiganx2
Member
As soon as Sony shows Horizon Zero Dawn 2 the debate on console superiority will end. The IO throughput will show what is only possible on PlayStation 5. We will only see it with 1st party games, but that's why I'm primarily a Sony gamer in the first place. Microsoft will be hampered for 2-3 years with their homogenous platform stance. Even then, there will be noting on the platform that couldn't run on Sony's platform.
saintjules
Member
Apollo Helios
Member
Agnostic2020
Member
Ofcourse he had to delete many tweets lol
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megreotsugua
Banned
That's how I understood it.
Instead of going for a lower clock and design the thermal and power supply around the worst case scenario (100% utilization). They ran the chip on constant boost because that's where it'll stay most of the time anyway.
The worst case scenario will almost never happen anyway because of the nature games are coded.
What am I missing?
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prinz_valium
Member
This user has been removed from thread. Some of you just can’t help yourselves with the endless bait posts.
Yeah it's quite staggering how much in bed the press is with Sony.
Andodalf
Banned
Delays are very worrying. Not giving any date sucks a ton. If hardware is ready but the software isn’t, does the hardware get delayed? If we thought Sony was pushing a full PS5 reveal for the launch of these PS4 games, does this mean a delayed reveal? Maybe just launch these games as cross gen games from the getgo?
hardseppo
Member
That's very good news about TLOU2, I wouldn't want to play it on my Pro anyway... gonna wait for the PS5 patch. More time also means more polish. And this will make the wait a bit more easy.
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SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Correct. They are definitely more engaged. they are engaged on twitter writing poems, and spreading FUD on forums.
BluRayHiDef
Banned
More time for polish? I don't think that they'll be working on the game in the meanwhile, due to the virus; so the time between now and when the virus subsides won't be devoted to polishing the game.
Tiago07
Member
ethomaz
Banned
It has a base clock: 3.5Ghz and 2.23Ghz.
It decrease that base clock based in the workload.
It is the opposite of boost that increase the clock.
There is no boost feature in PS5... the clock can go over the base.
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Deeper Underground
Member
Would you seriously give it a fucking rest? Take your console warrior garbage and leave the thread if you can’t act like an adult bro.
saintjules
Member
Just narrowly escaped the push back it seems.
3liteDragon
Member
Looks
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zeroeffect
Member
I think the consoles are getting delayed. And quite frankly, you have much bigger problems to worry about if this thing continues to ravage nonstop without a break during the summer 6 months from now. The only thing government is doing right now is delaying this hoping by summer it starts to die down so we can recover and be better prepared to respond to it if it resurfaces. If it doesn't, we're potentially looking at a complete world collapse or rushed vaccines that have no been properly tested risking the population.
HawarMiran
Banned
Whennnnnnn
Story trailer incoming!!!
Tiago07
Member
I Think they used to much TERAFLOPS !
Story trailer incoming!!!
But seriously, 1.84TF (4.2TF on Pro) did this, I cant even imagine what Sony's Team can do with 10.3TF (RDNA2).
Looks so gorgeous and better than most (or all) PC titles on Ultra.
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