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Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD

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bellome

bellome

Member
Germans are rich. No surprise they are willing to spend all that money.

EU is a great deal for them.

Go ask people from other EU countries.
 
N

Negotiator

Member
Germans individually are not rich, don't confuse GDP with per capita income. Google "minijobs". Luxembourg is the most wealthy EU country.

I also wouldn't say that iPhone customers are rich. You don't need to be rich to buy a $1000 iPhone, it's not a Ferrari. There are poor people that are willing to eat pasta with tomato sauce for 2 months straight, as long as they can save enough money for the next iPhone iteration.

Personally, I'd gladly pay $599, but realistically I don't expect MSRP to exceed $499. BoM cost could reach $599 though.

The problem with PS3 is that it didn't have killer apps like Uncharted 2 and TLOU day 1. It took a long time for those games to release, not to mention the horrible OS (few features, excessive RAM allocation etc.)

I'd argue the same about Wii U. If it had Zelda BoTW day 1, history would have played out differently.

I don't expect any day 1 killer apps for the PS5 either. Good games are released mid-gen and afterwards.
 
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mckmas8808

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Negotiator said:
Germans individually are not rich, don't confuse GDP with per capita income. Google "minijobs". Luxembourg is the most wealthy EU country.

I also wouldn't say that iPhone customers are rich. You don't need to be rich to buy a $1000 iPhone, it's not a Ferrari. There are poor people that are willing to eat pasta with tomato sauce for 2 months straight, as long as they can save enough money for the next iPhone iteration.

Personally, I'd gladly pay $599, but realistically I don't expect MSRP to exceed $499. BoM cost could reach $599 though.

The problem with PS3 is that it didn't have killer apps like Uncharted 2 and TLOU day 1. It took a long time for those games to release, not to mention the horrible OS (few features, excessive RAM allocation etc.)

I'd argue the same about Wii U. If it had Zelda BoTW day 1, history would have played out differently.

I don't expect any day 1 killer apps for the PS5 either. Good games are released mid-gen and afterwards.
Click to expand...

Would you consider TLOU2, Ghost of Tsushima, and Death Stranding in pure 4K running at 60 fps on day one to be killer apps?
 
sonomamashine

sonomamashine

Member
Negotiator said:
I also wouldn't say that iPhone customers are rich. You don't need to be rich to buy a $1000 iPhone, it's not a Ferrari. There are poor people that are willing to eat pasta with tomato sauce for 2 months straight, as long as they can save enough money for the next iPhone iteration.
Click to expand...
Stupid people.
 
ResilientBanana

ResilientBanana

Member
Negotiator said:
Germans individually are not rich, don't confuse GDP with per capita income. Google "minijobs". Luxembourg is the most wealthy EU country.

I also wouldn't say that iPhone customers are rich. You don't need to be rich to buy a $1000 iPhone, it's not a Ferrari. There are poor people that are willing to eat pasta with tomato sauce for 2 months straight, as long as they can save enough money for the next iPhone iteration.

Personally, I'd gladly pay $599, but realistically I don't expect MSRP to exceed $499. BoM cost could reach $599 though.

The problem with PS3 is that it didn't have killer apps like Uncharted 2 and TLOU day 1. It took a long time for those games to release, not to mention the horrible OS (few features, excessive RAM allocation etc.)

I'd argue the same about Wii U. If it had Zelda BoTW day 1, history would have played out differently.

I don't expect any day 1 killer apps for the PS5 either. Good games are released mid-gen and afterwards.
Click to expand...
At $599 I'd be happy to not buy a console. I'll play on my PC and if Sony doesn't want me as a customer, so be it. I also will not buy a console for my kids at that price and would happily build a Raspberry PI device with them.
 
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N

Negotiator

Member
Sycomunkee said:
At $599 I'd be happy to not buy a console. I'll play on my PC and if Sony doesn't want me as a customer, so be it. I also will not buy a console for my kids at that price and would happily build a Raspberry PI device with them.
Click to expand...
Well, PCs don't offer console exclusives and the PS5 is positioned as a "premium" product (according to Sony at least), not a family/kid-friendly console (Switch is better for that).
 
ResilientBanana

ResilientBanana

Member
Negotiator said:
Well, PCs don't offer console exclusives and the PS5 is positioned as a "premium" product (according to Sony at least), not a family/kid-friendly console (Switch is better for that).
Click to expand...
I know, that's why I said Sony and not Microsoft as all Microsoft Exclusives come to the PC also.

I also agree about the switch, but Sony does have some family friendly games as well and provides more value to everyone in my house, unless they are priced too high.
 
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ZywyPL

ZywyPL

Banned
I wouldn't hope for god knows how big TF numbers, especially seeing how a 9,75TF 5700XT matches, or sometimes even surpasses a ~14TF Radeon VII, let alone Vega 64. It's still not Nvidia-level TFlops, but AMD has surely step up their GPUs efficiency by a ton with RDNA, And a V64/RVII level GPU alone is more than enough to handle games in 4K in Medium-High setting which the consoles always do (which many people here forget), and that alone halves the computing requirements vs PC's Ultra. Plus, a 36-40CU at about/less than 250mm^2 seems just about right to fit into a console APU, which usually take ~360mm^2 of total space. Also - the first generation of RDNA is still somewhat rooted in the old GCN architecture for the sake of compatibility from what I read, so my take is it's still limited to 64CUs, so the 12TF (and beyond) poll options are just a wet dreams. My guess is Sony/MS won't talk about TFlops anymore, but simply use terms like "twice as powerful" or "twice as efficient" whenever asked about power comparison with Pro/X1X.

Because at the end of the day, it's all about what the developers, aka the people who will actually program games for the hardware, actually want/need, and having a 3-4x more capable machines than what they already have (Pro/X1X) will more than likely make them happy, no matter if it won't look oh so impressive on pure paper specs. It will all come down to what the consoles are actually pushing on the screens, not what's inside them.
 
SpinningBirdKick

SpinningBirdKick

Banned
ZywyPL said:
I wouldn't hope for god knows how big TF numbers, especially seeing how a 9,75TF 5700XT matches, or sometimes even surpasses a ~14TF Radeon VII, let alone Vega 64. It's still not Nvidia-level TFlops, but AMD has surely step up their GPUs efficiency by a ton with RDNA, And a V64/RVII level GPU alone is more than enough to handle games in 4K in Medium-High setting which the consoles always do (which many people here forget), and that alone halves the computing requirements vs PC's Ultra. Plus, a 36-40CU at about/less than 250mm^2 seems just about right to fit into a console APU, which usually take ~360mm^2 of total space. Also - the first generation of RDNA is still somewhat rooted in the old GCN architecture for the sake of compatibility from what I read, so my take is it's still limited to 64CUs, so the 12TF (and beyond) poll options are just a wet dreams. My guess is Sony/MS won't talk about TFlops anymore, but simply use terms like "twice as powerful" or "twice as efficient" whenever asked about power comparison with Pro/X1X.

Because at the end of the day, it's all about what the developers, aka the people who will actually program games for the hardware, actually want/need, and having a 3-4x more capable machines than what they already have (Pro/X1X) will more than likely make them happy, no matter if it won't look oh so impressive on pure paper specs. It will all come down to what the consoles are actually pushing on the screens, not what's inside them.
Click to expand...

You know that approach isn't going to fly?

You can't fire up potential customers to expect the most powerful console and then decide it's no longer about power because things didn't play out how you expected.

Whoever has the high power card is going to play it regardless of what the opposition wants to do.
 
SonGoku

SonGoku

Member
Imtjnotu said:
Well boys. The first 7nm EUV soc has dropped.

https://www.anandtech.com/show/14645/samsung-announces-exynos-9825-first-7nm-euv-silicon-chip


Samsung has been using EUV since last year so I do not see why next gen won't roll with it as well. None of that dirty ass duv crap
Click to expand...
We knew 7nm EUV entered mass production end of Q2, not much of a surprise but nice confirmation
Negotiator said:
The problem with PS3 is that it didn't have killer apps like Uncharted 2 and TLOU day 1. It took a long time for those games to release, not to mention the horrible OS (few features, excessive RAM allocation etc.)
Click to expand...
To add to that:
It took 3 years to match the launch price of the 360
Early multi-platforms were vastly inferior
mckmas8808 said:
Would you consider TLOU2, Ghost of Tsushima, and Death Stranding in pure 4K running at 60 fps on day one to be killer apps?
Click to expand...
No
 
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Mass Shift

Mass Shift

Member
SpinningBirdKick said:
You know that approach isn't going to fly?

You can't fire up potential customers to expect the most powerful console and then decide it's no longer about power because things didn't play out how you expected.
Click to expand...

Sure they can, it's called marketing. And what else could they do, pack up and quit? Both MS and Sony are prepared for those eventualities.

Actually gamers are more prepared than their favorite console makers.

If MS eventually reveals a more powerful console than PS5, I guarantee you that the Sony faithful will pivot without skipping a beat. I'm sure they'd be upset for awhile but it would hardly be a deal breaker for them.

If it's the reverse, MS' faithful will latch onto an engineering feature of some sort that the PS5 doesn't have and turn it into an Excalibur. None will be deterred.
 
Exentryk

Exentryk

Member
David Cage from Quantic Dream talks about next gen consoles:

Cage admitted that new technology does have a lot of strengths such as “a significant improvement in CPU power, which will mean significant improvements in physics and AI. GPU improvement should be enough to get Ray Tracing in Full HD or Full 4K resolution (without Ray Tracing).” Despite how great these features sound, David Cage was sure to state that “All in all, we believe that there will be serious improvements in next-gen games, but maybe not the ones that are currently promoted the most.”
Two of the biggest things that David Cage says fans currently seem to be unaware of is how “all parameters are linked” for the aforementioned improvements and how “improving one part of the hardware only makes sense if all is proportionally accelerated to avoid bottlenecks.” As an example, Cage discussed the 8K support that is being teased by companies like Microsoft. “You can have 8K content only if you have an 8K screen. You can do 8K, but probably not 8K AND Ray Tracing. If you have 8K content, the volume of your assets will grow very significantly, their size in memory and on your hard drive too. You will also need to load them very quickly from your storage device to the memory, so this pipeline will also need to be proportionally faster.”

While 8K sounds great on paper, Cage demonstrated to DualShockers how these seemingly simple improvements can snowball into a whole suite of new problems that need solutions. Quantic Dream has even already analyzed how the PS5 and Project Scarlett will likely be utilized by developers. “Our current analysis is that few studios will go for 8K because it will necessitate too many compromises on the overall quality of the game. Ray Tracing is going to be so costly that we will probably only see Full HD titles using it (there is a direct connection between resolution, Ray Tracing and performances), at least in the first generation of titles,” he said.
Click to expand...
 
TLZ

TLZ

Banned
You give me physical PS1, PS2, PS3, PS4 BC, with automatic upres to 1080p/4k with AA on system level creating a clean, clear image (like those PC emulators do), and I'll throw 600 euros (au$1000) at you.

Other than that, no.
 
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V4skunk

V4skunk

Banned
xool said:
Ha! Don't live in US. However £ will have crashed post-Brexit so I'll probably be paying £999 or someting ..
Click to expand...
How will the £ crash? Britain is a net contributor and the EU's largest export market in the world.
If the £ does crash the Euro will be annihilated.
 
GermanZepp

GermanZepp

Member
Can ray tracing be "partially" applied in (for example) a level? Like puntual objects that developers want to highlight? OR, can a raytraced scenery have objects like deactivated that do not interact?
 
Gamernyc78

Gamernyc78

Banned
mckmas8808 said:
That's a bit much.
Click to expand...

Good luck selling those PS5s to ppl in the Bronx with some families in certain districts barely making 20,000 a year. Overall avg income is probably around 37, 000 a year in tht borough of 1.5 million. Of course there are even poorer cities and countries but you get the point. PS5 needs to be priced well enough. I wouldn't mind paying 600 if it was worth it (I bought a ps3 fat day 1 and I thought it was worth it) but I know thts in my means but not in others.
 
mckmas8808

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
GermanZepp said:
Can ray tracing be "partially" applied in (for example) a level? Like puntual objects that developers want to highlight? OR, can a raytraced scenery have objects like deactivated that do not interact?
Click to expand...

Yes devs certainly can do this.
 
TeamGhobad

TeamGhobad

Banned
have i been out of the loop? when did sony announce their ps5 announcement conference? also specs wont be finalized in nov...
 
TeamGhobad

TeamGhobad

Banned
Lone Wolf said:
If these consoles are launching next November, wouldn’t the specs have to be pretty much finalized by now?
Click to expand...

not according to albert penello. he said SoC is not finalized until last few months. i dunno. maybe we are getting soft reveal. they might show the box and some games and features but they won't reveal clocks.
 
bitbydeath

bitbydeath

Member
Lone Wolf said:
If these consoles are launching next November, wouldn’t the specs have to be pretty much finalized by now?
Click to expand...

Finalized doesn’t mean it exists yet.
They have specs they know they can achieve with the forecasted hardware.

Most recent example would be Project Scorpio aka the X1 being announced as a 6TF machine a year and a half before release.
 
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