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[Doncabesa]

Sorry bud, it's all been exposed already.

I suggest you come back with an alt if you want anyone to engage in you in a serious manner.

Taking out of context picture can paint whatever you want it to. I'm excited for next-gen, and "that awful site" is Era, which can be a truly awful site. I'm excited for next-gen, more so after today's tech demo.

 

[RasAlGhoul]

Wow URE5 Demo looks great, next-Gen is here. Oh yes you Though I was talking about the ps5 demo?

NOPE WE HAVE SEEN THIS ALREADY and it's called Hell Blade 2 demo.

I certainly saw a 24fps movie about Hell Blade 2.

 

[kensama]

What this tweet is related to please?

 

[FranXico]

Watching the DF video now. I hate that SSD hater Alex is in this. Where the fuck is richard.

As if people don't know Unreal scales up or down to run on anything. "We do know it scales with the GPU!!" Sure
Thank god for John, he got it all.

 

[ZeroFool]

I still have remain reserved as the last tech demo with the Ballon has still not been fully shown in current gen actual games, many have been close or in certain aspects better. HZD probably the nearest in an open world aspect.

However, what is shown in the demo with master magicians will be achieved obviously. This does not seem to be a true open world, but that is where SSD tech will come into play.

Verdict: cautiously giddy with joy. My 1/2 cents.

 

[SlimySnake]

I certainly saw a 24fps movie about Hell Blade 2.

i expect sony exclusives to look as good if not better than the hellblade 2 demo.

the unreal engine rebirth demo from last year looked just as good and it was running on a 1080 ti. the ps5 is just as powerful as a 1080ti.

 

[ethomaz]

39GB. i remember sitting there for like 45 minutes while it copied 39GB from disk to HDD. so around 25%.

Thanks.

It should variate from game to game but that gives us an ideia.

So a typical PS4 game on PS5 should have around 30GB.
Let say the assets quality are increased that means (IMO) games will trend in 40-50GB on PS5... not too far from what we saw with PS4.

Perhaps around 20 games to fill up that 825GB... way more if most of these games are AA or indies (< 20GB).

 

[Andodalf]

I certainly saw a 24fps movie about Hell Blade 2.

21:9 24fps 4K is more pixels per second than 1440p 30

 

[rntongo]

Here is the thing about MSFT,...

You can get amazing cinematic looking games on PS4PRo like uncharted, horizon dawn, god of war, shadow of colossus etc on 4.2 TFLOPS PS4Pro, but I have yet to see games of that caliber and nature on Xbone X 6 TFLOP machine which is technically speaking, superior to PS4Pro.

MSFT needs to learn how to utilize its hardware better by:

-Good artistic/design/cinematic motion-animations direction
-Efficient programming

With the exception of some games, MSFT game designs have this silhouette appearance of ugliness, rigidness, and bad color. In other words, Sony does MORE with LESS, and MSFT does LESS with MORE. Get your shit together MSFT.
Another problem is that the inherently weak Xbone console is still shackling Xbone X and XsX development as we speak based on what MSFT has revealed so far. The technically superior vanilla PS4 without a doubt gave Sony the momentum it needed to design games of this caliber.

Kill and cannabilize the Xbone MSFT

By the looks of things it may get worse with the PS5. The PS5 is unencumbered by multiple SKUs and the SSD is going to make it extremely easy to develop games.

 

[Thirty7ven]

As if people don't know Unreal scales up or down to run on anything. "We do know it scales with the GPU!!" Sure
Thank god for John, he got it all.

You could see the light fading from his eyes. What a dumbass. Could’ve saved himself the stutter if only he had stuck to being professional about his job.

I would say this will have humbled him but I’m sure it won’t take long.

 

[megreotsugua]

Watching the DF video now. I hate that SSD hater Alex is in this. Where the fuck is richard.

I can't stand him either. I only watched it because of John.

 

[martino]

About rdna 2 :
Cerny do a presentation,talk about roadmap malleable and he got 2 features this time and then talks about 2 features.
With the context there is not a lot of debate to have.

 

[SlimySnake]

As if people don't know Unreal scales up or down to run on anything. "We do know it scales with the GPU!!" Sure
Thank god for John, he got it all.

i like Richard and John's dynamic a lot better.

 

[DrDamn]

Lol who gives a fuck if that was 4k or not. Some of you are crazy man.

Amen. When it comes to the point that you have to be told whether it's 4K or not and DF themselves admit the 4K PNGs they are provided with defy pixel counting then it really doesn't matter. It doesn't matter how an image is produced, whether it is native or not, all that matters is the end result and the performance.

 

[Ascend]

People already dismissing the fact that the PS5 was picked for a reason?

The reason is the close partnership between Epic and Sony.

 

[FranXico]

i like Richard and John's dynamic a lot better.

Best content of DF in ages has been DF Retro in my opinion. Love John's passion.

 

[IntentionalPun]

Thanks.

It should variate from game to game but that gives us an ideia.

So a typical PS4 game on PS5 should have around 30GB.
Let say the assets quality are increased that means (IMO) games will trend in 40-50GB on PS5... not too far from what we saw with PS4.

Perhaps around 20 games to fill up that 825GB... way more if most of these games are AA or indies (< 20GB).

You are only expecting a 50% increase in assets?

 

[megreotsugua]

 

[Night.Ninja]

Looks amazing, next gen will be great.

So is this the high end of the engine?

 

[SlimySnake]

Thanks.

It should variate from game to game but that gives us an ideia.

So a typical PS4 game on PS5 should have around 30GB.
Let say the assets quality are increased that means (IMO) games will trend in 40-50GB on PS5... not too far from what we saw with PS4.

Perhaps around 20 games to fill up that 825GB... way more if most of these games are AA or indies (< 20GB).

the PS5 has UHD which stores up to 100gb. i expect most games to hit that with these megascans from quixel.

some more ambitious games like GTA6 or RDR3 or TLOU3 will be around 200GB and come on two disks.

 

[Kazekage1981]

By the looks of things it may get worse with the PS5. The PS5 is unencumbered by multiple SKUs and the SSD is going to make it extremely easy to develop games.

-I will add further insult to the injury that Sony has clearly stated that they want to PS4 owners to transition to PS5 as easily as possible (I dont know how they are going to do that).

-the Xbone S has Ultra-Blu Ray 4k Drive, which prolongs the life of Xbone even further

-As you stated, Lockhart will further confuse consumers to distinguish between 4TFLOP 4k console to a 6 TFLOP 4K 2017 Xbone X.

Its like MSFT is trying to throw a fishnet and getting many consumers as possible to buy into: Xbone S, Xbone X, Lockhart, XsX, PC. I guess this is good business wise?! I cant tell.

 

[Andodalf]

Looks amazing, next gen will be great.

So is this the high end of the engine?

In terms of environments this is probably rather high end, but character rendering can be pushed further for sure

 

[ethomaz]

You are only expecting a 50% increase in assets?

Do you expect more? BTW my number is on average... there will be games over 50GB for sure like there are games below 10GB.

 

[BadBreathOfTheWild]

I wonder how many GB/s of studio quality assets and point cloud data where being decompressed into RAM during the flying sequence on that UE5 demo? Is 8-9GB/s overkill and overspend? Or does that enable something? If it was comfortably under 2.4GB/s, will it stay that way?
EPIC Games mentioned streaming a lot, and the GPU didn't seem bothered by the insane triangle counts or lighting if that was a direct HDMI recording as they said.

I think the paradigm is going to change, and Cerny through his recent technical consultancy in big open-world games may have caught on early.

 

[Thirty7ven]

The reason is the close partnership between Epic and Sony.

Sure.

 

[rntongo]

I agree. This is proof the quick SSD is a huge factor. The question now is weather or not XSX will be able to pull this off. I think it will, but let's drop this whole SSD doesn't improve image fidelity argument.

The thing the XSX has is SFS. Apple has something similar called sparse textures for their GPU and unless Sony has something similar, the XSX will be able to stream in higher quality textures. It's crazy because the PS5 Unreal 5 demo is out of this world, but the PS5 is still loading several mips into RAM including those that are not needed. The advantage of ease of development goes to the PS5 though. Devs would have to do more work on the XSX. But basically there's a lot more to learn.

 

[IntentionalPun]

Do you expect more? BTW my number is on average... there will be games over 50GB for sure like there are games below 10GB.

If we are expecting detail to be multiplied I'd expect file sizes to be close to that same multiplier.

You don't need an SSD 100 times faster than last gen to stream ~50% more assets.

 

[Metroiddarks]

Here is the thing about MSFT,...

You can get amazing cinematic looking games on PS4PRo like uncharted, horizon dawn, god of war, shadow of colossus etc on 4.2 TFLOPS PS4Pro, but I have yet to see games of that caliber and nature on Xbone X 6 TFLOP machine which is technically speaking, superior to PS4Pro.

MSFT needs to learn how to utilize its hardware better by:

-Good artistic/design/cinematic motion-animations direction
-Efficient programming

With the exception of some games, MSFT game designs have this silhouette appearance of ugliness, rigidness, and bad color. In other words, Sony does MORE with LESS, and MSFT does LESS with MORE. Get your shit together MSFT.
Another problem is that the inherently weak Xbone console is still shackling Xbone X and XsX development as we speak based on what MSFT has revealed so far. The technically superior vanilla PS4 without a doubt gave Sony the momentum it needed to design games of this caliber.

Kill and cannabilize the Xbone MSFT

In my opinion bot sides are doing its best I am referring to the devs and artists but the thing is here both companies work with different objectives:

MS:

-Make our games so scalable as we can because the same game should be run in a pc and all the xbox consoles since xbox one.

PS5:


-Make our game in the way our dev can create a solution doesn't matter how specific has to be so in this way our artists will be able to reach theire
vision dont worry now for a possible future port to PC.

So this cause things like BC in Xbox is much complete compare that Sony but instead your solutions are not specific or exotics, yes both company could in
theory have its game accomplishing both if they have unlimited time and money but that is not gonna happens.

Also Xbox just cannot say the Xbox one is not compatible for the next two years just like that and you know it, the only thing worst than never make a promisse is to break one already made.

 

[ethomaz]

If we are expecting detail to be multiplied I'd expect file sizes to be close to that same multiplier.

You don't need an SSD 100 times faster than last gen to stream ~50% more assets.

But not all asset is streamed from game data last gen... just a small part per level/scene.

50% game size doesn't mean only 50% more assets being streamed from SSD to RAM.

 

[SlimySnake]

xbox will also be available at the end of the year. lets not start sucking each others dicks just yet.

 

[rntongo]

-I will add insult to the injury that Sony has clearly stated that they want to PS4 owners to transition to PS5 as easily as possible (I dont know how they are going to do that).

-the Xbone S has Ultra-Blu Ray 4k Drive, which prolongs the life of Xbone even further

-As you stated, Lockhart will further confuse consumers to distinguish between 4TFLOP 4k console to a 6 TFLOP 4K 2017 Xbone X.

Its like MSFT is trying to throw a fishnet and getting many consumers as possible to buy into: Xbone S, Xbone X, Lockhart, XsX, PC. I guess this is good business wise?! I cant tell.

Yeah. Even their SSD speed needs to be called into question. The BOM prices coming out point to them overpaying for an inferior product. The Phison E19 controller can support upto 3.7GB/s. It's crazy that they went with 2.4GB/s and not something like 3.2GB/s while still paying a lot of money. Unless Bloomberg got the figures so wrong and their paying ~$100 for the SSD and not closer to ~$150.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

 

[Mr Moose]

21:9 24fps 4K is more pixels per second than 1440p 30

3840 x 1608, Xbox's The Order: 1886.

 

[IntentionalPun]

But not all asset is streamed from game data last gen... just a small part per level/scene.

That's not true... "levels" loaded into memory are a thing of the past for the most part. That's how you can drive around fake los angeles in GTA V on an Xbox 360 and it's also how they pulled off the level of detail in this UE demo today.

You load what the player can see and "reach" before your next stream of assets... obviously also have shared assets that stay in memory longer, but as you move around most games this gen significant portions of memory are being replaced.

And regardless we are talking about next-gen; if gigabytes of models and textures are being streamed in a matter of seconds as Sweeeny said... well.. that's GB's for those seconds of gameplay..

 

[Kazekage1981]

I guess with MSFT it really is about ecosystem isn't it? If you get: Xbone S, Xbone X, Lockhart, XsX, PC/laptop/tablet Windows they continue to make money even if Sony PlayStation has more consoles sold?! Im starting to realize certain things as I think through this..

 

[Andodalf]

3840 x 1608, Xbox's The Order: 1886.

Yeah very similar in their use of 21:9, but there is a key distinction in one having cinema aspect ratio for a cutscene va gameplay. Many games have used cinematic aspect ratios in games for cutscenes. And the Hellbade trailer is absolutely a cutscene and not normal gameplay

 

[husomc]

Here is the thing, are you really gonna look to the left and look to the right, behind and above admiring the texture work and detail and the billions of triangles? Most people are just gonna go forward and get a glimpse and appreciate it from that perspective. Hence, in my opinion those billions of triangles are being wasted, and in my opinion, the developer should reduce the billions of triangles to increase:

Resolution and frame rate

because there is a way for those side rocks/walls to have the same appearance without needing so many triangles.

The whole point of them showcasing the billions of triangles is to say that having those billions are not taxing on the system coz they now have a workaround.

 

[Vae_Victis]

You don't need an SSD 100 times faster than last gen to stream ~50% more assets.

That's not the point... The difference in asset transfer speed here makes it possible to do the whole loading into RAM in a completely different way (mostly on the fly, compared to mostly beforehand last gen).

You don't need a 100 times faster SSD because the textures became 100 times larger, but because you load them in the time you turn the camera around rather than on the loading screen at the start of the level.

 

[IntentionalPun]

That's not the point... The difference in asset transfer speed here makes it possible to do the whole loading into RAM in a completely different way (mostly on the fly, compared to mostly beforehand last gen).

You don't need a 100 times faster SSD because the textures became 100 times larger, but because you load them in the time you turn the camera around rather than on the loading screen at the start of the level.

Without massively increasing detail... all you've done in the scenario you describe is eliminate load times... and remove the need for RAM.... but.. we've likely doubled usable RAM this gen.. why again?

And what bizarro world do you guys live in where you've missed that the PS5 will be capable of massively increasing DETAIL because the PS5 can stream gigabytes of assets constantly?

"That's not the point"? WHAT?

 

[Thirty7ven]

That's not true... "levels" loaded into memory are a thing of the past for the most part. That's how you can drive around fake los angeles in GTA V on an Xbox 360 and it's also how they pulled off the level of detail in this UE demo today.

You load what the player can see and "reach" before your next stream of assets... obviously also have shared assets that stay in memory longer, but as you move around most games this gen significant portions of memory are being replaced.

And regardless we are talking about next-gen; if gigabytes of models and textures are being streamed in a matter of seconds as Sweeeny said... well.. that's GB's for those seconds of gameplay..

Really trying to understand where you’re going with this but it becomes harder and harder. Is the crux of your thesis that this won’t matter because there won’t be enough storage?

Quite the cliffhanger... keep holding on to that branch.

Here’s an interesting bit. Gears of War 4 is 130gb, Gears of War 5 is 75Gb.

One of them was more varied and better looking.

 

[megreotsugua]

I remember the github truthers were asking for an apology when the PS5 specs was revealed.

How about the SSD truthers. Can we now also ask for an apology?

jk of course

 

[IntentionalPun]

Really trying to understand where you’re going with this but it becomes harder and harder. Is the crux of your thesis that this won’t matter because there won’t be enough storage?

Quite the cliffhanger...

Yes I'm wondering if storage becomes the bottleneck that makes taking advantage of the I/O speed for LOD difficult.

 

[ethomaz]

That's not true... "levels" loaded into memory are a thing of the past for the most part. That's how you can drive around fake los angeles in GTA V on an Xbox 360 and it's also how they pulled off the level of detail in this UE demo today.

You load what the player can see and "reach" before your next stream of assets... obviously also have shared assets that stay in memory longer, but as you move around most games this gen significant portions of memory are being replaced.

And regardless we are talking about next-gen; if gigabytes of models and textures are being streamed in a matter of seconds as Sweeeny said... well.. that's GB's for those seconds of gameplay..

The biggest change in that regards in next-gen is not the amount of data you have on RAM... in that part you just have about 2x more data (8GB to 16GB) but how you can have different and unique assets in the RAM.
Before you need to rely in a lot of duplicated textures and assets on RAM to stream the minimum from HDD.
Now you can have you RAM being updated constantly with GB of assets per second.

So you increase graphic fidelity and details.

That doesn't mean the game assets size will increase in the same proportion... I don't expect games with over 100GB of data next-gen for example (unless there is a ton of DLCs/patches).

 

[IntentionalPun]

The biggest change in that regards in next-gen is not the amount of data you have on RAM... in that part you just have about 2x more data (8GB to 16GB) but how you can have different and unique assets in the RAM.
Before you need to rely in a lot of duplicated textures and assets on RAM to stream the minimum from HDD.
Now you can have you RAM being updated constantly with GB of assets per second.

So you increase graphic fidelity and details.

That doesn't mean the game assets size will increase in the same proportion... I don't expect games with over 100GB of data next-gen for example (unless there is a ton of DLCs/patches).

I really don't know why you are explaining back to me what I've already said lol

My point is "GB of assets per second"...

If we aren't talking about GBs of variety, there's no need to stream that data in and out of memory "per second"... the very concept of increasing detail to the point of needing to pull data in and out of memory that fast DIRECTLY correlates to a SIMILAR increase in file size. I get that a texture or model can be re-used; but again.. back to "streaming GB's of data per second"...

 

[Thirty7ven]

Yes I'm wondering if storage becomes the bottleneck that makes taking advantage of the I/O speed for LOD difficult.

If compression is improved by say 25%, elimination of duplicate data reducing 25% of install size, and game sizes grow by 50% on average for big games, this doesn’t seem like this big problem you’re making out to be. Ray traced reflections and global illumination also help saving data.

It would be such an obvious fuck up don’t you think? The bottleneck will be budget and the biggest bottleneck will be artistry.

You will still see re-use of assets, it’s just that they won’t be duplicated in storage.

 

[ethomaz]

I really don't know why you are explaining back to me what I've already said lol

My point is "GB of assets per second"...

If we aren't talking about GBs of variety, there's no need to stream that data in and out of memory "per second"... the very concept of increasing detail to the point of needing to pull data in and out of memory that fast DIRECTLY correlates to a SIMILAR increase in file size. I get that a texture or model can be re-used; but again.. back to "streaming GB's of data per second"...

I forgot the compression data that can decrease a lot the game size on disc too.
I'm not seeing that increase in storage space for games like you do... just that.
With non-duplicated data and high compression level you will probably have games with the same size or even slower using high quality and unique assets.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

Maybe that's the stream they r analysing cause he explicitly said running 4k in the stream.

Not to mention that 8K might be an overkill for early next gen, probably better for mid-gen PS5 Pro.

The insane ease of development for PS5 is what will make it easy for Sony to secure more and more exclusives, or timed exclusives until they get the extra work of optimization done on other less capable platforms.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

The shorter version that highlights some of the most important stuff covered in the reveal so far:

 

[B_Boss]

PS2 slim has a power brick?

I am judging the first versions. I never owned a slim. Seems as though initial versions (launch) had power cables and that’s it.

 

[BGs]

This should be the standard cross-platform quality foundation on PS5.