Omega Supreme Holopsicon
Member
What do you mean fake? It is conceivable, if the xbox series x is using a hardware decompressor and the pc isn't there could be at least a 3+ second difference easy.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
- Status
What do you mean fake? It is conceivable, if the xbox series x is using a hardware decompressor and the pc isn't there could be at least a 3+ second difference easy.
Exodia
Banned
Because people would rather not look at the actual facts but to listen to random youtubers.
"The final component in the triumvirate is an extension to DirectX - DirectStorage - a necessary upgrade bearing in mind that existing file I/O protocols are knocking on for 30 years old, and in their current form would require two Zen CPU cores simply to cover the overhead, which DirectStorage reduces to just one tenth of single core.
"Plus it has other benefits," enthuses Andrew Goossen. "It's less latent and it saves a ton of CPU. With the best competitive solution, we found doing decompression software to match the SSD rate would have consumed three Zen 2 CPU cores. When you add in the IO CPU overhead, that's another two cores. So the resulting workload would have completely consumed five Zen 2 CPU cores when now it only takes a tenth of a CPU core. So in other words, to equal the performance of a Series X at its full IO rate, you would need to build a PC with 13 Zen 2 cores. That's seven cores dedicated for the game: one for Windows and shell and five for the IO and decompression overhead.""
Inside Xbox Series X: the full specs
This is it. After months of teaser trailers, blog posts and even the occasional leak, we can finally reveal firm, hard …
www.eurogamer.net
Last edited:
vpance
Member
I wouldn’t doubt that’s why they upped the clocks a bit compared to PS5. FWIW Goosen said in the EG article that most devs making launch titles will choose to go 3.8GHz SMT disabled because their engines aren’t making good use of all threads yet.
TLZ
Banned
That's Colt for you. Better ignore.
TLZ
Banned
Maybe they're just as cringey as them.
Exodia
Banned
I'm confused what exactly are you talking about?
There is probably NO GAME. ZERO. ZIP. Nada. 0. Nil. Where the difference between a sata sdd and a nvme is more than ~1 second. You will find it hard to find one. There might be outliers but definitely not 2x faster.
Then i posted video of a sata sdd loading SOD2 in 22 seconds on PC. Based on results from every single other game.
A nvme ssd would load the game in 21.5 secs on PC. Meaning its impossible for that twitter video to be real.
This is basic math and deduction...
Last edited:
bitbydeath
Gold Member
TLZ
Banned
You seriously prefer people who talk a lot of shit and do very little?
Omega Supreme Holopsicon
Member
Oh, I thought you meant that xbox series didn't load faster. What you meant was that the twitter faked the speed of his sata drive.
ZehDon
Member
One of the benefits Microsoft brings to the table with their software solution approach - this stuff gets informed by Microsoft's long-term work with all forms of data storage - file repositories, file streaming, data lakes, data warehouses, etc. This will also have impacts in the PC space, due to Windows adopting some of these same I/O protocol improvements. It's real computer science when you get down to that level - and it's really quite interesting.Because people would rather not look at the actual facts but to listen to random youtubers.
"The final component in the triumvirate is an extension to DirectX - DirectStorage - a necessary upgrade bearing in mind that existing file I/O protocols are knocking on for 30 years old, and in their current form would require two Zen CPU cores simply to cover the overhead, which DirectStorage reduces to just one tenth of single core."Plus it has other benefits," enthuses Andrew Goossen. "It's less latent and it saves a ton of CPU. With the best competitive solution, we found doing decompression software to match the SSD rate would have consumed three Zen 2 CPU cores. When you add in the IO CPU overhead, that's another two cores. So the resulting workload would have completely consumed five Zen 2 CPU cores when now it only takes a tenth of a CPU core. So in other words, to equal the performance of a Series X at its full IO rate, you would need to build a PC with 13 Zen 2 cores. That's seven cores dedicated for the game: one for Windows and shell and five for the IO and decompression overhead.""Inside Xbox Series X: the full specs
This is it. After months of teaser trailers, blog posts and even the occasional leak, we can finally reveal firm, hard …
With that said, Sony's approach still has oodles of merit - there's only so much software can improve throughput if the hardware just isn't there to be used. It's hard to cut through the PR FUD around Sony's "mythical" SSD, so I'll wait for the real world results before I put the crown on Cerny's head.
CPU's were anaemic last generation, so freeing up as much as possible gives games the most possible resources, without limiting IO throughput - be it through hardware, software or a combination.
TLZ
Banned
Last edited:
TLZ
Banned
As long as they're not pigeons
Neo Blaster
Member
Don't underestimate Sony's first party studios, Guerrilla delivered quite a next gen looker with Killzone: Shadow Fall right at the beginning.
Epic Clarifies An Important Question Between Xbox Series X And PS5
Sony's PS5 gained some attention from an Unreal Engine 5 demo earlier in the week, and now Epic has clarified some confusion about the capabilities of Microsoft's Xbox Series X and Sony's machine.www.forbes.com
i think he is right and we will not get a “proper” next gen games until 2021
Last edited:
Clintizzle
Lord of Edge.
I mean the only problem with the software closing the gap argument is that it doesnt make much sense imo since Sony more than likely will be improving things on the software side also.
Last edited:
Shmunter
Member
Interesting, it’s clear decompression is hardware bases, but seemingly the i/o is still cpu based just rewritten for better efficiency? That’s a massive efficiency gain from a software rewrite, but it’s directly from MS so we have to take it as stated.Because people would rather not look at the actual facts but to listen to random youtubers.
"The final component in the triumvirate is an extension to DirectX - DirectStorage - a necessary upgrade bearing in mind that existing file I/O protocols are knocking on for 30 years old, and in their current form would require two Zen CPU cores simply to cover the overhead, which DirectStorage reduces to just one tenth of single core."Plus it has other benefits," enthuses Andrew Goossen. "It's less latent and it saves a ton of CPU. With the best competitive solution, we found doing decompression software to match the SSD rate would have consumed three Zen 2 CPU cores. When you add in the IO CPU overhead, that's another two cores. So the resulting workload would have completely consumed five Zen 2 CPU cores when now it only takes a tenth of a CPU core. So in other words, to equal the performance of a Series X at its full IO rate, you would need to build a PC with 13 Zen 2 cores. That's seven cores dedicated for the game: one for Windows and shell and five for the IO and decompression overhead.""Inside Xbox Series X: the full specs
This is it. After months of teaser trailers, blog posts and even the occasional leak, we can finally reveal firm, hard …
NX gamer did mention storage being optimised comparing it to mantle and Vulcan efficiency gains.
Curious if the efficiency is gained from the closed box or if can be bought to pc to mitigate a 13 zen 2 core requirement equivalence on there.
3liteDragon
Member
Jeff Grubb said Microsoft’s planning to hold an event on June 9th or 10th and he says it’s supposed to give us a closer look at the Xbox Series X, with a chance of Lockhart also being revealed at the same event. I don’t think June 2nd is Xbox-related, might have something to do with a game reveal maybe.Providing this is accurate MS’s next showing will be Lockhart based. (June 2)
MasterCornholio
Member
I think what's happening is due to how inefficient the software is it's causing bottlenecks in Microsoft's I/O solution. So while the improvements to the software can't be used to close the physical hardware gap, it will allow the I/O system to hit those advertised values more often.
I hope it is a new Mad Max game. I really enjoyed the first one I just hope if they do a new one it expands the main story missions. The first one got a little samey.
bitbydeath
Gold Member
Mel Gibson Movie -> Passion of Christ -> Kojima -> Silent Hill!
Metroiddarks
Member
The problem is even when the XSX has many good things to swank in some way his fans found a way to almost everytime than one of them say something about his console do one this 2 things;
1)Say the other console shit just because he read somewhere without understand It why, for example "Xbox has 52 CUs and PS5 only 36 CUs than means mores than 40% in performance"
2) Exaggerate to limits close to be fanboy for example "SFS will improve until 3 time the use of memory compare to PS5"
So if the people who represent that company encourage this kind of behaviour just make it worse with the pass of the time
Last edited:
saintjules
Member
Last edited:
Shmunter
Member
To be fair Sony has addressed their solution in a technical manner, backed by devs and now Epic vs a single sentence quote by Eurogamer on the i/o software efficiency. Interesting nevertheless.
3liteDragon
Member
Link?Guess tomorrow might help pass the time.
Not E3: When to expect Sony’s and Microsoft’s next big summer events
We are not getting an E3 in 2020. Instead, we are getting an endless march of loosely affilliated announcements. But what about Sony and Microsoft?
venturebeat.com
saintjules
Member
Oh duh, my bad. Guess I overlooked that quote.Not E3: When to expect Sony’s and Microsoft’s next big summer events
We are not getting an E3 in 2020. Instead, we are getting an endless march of loosely affilliated announcements. But what about Sony and Microsoft?
3liteDragon
Member
Well if the PlayStation event's happening early-June, I don't think they would choose to reveal Silent Hill on June 2nd.
Unless, the rumored date change is true and the PS event is happening on Tuesday, June 2nd.
Last edited:
Bo_Hazem
Banned
He's like Crapgamer, now Crapgamer uses the same disgusting click-baity shit as a Sony fan recently as he's been a notorious xbox fan mostly with his avatar having Gears tattoo. They all share this same mindset of BS and FUD of inflated titles with zero substance.
ZehDon
Member
If Sony are needing to offload their I/O work to a separate piece of hardware in order to save CPU resources - which I believe Cerny covered in his talk - this would suggest any work they've done in addressing I/O at a purely software level isn't as dramatic as the improvements Microsoft have made with their DirectStorage I/O protocol. In manufacturing terms, you don't build bespoke hardware to handle I/O if the performance hit is negligible in the first place. Sony needed to offload that load, and it appears Microsoft didn't.
To put an even finer point on it: Microsoft are one of the global leaders in this field, with world renowned software engineers that create the standards and protocols other companies then use. From my perspective, it seems pretty feasible to me that Microsoft, with decades of experience in the deepest scientific recesses of file management, have improved upon their 30 year old I/O protocols in the latest release of their multi-platform API quite dramatically. Don't take that as a slight - Sony appear to have built a very impressive piece of hardware - it's very fast storage, engineered from a purely nuts-and-bolts level to be as fast as it possibly can be. On the flipside, Microsoft appear to have written very impressive new I/O protocols - it allows slower storage devices to do things faster by the virtue of efficiency, drawn from real-world data performance. Both are interesting solutions, and I'm not ready to call one superior to the other.
sendit
Member
Here is your differentiator.
For the video you posted.
The user is using the following CPU: AMD FX 6300 6 core
For the twitter post:
The user states he is using the following CPU: Ryzen 2600
Ryzen is a stronger processor. One thing that can bottleneck a SSD on the PC is the CPU. The PS5 eliminates/reduces these bottlenecks (and to a lesser extent, the XSX as well).
Last edited:
Sinthor
Gold Member
Providing this is accurate MS’s next showing will be Lockhart based. (June 2)
No, I seriously doubt that. They have "X-Boxing Day" the following week which would be a better time for a hardware reveal. I think this is a case of Microsoft fans seeing what they want to see. (Not saying YOU, just in general). Mel Gibson has been in OVER FORTY movies, with a wealth of subjects to choose from. People gravitate towards Braveheart if they want to see a series S. Others may think it's Mad Max. Still others think a war based game due to Hacksaw Ridge and We Were Soldiers.....
HAL-01
Member
I really hope that MS just drops Lockhart altogether. Concerns about a lesser system bottlenecking multiplats aside, it would really hurt MS to just have 4 consoles with extremely similar names and branding.
Imagine going to the store and seeing Xbox Series X, Xbox One S, Xbox One X, Xbox Series S, one next to the other
Omega Supreme Holopsicon
Member
Could be we don't know how difficult developing such software would be. But it is also possible that sony not only wanted reduced cpu overhead but even greater reduction of latency than microsoft achieved. An asic will run circles around a cpu in terms of speed.
Hobbygaming
has been asked to post in 'Grounded' mode.
Even less differences than a Pro and a Xbox One X is nothingVery interesting comment by Matt at era for those who think devs won’t use the extra 2TF on XSX
Matt: “
The graphic differences in general won't be imperceptible. They will exist, and most people will be able to see them. They will just be more modest than the difference between the PS4 and One, or the Pro and the X.
If someone wants to buy the console with the strongest GPU and CPU, well that choice is very clear...”
Shmunter
Member
Yes it all could be true what you say. However Sony not being able to go to the metal with their software on their own hardware can be dismissed immediately.
The more likely scenario is due to the unprecedented I/o throughput sony is seeking, the cpu load with highly optimised software was still too much to give up, hence dedicated hardware. Microsoft with the more conservative I/o can possibly wear it
Of course this could be another ‘we’re not about to give up 30% performance’ all over again. The efficiency MS is claiming through software is eyebrow raising.
Do not waste time.
They already proved that he was wrong, despite belching "fact", then he changed the subject to the FUD already 4 months old:
"hurrrr durrr PS5 super heats, SSD on fire without cooler, PS5 nuclear waste that will set fire to the planet "
Last edited:
I would love another mad max game the first was one of my favorite sleeper games. I did not think I would like it but dam it was a blast.
3liteDragon
Member
With rumors going around recently saying Lockhart's reached the take-home stage, it's probably happening at this point.
Last edited:
Bo_Hazem
Banned
I'm with you in that boat. I guess they've asked for a preview of 1st party games then felt filthy in comparison with their cross-gen crap
Omega Supreme Holopsicon
Member
I think not only that. While traditionally designed games might perform slightly better on xbox series x, there is a good chance that games done under new paradigms such as nanite might actually perform better on ps5.
HAL-01
Member
A shame, there'll be so many little Tims upset because their dad bought the wrong "Xbox S" for christmas
saintjules
Member
Hoping for something soon. Just gotta take these guys with grains. Remember that Guy Patrick Klepek? Said February lol.
3liteDragon
Member
This guy might've figured it out, June 2nd's reveal might be MG2 related.
Last edited:
Self High Five
Member
Last edited:
TLZ
Banned
Yes it's about MS and what they've done so far. It's mostly talk and no substance. I'm still waiting for that "daaamn!" moment.
sendit
Member
This response seems oddly dismissive:
I wonder why that...
Oh.
In a way he isn't wrong. Without the custom I/O chip in the PS5, the SSD alone (even at twice the theoretical speed as the XSX's SSD) is not ground breaking. Cerny explains this in great detail.
Starting at 13:32:
Last edited:
Entroyp
Member
This response seems oddly dismissive:
I wonder why that...
Oh.
Why are MS Employees and fans so loud? Just focus on promoting Teraflops and best to keep quiet about that part of the design you got handsomely beaten.
Last edited:
Bo_Hazem
Banned
ZehDon
Member
I didn't say Sony couldn't "go to the metal", I just said Microsoft, as an enterprise, has more experience in file management. Which they absolutely do. Of the two companies, Microsoft is the one more likely to make dramatic improvements on the software side of file management because that is literally the bread-and-butter of the company. I don't feel this is an unreasonable conclusion.
As for Sony's "unprecedented i/o throughput" creating that kind of load, that's simply not the case. The notion that Sony have entered some level of data transfer that we've never seen, or that it requires entirely new solutions that only Sony have created, all just to handle their SSD, just doesn't hold much water. For example, Sony's SSD is only considered bleeding edge within the consumer space. Once you enter the enterprise grade-hardware arena, the transfer load necessary for data-analytic-level I/O processes is quite insane, but that's because we're talking about data-centre volumes of processing. That stuff is Microsoft's wheelhouse - literally their only real competitor is Amazon, and they use mostly Microsoft-certified protocols anyway. The 5.5gb/s of the PS5's SSD is a drop in the bucket in comparison, and Windows Server can handle that I/O load already - and in that space, only Linux can really claim to have a viable alternative. That's how well they know this stuff.
To get a little more specific: the reason your consumer-level PC sees a speed improvement when you plug in an SSD vs a HDD is because Microsoft's protocols allow your OS to take advantage of it. Sony didn't invent miracles - software or hardware - they just made hardware decisions that prioritised this one facet of their console, and they've got some terrific results. It's cool stuff - but it's not "unprecedented" by any stretch of the imagination, and nothing Microsoft's engineers haven't already solved.
Sony have also said it's expandable using other drives when they become available in 2021 - so clearly their speeds are not unique at the consumer-grade, though they may be first to market. Clearly, these drives are intended to work in consumer-PCs, which means Microsoft's protocols can handle them.
As a final point: do I think Microsoft's software approach equals Sony's hardware approach in terms of pure, raw transfer speeds? No, I don't - Cerny's respected for a reason, and I think he absolutely did his homework. But I do think the difference between the two is smaller than on paper, because no one knows bits and bytes quite as well as Microsoft. Happy to be wrong - and I guess we'll see.
Hobbygaming
has been asked to post in 'Grounded' mode.
I do believe the PS5 will spend more time at its "peak" than the XSX which will be harder to develop for IMO
That's right and that could also be where the "PS5 is the superior hardware in a lot of ways" came from
- Status