Support NeoGAF

[ToadMan]

Lemme know if I've misunderstood stuff (which is likely lol)...

So the PS5 (devkit patent at least) has a giant V heatsink, double sided cooling for the components, "and" a liquid vapor chamber cooling system? Isn't this overkill?

Just how hot is this gonna run? And why? Have they overclocked all the components for some reason and are pushing them too hard, thus all the heat?

The heat output is proportional to the Power consumed - so to answer the question "how hot is it gonna get?" we need to know how much power it is consuming - a specification which Sony have capped in the design. Presumably they've chosen their cooling to be effective at that power cap.

Cooling solutions are cheaper than silicon. To get the same equivalent performance you'd need more powerful hardware not being pushed as far as the PS5 is.

So as a guess add on 0.5% of cost for enhanced cooling vs 10% for improved silicon.

 

[PlayVerso]

Hopefully soon we can stop discussing technical data.

 

[Gamerguy84]

Very impressed with next gen designs.

Was shocked about 12TF brute force approach. Impressive.

The more I read and learn about PS5 design though, wow. All the specialized hardware is amazing.

 

[MasterCornholio]

Very impressed with next gen designs.

Was shocked about 12TF brute force approach. Impressive.

The more I read and learn about PS5 design though, wow. All the specialized hardware is amazing.

I don't think any fan should be embarrassed here. They both seem like really solid consoles to me. Each with their own strengths and weaknesses.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

 

[SSfox]

I don't think any fan should be embarrassed here. They both seem like really solid consoles to me. Each with their own strengths and weaknesses.

That's what's actually bug the most, i would expect a Xbox fan to be more worry about their future consoles exclusives games, quality and quantity, but it's actually PS5 SSD that's giving them nightmares. Huh.

Weird but anyway.

 

[ToadMan]

I can’t confirm this. This is a rumor. Didn’t come from a Dev. Somebody DM me on Twitter and said Sony plans to make up for the wait and delay of the PS5 event when they do hold it. Take it as a grain of salt. What do they mean by making it up I don’t know.

Amanda Cerny presenting it.... in a swim suit.

Oh and in case anyone isn't into ladies - Mark Cerny doing the same...

 

[Bo_Hazem]

Nice box. You reminded me that I just put tootpaste on my CPU 2 days back. Worked surprisingly well. dropped temps from 80 degC on idle to 50 degC.

You run it overclocked or something? I locked mine at base 3.7Ghz of the Ryzen 7 2700x. It's idling at around 28-32C and max 55C when rendering.

 

[MasterCornholio]

That's what's actually bug the most, i would expect a Xbox fan to be more worry about their future consoles exclusives games, quality and quantity, but it's actually PS5 SSD that's giving them nightmares. Huh.

Weird but anyway.

Just talking about fanboys in general.

They always want their system to be better in every single way. When a certain spec doesn't appease them they will do anything to spin and deny they weakness that the system has when compared to the competitions.

I have come to terms on what the strengths of each are and the weaknesses are not so bad that it wi ruin the system.

Example: If the XSX went with a slow mechanical drive that would ruin the system. If the PS5 was only 6TF RDNA1 that would have been a disaster. But thankfully nothing like that happened.

 

[ToadMan]

i come back after a couple days and that slimy snake is still here still freaking out about nothing lmao

Anyways i hope that Bloodborne pc port means we're also getting a PS5 60fps patch

Yeah that's the way to think of it - PC gamers paying for our patch and towards BB2.

Actually I'm all in favor - Bloodborne really gave me headaches playing it. I could do an hour or two and had to stop. I think I got about 30 hours in and had to stop. I guess it was the variable resolution or the wonky frame pacing coupled with the dark environments - just gave me eye strain.

Now I played DS1, 2 and 3 back to back basically and didn't seem to get it so bad. Sekiro is OK too - it's the snowy environments that hurt my eyes there.

 

[MasterCornholio]

Amanda Cerny presenting it.... in a swim suit

Cerny appreciation thread

Noticed that on the Next Gen Speculation thread there was a sudden increase in attention to our beloved Amanda Cerny after some individuals looked at Mark Cerny. This thread was created to show our appreciation to Amanda Cerny and what she has done for our Next Gen Speculation thread. Feel...

www.neogaf.com

We have an appreciation thread for her now.

 

[dimaveshkin]

I don't know, maybe they want to sell new hardware?

And PS4 Pro was not new at that time and they didn't want to sell it? They had a perfect opportunity back then to improve this game for Pro because it was still pretty fresh, but it looks like they are not interested anymore. That's why i wouldn't expect too much that they will bring it back.

 

[ToadMan]

Hmm, did everybody notice Sony haven't posted anything on their Twitter account since the delay announcement?

I think that was the point of "stepping back to let more important voices be heard." - not just canceling the launch but all marketing/messaging.

Seems like all the companies that stood back have gone quiet on their social media feeds.

 

[FranXico]

I think that was the point of "stepping back to let more important voices be heard." - not just canceling the launch but all marketing/messaging.

Seems like all the companies that stood back have gone quiet on their social media feeds.

But did they shut their servers down for two hours though?

 

[xacto]

Cerny appreciation thread

Noticed that on the Next Gen Speculation thread there was a sudden increase in attention to our beloved Amanda Cerny after some individuals looked at Mark Cerny. This thread was created to show our appreciation to Amanda Cerny and what she has done for our Next Gen Speculation thread. Feel...

www.neogaf.com

We have an appreciation thread for her now.

I am weak, I had to cast my vote

 

[Dodkrake]

But did they shut their servers down for two hours though?

What servers are down?

 

[Bo_Hazem]

Probably to someones GF.

Damn you! Destroyed their Gamer lifestyle.

Well, I'm married, and my daughter likes to sleep in between, and in the process you might get stomped on your face while you are enjoying some quality, deep sleep. Considering a helmet lately.

 

[FranXico]

Well, I'm married, and my daughter likes to sleep in between, and the process you might get stomped on your face while you are enjoying some quality, deep sleep. Considering a helmet lately.

My little girl often wakes us up in the middle of the night and convinces one of us to lie down next to her. I swear, her little feet are like precise weapons that one day will puncture my ribs or break my spine.

 

[IkarugaDE]

Well, I'm married, and my daughter likes to sleep in between, and in the process you might get stomped on your face while you are enjoying some quality, deep sleep. Considering a helmet lately.

Well I have two dogs and one of them always running over the bed if she wants to drink something. She's running over me then. At 3am.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

My little girl often wakes us up in the middle of the night and convinces one of us to lie down next to her. I swear, her little feet are like precise weapons that one day will puncture my ribs or break my spine.

Let's not talk about wired headphones or any wires in that matter. That's one thing why I'm going full wireless, although I prefer wired headsets. Get pulled all the time.

And fuck InWin easy-access PC case, she always opens that shit.

But you know, those little devils are still cute.

 

[Three Jackdaws]

Funnily enough just yesterday RedGamingTech said that multi-bounce Ray-Tracing scales better with higher clock speeds where as higher CU’s can generate more rays.

Let’s see how Dicktator replies

EDIT: this was tweeted 2 months ago, there has been no reply from him...

 

[xacto]

Well I have two dogs and one of them always running over the bed if she wants to drink something. She's running over me then. At 3am.

 

[Corndog]

So Spiderman was ~46Gb install. This would make it about 36Gb-ish.

25% saving overall on game install footprint. Of course the question now is whether higher res textures will consume that saving...




I actually don't think Sony have a minimum clock as such - the system is designed to run at max clock "most of the time" - the times it dips are if developers haven't optimized effectively.

Where the Power budget is exceeded, I think they expect the cpu to down clock momentarily by a few % at most. But I don't think there's a deliberate "lower cap" - I suspect that during certification they will analyze submitted code and if its abusing the power budget and causing downclocks it'll be rejected requiring optimization.

In a sense this already happens now - if a game using fixed clocks consumes so much power it exceeds the cooling capability and causes instabiity, extreme heat or the console to shut down, it's just rejected during QA and the devs need to optimize.

Then that few percent would be the lower limit. I assume they will never publish it because it will be used by the competition.

 

[Rusco Da Vino]

Dont be fooled by the comical PS Exclusives Drama

Here is an official statement from Sony addressing this very matter

PSB: PlayStation is no stranger to publishing titles on the PC, but Horizon: Zero Dawn is one of the largest games to make that leap. Is there anything you would say to PlayStation fans? What does it mean for the future?

HH: Sure. I think it’s important that we stay open to new ideas of how to introduce more people to PlayStation, and show people maybe what they’ve been missing out on.

And to maybe put a few minds at ease, releasing one first-party AAA title to PC doesn’t necessarily mean that every game now will come to PC. In my mind, Horizon Zero Dawn was just a great fit in this particular instance. We don’t have plans for day and date [PC releases], and we remain 100% committed to dedicated hardware.

Source:

Hermen Hulst Q&A: Interview with Head of PlayStation’s Worldwide Studios

What's next for Guerrilla, upcoming TV and film projects, and the guiding principles that drive PlayStation’s network of world-class game studios.

blog.us.playstation.com

 

[Three Jackdaws]

Shout out to the singer! She was from my country and passed away at a young age! RIP

 

[Radical Dreamer]

Dont be fooled by the comical PS Excludives Drama

Here is an official statement from Sony addressing this very matter



Source:

Hermen Hulst Q&A: Interview with Head of PlayStation’s Worldwide Studios

What's next for Guerrilla, upcoming TV and film projects, and the guiding principles that drive PlayStation’s network of world-class game studios.

blog.us.playstation.com

these statements doesnt mean shit nowadays tbh

 

[ToadMan]

Then that few percent would be the lower limit. I assume they will never publish it because it will be used by the competition.

I don't think it's that - what competition is there and why would they care? they couldn't make use of that information in any technical way.

But anyway, I'd think of it as the power is limited to a max - the clock varies to remain within that max. The more extreme the power consumption, the more the down clock.

Deliberately putting "100%" (it won't be 100% but whatever the max to the GPU can be) power allocation to the gpu, and then demand more power and the GPU just downclocks to stay within the power margin. That's it - there's no lower limit on the clock, the power just cannot go above max TDP, the clock will continue to reduce as far as necessary to remain within the TDP.

Will code that does abuses the power limit be approved for release? Not knowingly, no.

The concept isn't different to last gen - what is different is that the PS5 is enforcing this limit at the system level where as xsex and previous gens relied on QA to find any code that was pushing the hardware beyond it's safe level.

 

[Nevaeh]

Does anyone know an answer for this question by Matt (a Principal Software Engineer on PS5 )

 

[Three Jackdaws]

Does anyone know an answer for this question by Matt (a Principal Software Engineer on PS5 )

Funnily enough just yesterday RedGamingTech said that multi-bounce Ray-Tracing scales better with higher clock speeds where as higher CU’s can generate more rays.

Let’s see how Dicktator replies

EDIT: this was tweeted 2 months ago, there has been no reply from him...

 

[FranXico]

Dont be fooled by the comical PS Exclusives Drama

Here is an official statement from Sony addressing this very matter



Source:

Hermen Hulst Q&A: Interview with Head of PlayStation’s Worldwide Studios

What's next for Guerrilla, upcoming TV and film projects, and the guiding principles that drive PlayStation’s network of world-class game studios.

blog.us.playstation.com

While I agree people are blowing the "issue" out of proportion, what you just posted is just a PR non-answer.

 

[funking giblet]

Does anyone know an answer for this question by Matt (a Principal Software Engineer on PS5 )

He's being facetious. A single trace would happen in a single CU, as marshaling thread context around would be super slow.

 

[Three Jackdaws]

...

 

[LED Guy?]

Context H!!! What did you learn man??

Thank you man, just edited it!

 

[Bo_Hazem]

Speaking exclusively to Times of Oman, an official from the Ministry of Technology and Communications said: “There is currently a breach of all electronic payment gateways in Oman belonging to OmanNet. It is advised to stop the electronic payment until it is corrected, as the specialized team is currently working to restore the services.

OmanNet’s payment gateway suffers breach

Muscat: An electronic payment gateway belonging to OmanNet has suffered a breach on Thursday.Speaking exclusively to Times of Oman, an official from the...

timesofoman.com

 

[Three Jackdaws]

Does anyone know an answer for this question by Matt (a Principal Software Engineer on PS5 )

Lmao I posted like a 2 minutes before you did but yeah RedGamingTech discussed this yesterday in his video and funnily enough he retweeted that tweet by Matt today as well.

The way he explained it was that higher CU count can generate more rays however higher clock frequency can allow the rays to bounce to more surfaces.

 

[SSfox]

So the new date reveal in 1 hour?

Spoiler

Better be

 

[Msamy]

So now ps5 have better ray tracing quality while xsex have better ray tracing quantity which one affect more in final image ?

 

[SlimySnake]

Dont be fooled by the comical PS Exclusives Drama

Here is an official statement from Sony addressing this very matter



Source:

Hermen Hulst Q&A: Interview with Head of PlayStation’s Worldwide Studios

What's next for Guerrilla, upcoming TV and film projects, and the guiding principles that drive PlayStation’s network of world-class game studios.

blog.us.playstation.com

I cant believe you posted that quote with a straight face.

Herman Hurst Two Months: Dont worry guys, Horizon coming to PC doesnt mean we will release every ps4 exclusive to PC.
Herman Hurst Two Months later after Bloodborne coming to PC Rumors: Please note I said not every game, not anymore games. I am a clever suit who gave himself an out just for this very scenario.

 

[Rusco Da Vino]

While I agree people are blowing the "issue" out of proportion, what you just posted is just a PR non-answer.

No.

What I posted is what Sony has said about this very matter.

I did not see Sony saying that another fucking 5 old excluive game is going to be relased on PC and some people is dealing with it as a matter of fact.

When the FUD and ongoing sensationalism BS is more relevant that what an official source says, we have a problem.

 

[enigmatic enthusiast]

More expensive modules, denser, to reach that much and yet provide sustainable speeds (heat). I paied around $300 for my 1TB last year, they're expensive, but usually inflated, that's why you get big sales later on.

Is there not usually more than one slot for M2 sdd cards? If there is then obviously getting the 2 2TB cards is a much better deal, even if it may add a little latency along the way.

 

[Three Jackdaws]

So now ps5 have better ray tracing quality while xsex have better ray tracing quantity which one affect more in final image ?

Both will look beautiful but I'm pumped for the PS5 ray-tracing, mostly because the PS exclusives would look gorgeous in them, I mean can you imagine games like Uncharted 4 and The Lost Legacy using global illuminations especially with all the exotic and strange locations we explore within those games!

 

[funking giblet]

So now ps5 have better ray tracing quality while xsex have better ray tracing quantity which one affect more in final image ?

It's much of a muchness really, hard to quantify. Raytracing is stupidly parallel, but it also likes speed so. Multibounce will tie up a job on a CU for longer though.

 

[SSfox]

I cant believe you posted that quote with a straight face.

Herman Hurst Two Months: Dont worry guys, Horizon coming to PC doesnt mean we will release every ps4 exclusive to PC.
Herman Hurst Two Months later after Bloodborne coming to PC Rumors: Please note I said not every game, not anymore games. I am a clever suit who gave himself an out just for this very scenario.

For once i agree with you, all this is just some whatever blabla PR. We can keep speculating about this subject, but in the end of the day only time will show what Hermen plans are about this "porting PS exclusives to PC" thing. Let's just hope he won't fuck up everything that people before him been building for years in the PS brand.

 

[Neo Blaster]

Microsoft's Quarter-Gen refresh will just be a version of the proprietary ssd that has a raw speed of 5.5Gb/s and we will once again descend into page after page of people explaining that there is more to PS5 speed that just the SSD

Are they going to put a lot of I/O custom silicon like Sony did? You know it's not just the SSD.

 

[Neo Blaster]

Was this posted?
Bloodborne coming to PC could mean... a Bloodborne sequel coming to PS5?
Also, how reliable is this person?

Unless there's a PS5 sequel, why would they announce that on its reveal?

 

[Three Jackdaws]

Unless there's a PS5 sequel, why would they announce that on its reveal?

People are failing to add in the tweets that followed which add in a bit more context.

 

[Faithless83]

Dont be fooled by the comical PS Exclusives Drama

Here is an official statement from Sony addressing this very matter



Source:

Hermen Hulst Q&A: Interview with Head of PlayStation’s Worldwide Studios

What's next for Guerrilla, upcoming TV and film projects, and the guiding principles that drive PlayStation’s network of world-class game studios.

blog.us.playstation.com

I believe the MS guys said the same. I agree that this hurts the brand more than helps. I know a few people that bought PS4 just to get the exclusives and mainly play on PC. Me on the other hand, skipped Xbox this gen and went to PC instead. Cases like this among the hardcores are not so rare.

Why we care? Installed base matters A LOT. It allows first/second parties to take risks (Dreams, Death Stranding anyone?) and to fully invest on the environment, as already pointed out. Remember how vita failed? How it lacked first party support? Installed base.

It's not about giving "my toys", some of us (not all, mind you) are not that petty

Spoiler: Sorry for the wall. Cerny for you that read it.

 

[kebaldo]

So now ps5 have better ray tracing quality while xsex have better ray tracing quantity which one affect more in final image ?

Neither one IMHO... I think all the muliplat developers will go with a "good for everyone" solution. And the esclusives will be difficult to compare: 1 because is difficult to compare two different games. 2 'cause (in this moment) Ms doesn't have a ND/SM that can squeeze the shit out of their console

 

[LordOfChaos]

The heat output is proportional to the Power consumed - so to answer the question "how hot is it gonna get?" we need to know how much power it is consuming - a specification which Sony have capped in the design. Presumably they've chosen their cooling to be effective at that power cap.

Cooling solutions are cheaper than silicon. To get the same equivalent performance you'd need more powerful hardware not being pushed as far as the PS5 is.

So as a guess add on 0.5% of cost for enhanced cooling vs 10% for improved silicon.

Yeah everyone seems to think this is going to be wildly expensive, but I don't think so. I think you could make about 4 PS5 APUs for every 3 SeX die area wise, the cost of the cooling is going from under a dollar to "a few", that's not enough to be more expensive than a larger APU pushing close to the limits of 7nm reticle size.

 

[hemo memo]

People are failing to add in the tweets that followed which add in a bit more context.

An announcement of a remaster on your BC console that you talked about running previous console’s games better.... very smart.