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Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD

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GAF machine

Member

The height of arrogance...

 
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“Halo Infinite is over a year away from release, but it’s already causing drama – although it’s not from the game itself, but from the game’s developer 343 Industries instead. Just two months after the departure of creative director Tim Longo and the appointment of executive producer Mary Olson into a lead producer role, Olson has already moved on and Halo Infinite is without two of its leading developers.“


Seems like the development has had some issues. 2 leads leaving as the game nears launch is probably a bad sign.

If he was the creative director who chose the story for Halo 4 and Halo 5 I'm glad he's gone, they were the two worst campaigns in the series by far.
 
I'm a big Halo fan and this isn't what I expected to see from the latest installment of the franchise.

Perception is reality. If the majority perceive it was subpar, that is the reality of it.

I was just reminiscing about my college days with Halo 1 plugged into the dorm LAN, connecting for 16 player Blood Gulch CTF, drinking. Awesome times. Using XBconnect to trick it for online matches when we weren't in a LAN match.

Nothing will ever compare to the glory days of the original Halo.

Waxing reminiscent...I do hope 343 takes these valid criticisms to heart and turns it around, though.
 
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icerock

Member

Matt Booty “We’re at a point where the technology is out of the way,” he says. “In previous generations, the hardware and its limitations would leave a pretty clear fingerprint on a game. I remember the first early games that used sprite scaling and then suddenly every game had all these objects flying around the screen. You’d build a game around technical advances like that. But now we’re at the point with the tech where we can just let the stories and the characters that the teams have in mind reach the screen.”

“I think we’re inching up on that in games, where the tech to create is just there and hopefully players are being drawn more into the story and the world and less thinking, ‘Oh wow, the load time on this game is really short.’ I mean, it’s great to have short load times, but I hope that’s not what players will pay attention to.”

The new tech is at a point where any games are possible. But, at the same time we are not dropping previous gen hardware with its limitations for next 2 years. Like what? No idea what he means by the second quote.

Booty is keen to make the point that projects developed for Xbox Series X, due this Christmas, will not be as delineated or constrained by hardware specifications as they have been in the past.

Talk about contradicting yourself in same interview, bizarre times over at MS. No idea, what they are doing with these quotes.
 
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3liteDragon

Member
Yeah considering the date it's impressive I'll give them that. Cell must have really been strong in vector operations to even manage 1/3 of 2880p ray tracing and de-noise. Man I wish they could just put a complete 7nm version of it inside PS5 SoC and not just specialized a Compute Unite into a SPU, but even that must be strong if half is enough for 3D audio. And I'm sure you have seen my speculation that the other half of it's power may be used for offloading some of RT work from the GPU. Ofc there is still RT units inside GPU that does the other half of the RT equation with hardware acceleration. It was the narrative that PS5 may be lacking in RT because of having less number of CUs, but this part that require parallelization can be offloaded into the great parallel accelerator that is the SPU in Cell. The rest of RT needs high frequency for intersection checks and de-noise, and for those parts PS5 GPU runs at an impressive 2.23GHz. So overall if Tempest is indeed is used for RT, then PS5 has stronger RT solution.
How do you know only half of it’s power is used for 3D audio? Just asking.
 

Imtjnotu

Member
During Road to ps5 video, Cerny mentioned 3d audio required half of the processing power of Tempest Engine, the other half can be use for gaming which requires heavy use of algorithm or high bandwidth.
He never said it required half the power of the tempest engine. He stated the engine itself is hasn't he same bandwidth and simd power as an 8 core jaguar. He then goes on to say games can utilize any unused power from it for convolution reverb or computational prowess or need high bandwidth
 

Games Dean

Member
From what I can tell it is story oriented as you repeat the same day over and over but the trailer does show two characters so it may also have co-op features but I don’t think it’s been confirmed yet.
I'm a few pages behind so I don't know if this has been answered, but it has asynchronous multiplayer (that you can turn off if you want). So narrative driven and you play as the guy but occasionally someone will come into your game as the woman and try to kill you. It sounds very interesting.
 

icerock

Member
According to the below GT7 and Destruction All Stars are launch window titles.




They are not reliable at all.

If it were a launch title, Sony would've conveyed that. Horizon is 2021, and they only shared that information few weeks later with a new trailer.
 

bitbydeath

Member
They are not reliable at all.

If it were a launch title, Sony would've conveyed that. Horizon is 2021, and they only shared that information few weeks later with a new trailer.

How do we know it wasn’t conveyed to them?

Also Horizon being a 2021 title lines up with the 12 month+ range.
 
Because they have no source from Sony and they have been wrong many-many times in the past, I remember reading about in OT over at Era.

They are just another aggregator who find their stuff from the internet.
Yeah, but either way I think every game revealed at the show (except Pragmata and Project Athia) is going to be released within the first 12 months.
 

icerock

Member
Yeah, but either way I think every game revealed at the show (except Pragmata and Project Athia) is going to be released within the first 12 months.

Hmm, I wouldn't be too sure about that. They showed 24 games, that's a LOT of game to have in launch year. I expect Spider-Man, Horizon and GT7 in 2020-2021 but stuff like Ratchet, Demon Souls, Returnal seems to be further out.

Project Athia is interesting because rumors point to it coming a lot earlier than many expect, we shall see. There is plenty of unannounced stuff too, big-budget Sci-Fi RPG from Japan Studio, Silent Hill reboot by original Siren team, Supermassive game.
 
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The game is too much fun. PS brothers & sisters are out here living our best samurai life ,perfecting moves. Replicating Samurai Action Choreography.

Why are people damage controlling this sub par looking Halo. All these people doing pro-bono work ,putting effects ,lighting & modding a demo. Its sad. This is capping. The game is what it is. The showcase is done. Damage has been done.

What Xbox has shown us is what it is. I don't think 343 are this bad. They are very capable. Im 1000% certain there are multiple versions of Halo builds that exist. With the 5 years spent building this game. Im certain there are many builds that look close to that earlier 2018 trailer & various builds that mimics one of the halo games. But Xbox management went with that showcase build for whatever reason.

Many devs had left the Halo project.So there is definitely clash of decisions happening at 343 & Xbox.Overall I just don't care. The truth will all come out at some point. The fact people are damage controlling a bad looking game & doing FREE DEV work is the most tragic thing.

All this gamepass talk needs to slow the fuck down. It's starting to sound like smart delivery, velocity PR BS. It's like you people dont learn. Everything MS hype ends up being meh at best. Gamepass last defence line is getting absurd. That journos are obviously paid to shill & hype it. It's not the only player. PSNOW has way more games than gamepass.A lot of JRPG .And newish games. And PS dont even promote it.

Everything with PS5 is getting a refresh. Everything is NEW. Anyone that thinks PS will stay stagnant here. Is a fool.What are people going to say if PS decide to promote PSNOW on a big stage with everyone watching.

What happens if PSNow gets a promo. Talking up its 800 game library. And then say we are bringing massive library of PS1,2,3,4 era games.Works anywhere TV ,phone,PC And then offer a compelling price or PS+Now combo for £60-80 a year.

What then? No one will think of gamepass. Because once again it doesn't have games.And at anytime Sony can drop the exclusives in there to entice. This gamepass hype is heading for another L. It's missing the most important thing GAMES. Xbox need to leave the console war PR alone stay out of Sonys way. And PR like Nintendo.

I swear man there are people who make it sound like Game Pass trumps Sony's offering which is just not true. The one thing Microsoft is doing better than PS is talk about Game Pass and keep marketing it in every turn. Meanwhile Sony PR folks are like should we even include PS Now in any of our twitter discussions or marketing events?
 

FeiRR

Banned
Yeah this really should be called the "Bashing XSX, praising PS5 |OT|"
This is a technical OT thread. The main problem with Xbox fans is they're not technical. They come here and spread theories of technical dominance of Xbox which is a lie implanted in naive minds by Microsoft marketing. When you see a post by an Xbox fan saying things like "ha, ha, Xbox has VRS and PS5 DOESN'T!!!", you might get upset. Because the reality is, PS5 doesn't need VRS. It has hardware to deal with geometry long time before you think about textures in the rendering pipeline. Then we see something like Halo with terrible popins and 720p textures in the background: VRS doing what's it supposed to but making the image quality terrible. Then Xbox fans try to twist what they'd seen to their advantage, which creates more turmoil. Another example:

There is actual footage showing seamless transitional worlds on the fly. You also play both worlds at the same time. Both appear to be in the game.
This is all bullcrap. The Medium doesn't need any SSD to work. It could be ported to Xbox basic, PS4, Switch, even today's phones. But this guy believes what the marketing machine fed him because he saw one matte picture fade in the trailer. But of course he'll stand by his (implanted) idea and fight till the end, which might be a reply ban. And then it repeats.

I remember one, maybe two guys in this thread who said they were Xbox fans and they could participate in a technical discussion. Why is that? I think that is the result of Microsoft's marketing lies being fed to their audience for the last 10 or so years. They got cocky after a substantial success of X360 and thought they'd eat another industry branch just like they did with OS/office in 1990s. But people put in charge of the Xbox division aren't Bill Gates and they couldn't do it. We're just observing the aftermath of that.

At this point I think it's impossible to be an Xbox fan and believe they're going to dominate the gaming market or even play a major role in it, delivering games at least on pair with the big players. Of course you can love Halo or Forza because they happen to be your kind of games. Nothing wrong with it. There's also nothing wrong with not being technical. But being naive and stubborn, well, that's a bit different.

Imagine a guy entering a climatology experts meeting and shouting "your global warming is fake!". What will the participants do, try to convince him? (I still see some people here doing that, kudos to them) No, they'll just call security. And that's exactly what happens here because we come to this thread to discuss technical facts and we expect mods to make it possible.
 
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FeiRR

Banned
Man, that's really crazy! Thank you for sharing!
Raytracing is possible on any hardware because it's just another (very complex and compute-heavy) way of generating graphics. Here's an example of RT done on PS2. I've seen even slower platforms doing it (or faking it). Of course this has no practical application, rather a proof of concept that it can be done. And that's exactly what we do at demoscene (Assembly is a demoscene meeting).
 

FranXico

Member
The usual RDNA troll comments in reply but Paul but posted this...


Goes against that Sony guy said unless they are on about different ways to use it? Or just can support it?
Must be some basic ML hardware support which still entails performance costs if one uses it. I still don't expect anything like DLSS on PS5.

Good to see Paul losing fear of speaking his mind. At first, he had lots of disclaimers in his videos "I'm not saying the PS5 has any advantage" to please the fanatics. Now, he just says "you know, maybe it has this or that aspect a little better. Doesn't make me love my Xbox any less. So sod off, fanboys".
 
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SirTerry-T

Member
This is a technical OT thread. The main problem with Xbox fans is they're not technical....
Come on now, there is nothing wrong with wanting to proudly wear your team colours and indulge in a bit of banter...if that's what gets you going, I suppose but that second opening line in your XBox fan dissertation is a generalising crock of shite however you try a frame it.
 

Sinthor

Gold Member
How do you know only half of it’s power is used for 3D audio? Just asking.
Power of CPUs are calculated in single precision floating-point numbers, just like GPUS. But these are in Giga order not Tera, so an order of magnitude (1000 times) less powerful.

FLOPS = 2 * (# of cores) * (number of clock cycles per second) * (number of floating point operations per cycle) for x86 architecture

PS3 Cell ran at 3.2GHz, SPU could do four single-precision floating-point numbers in a single clock cycle
So a single SPU FLOPS= 2*1*4*3.2=25,6 GFLOPS

PS4 Jaguar ran at 1.6Ghz, could do two single-precision floating-point numbers in a single clock cycle
So PS4 whole CPU FLOPS=2*8*2*1,6=51,2 GFLOPS

As you can see a single Cell SPU has half the power of whole 8 Jaguar cores of PS4's CPU. My guess is based on them targeting a single SPU for their Tempest Engine and turning a single CU into that. When you consider this if they created a unit capable of the whole PS4 CPU then that means it has power of 2 SPUs from Cell, not just one. So, 1 PS5 CU=2 Cell SPU.

So with that point in mind, I guessed that only half the power of that unit would be enough for audio purposes if they had fashioned an SPU out of a AMD CU for Tempest and got themselves double the SPU power in the end. What they achieved in the end is described by Cerny as SIMD power of 8 cores of PS4 Jaguar CPU, and the way he framed that in his words is describing it like achieving more than they targeted at same die space cost.

Yes Jaguar cores are very low powered laptop spec (we are talking about PS4 CPU in the end and this is next gen), but still its the whole CPU in just a few mm2 of die, on a customized single CU, and that is MAINLY FOR AUDIO.

Now lets do some unimportant mental gymnastic for fun-> Think of it this way, if all PS5 CUs would be fashioned into Cell's SPUs that would be equal to 36*2=72 PS3 Cell SPUs (PS3 only had 7) or if you want it in terms of PS4 CPU cores 36*2*4=288 (PS4 only had 8).
 

TBiddy

Member
Come on now, there is nothing wrong with wanting to proudly wear your team colours and indulge in a bit of banter...if that's what gets you going, I suppose but that second opening line in your XBox fan dissertation is a generalising crock of shite however you try a frame it.

Haha yeah. I've seen a lot of patronizing shit, but that was impressive on a whole new level. Anyone reading this thread knows that there's very little actual technical discussion and a lot of FUD, guesswork, console warring and meme'ing going on..
 
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FeiRR

Banned
You can sign up on a different country's ps now. Hopefully you have multiple psn accounts, and if not, do it. That's a free life hack advice :p



This happens if you try to add a CC to a foreign account, probably because addresses don't match. If you know how, please share. I'd like to test PS Now.
 

Nickolaidas

Member
Does Greece have the infrastructure for it? Or you wouldn't use it for streaming, only for downloading games?
Probably. I mean, we can go up to 200 Mbps (around 25 MB download speed per second). I have a 100 Mbps connection myself.

I guess I could try my US PSN account ... haven't used it for a few years, it might be gone ...

How much does PS Now costs a year?

EDIT: Nvm, saw it. 60 bucks a year, alongside PS PLus on my EU account for another 60 bucks?

Hmm ... I'll wait for the PS5 - maybe they'll fuse those two services ala GamePass Ultimate, or something ...



This happens if you try to add a CC to a foreign account, probably because addresses don't match. If you know how, please share. I'd like to test PS Now.

Well, you could buy another country's PSN Card via websites which sell them ...
 
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azertydu91

Hard to Kill


This happens if you try to add a CC to a foreign account, probably because addresses don't match. If you know how, please share. I'd like to test PS Now.
You need to go on a website to either ass money to your account by buying a playstation card for the country in which your created the account OR just buy a Psnow card for the account's country.
I for example use Pcgamesupply to add money to my canadian account to buy games cheaper than where I live.
 

Evilms

Banned

"
...When playing these, I didn’t know who to blame for poor performance, the game’s developers, or the console itself."


Instead, he is more concerned with players consuming games the same way viewers consume movies: without a thought on the tech behind the media, but rather focused entirely on the spectacle on-screen.

He goes on to say that he hopes players don’t pay attention to short load times and instead are “drawn more into the story and the world.”"

Basically, if the technique isn't up to scratch, for example as in infinite halo on Series X, it's the developers' fault and the most important thing is that the players consume their video games like movies, i.e. without
thinking about the whole technical side and that they don't pay attention to the short loading times but rather to the experience and the history/universe of the game.

A year they've been harping on: 12 tflops, true rdna 2, most powerful console evaaa... to say now that we shouldn't focus on.

Ok matty
 
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