Thirty7ven
Banned
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If you subscribe to the notion then you're a low IQ individual and that's that.
MasterCornholio
Member
I can see people make claims that the variable clocks will make PS5 drop below Lockharts TF count.
Just another wave of FUD waiting to be spread around.
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sircaw
Banned
Stop with the fud please Bo.
I got reliable information today that it's going to run at 120fps with full raytracing.
God damn Sony Peasant. Back to your tent.
4x more powerful than 2080Ti
splattered
Member
silent head
Member
Thirty7ven
Banned
You don't have to please me brother. You do you.
DaGwaphics
Member
Gamernyc78
Banned
IkarugaDE
Member
By the way, welcome back! Didn't read all the pages after you disappeared cause it wasn't the same.
OT, do you watch champions league today and tomorrow? The team of my hometown and my favourite are in the semi final
IllegalLemon
Member
Q2 is essentially inside the 1st half of that year between April and June.
MasterCornholio
Member
RDNA2 is an evolution of RDNA so of course it's going to have alot of similarities. What I noticed from Marks talk is how he said RDNA2 CUs. I'm guessing the CUs are one of the things different from RDNA since he said that. There's probably other things but I'm not sure what they are.
Edit: Just saw this.
It makes perfect sense to me and I expect alot from the previous RDNAs to be in RDNA3.
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TheGreatWhiteShark
Member
as a playstation proponent, I find it funny that you talk like that.
since we already know that CUs is the place were raytracing calculations will take place,
and ps5 has 50% less than xbox, here is a simple example for you to ponder:
lets say a game -a third party game- uses 28 CUs on ps5 for everything else, and keeps 8 for ray tracing effects.
xbox can easily use 36 Cus for everything else, over-compensating the max possible Hz difference, and still have more than double the available CUs for raytracing effects.
should I wish you good luck?
Aceofspades
Banned
Bo_Hazem
Banned
By the way, welcome back! Didn't read all the pages after you disappeared cause it wasn't the same.
OT, do you watch champions league today and tomorrow? The team of my hometown and my favourite are in the semi final
Well, I was happy you spanked Barca, but would like a bozo to win the champions league like PSG or Lyon.
sircaw
Banned
By the way, welcome back! Didn't read all the pages after you disappeared cause it wasn't the same.
OT, do you watch champions league today and tomorrow? The team of my hometown and my favourite are in the semi final
Wtf the fuck dude i was still here, i am like
Bo_Hazem
2.0, terminator 2 was better than 1, I don't care what anyone says.Please don't tell me you value Bo more than me, Wtf is it, the camel>? the oil fields? the Harem.?
You're off my god damn Xmas turkey list.
Bonsaibäumchen
Member
Your post just shows that you didn't get how RT works at all on both consoles.
Killer Sakoman
Member
I Hope the final to be Liepzig vs BayernBy the way, welcome back! Didn't read all the pages after you disappeared cause it wasn't the same.
OT, do you watch champions league today and tomorrow? The team of my hometown and my favourite are in the semi final
TheGreatWhiteShark
Member
yeah, ok dude
FeiRR
Banned
Now I understand why they haven't showed any new games on XSX. DX12U for Xbox isn't ready. Oh well, there's always the pandemic to blame.
Neo Blaster
Member
Considering calculations people already made here based on the Hot Chips info, there's a difference of just 18% in number of Grays between both consoles. And let's not forget that rays can have more bounces in PS5 thanks to the higher frequency.
No need to wish me luck at all.
geordiemp
Member
Something is not ready, I read a few months back on b3d they were still working on Velocity Architecture.
Makes sense, no games shown on XSX, no fast loading shown. YET.
Bonsaibäumchen
Member
If its true that XsX can only do RT or use TMU at the same time but also true that Sony decoupled RT operations from TMUs then PS5 will have the upper hand...
TheGreatWhiteShark
Member
what calculations? oh, you mean like calculating how much rt power the consoles would have if they did nothing else with their CUs but raytrace?
ok, I'll give you that: when both ps5 (at full speed) and box are rendering nothing and playing nothing, the rt difference between them would theoretically be at around 18%
now go back to what I wrote and re-read
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MasterCornholio
Member
Something is up. Sony is supposed to be having all these problems but they managed to show games on the PS5.
I wonder what's going on with the XSX? I believe it's something to do with the dev kits and the I/0 but no idea what those issues are if they really exist.
jose4gg
Member
The problem is that you are suggesting something that is not real...
Xbox can use 36 CU for rendering and the rest for RT, PS5 can't do that because it just has 36 CU... Yea, but PS5 has more clock speed per CU, meaning Xbox will be at a disadvantage if something like that happens...
The reality is PS5 can use 8 CU for RT for example, and XSX can use 12, but RT will be calculated faster per CU in the PS5, making the difference one more time 18% percent...
The calculation that has been used to show this 18% already includes the difference in CU count between both systems, whatever ends up been the real number of CU used for RT, the number will decrease proportionally between both consoles, and the difference in performance will stay the same.
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THE:MILKMAN
Member
AMD's variable clocks thingy?
My understanding from R2PS5 is the variable clocks are something Sony came up with that AMD helped them with and that Sony then added AMD's SmartShift "while we're at it" that only shifts electrical power between CPU/GPU. It has nothing to do with the variable clocks.
And even if the variable clocks are a AMD thing just take a look at this graph posted on Beyond3D that shows PC GPUs already have constantly variable clocks:
"full fledged"!
So glad to see twitter users getting specific in their architectural detail comparisons, and all based on guessing/assumptions.
Maybe MS should start a marketing campaign, on their system being full fledged.
Maybe "fully baked", or "up to snuff", or "cutting edge" should be considered also when making those comparisons.
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Darius87
Member
52CU's - 100%
36Cu's - X%
X% = 100 - ((36CU's * 100%) / 52CU's) = 30.7% where's 50% from?
also RT works in parallel not allocating individual CU's.
also PS5 RT solution is more elegant then RDNA 2.0 not sure what that means but it's likely customized.
also RT can be calculated along with other ops except textures ops because it's shared 4 ops/clock.
Darklor01
Might need to stop sniffing glue
There will likely be a number games on both systems with 1440p options. This is an opinion of mine, not a fact.
Everything is game to game. Despite the Hot Chips deep dive showing us a VERY impressive set up, I will say, there is no proper breadth of games, nor tech analysis for out there on these non-existent games to make any claims.
Both systems will have games and run them. Some games will look great, some like shit. That's what we know. Here's when we don't. Everything else.
Let's wait and see, shall we?
ToadMan
Member
AMD's variable clocks thingy?
My understanding from R2PS5 is the variable clocks are something Sony came up with that AMD helped them with and that Sony then added AMD's SmartShift "while we're at it" that only shifts electrical power between CPU/GPU. It has nothing to do with the variable clocks.
And even if the variable clocks are a AMD thing just take a look at this graph posted on Beyond3D that shows PC GPUs already have constantly variable clocks:
I hadn’t seen this slide before but is interesting - thanks for posting.
It seems to me that those down spikes in the clock - outliers due to excessive power demand - are exactly the point of smartshift.
Rather than downclock due to insufficient power, smartshift allows the gpu to consume untapped cpu power, allowing the clocks to remain near peak and under load.
Neo Blaster
Member
You are the one who should re-read, dude, this calculation was made based on the number of Grays MS themselves disclosed in one of the slides. If that's a peak number when CUs are doing nothing else, then it applies to both XSX and PS5, considering ALL CUs each machine has, so what I said still goes.
Just to add something to this ap per hotchips xsx cant cast Ray's and operate TMU at the same time. You have to either do 4 ray ops or 4 texture ops you cant do both at the same time. So xsx can never use all 52 CU for ray tracing.
Sinthor
Gold Member
Are some people seriously still on this 'PS5 is not RDNA 2' thing? Really? Because the PS5 started development earlier? Yeah..totally makes sense... Not like companies like AMD have plans YEARS in advance for product lines so they can align their business to the roadmaps or anything like that. Sheesh. I... I just don't have words for this BS anymore....
jose4gg
Member
He is committing a very simple mistake, normally committed in math, what he suggests is that XSX can always have more CU than PS5 so PS5 and XSX will have the same CU for let say rasterization but XSX will have more CU for RT. He does not consider that because CU in PS5 runs faster rasterization would be better in PS5.
Where the point is that if both PS5 and XSX just use part of the CU for their RT, the difference in performance will continue to be the same.
PS5 -> 10, XSX ~15 => 18%
PS5 -> 20, XSX ~30=> 18%
Yes, XSX will always use more CU, but the difference will be always proportional to the total of the max capacity for both of them.
DaGwaphics
Member
When you think about it, those lower clocks might be easier to maintain. It's possible that PS5 continues to lose power over time, both short-term from the heat production and via long-term negative effects on the silicone. Sony might be 10.2 to start, give or take 2 or 3 TFs off the top, but as time goes on you've got to figure smartshift starts to get more "special" (the Kardashian effect), and then you're down to what 2TFs if you are lucky. I'm just joking, but it's actually very logical if you think about it or don't.
IkarugaDE
Member
Well, I was happy you spanked Barca, but would like a bozo to win the champions league like PSG or Lyon.
Well, I like you 2. But ur looking a bit fishy to me.Wtf the fuck dude i was still here, i am like
Please don't tell me you value Bo more than me, Wtf is it, the camel>? the oil fields? the Harem.?
You're off my god damn Xmas turkey list.
Would be nice on the one hand, but then I would be lost. Leipzig is my hometown and Bayern my favourite Club since I was a kid. I couldn't decide who I would treat more.
Elog
Member
Please note that you assume that the RT solution is the same on the two machines. We do not know that. In the past Sony has done several customisations even on the CU level. We have to wait to see what their RT solution is until we have a hot-chip like breakdown of the PS5.
I am not sure that most people even know that half the CUs in the PS4 pro was different than all other CUs that AMD has made. Sony has never revealed what change they implemented but you can see on the silicon that each CU in one block has a larger mm2 silicon foot print.
On the PS4 basic model Sony added Shader capacity to the CU block compared to the basic AMD layout that the Xbox had.
And so on.
Edit: Spelling
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jose4gg
Member
When you think about it, those lower clocks might be easier to maintain. It's possible that PS5 continues to lose power over time, both short-term from the heat production and via long-term negative effects on the silicone. Sony might be 10.2 to start, give or take 2 or 3 TFs off the top, but as time goes on you've got to figure smartshift starts to get more "special" (the Kardashian effect), and then you're down to what 2TFs if you are lucky. I'm just joking, but it's actually very logical if you think about it or don't.
I would be worried if Smarshift worked based on heat...
Gamerguy84
Member
This isnt trolling.
MS is very far behind in everything whatever the reasons are.
Geordie showed the post from B3D about final dev kits. I remember now where I read about VA. No one has seen them publicly.
Everything at their show was running on a PC.
The Halo debacle.
XSS hasnt even been mentioned and nothing from hot chips so Id be surprised if it launched soon.
On the flipside pictures of PS5 devkits were out a long time ago (the V) and there has been revisions.
Everything at Sony show was pulled from an actual PS5.
PS5 has software at launch and a lot more in the launch window.
Just give me the price and a pre-order button.
MS is very far behind in everything whatever the reasons are.
Geordie showed the post from B3D about final dev kits. I remember now where I read about VA. No one has seen them publicly.
Everything at their show was running on a PC.
The Halo debacle.
XSS hasnt even been mentioned and nothing from hot chips so Id be surprised if it launched soon.
On the flipside pictures of PS5 devkits were out a long time ago (the V) and there has been revisions.
Everything at Sony show was pulled from an actual PS5.
PS5 has software at launch and a lot more in the launch window.
Just give me the price and a pre-order button.
MasterCornholio
Member
Poor
Bo_Hazem
if he tries to play it in the middle of the desert.
sircaw
Banned
Coulomb_Barrier
Member
This brings up an interesting thought. I wonder if Series X was designed (assuming) less custom or less different from the norm to not screw cross compatibility with PC, first and foremost, and Series S. As this machine was built to be cross compatible from the start, whereas PS5 doesnt have these constraints.
MasterCornholio
Member
And if an eagle is flying around then he has a desert eagle.
Would love to own one in 50 A.E but the ammo is expensive as hell.
Mr Moose
Member
50% less what? CUs? It's ~30% less.
Edit: Beaten.
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MasterCornholio
Member
TheGreatWhiteShark
Member
ps5 36 CUs are 100%
xbox 52 CUs are n%
so xbox has n= 52*100 /36= 144,5% the cu's ps5 has. (somehow when I did the calculation in my mind before, I used 54cus instead of 52, hence the 150% instead of 144%)
as for the "elegant solutions" mystique and etc cerny sweet talk, yeah, ok.
both consoles are customized. why should sony's undescribed solution be more "elegant" than microsoft's? if anything, from what both companies have shown until now it seems that more "elegant" is the microsoft approach. (form factor, thermal footprint, Hz, power levels etc)
the "allocation" was to make the example easier to understand. would you prefer to break it down to cycles of individual CU's?
no, I wrote that for the same 28 CUs that PS5 allocates to rendering/shading/etc, xbox allocates 36, thus already over-compensating for the Mhz difference when ps5 runs at full speed.
then, while ps5 will have 8 CUs, xbox will still have 52-36= 16 and not 12, twice as many just like I wrote above.
on top, if you want to get more complicated, I'd ask that -since this sounds like a "worst case game" scenario per cerny's vocabulary- what would the real ps5 clockspeeds be at that case?
anyway....
soonish there will be no more "elegant mysteries", that's one thing that is for sure.
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WhispersintheWind
Member
I haven’t talked to anybody in about a month. Been super busy with stuff going on in real life. So I can’t comment on anything like that.
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