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Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD

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psorcerer

Banned
BAM!!!Thats damn good strat. Anaconda and PS5 play games at 4K high settings, Lockhart plays them at medium in 1440p.

Utter bullshit. Instead of a real nextgen baseline you get games for a last gen machine. But in 4k. Nobody cares about resolution. Any blu-ray movie in 720p looks miles above 4k games on PC "ultra" settings.
Resolution doesn't sell. Image quality sells.
 

R600

Banned
Utter bullshit. Instead of a real nextgen baseline you get games for a last gen machine. But in 4k. Nobody cares about resolution. Any blu-ray movie in 720p looks miles above 4k games on PC "ultra" settings.
Resolution doesn't sell. Image quality sells.
But PS5 and Anaconda where always going to be 4K,what are you on about? They even started to talk about 8K.

Do you realize how much more performance you need to run same game at same settings at 2/4x resolution? Thats what MS is doing. Instead of creating one console, like Sony, for native 4k, they are building one additional for 1080/1440p and 50% the GPU power.

Nothing has changed, it does spell trouble for Sony if alot of people dont care about native 4k and buy into 300$ console for next gen instead 500$ one.
 

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
No offense but I'll trust jason and tom more than Klee and Matt.
but they both reported that lockheart was dead.

isnt it possible that lockheart was revived and jason and tom simply found out about it before everyone else because they are still in the industry?
 

vpance

Member
Maybe part of Tom Warrens "surprise" was cancelling/uncancelling strat so that Sony stays in dark about it. I dont think they ever went back with it. They will push Anaconda high, Sony will respond in similar manner with PS5 and then MS will come with next gen console for peeps who dont need 4K and highest settings, and are fine with 1080/1440p.

For all the guys who said "fuck resolution, its a waste, its all about next gen effects." We'll see if they where right.

I think the reason we're hearing about this now is that MS probably feels safe to go ahead with Lockhart for sure, as in they know Sony is locked in to whatever spec at this point and can make a final informed decision.
 

Fake

Member
exactly what I mean. If you can't agree with that then your decision for which next gen console you want has been made.


You mean, get a PC? Or on Xbox side you still consider PC?
Are people with will neither get a Scarlet or PS5, just PC.
 

FrostyJ93

Member
You mean, get a PC? Or on Xbox side you still consider PC?
Are people with will neither get a Scarlet or PS5, just PC.

What I meant is if you want more perf just get anaconda or if you do not agree with the new vision for xbox get a PS5, which most of you are probably planning to do anyway.
 

FranXico

Member
I think the reason we're hearing about this now is that MS probably feels safe to go ahead with Lockhart for sure, as in they know Sony is locked in to whatever spec at this point and can make a final informed decision.
I still don't get how is this "surprising" Sony or catching them off-guard, since a lower specced console is not going to impact their strategy significantly. At most, Sony will try to market their console as the mid-tier compromise between price and power.
 
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Fake

Member
What I meant is if you want more perf just get anaconda or if you do not agree with the new vision for xbox get a PS5, which most of you are probably planning to do anyway.
I get, but you still don't understand the tweet you even mention.
Let me translate to you. Its not about choice. They just want 'you' (consumer) to be on his ecosystem. Nothing more. Either by getting Anaconda/Scarlet or even getting a PS5 at least if you're using Windows system in your home. Maybe sometime even on Nintendo Switch 'IF' Nintendo allow Windows Store/Xbox Live/Etc...

Thats was the viewpoint of that tweet.
 
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FrostyJ93

Member
I get, but you still don't understand the tweet you even mention.

Let me translate to you. Its not about choise. They just want you on his ecosystem. Nothing more. Either buy getting Anaconda/Scarlet or even getting a PS5 at least if you're using Windows system in your home.

Yeah. Hardware is not as important for them as it used to be. As long as you are playing xbox games and using Xbox services MS no longer cares where you do it. As long as its in their ecosystem. Some people cant seem to wrap their brains around this though.
 

R600

Banned
I still don't get how is this "surprising" Sony or catching them off-guard, since a lower specced console is not going to impact their strategy significantly. At most, Sony will try to market their console as the mid-tier compromise between price and power.
If Sony goes for high end and 500$, they cant market it as mid tier (and they never would). If MS wants to push higher tier console as hard as possible and price it at 500$ it creates a problem for Sony, especially if its stronger.
 
Childish is taking the word from any entity whether they are professionals or not and thinking it holds any more weight than any others bcus it's literally tales from their ass and has an agenda behind it. Having business and dealings with another company plays a part on how they go about painting pictures of competitors, if ppl think tht doesn't play a part in ppls narratives than thts being naive. 8tf is laughable bcus it's not tht big of a jump considering the X is 6tf.

Thts just my take based on all these years observing how thy move.

xD If you can't prove it's an agenda, then stop saying it's an agenda. Plain and simple. And yes, some people's opinions are much more credible than others. A random dude off the street can say a satellite orbit is gonna be a dud all they want, but if it's between them saying that and a NASA engineer who worked on the project giving factual evidence that it'd be a successful orbit, 99% of people are going to weigh the NASA dude's opinion head and shoulders above random Joe from the street on the matter.

You don't even seem aware of the architecture improvements Navi makes over GCN (same as Zen 2 over Jaguar); DF considered that from the jump when they were giving their speculation.
 

Mass Shift

Member
I think the reason we're hearing about this now is that MS probably feels safe to go ahead with Lockhart for sure, as in they know Sony is locked in to whatever spec at this point and can make a final informed decision.

Hmmm. Up until now I was privately convinced Sony had the edge in performance, but now I'm thinking Phil may take the stage next year and catch us all off guard.
 

FranXico

Member
If Sony goes for high end and 500$, they cant market it as mid tier (and they never would). If MS wants to push higher tier console as hard as possible and price it at 500$ it creates a problem for Sony, especially if its stronger.
Where does the weaker console factor in on that though?
 
I'm not too worried since even if its weaker its the same stuff. SSD, GDDR6, Navi, and Zen. Devs will make it work. They always have.

Heck look at the switch its doing great.

If the only thing Lockhart has different is lack of a disc drive, what the heck is the point? The disc drives don't cost them anything more than $30. If they're using a weaker Zen 2 and scaled back (but architecturally similar) GPU, smaller SSD etc., then that means they have to split their bulk pricing deals between two tiers of components, which means they pay more for each type.

And putting out Lockharts in big numbers means less resources for Scarlet manufacturing. There's just not much a point for Lockhart right out of the gate, and it's too early for word to keep popping up about it, too. IMHO.
 

FranXico

Member
xD If you can't prove it's an agenda, then stop saying it's an agenda. Plain and simple. And yes, some people's opinions are much more credible than others. A random dude off the street can say a satellite orbit is gonna be a dud all they want, but if it's between them saying that and a NASA engineer who worked on the project giving factual evidence that it'd be a successful orbit, 99% of people are going to weigh the NASA dude's opinion head and shoulders above random Joe from the street on the matter.

You don't even seem aware of the architecture improvements Navi makes over GCN (same as Zen 2 over Jaguar); DF considered that from the jump when they were giving their speculation.
Experts who are analysing hardware from two competing companies have a long history of being sponsored by one of those two companies, and you don't see why people are suspicious of their judgement?

No wonder the 2007 crash happened.
 
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KAL2006

Banned
People using PC games as a example of baseline don't get the point.

The current gen baseline is Xbox One S, majority of multiplatform games that are on PC can't run on PCs much weaker than a Xbox One S, there obviously quite a few exceptions like Overwatch and etc. But let's be honest we can agree baseline is Xbox One X. You not seeing Assassin's Creed Origins running on a PC with a worse CPU and GPU and RAM than a Xbox One S.

Xbox Lokhart will is going to be the next gen baseline which is a shame. If they scrapped Lokhart then PS5/Anaconda would have been the baseline.
 
Hmmm. Up until now I was privately convinced Sony had the edge in performance, but now I'm thinking Phil may take the stage next year and catch us all off guard.
Was obvious from the start, MS not giving Dev Kits hints at a surprise, i don't know why people claiming Sony is more powerful, just wait and see the announcement stop claiming the unknown.
 
People using PC games as a example of baseline don't get the point.

The current gen baseline is Xbox One S, majority of multiplatform games that are on PC can't run on PCs much weaker than a Xbox One S, there obviously quite a few exceptions like Overwatch and etc. But let's be honest we can agree baseline is Xbox One X. You not seeing Assassin's Creed Origins running on a PC with a worse CPU and GPU and RAM than a Xbox One S.

Xbox Lokhart will is going to be the next gen baseline which is a shame. If they scrapped Lokhart then PS5/Anaconda would have been the baseline.
It depends on Lockhart's architecture and components. With a proper GPU and SSD, it is not out of the realm of possibility that the Lockhart will be given downscaled versions of next gen games. There is no way to know for sure so I totally understand frustration around speculation of what the baseline will be but we DO have a market that shows games can be developed for higher tier products and downscaled to the lower tier (the PC market). Somebody playing GTA V on a trash PC has not changed my experience on my gaming rig. Same goes for Red Dead 2. My experience on PC wasn't effected by somebody trying to play it on the smaller system. Game development has been that way for awhile now in the console market, mainly this gen. It's only logical as the next gen pushes us closer to PC in terms of system components and design that the development process and methods of downscaling COULD follow. We don't know.

Also, FH4 was awesome on the X and I wasn't effected by people playing it on the Xbox One OG or S. Again, we've seen these levels of downscaling even in the current gen.
 

Gamernyc78

Banned
xD If you can't prove it's an agenda, then stop saying it's an agenda. Plain and simple. And yes, some people's opinions are much more credible than others. A random dude off the street can say a satellite orbit is gonna be a dud all they want, but if it's between them saying that and a NASA engineer who worked on the project giving factual evidence that it'd be a successful orbit, 99% of people are going to weigh the NASA dude's opinion head and shoulders above random Joe from the street on the matter.

You don't even seem aware of the architecture improvements Navi makes over GCN (same as Zen 2 over Jaguar); DF considered that from the jump when they were giving their speculation.

Very aware of the architecture improvement, how can't one be at this point if you frecuent this site? I just don't believe the bs just bcus it's coming from a so called authority figure, life doesn't work tht way for me. And I Def dont listen to ppl tht think thy are know it all either and have a response for everything 😁
 

FrostyJ93

Member
Well if both are pushed for 500$ and losing money, 1440p next gen console for 300$ could be attractive deal.

Yeah an afforable next gen console that gets the new xbox ecosystem into houses and helps drive digital sales can greatly offset losses on scarlett hardware if pulled off.
 
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Gamernyc78

Banned
Was obvious from the start, MS not giving Dev Kits hints at a surprise, i don't know why people claiming Sony is more powerful, just wait and see the announcement stop claiming the unknown.

It's obvious by your username your paradigm of thought. We will all be back when the reveals come out lol don't be surprised when Sony's machine is stronger. Can it happen the other way? Yes but I don't think it will idgaf what Phil or arm chair analyst fans say they are not in Sony's corporate meetings, nor know what thy are aiming for. Doesn't help their theary when Microsoft has been so full of crap and blew hot air in consumers face with many things in the past. They don't get benefit of doubt from me.
 
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KAL2006

Banned
It depends on Lockhart's architecture and components. With a proper GPU and SSD, it is not out of the realm of possibility that the Lockhart will be given downscaled versions of next gen games. There is no way to know for sure so I totally understand frustration around speculation of what the baseline will be but we DO have a market that shows games can be developed for higher tier products and downscaled to the lower tier (the PC market). Somebody playing GTA V on a trash PC has not changed my experience on my gaming rig. Same goes for Red Dead 2. My experience on PC wasn't effected by somebody trying to play it on the smaller system. Game development has been that way for awhile now in the console market, mainly this gen. It's only logical as the next gen pushes us closer to PC in terms of system components and design that the development process and methods of downscaling COULD follow. We don't know.

Also, FH4 was awesome on the X and I wasn't effected by people playing it on the Xbox One OG or S. Again, we've seen these levels of downscaling even in the current gen.

Regardless it will affect multiplatform development. For the last 2 gens consoles have always been a baseline and I don't see why this wouldn't be the case next gen. Microsoft just lowered the baseline.

Yes of course you can argue well Lokhart isn't going for 4k. Who is to say every game will be running native 4k. If Lokhart didn't exist we would have probably got some games running below 4k that push the graphics alot. But now that Lokhart exists they will target Lokhart and then just make PS5/Anaconda 4k native. Also it's more work for developers, more QA etc.

People saying if you are not happy with their vision get a PS5, well it will affect PS5 for multiplatform games as Lokhart is the new baseline. Developers are not just going to ignore a whole market.
 

R600

Banned
Are Xbox One X a 1440p console? And Microsoft say the games will work at the entire Xbox family.
X is mid gen 4k console refresh that plays same games as Xbox S, at 4x the resolution.

Lockhart will be exact same console with -60% GPU TFLOPs that plays 1440p/1080p games instead or 4K from Anaconda.
 
People using PC games as a example of baseline don't get the point.

The current gen baseline is Xbox One S, majority of multiplatform games that are on PC can't run on PCs much weaker than a Xbox One S, there obviously quite a few exceptions like Overwatch and etc. But let's be honest we can agree baseline is Xbox One X. You not seeing Assassin's Creed Origins running on a PC with a worse CPU and GPU and RAM than a Xbox One S.

Xbox Lokhart will is going to be the next gen baseline which is a shame. If they scrapped Lokhart then PS5/Anaconda would have been the baseline.
That is just not true. Red Dead 2 for example has minimum requirements of 8GB ram and a GTX 770. This is a six year old (almost seven year old) graphics card.
 
Microsoft did confirm next gen consoles. Even if they release a low cost lockheart that is for streaming and 1440p/60fps resolution, wont it negate the purpose of xbox one x? If a consumer was to decide on what MS route to go: High End Scarlett, Mid Range Lockhart, Xbox One X, how would they differentiate? Versus Sony is saying there is only PS5 and there is no reason for you to hold on to ps4 and ps4pro and whatever you have for ps4 and ps4pro will transition to ps5 effortlessly.

I dont see Microsoft beating Sony for next gen but they will be a close second. Eventually MS will win because of streaming and their ecosystem several decades down the line. MS is thinking long term and playing the waiting game. I am not sure what Sonys long-term plans are several decades down the line. How many hardware refreshes do you need until connectivity (wifi6, wifi7, 5g, 6g) will dismantle the need for hardware refreshes and physical media?
 

ANIMAL1975

Member
When it get's dry people bring Digital Foundry, like it's wise to blow your credibility for a pay check.



:messenger_neutral:.........................................................................................................................................................................DAMN!
Breh... you're so full of it, that now... your bullshit detector... went over the roof, and now doesn't detect it anymore 😐
 
Regardless it will affect multiplatform development. For the last 2 gens consoles have always been a baseline and I don't see why this wouldn't be the case next gen. Microsoft just lowered the baseline.

Yes of course you can argue well Lokhart isn't going for 4k. Who is to say every game will be running native 4k. If Lokhart didn't exist we would have probably got some games running below 4k that push the graphics alot. But now that Lokhart exists they will target Lokhart and then just make PS5/Anaconda 4k native. Also it's more work for developers, more QA etc.

People saying if you are not happy with their vision get a PS5, well it will affect PS5 for multiplatform games as Lokhart is the new baseline. Developers are not just going to ignore a whole market.
Again, but not all games are developed like that. Even first party games like FH4 or GoW were talked about at length as being designed for the highest performing system and downscaled. EA has also said the same goes for Madden development. It is downscaled for the One OG and base PS4 model. Why would this not be the case here? We don't know what the baseline will be so to automatically assume the worst is less of a smash on MS and more of a personal choice until we know more.
 

bitbydeath

Gold Member
X is mid gen 4k console refresh that plays same games as Xbox S, at 4x the resolution.

Lockhart will be exact same console with -60% GPU TFLOPs that plays 1440p/1080p games instead or 4K from Anaconda.

The S is the 720P/1080P console.
 

pawel86ck

Banned
I'm not so sure if 4TF Navi would match 6TF Polaris and therefore run xbox x games. This must be a joke or something😀.

And BTW. consoles are cheap anyway, so 100$ less is not a big difference. If someone cant afford spending 100$ more for the next 8 years investment, then how these people want to pay for games?
 
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It's obvious by your username your paradigm of thought. We will all be back when the reveals come out lol don't be surprised when Sony's machine is stronger. Can it happen the other way? Yes but I don't think it will idgaf what Phil or arm chair analyst fans say they are not in Sony's corporate meetings, nor know what thy are aiming for. Doesn't help their theary when Microsoft has been so full of crap and blew hot air in consumers face with many things in the past. They don't get benefit of doubt from me.
Would be lovely to have a more powerful Sony console (since it's what i would buy anyway) gotta be objective here don't act like a fanboy, you have no proof that Sony is more powerful than MS so chill out, wait for the reveal before claiming stuff, i don't know why you say that they are not in Sony's corporate meetings (nobody said that btw) you acting like you are in those meetings hence the rage, nobody cares about you giving them the benefit of doubt, this is business, anything can happen.
If Sony has a more powerful console = good.
If MS has a more powerful console guess what it's still good, just don't cry about it and be objective.
Scarlett - 8K
Lol back at it again.
 

vpance

Member
I still don't get how is this "surprising" Sony or catching them off-guard, since a lower specced console is not going to impact their strategy significantly. At most, Sony will try to market their console as the mid-tier compromise between price and power.

It's doubtful this was done as some 4D chess thing. If what we keep hearing about power levels being very similar it's probably just a decision borne out of the desire to win at least on one front for certain at launch, as in price.

And I don't think a sandwiching of Sony like with a $599 Scarlett would fly. People will just go for the middle ground, or whatever has the best value in price/perf.
 

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
I'm not so sure if 4TF Navi would match 6TF Polaris and therefore run xbox x games. This must be a joke or something😀.

And BTW. consoles are cheap anyway, so 100$ less is not a big difference. If someone cant afford spending 100$ more for the next 8 years, then how many 60$ games people like that will buy? Not many.
it will be a $200 gap. A 12-14 tflops PS5 with a 1-2 tb SSD will not be $399. Sony is targeting $499.

This weak shithole of a console will be 4 tflops and so weak it wouldnt require any vapor chamber cooling. That will save them money. No UHD disc drive will save them money. small SSD will save them money. small form factor will save them money. Less RAM and a smaller APU will save them over a hundred alone.

It will be a $300 console, maybe $250. going up against a $499 PS5. worst case scenario, sony ends up downgrading their console to launch at $399.
 

pawel86ck

Banned
it will be a $200 gap. A 12-14 tflops PS5 with a 1-2 tb SSD will not be $399. Sony is targeting $499.

This weak shithole of a console will be 4 tflops and so weak it wouldnt require any vapor chamber cooling. That will save them money. No UHD disc drive will save them money. small SSD will save them money. small form factor will save them money. Less RAM and a smaller APU will save them over a hundred alone.

It will be a $300 console, maybe $250. going up against a $499 PS5. worst case scenario, sony ends up downgrading their console to launch at $399.
200$ less should be a good deal for unemployed people I guess, but 200$ more is still not a big deal for me, and I'm not rich by any means. MS should want to make money on people who have money, not people who will not buy games anyway.
 
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Yep.
X1S - 720P
X1X - 1440P
Lockhart - 4K
Scarlett - 8K

I am pretty confident that the whole 8K talk from both Microsoft/Sony means it will be able to play 8K video not that the games are going to be in 8K, I still just have my fingers crossed for native 4K @ 60fps on games, and that is probably going to be a big maybe seeing that they are both going to have hardware raytracing going on. I don't expect any game to go beyond 4K this next gen, that is unless you want to play Tetris in all its 8K glory!
 

nowhat

Member
I am pretty confident that the whole 8K talk from both Microsoft/Sony means it will be able to play 8K video not that the games are going to be in 8K
And also if you get a fancy new 8K TV the OS and the UI/HUD in games is rendered at native 8K (many Pro games do this, the actual game may be sub-4K but UI and HUD are native 4K). Actual games in 8K, I don't see that happening.
 

R600

Banned
Anaconda/PS5 4k high settings or 2k checker board with crazy graphics.

Lockhart 1440p or 1080p medium.

This is not 2000 or 2005, there are no VMUs or SPEs/Unified Shaders. Its all gona be the same tech just scalled up/down.

Concern trolling is getting out of hand tbh. If Xbox with 1.3TF didnt limit RDR2 to be best looking game this gen, then there is no fear.
 
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