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[NoLootBoxDev]

xbox10.com is already purchased.

 

[LordOfChaos]

Since there's so much news we're talking Xbox naming now: Did anyone watch the Apple WWDC keynote? Super reading into it time but Apple events are all about Kremlinology: Anyone notice that Tim specifically called out "Looks like there's a lot of Playstation fans out there" when mentioning DS4 controller support for ATV? Just reacting to an audience cheer is one thing, but they'd rarely do so for a competitor. Maybe Sony will have support for streaming to it at their coming conference, whether that's cloud gaming on it or streaming from a local PS4/5. iOS already has remote play so why not ATV.

Apple Events

Watch the latest Apple event stream, and check out the archive of special event announcements for our products and services.

www.apple.com

 

[nowhat]

Just reacting to an audience cheer is one thing, but they'd rarely do so for a competitor.

Let's be honest, there were people cheering for a $999 stand for a $4999 monitor. That's hardly indicative of anything.

 

[LordOfChaos]

Let's be honest, there were people cheering for a $999 stand for a $4999 monitor. That's hardly indicative of anything.

It's not the cheer that was interesting, it was Tim mentioning one specific competitive company when they mentioned two controllers supported. They rarely mention other companies in a positive light unless they're working together on something, especially where they have competitive products.

And there was more silence if not stifled laughter/horror at the 999 stand lol

 

[alabtrosMyster]

Let's be honest, there were people cheering for a $999 stand for a $4999 monitor. That's hardly indicative of anything.

What, that seems like a fair price for such a great stand, it's obviously the best monitor stand I have ever seen.

 

[SonGoku]

Bloodborne is due to framepacing. It is actually skipping frames and trying to run higher than the 30 cap I believe. From needs to fix their shit, honestly.

I will commend MS on this, they actually give a fuck unlike Sony
If this was MS they would have sent a team over to help FS fix the issue.

 

[Stuart360]

So a couple of years into next gen and XB1 and PS4 are phazed out, anyone think the X and Pro will carry on getting cut down versions of next gen games?. I think its possible, for the X anyway.

 

[LordOfChaos]

I will commend MS on this, they actually give a fuck unlike Sony
If this was MS they would have sent a team over to help FS fix the issue.

I dunno what it is man, even publishing under Activision didn't change their frame pacing issue at all even if Sony/Japan Studio didn't care enough to lend a hand. Maybe it's something so core to their engine that a team their size doesn't have the resources to refactor yet.

Honestly would it be so bad if they gave up their proprietary janky engine and adopted any of the good licenced ones? This still looks like a DREAM to me

 

[SonGoku]

Honestly would it be so bad if they gave up their proprietary janky engine and adopted any of the good licenced ones?

That would be a dream, its not like FS needs their own dedicated engine to push graphics

 

[Fake]

I guess is because Sony don't want to push From Software so much at the point of create fight between those two. Look at Seriko and you will still see the problem from Bloodborne.

 

[Lacix]

I’m sure it’s tied for either that or-
Xbox4KU

Xbox four K you?

 

[bitbydeath]

Xbox four K you?

Xbox fourk you

 

[NickFire]

So a couple of years into next gen and XB1 and PS4 are phazed out, anyone think the X and Pro will carry on getting cut down versions of next gen games?. I think its possible, for the X anyway.

I suspect all of them will, even the current base units, until it stops being profitable or is not possible.

 

[Fake]

Xbox Millennium
Xbox XP
Xbox 97
Xbox Vista

 

[DeepEnigma]

I will commend MS on this, they actually give a fuck unlike Sony
If this was MS they would have sent a team over to help FS fix the issue.

This happens in all their games, on all platforms. Something about their engine probably. They need to overhaul it or license one.

 

[Negotiator]

PlayStation 5's Beefier Hardware Could Help Mitigate Indies' Optimization Troubles, Says Ubisoft Dev

The powerful hardware of the PlayStation 5 could indirectly help mitigate the troubles indie developers often have with optimization.

wccftech.com

Indie games are usually CPU-bound (Unity engine, single-threading), so this article makes sense.

Zen 2 CPU will be a boon to them.

On the other hand, many AAA games already use custom, multi-threaded engines and the Jaguar -> Zen 2 leap will allow them to offer more sophisticated AI, more NPCs and hopefully 60 fps too.

It's not the cheer that was interesting, it was Tim mentioning one specific competitive company when they mentioned two controllers supported. They rarely mention other companies in a positive light unless they're working together on something, especially where they have competitive products.

And there was more silence if not stifled laughter/horror at the 999 stand lol

Well, I don't think iPhone is competing against PlayStation/XBOX, but I could possibly see yet another "alliance" (Sony/MS/Apple) forming against Google Stadia (PS5/XB2 streaming on iOS devices, if that's what you meant to say).

So a couple of years into next gen and XB1 and PS4 are phazed out, anyone think the X and Pro will carry on getting cut down versions of next gen games?. I think its possible, for the X anyway.

Nope, XB1X CPU (Jaguar @ 2.3 GHz) won't hold a candle to Lockhart Zen 2 CPU @ 3.2 GHz.

5x difference is too much, unless you're happy with a premium machine running next-gen games at 12 fps (60 / 5).

Lockhart will be cheaper AND faster. The only downside: no optical disc drive.

That would be a dream, its not like FS needs their own dedicated engine to push graphics

Days Gone adopted UE4 and we all know the results.

It's a matter of technical expertise. FS or Bend just cannot compete against the likes of ND, Santa Monica, GG, Insomniac etc.

Maybe ICE Team should give them a lending hand? That was the norm back in the PS3 era.

I suspect all of them will, even the current base units, until it stops being profitable or is not possible.

All of them will get cross-gen/current-gen games, but not true next-gen games (like GTA6). The leap will be enormous for Jaguar to handle.

 

[Kirilen]

What, that seems like a fair price for such a great stand, it's obviously the best monitor stand I have ever seen.


Hello. Apple monitors are expensive and I purchased the Acer Predator x27 monitor, this monitor is not inferior to the Apple Monitor, but much cheaper. To this monitor, I purchased a mount, it cost me $ 60. It is available for my wallet. I am pleased with the monitor and monitor mount https://whatever-tech.com/best-single-monitor-stand-review/.

 

[TLZ]

Xbox 4U

Xbox R Us.

Xbox Philly Cheese Steak.

How would we feel about the nexbox box being white?

Honestly, I'd like to see a red console for a change.

 

[Fake]

Xbox RDNA

 

[SonGoku]

CPUs on pc run at higher frequencies and can be much beefier. Pc overhead is not that big that consoles get pseudo-100% advantage.

Youl would still need double the CPU grunt to double the frame rate on pc

 

[Aceofspades]

If MS ended up mentioning comparative power multipliers to old xbox like Thurott.com suggested, that means that they lost the power advantage to PS5 or the TF number is very minimal.
MS is the type to shout any advantages they have over the the highest mountain.

The article suggested:
Anaconda: 2x One X
Lockhart: 4x One

Some crazy speculation suggested Ana is 4x One X at 24 TF looooool

 

[DemonCleaner]

We back to Cell2 7nm secret sauce, on PS5 for retro; some discussion on emulation possibilities for Zen2 if the sauce vaporize, and then full fat 180 for original Cell wars. Welcome back!

sounds kinda cool

 

[DemonCleaner]

We learn that NAVI don't use GCN, instead a new archi called RDNA.
First desktops Navi GPU will not have RT, unlike the custom NAVI on PS5.

the first point i did still catch.
on the second: is both really official now?

 

[DemonCleaner]

I like Xbox Prime

yeah that and xbox infinite are my favs

 

[TeamGhobad]

The article suggested:
Anaconda: 2x One X
Lockhart: 4x One

thats not what it said. it said 4x for anaconda and 2x for lockhart. and didn't specify what. brad sams really needs to clarify this.

 

[CyberPanda]

thats not what it said. it said 4x for anaconda and 2x for lockhart. and didn't specify what. brad sams really needs to clarify this.

He did on Reee I think.

 

[TeamGhobad]

He did on Reee I think.

what did he say? im not going over there.

 

[CyberPanda]

what did he say? im not going over there.

I just went there and regretted it. So much stupidity.. And, I have to go through ten pages at least to find his post. Fuck that lol

 

[TeamGhobad]

I just went there and regretted it. So much stupidity.. And, I have to go through ten pages at least to find his post. Fuck that lol

4x over S for lockhart and 2x over X for anaconda makes sense. but its kinda disappointing.

 

[Orenji Neko]

Youl would still need double the CPU grunt to double the frame rate on pc

Eh? That's not how that works. The game's performance is dependent on a combination of CPU and GPU, and on PC the lean is much heavier into the GPU. Doom 2016 runs at an average of 90+FPS on a Lattepanda with a modest, low power usage CPU when mated to a strong graphics card at 4K on Ultra settings, which the current consoles or their Pro/X versions can't even do: they are stuck at 60 and do not have 1:1 detail quality with PC Ultra.

No modern CPU within the past 5 years, and certainly not moving forward, is going to bottleneck a very capable GPU into missing the 60FPS mark. People who use low end cards might see this issue, but they were knowingly accepting that already; they aren't trying to eclipse 60, they were looking for a tradeoff in price and performance while still being at/above console performance.

Still, that's only 60FPS. Performance oriented PC gamers like myself prefer to go well over 60; we don't invest in good hardware and 144+hz monitors just for 60 frames per second. The only games that come out for the PS5 and Xbox whatever-it-ends-up-being-called that won't run at 60+ FPS on a decent PC are the games that don't actually come out on the PC.

The Zen 2 isn't some magic bullet, and it's not even console exclusive; it's a line of CPUs that will also be cheaply available for PC (and of course there will be Zen 3, and whatever Intel has coming); couple that with a mid/high end card and, as before, there isn't any problem hitting only 60FPS. 60 might be a big deal on consoles but eh, not so much on PC; that's kind of our baseline of acceptability unless you are really just trying to squeeze by on a very weak system. Still though, a PC isn't going to need a Zen 2 to have double the 30 frames of a console; it only needs a decent CPU and mid/high end graphics card. Now double 60? That's a different story, but then we are back to the PC enthusiast circle where we already pay and build to do that so for us, that's just a given, and that's also point that just gets cheaper and easier as time goes on, more hardware comes out; all those kinds of things that are unique to PC gaming and don't apply to static console boxes.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Eh? That's not how that works. The game's performance is dependent on a combination of CPU and GPU, and on PC the lean is much heavier into the GPU. Doom 2016 runs at an average of 90+FPS on a Lattepanda with a modest, low power usage CPU when mated to a strong graphics card at 4K on Ultra settings, which the current consoles or their Pro/X versions can't even do: they are stuck at 60 and do not have 1:1 detail quality with PC Ultra.

No modern CPU within the past 5 years, and certainly not moving forward, is going to bottleneck a very capable GPU into missing the 60FPS mark. People who use low end cards might see this issue, but they were knowingly accepting that already; they aren't trying to eclipse 60, they were looking for a tradeoff in price and performance while still being at/above console performance.

Still, that's only 60FPS. Performance oriented PC gamers like myself prefer to go well over 60; we don't invest in good hardware and 144+hz monitors just for 60 frames per second. The only games that come out for the PS5 and Xbox whatever-it-ends-up-being-called that won't run at 60+ FPS on a decent PC are the games that don't actually come out on the PC.

The Zen 2 isn't some magic bullet, and it's not even console exclusive; it's a line of CPUs that will also be cheaply available for PC (and of course there will be Zen 3, and whatever Intel has coming); couple that with a mid/high end card and, as before, there isn't any problem hitting only 60FPS. 60 might be a big deal on consoles but eh, not so much on PC; that's kind of our baseline of acceptability unless you are really just trying to squeeze by on a very weak system. Still though, a PC isn't going to need a Zen 2 to have double the 30 frames of a console; it only needs a decent CPU and mid/high end graphics card. Now double 60? That's a different story, but then we are back to the PC enthusiast circle where we already pay and build to do that so for us, that's just a given, and that's also point that just gets cheaper and easier as time goes on, more hardware comes out; all those kinds of things that are unique to PC gaming and don't apply to static console boxes.

If the game is CPU limited and if it hits 30 FPS on the console Zen 2, getting a home PC to push it to 60 FPS will be challenging. Period . Not sure why it is controversial?

 

[FranXico]

I will commend MS on this, they actually give a fuck unlike Sony
If this was MS they would have sent a team over to help FS fix the issue.

The "losing team" is usually pretty pro-active with third-party devs. In the PS3 days, Sony also sent out devs and used first party studios to help with 3rd party games. Heck, they even wrote an engine for them (Phyre Engine).

 

[Orenji Neko]

If the game is CPU limited and if it hits 30 FPS on the console Zen 2, getting a home PC to push it to 60 FPS will be challenging. Period . Not sure why it is controversial?

Again, that's not how it works. It's a combination of the CPU and the GPU. It's not controversial or hard to understand because this is like common knowledge. Even CPU's that bottleneck a powerful GPU don't cost it as many frames as if it was a very powerful CPU and a bargain GPU.

 

[Geki-D]

I will commend MS on this, they actually give a fuck unlike Sony
If this was MS they would have sent a team over to help FS fix the issue.

? Bloodborne was actually made in partnership with Sony and Sony are known to send out teams to help devs...

 

[molly14]

Eh? That's not how that works. The game's performance is dependent on a combination of CPU and GPU, and on PC the lean is much heavier into the GPU. Doom 2016 runs at an average of 90+FPS on a Lattepanda with a modest, low power usage CPU when mated to a strong graphics card at 4K on Ultra settings, which the current consoles or their Pro/X versions can't even do: they are stuck at 60 and do not have 1:1 detail quality with PC Ultra.

No modern CPU within the past 5 years, and certainly not moving forward, is going to bottleneck a very capable GPU into missing the 60FPS mark. People who use low end cards might see this issue, but they were knowingly accepting that already; they aren't trying to eclipse 60, they were looking for a tradeoff in price and performance while still being at/above console performance.

Still, that's only 60FPS. Performance oriented PC gamers like myself prefer to go well over 60; we don't invest in good hardware and 144+hz monitors just for 60 frames per second. The only games that come out for the PS5 and Xbox whatever-it-ends-up-being-called that won't run at 60+ FPS on a decent PC are the games that don't actually come out on the PC.

The Zen 2 isn't some magic bullet, and it's not even console exclusive; it's a line of CPUs that will also be cheaply available for PC (and of course there will be Zen 3, and whatever Intel has coming); couple that with a mid/high end card and, as before, there isn't any problem hitting only 60FPS. 60 might be a big deal on consoles but eh, not so much on PC; that's kind of our baseline of acceptability unless you are really just trying to squeeze by on a very weak system. Still though, a PC isn't going to need a Zen 2 to have double the 30 frames of a console; it only needs a decent CPU and mid/high end graphics card. Now double 60? That's a different story, but then we are back to the PC enthusiast circle where we already pay and build to do that so for us, that's just a given, and that's also point that just gets cheaper and easier as time goes on, more hardware comes out; all those kinds of things that are unique to PC gaming and don't apply to static console boxes.

So basically forget about buying the new playstation or xbox and just buy a new pc is what you are saying is it tnot,as they can never compete with the mighty all conquering PC

 

[nowhat]

? Bloodborne was actually made in partnership with Sony and Sony are known to send out teams to help devs...

Not to mention framepacing issues still exist (across all platforms) in other From titles like Sekiro.

 

[Orenji Neko]

So basically forget about buying the new playstation or xbox and just buy a new pc is what you are saying is it tnot,as they can never compete with the mighty all conquering PC

What I said has nothing to do with buying a console or buying a PC and doesn't even suggest one or the other, it's about a technical discussion.

 

[ANIMAL1975]

sounds kinda cool

Nah, it was a bloodbath... i can still see their faces,... the lifeless eyes... every night i see their faces in my dreams.

 

[TeamGhobad]

This is the slowest week of my life.

 

[TLZ]

4x over S for lockhart and 2x over X for anaconda makes sense. but its kinda disappointing.

12TF isn't bad though, with all the other tech advancements.

 

[TeamGhobad]

12TF isn't bad though, with all the other tech advancements.

i guess not, but its not very surprising. i want to be dazzled.

 

[Ar¢tos]

i guess not, but its not very surprising. i want to be dazzled.

I'm expecting 11-12tf. Its the perfect spot of thermals/power/price ratio.

 

[ResilientBanana]

Xbox

4x over S for lockhart and 2x over X for anaconda makes sense. but its kinda disappointing.

As I said in another thread, that puts the S at 5.6TF and the X at 12TF. With the enhancements that RDNA brings, doesn’t this allow Lockhart to perform very similar to the 6TF XOX? If so, that would allow next gen graphics at 1440p/60. Anaconda would certainly allow those same graphics to run at 4K/60.

 

[Darius87]

Again, that's not how it works. It's a combination of the CPU and the GPU. It's not controversial or hard to understand because this is like common knowledge. Even CPU's that bottleneck a powerful GPU don't cost it as many frames as if it was a very powerful CPU and a bargain GPU.

There's way to campare it(not best way but still) assuming GPU isn't bottleneck on any system, PS4 jaguar is around 3600 in passmark using all cores(original cpu is bobcat 2 cores is 760 something in passmark so 760 * 4 + ipc improvment so roughly 3600)
now let's check minimum and recommended CPU for games that available for pc and ps4:

Game	Recommended CPU	Passmark	Difference vs jaguar 3600	Min Required CPU	Passmark	Difference vs jaguar 3600
Rage 2	i7 - 4470 / Ryzen 5 1600X	9780 / 13220	< 271 % / 367 %	i5 - 3570 / Ryzen 3 1300X	7129 / 7502	< 198 % / 208 %
Resident Evil 2	i7 - 3770 / AMD FX - 9590	9280 / 10189	< 257 % / 283 %	i5 - 4460 / FX-6300	6716 / 6387	< 186 % / 177 %
Shadow Of Tomb Raider	i7 -4770K / Ryzen 5 1600	10077 / 12283	< 279 % / 341 %	i3 - 3220	4243	< 117 %

min CPU is bit less then 2x increase over jaguar, but i don't think there's comparison playing min settings on pc vs ps4(which is around medium to high settings) and on recommended settings is around 2.5 to 3.5 increase over jaguar, so it's clearly that pc requires much more powerfull cpu over consoles just to play with same settings, with next- gen it's gonna be even worse.

 

[ethomaz]

thats not what it said. it said 4x for anaconda and 2x for lockhart. and didn't specify what. brad sams really needs to clarify this.

He changed that part with what you quoted.

“I have heard that Lockhart and Anaconda are targeting at least a 2x performance gain for the high-end (Anaconda) and 4x for the lower end hardware(Lockhart).”

You can read the article: https://www.thurrott.com/xbox/207904/microsofts-aims-to-set-the-bar-high-at-e3

 

[PaNaMa]

We're 4 days from Microsoft e3 show, and there's been nothing on new Xbox hardware beyond vague speculation from months gone by -Props to MS for keeping it under wraps, but I wish they'd drop a couple of tidbits to escalate their hype levels going in . I'm not feeling the christmas eve excitement I normally get in the days leading up to e3.

MS is in centre stage position to steal the show and make a big impression since their competition has bailed. Is *complete* silence the best way to build hype? Maybe. What do I know? In my admittedly jaded experience, utter silence is a reasonable strategy when consumer speculation/expectation exceeds the reality of the actual product about to be revealed. In which case, maybe MS doesn't want to pour water on what little hype there is by hinting what's coming isn't as good as people are hoping. (as you can tell I'm a guess I'm a glass half empty sort of guy).

 

[ResilientBanana]

We're 4 days from Microsoft e3 show, and there's been nothing on new Xbox hardware beyond vague speculation from months gone by -Props to MS for keeping it under wraps, but I wish they'd drop a couple of tidbits to escalate their hype levels going in . I'm not feeling the christmas eve excitement I normally get in the days leading up to e3.

MS is in centre stage position to steal the show and make a big impression since their competition has bailed. Is *complete* silence the best way to build hype? Maybe. What do I know? In my admittedly jaded experience, utter silence is a reasonable strategy when consumer speculation/expectation exceeds the reality of the actual product about to be revealed. In which case, maybe MS doesn't want to pour water on what little hype there is by hinting what's coming isn't as good as people are hoping. (as you can tell I'm a guess I'm a glass half empty sort of guy).

It's just the calm before the storm. A few things trickled out this week, but nothing too major. Xbox is going to own every headline come Sunday - Monday and beyond until Sony does some sort of reveal.

 

[ethomaz]

We're 4 days from Microsoft e3 show, and there's been nothing on new Xbox hardware beyond vague speculation from months gone by -Props to MS for keeping it under wraps, but I wish they'd drop a couple of tidbits to escalate their hype levels going in . I'm not feeling the christmas eve excitement I normally get in the days leading up to e3.

MS is in centre stage position to steal the show and make a big impression since their competition has bailed. Is *complete* silence the best way to build hype? Maybe. What do I know? In my admittedly jaded experience, utter silence is a reasonable strategy when consumer speculation/expectation exceeds the reality of the actual product about to be revealed. In which case, maybe MS doesn't want to pour water on what little hype there is by hinting what's coming isn't as good as people are hoping. (as you can tell I'm a guess I'm a glass half empty sort of guy).

Prepare to MS says Navi + Zen2 and nothing more just like Sony.

RAM amount, clocks, etc are the chess game between them.

 

[TeamGhobad]

What if MS created their own GPU...

 

[Panajev2001a]

Again, that's not how it works. It's a combination of the CPU and the GPU. It's not controversial or hard to understand because this is like common knowledge. Even CPU's that bottleneck a powerful GPU don't cost it as many frames as if it was a very powerful CPU and a bargain GPU.

That is how it works, that is how it has always worked. Each resource can bottleneck the others. It is a combination of both, but even in cases where you can offload computation it does not come for free and may require extensive re-engineering even where it is practically doable.