-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Next-gen Racing Graphics Face-off | (Next-gen means current-gen)
- Thread starter Gestault
- Start date
DynamiteCop!
Banned
I do the same, I think there's a bit of fun in all of this though and it merely highlights the differences in development.
phil_t98
#SonyToo
Where’s the fun in that? Lol to be fair we need threads like this and so do developers who make the games. Shows fans are passionate about these games. All good games but some of them are better in one area and others are better in another
estagiarioo
Neo Member
Post rationalization i
Forza looks superior in the rain. The track doesn't even look wet in GT, something is off...
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
No wonder Sony fans don't bring up GTS.
Not only did it take 2 years for PD to add rain, but it doesn't even looks like it's raining. Just some grey clouds. lol
Amazingly, DC looks better than Sony's flagship racer GT.
Last edited:
DynamiteCop!
Banned
It's actually 4 years, Forza Motorsport 6 introduced rain but who's counting.
GT5 had rain 9 years ago. Forza fans waited an entire generation while downplaying it. He is referring to GTS release date though.
DynamiteCop!
Banned
I thought we were talking about current-gen hence the thread title.
Gingen
Banned
Real
GTS
Real
GTS
GTS perfectly match the real wet conditions at SPA. FM7 with all those puddles on self-draining asphalt is simply fake
Last edited by a moderator:
Gingen
Banned
Part 2
- Car stopped trick to disable the TAA: Done
- Select the worst time of day possible in GTS: Done
- GTS Ultra compressed 4K jpg VS FM7 genuine PNG downsampled in 1080p: Done
- Carefully avoid areas unfavorable to FM7 (masses of crowd and/or 2D trees near the car): Done
- Ultra settings PC vs console: Done
And the new entry!
- GTS colors and contrast settings purposely tampered to make the game looks as washed out as possible: Done
This is his own screen with the colors and contrast fixed in post processing (as they normally appear in the game with the right parameters)
With washed out colours and contrast
With fixed colours and contrast (ingame looks better, specially with HDR on)
LOL
On those screens there is the full manual of the master level cherry picker
Last edited by a moderator:
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
You aren't doing yourself a favour in this comparison. The pic you prefer is like a rainbow.- Car stopped trick to disable the TAA: Done
- Select the worst time of day possible in GTS: Done
- GTS Ultra compressed 4K jpg VS FM7 genuine PNG downsampled in 1080p: Done
- Carefully avoid areas unfavorable to FM7 (masses of crowd and/or 2D trees near the car): Done
- Ultra settings PC vs console: Done
And the new entry!
- GTS colors and contrast settings purposely tampered to make the game looks as washed out as possible: Done
this is his own screen with only the colors and contrast fixed in post processing (as they normally appear in the game with right parameters)
With washed out colours and contrast
Without washed out colours and contrast
LOL
On those screens there is the full manual of the master level cherry picker
The red/yellow barrier on the right looks terrible. And the aliasing is atrocious. You can practically count the staircase pixels.
DynamiteCop!
Banned
Dude nobody cares about the AA, that's not what's being compared here, and even if it were why did they choose an AA method that doesn't hold up when static when they have such a push behind screen shots? He covered like 10 different places on the track and the time of day is nearly identical, look at the shadow casting and the sun shift. I can't believe how ridiculous you are being with excuse after excuse after excuse.- Car stopped trick to disable the TAA: Done
- Select the worst time of day possible in GTS: Done
- GTS Ultra compressed 4K jpg VS FM7 genuine PNG downsampled in 1080p: Done
- Carefully avoid areas unfavorable to FM7 (masses of crowd and/or 2D trees near the car): Done
- Ultra settings PC vs console: Done
And the new entry!
- GTS colors and contrast settings purposely tampered to make the game looks as washed out as possible: Done
This is his own screen with the colors and contrast fixed in post processing (as they normally appear in the game with the right parameters)
With washed out colours and contrast
With fixed colours and contrast (ingame looks better, specially with HDR on)
LOL
On those screens there is the full manual of the master level cherry picker
If you really want to push this narrative I'm going to bury you with it, it won't be hard so for your sake I'd suggest dialing back the crazy.
Bogroll
Likes moldy games
If its self draining why is there spray coming from the rear of the Ferrari, not saying its not and also it looks like it's stopped raining, The others are poor quality and in real life when it's raining you do get a lot of reflections in the rain and they don't need to be pools of water at unless it's light rain.
DynamiteCop!
Banned
It's not self draining as he would lead you on, water pools at the rumble strips and low points in the track. Turn 10 actually sends people to these tracks, they laser scan them, they do topography, they study the track during rain storms and map the pooling.
There's a reason these games don't just have dynamic weather systems and it's all quite stringently controlled, it's based on real data and coded as such.
Nope, it's because Forza's engine doesn't support it and wasn't built for it (they introduced it shortly after the dynamic rain in Drivrclub buzz. Forzas engine has a lot of baked in components, shadows, lightning, and the compromise was to load in and transition the different weather and lighting at specific parts of the track back then) and GTS doesn't either because of its baked global Illumination system called Iris. Hopefully next gen Forza M will have it and GTS' GI lighting can be done dynamically on next gen consoles.
Bonus videos of rain
GTS (PS4)
FM7 (PC Ultra settings)
FH4 (PC Ultra framerate drops setting)
Last edited:
Gingen
Banned
The "pic I prefer" (???) is a cherry picking pic by your friend. I only tried to show how he purposely woshed out colors and contrast tampering the video settings of the game
The only game that looks like a rainbow is FM7 with his cartoonish color palette
Last edited by a moderator:
Bogroll
Likes moldy games
I'll post a picture later if I can, what are the settings etc and then we'll see who's been tampering.
transformer
Member
The picture you posted looked altered, or an incorrect color palette. Very oversaturated which is not somethign GT is known for. The original "cherry picked" picture looked much better and showcases the realistic lighting in GTS.
DynamiteCop!
Banned
What do you mean it doesn't support it? The Forzatech engine has supported dynamic weather systems since Forza Horizon 2 in September of 2014 which is 3 months before Driveclub had any weather to speak of added to the game. The engine development is a rolling collaboration between Turn 10 and Playground Games, they have unfiltered access to all the same tools and engine tech. All the Horizon games have dynamic weather systems, dynamic ToD, it's not as if Turn 10 can't do these things they simple choose not to.
It doesn't have dynamic weather because it's something they want to be hand tuned and controlled as they see fit.
Last edited:
Turk1993
GAFs #1 source for car graphic comparisons
STFU you delusional troll, i didn't edit antyhing they are all png with as close as possible tod & weather. You are just a blind troll who can't take it that his plastic box can't produce better looking games than the competition. By oversaturating the picture you made it even worse, you are soo blind that you can't even see the good lighting in GTS in those pictures. You just blindy attack people that show proper comparison. Also its a track comparison, why the fuck would anybody drive in a comparison about a fucking track. You are just stupid really its beyond trolling now. Grow the fuck up, stop this childish trolling!- Car stopped trick to disable the TAA: Done
- Select the worst time of day possible in GTS: Done
- GTS Ultra compressed 4K jpg VS FM7 genuine PNG downsampled in 1080p: Done
- Carefully avoid areas unfavorable to FM7 (masses of crowd and/or 2D trees near the car): Done
- Ultra settings PC vs console: Done
And the new entry!
- GTS colors and contrast settings purposely tampered to make the game looks as washed out as possible: Done
This is his own screen with the colors and contrast fixed in post processing (as they normally appear in the game with the right parameters)
With washed out colours and contrast
With fixed colours and contrast (ingame looks better, specially with HDR on)
LOL
On those screens there is the full manual of the master level cherry picker
really nice you found some random clips online of laggy Forza on some dudes old computer and you say super laggy mode smh
. Just for once be fair, there are 1000s of clips of FH4 with rain on a proper high end machine that looks miels better than that at a locked 60fps. The only video you find is from a dude with 30 subs and 30 views wich are probably 20 views from here, and its doesn't state anywhere thats its ultra on pc.They know it but they act like it doesn't excist lol.
More like it's amazing that you took offense at me posting a video of some rain I found on my commute because I made a tongue in cheek comment that the settings are unknown but he probably should have lowered it. If there is some better easily found video post it and stop acting like I dissed your firstborn. Anybody with half a brain knows that his PC couldn't handle it. Does the rain look real though?
really nice you found some random clips online of laggy Forza on some dudes old computer and you say super laggy mode smh
They know it but they act like it doesn't excist lol.
Last edited:
No you're wrong it's not dynamic in Fora Motorsport because a lot of things are baked. If you change weather settings it requires a reload. Try it. Also old FH was the same. Weather and time are also tied to your position in FM. If you sit in a race and let time pass it doesn't begin to rain. If you hit a specific point in the track on that same race it changes which makes pit strategies pointless. If you need some evidence of the baked in nature of the tracks being loaded I can provide some for you.
Last edited:
DynamiteCop!
Banned
Who is talking about a race in regard to Forza Horizon? You, because you're trying to disqualify the scenario. When out in the world just driving around in the Horizon games the weather and ToD is fully dynamic. As stated previously the races are hand crafted, they're setup exactly as intended.
Does that mean they couldn't be dynamic? Does that mean the systems in the engine do not exist? No, it means they chose personal crafting over the race systems instead of allowing them to fall on dynamic randoms. There's intention behind their designs, and as far as Motorsport is concerned the weather is reliant on real world data from each track it is present on.
Last edited:
well nobody was talking about Forza horizon to begin with. You said we don't have fully dynamic weather in FM/GTS because it's based on real data and coded as such. I'm telling you that's bullshit. Just because it's the same engine it doesn't mean the weather implemented is the same. They employ different techniques and aim for different framerates. FM bakes a lot of its effects in. shadows don't move with the set time transitions. All lighting is baked in (in fact there was a XBX bug regarding this recently) There isn't a full night day day night cycle on all tracks. It's because it's all baked and loaded. It's why changing any of it requires a reload of the track rather than just simply transitioning to it.
TheAdmiester
Member
I think it actually doesn't have dynamic weather because of the base Xbox One, they don't want to sacrifice the locked 60FPS for it on Motorsport, but they have the processing budget to spend on fully dynamic time and weather in Horizon since it's 30FPS (on console).
Other than that you're completely correct, both share the Forzatech engine so it's absolutely possible in both, it was just gutted in FM7. I'm almost certain FM8 will debut with fully dynamic systems like FH, owing to the extra dev time and (probably) the Scarlett, and hopefully dropping the base console.
DynamiteCop!
Banned
They're on record as stating with Forza Motorsport 7 they have about a 10% GPU surplus remaining on the base Xbox One.
Last edited:
Gingen
Banned
First of all, why is this troll allowed to offend? where are the mods of this forum?
Secondly: "they are all png!!!11!!!!!"
it's sufficient to read the file extension of the files that you've posted to see that you are a liar
now just look at the level of compression of your GTS screenshots
Above The tag heuer HUD logo from your screenshot, under how the same logo looks on a not compressed screenshot
all the other tricks that you use are already proven.
goodbye troll
Last edited by a moderator:
You really know how to FIX GTS' visuals.This is his own screen with the colors and contrast fixed in post processing (as they normally appear in the game with the right parameters)
With washed out colours and contrast
With fixed colours and contrast (ingame looks better, specially with HDR on)
Polyphony digital would be proud of your skill)
Turk1993
GAFs #1 source for car graphic comparisons
Whas this not easier to find with 2.5 mill views? but whatever.
Also for everybody watch that video it really shows the beauty of Forza Horizon 4
First of i didn't know that imgur converted my 4K photo's over 10mb to jpeg, i just search for it and its true, so only Flickr allows 4k 10mb+ png. Secondly the compression is almost none visible if any, and all your last 4k uploaded pics are also jpeg. And the other trolly pic of Forza you posted whas also jpeg and you even used low setting photomode so stop crying again. The image you posted here above are from different pictures with different backgrounds where you edit one. Go ahead and show me the same place and time and location with the same car, come on i dare you, upload it in 4k with png in gameplay.First of all, why is this troll allowed to offend? where are the mods of this forum?
Secondly: "they are all png!!!11!!!!!"
it's sufficient to read the file extension of the files that you've posted to see that you are a liar
now just look at the level of compression of your GTS screenshots
Above The tag heuer HUD logo from your screenshot, under how the same logo looks on a not compressed screenshot
all the other tricks that you use are already proven.
goodbye troll
The level of detail of the GTS car models is insane. I don't care what the GT haters say: these are the real GTS full lod car models, and are all ready to use on PS5. All the rest are cherry picking screenshots by people that can't accept that the car models of their favourite game are light years back.
This is the new Mercedes-Benz 300 SEL 6.8 AMG '71
Mattyp
Gold Member
With fixed colours and contrast (ingame looks better, specially with HDR on)
You literally made it look fucking worse, do you honestly need an eye check up? Did you really just click auto-colour and auto-contrast in photoshop and think that would give you a better result? Fuck me drunk.
Because I searched 'Forza Horizon 4 rain replay' it was the top search result yours isn't the same or what was searched for. A ten second segment in an hour long video in chase cam. I bet it didn't even show when you searched rain. Whatever indeed.
Last edited:
thelastword
Banned
GTS's models have no equal.......These cars could easily be used for GT7, but knowing Kaz, he will classify this as last gen even if other racers are not there yet......The level of detail of the GTS car models is insane. I don't care what the GT haters say: these are the real GTS full lod car models, and are all ready to use on PS5. All the rest are cherry picking screenshots by people that can't accept that the car models of their favourite game are light years back.
This is the new Mercedes-Benz 300 SEL 6.8 AMG '71
Great shots, dusk that looks like dusk..….Night that looks like night, with perfect lighting and tones...….Not nightlime like in Forza that looks pitch black with some cartoonish looking cars being projected through a few area/point lights......Yes, but only on the cherry picking pics of your friends
This stuff with HDR enabled (top class HDR) looks incredible. Sadly you can't see HDR on screenshots
Now I go to enjoy SPA and the new cars, while the GT haters continue to look for all the ugliest corners and all the tricks to misrepresent this wonderful game
He has been doing that from the time he entered this thread, posting disingenuous shots is his modus operandi.....Actually pages of his disigenuos photos were deleted by mods after I called him out on it, in his hey day......but I guess he has been allowed full reign again....- Car stopped trick to disable the TAA: Done
- Select the worst time of day possible in GTS: Done
- GTS Ultra compressed 4K jpg VS FM7 genuine PNG downsampled in 1080p: Done
- Carefully avoid areas unfavorable to FM7 (masses of crowd and/or 2D trees near the car): Done
- Ultra settings PC vs console: Done
And the new entry!
- GTS colors and contrast settings purposely tampered to make the game looks as washed out as possible: Done
This is his own screen with the colors and contrast fixed in post processing (as they normally appear in the game with the right parameters)
With washed out colours and contrast
With fixed colours and contrast (ingame looks better, specially with HDR on)
LOL
On those screens there is the full manual of the master level cherry picker
Forza lacks great models in-game, great shading, proper occlusions, reflections as good as GT and missing many real-time features present in GTS...….Forza's ATD is several leagues below GTS....If you can see this in screens, you will balk when you see the two side by side in motion.....
My goodness, this guy has been doing this from day 1...….Actually it was one of the first things I called him out on, he is still doing this, even if he was already warned by mods......He also used to post only photomode shots for Forza PNG style vs JPG GTS pics in-game......Go back to this thread when said poster started posting in this thread, you will see...First of all, why is this troll allowed to offend? where are the mods of this forum?
Secondly: "they are all png!!!11!!!!!"
it's sufficient to read the file extension of the files that you've posted to see that you are a liar
now just look at the level of compression of your GTS screenshots
Above The tag heuer HUD logo from your screenshot, under how the same logo looks on a not compressed screenshot
all the other tricks that you use are already proven.
goodbye troll
----------
Anyway, it's about time I posted some shots, even though I prefer videos......I will try to post some a bit later if I get the time....
Folks, love the passion in here but we're not about to arbitrate what seems to be a contentious debate/argument about legitimacy. Understandably there will points of contention or suspicions that participants will be using every trick in the book to lend more credence to their side of the argument. However, we will remove people from the thread (temporarily) if the tone and respect of exchanges doesn't improve. Various posters have overstepped these lines in the last page or so, however to remove someone now, would be taking an action just to take an action which we feel would be counter productive. I'd prefer to just draw a line under the above, dust ourselves off and restart the exchange.
After reviewing the posts on this page, it's clear you folks go really in depth on the finer detail and the thread is one many other members enjoy reading because of your input. I'd suggest - between yourselves - establishing a baseline of comparison for such screenshots, and both adhering to those self moderated rules. Focus your efforts not on disproving each other, but evidencing your point so well and completely that those reading can attest to the conclusion you reach and are swayed to your side of the argument. Please bear in mind that some mistakes are honest as well and not an insidious attempt to hoodwink the other side.
Believe us we know frustration descends at times, we know tone and sarcasm is difficult to read in text. But let's not forget the commonality. We're all in here, poring over the absolute extremes of fidelity, design and models. There's no need to get in such a polarised mindset, let's just be appreciative of where we are and the different approaches and sacrifices that each game makes
After reviewing the posts on this page, it's clear you folks go really in depth on the finer detail and the thread is one many other members enjoy reading because of your input. I'd suggest - between yourselves - establishing a baseline of comparison for such screenshots, and both adhering to those self moderated rules. Focus your efforts not on disproving each other, but evidencing your point so well and completely that those reading can attest to the conclusion you reach and are swayed to your side of the argument. Please bear in mind that some mistakes are honest as well and not an insidious attempt to hoodwink the other side.
Believe us we know frustration descends at times, we know tone and sarcasm is difficult to read in text. But let's not forget the commonality. We're all in here, poring over the absolute extremes of fidelity, design and models. There's no need to get in such a polarised mindset, let's just be appreciative of where we are and the different approaches and sacrifices that each game makes
Gingen
Banned
OMG, that is not a new screenshot from GTS, is just the same screenshot with contast edited on the fly TO GIVE THE IDEA of what I was talking about. If you want too se the real colors and contrast of the game (in SDR) I've already posted other screenshots here https://www.neogaf.com/threads/next...t-gen-means-current-gen.823807/post-255801385
Last edited by a moderator:
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Agreed.Folks, love the passion in here but we're not about to arbitrate what seems to be a contentious debate/argument about legitimacy. Understandably there will points of contention or suspicions that participants will be using every trick in the book to lend more credence to their side of the argument. However, we will remove people from the thread (temporarily) if the tone and respect of exchanges doesn't improve. Various posters have overstepped these lines in the last page or so, however to remove someone now, would be taking an action just to take an action which we feel would be counter productive. I'd prefer to just draw a line under the above, dust ourselves off and restart the exchange.
After reviewing the posts on this page, it's clear you folks go really in depth on the finer detail and the thread is one many other members enjoy reading because of your input. I'd suggest - between yourselves - establishing a baseline of comparison for such screenshots, and both adhering to those self moderated rules. Focus your efforts not on disproving each other, but evidencing your point so well and completely that those reading can attest to the conclusion you reach and are swayed to your side of the argument. Please bear in mind that some mistakes are honest as well and not an insidious attempt to hoodwink the other side.
Believe us we know frustration descends at times, we know tone and sarcasm is difficult to read in text. But let's not forget the commonality. We're all in here, poring over the absolute extremes of fidelity, design and models. There's no need to get in such a polarised mindset, let's just be appreciative of where we are and the different approaches and sacrifices that each game makes
The gaming public needs more comparisons of old games comparing a circuit racer like Driveclub vs. an open world game like Forza Horizon 3. LOL
/S
ethomaz
Banned
Let me "guess" that is Forza 7 on PC?Just opened another Flickr account because Imgur is converting my png's to Jpeg, even if they are good quality i do it so some people here have no excuses anymore. So i re upload my post in all PNG this time
Please can you post Xbox One X pics instead if you want to put side a side with GTS.
Last edited:
Little Chicken
Member
The point being FH4 MSAA doesn't perform antialias on trees, in case your reading comprehension failed you.
"producing hard edges which do not exist. It's pixelating the image"
Christ almighty, do you even know what proper scaling is and how it works?
This is a proper zoom, where 1 pixel from the original still looks like 1 pixel (a fucking square dot).
Instead of your blurred scaled up representation of one, which is not an exact representation of 1 pixel anymore (not a fucking square dot):
Again, THE POINT BEING: FH4 MSAA doesn't do anything to smooth them out.
Again, comparing the PC version, not the similar hardware console... "$2000+ hardware bruteforces mostly better settings than $300 and $500 hardware"
and you even had the balls of posting again the version of the GTS capture with TAA disabled.
Keep spiralling down that childish tantrum. Say something about my mama next.
It's "about the games not the hardware they run on"... said the "Forza iq shits on anyhting because its on pc" guy.
So, in your own words, it is just and exactly about the hardware they run on.
One more time... "because it is on pc"... so, when it is not on PC (hardware) its IQ doesn't "shits on anyhting".
So in the end, there is nothing for you to discuss besides any feature you can bruteforce higher on a PC. Again, just the same
Your pathetic hunt for the worst possible examples (empty track, exact point with the worst aliasing bug in the whole game) of GT Sport still look better than Forza 7 on Xbox One X, which is the natural comparision of the game. But you can keep parroting about your $2000 PC being better at anything that can be bruteforced by hardware.
GTS looks great when you are not desperately setting it up to its worst to fit your narrative:
Thought so. GTS TAA Isn't perfect, of course. Some elements look better/worse than others. But neither is Forza 7 on the more powerful Xbox One X.
They fail on different stuff. For example, GTS AA on the power lines is great, even with the TAA off, whereas in Forza 7's is one of its weakest points:
I don't know what sort of trickery PD used for these, as they are usually one of the worst cases for AA in any game, but it's not present for all cases:
Something similar happens with the fences. GTS top, F7 down:
We can see how motion blur in Forza 7 doesn't affect the fences too.
Which brings up another issue. GT Sport doesn't have motion blur during gameplay. Both Forza 7 and Forza Horizon 4 usually feature strong motion blur, which despite some errors like the mentioned with the fences, helps masking aliasing a lot, and increases the sense of speed.
And here is another close example of how Forza 7 AA doesn't work on them:
But in some cases GTS can be as bad as Forza 7 too:
There are differences between Forza 7 AA and Forza Horizon 4 AA.
As you noted, Forza 7 has AA in trees but shows more problems with geometry, while FH4 is the opposite. I guess this has to do with Forza Horizon 4 trees and vegetation having a much higher polygon count and overall total count on the game.
Your examples are from PC, and again, like the case from DynamiteCop!, that scaling with blurring doesn't make any sense when the point is to analyze AA.
FXAA is the lowest class of AA, TAA is not.
Regarding Forza Horizon 4. Again, check out the Digital Foundry Xbox One X both Quality (30 fps) and Performance (60fps) comparisions at Eurogamer: https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/...zon-4s-xbox-one-x-60fps-mode-is-the-real-deal
This is Forza Horizon 4 on the more powerful (than PS4 Pro) Xbox One X at 60fps (Performance mode). Just crops from Eurogamer:
Why do you keep comparing a 60fps dynamic open world game to a 60fps-ish closed circuit game?
ethomaz
Banned
I was looking yesterday.... it is really well done.SPA - Real vs GTS
Ah yes the famous lets make shit up in our models as we go along Forza, so great.
It's like they've never seen that building in their lives
