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Next Super Smash Bros. discussion thread, Community Edition

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J

Justin Timberlake

Member
I try to avoid this thread because I know it'll just makes me depressed, but its really sad to see so much ignorance about competitive smash in 2012.

*sigh*

Anth0ny said:
The 8 top tiers- everyone ICs and up
The 6 super viables (characters you can make your main without any real need of a secondary) - everyone Luigi and up
The 7 "specialists" (characters who have major flaws overall but are still great at certain matchups; ex: Y.L v. Puff, Link v. Marth/Samus, Zelda v. ICs, Roy v. Falcon, etc) - Yoshi and up
The 5 at the bottom (characters that struggle, and struggle hard, at just about every matchup) - Kirby, Pichu, Bowser, Ness, and G&W
Click to expand...

Nice to see my terminology spreading around the internet <3
 
D

DICKS AHOY

Banned
Pretty sure you have the definition of 'cycle' backwards.

Also Lucas needs PSI Love as his Final Smash and Ness to have his Up-B as Teleport and his Flash reworked to move him further away from Lucas, but out of the clones he wasn't really all that similar. Not sure why some people get indignant over the notion Smash has a few clones since... It sort of does?
 
V

Vidiot

Member
Was just thinking, if Ridley did get in as a playable character in the new Smash would they use his Other M design? That would stink IMO. He finally gets in as a PC, but as his worst looking incarnation. I'll take what I can get though.

Also, I'm new here. Looking forward to going mad from Japan time with everyone.
 
B

Boney

Banned
Vidiot said:
Was just thinking, if Ridley did get in as a playable character in the new Smash would they use his Other M design? That would stink IMO. He finally gets in as a PC, but as his worst looking incarnation. I'll take what I can get though.

Also, I'm new here. Looking forward to going mad from Japan time with everyone.
Click to expand...

What the fuck is the problem with it's design there

wtf!
 
G

Green Mamba

Member
Boney said:
What the fuck is the problem with it's design there

wtf!
Click to expand...

Woody Woodpecker mouth, hideous proportions, enormous spikes sticking out of his knees, hips, elbows etc., plastic skin, goofy hexagon pattern on wings, ridiculously oversized claws. He looks like he was drawn by a sixth grader. Literally every single Ridley design save for the original Metroid's looks leagues better.
 
S

SmithnCo

Member
The Xtortionist said:
Exhibit D - Ganondorf receives new moveset, old moveset given to Black Shadow
Click to expand...

Yeah. In GX he pretty much got the most facetime besides Falcon. I would like to finally see Ganondorf get a more fitting moveset too.

I also hope NIntendo uses some of its new e-shop characters as new assists. Pushmo, Sakura Samurai, and Rolling Western characters could make for some fun assists.
 
I

illadelph

Member
I just like when they bring back old classics, like they did with G&W, ROB, Ice Climbers, Pit, etc. Give me some big ones like Ridley, Little Mac, new Zelda character, but give me some obscure dudes too.
 
V

Vidiot

Member
He just looked too buff to me. I call him Roidley in Other M. It's not a big deal but I prefer the slimmer look for him. He looked perfect in Brawl.
 
S

SmithnCo

Member
illadelph said:
I just like when they bring back old classics, like they did with G&W, ROB, Ice Climbers, Pit, etc. Give me some big ones like Ridley, Little Mac, new Zelda character, but give me some obscure dudes too.
Click to expand...

Balloon Fighter might fit. He should at least be an assist.
 
N

Nocturnowl

Member
Ookami-kun said:
Oh boy, people still think Lucas is a clone.

Is there a "Smash Cycle"?
Click to expand...

- Get hype for new smash bros
- Character speculation begins complete with a few movesets
- Some fanatics insist Geno is a likely choice
- We need more villains! Ridley! K.Rool! Black Shadow! (alternatively more females)
- but...but...Ridley's too big! size arguments commence!
- Ganondorf needs a new moveset (see also Black Shadow moveset swap)
- Brawl bashing from competitive players
- Counterattack against competitive players from more casual players
- Clones argument
- Character removal arguments, mostly pokemon related
- Brief discussion on possible stages or items
- Adventure mode debate
- *trips*

Repeat until new information arrives, once said information gets dissected it's then back to the cycle
 
T

Thores

Member
SmithnCo said:
Balloon Fighter might fit. He should at least be an assist.
Click to expand...

I think I read something about how when Sakurai was making Melee, he actually considered including Balloon Fighter as the "retro" rep for the game, but passed on him in favor of the Ice Climbers. Other unused candidates he mentioned were Excitebike and Bubbles from Clu Clu Land. It's worth noting that several characters that were scrapped for Smash 1 and Melee ended up being in Brawl.

Also, I would have loved to see Geno in Melee, and he would have been kind of a neat callback in Brawl. But that ship has definitely sailed.
 
I

illadelph

Member
Huge Mario RPG fan here. Geno is a completely illogical choice, but that's kind of why I want him. That said, I don't have my hopes up haha. Paper Mario would make so much more sense.

And I can definitely see Balloon Fighter happening.
 
P

PokéKong

Member
Oh boy, people think clones have to play exactly alike besides for differences in speed and power? So what is a character which has the same build and same B moves but with arbitrary alterations to each one? A completely original unique fighter?

I know Luigi and Wolf straddle the line more than most, but Lucas is as obviously a clone as Falco.

Billychu said:
He was in Superstar Saga
Click to expand...

That deserves some clarification. He had a very small cameo.

As much as I love the character and would like to see him get in, I strongly believe it's a lost hope. If he had shown up in one of the Mario/Square sports games maybe I'd feel different.
 
G

Green Mamba

Member
PokéKong;34843040 said:
Oh boy, people think clones have to play exactly alike besides for differences in speed and power? So what is a character which has the same build and same B moves but with arbitrary alterations to each one? A completely original unique fighter?

I know Luigi and Wolf straddle the line more than most, but Lucas is as obviously a clone as Falco.
Click to expand...

There's quite a bit more to a character than just B moves. Lucas is obviously based off of Ness's archetype, but to call him a clone in the same vein as Falco is just not correct.
 
S

Snakey

Member
For those who wonder what Sakurai thinks about Lip. There was actually a request from a Japanese Smash Bros. fan that specifically asked for Lip (and mentioned to Sakurai that there was a lack of female characters in Smash Bros.).

Sakurai's response to the request was this:
Lip. How many people actually know who she is?

On the topic of Panel de Pon though, I feel it is a true masterpiece. Everyone should play it if they ever get the chance.
 
P

PokéKong

Member
Green Mamba said:
There's quite a bit more to a character than just B moves. Lucas is obviously based off of Ness's archetype, but to call him a clone in the same vein as Falco is just not correct.
Click to expand...

But are B moves and build nothing? Some of his A moves are different, but overall one would need to cite the difference between Lucas and Ness rather than need to draw similarities.
 
U

udivision

Member
PokéKong;34843040 said:
Oh boy, people think clones have to play exactly alike besides for differences in speed and power? So what is a character which has the same build and same B moves but with arbitrary alterations to each one? A completely original unique fighter?

I know Luigi and Wolf straddle the line more than most, but Lucas is as obviously a clone as Falco.
Click to expand...

The only thing I get from this post is that you're one of those Smashers that chose 1 character and never played any others. I doubt that's true.

PokéKong;34843358 said:
But are B moves and build nothing? Some of his A moves are different, but overall one would need to cite the difference between Lucas and Ness rather than need to draw similarities.
Click to expand...

They share 1 A move (FSmash), and 3 B moves (PK Thun, PK Fire, PSI Mag). Drawing similiarites would be a whole heck of a lot easier and shorter.
 
N

Nocturnowl

Member
Snakey said:
For those who wonder what Sakurai thinks about Lip. There was actually a request from a Japanese Smash Bros. fan that specifically asked for Lip (and mentioned to Sakurai that there was a lack of female characters in Smash Bros.).

Sakurai's response to the request was this:
Lip. How many people actually know who she is?

On the topic of Panel de Pon though, I feel it is a true masterpiece. Everyone should play it if they ever get the chance.
Click to expand...

Has a Panel de Pon game actually made it out of Japan with Lip intact? they were reskinned with Yoshi and Pokemon if i'm remembering correctly. I've yet to actually play any of them, I was kind of hoping that the SNES Tetris attack would reach the Wii VC but like most games I was looking forward to its been strangely absent from the service.(that said Pokemon Puzzle League is there so maybe I could just try that)
At least Lip's theme made it into Brawl because that theme was great.
 
A

Antioch

Member
One of the things I'm really hoping for is a far deeper stage builder, more so than new characters actually.

But talking about characters, it seems there aren't many obvious choices for inclusion like Meta Knight, Dedede, Pit, Wario etc. last time, all I can come up with that really deserve to be in Smash and are popular enough are:
Little Mac
Miyamoto's new IP main character, maybe?
Lord Ghirahim
Ridley
Matthew
Miis
Toad?
Mike from Star Tropics?
 
G

Green Mamba

Member
PokéKong;34843358 said:
But are B moves and build nothing? Some of his A moves are different, but overall one would need to cite the difference between Lucas and Ness rather than need to draw similarities.
Click to expand...

Lucas shares one A move with Ness. One. The rest are all different. I'd say the opposite overall with Lucas compared to Ness. They have fewer similarities than differences from my viewpoint. I think you need to go back and re-compare them. Wolf is no further from Fox than Lucas is to Ness.
 
S

Snakey

Member
ffdgh said:
on that note, how many people knew marth and roy before melee?
Click to expand...

Marth was well known in Japan, Monsho no Nazo (FE3) was the most popular and highest selling game in the Fire Emblem series even to this day.. Roy you do have a point on though. Roy's placement into Smash Bros. though was actually Sakurai's idea, not Intelligent System's.

If Sakurai's only objection to Lip is her obscurity then she could eventually get into Smash Bros. somewhere down the line. However, Panel de Pon is a now much older game than when Sakurai was developing Melee.
 
B

Boney

Banned
Billychu said:
Are you seriously defending that design?
Click to expand...

It was more of a premptive, visually Other M is a fine game except maybe for the heels, buttshots, and the lasagna lava. I've seen people hate on Samus's suit design cause other m lol
Happens a lot, maybe I was too confronting on the matter, and for that i'm sorry i guess, but design wise, I like it a lot, for the same reasons mamba dislikes it really, probably not my favourite design, but I like it a lot.

now if you excuse me I have to go and call you an idiot behind your back. Wise ass.

Green Mamba said:
Boney defends some of the strangest stuff from Other M.
Click to expand...

Yes. I defend the weirdest shit like I like the combat and I like the game goes fast. And I also think it's a pretty game.

Anyways, for some smash talk, Ridley and Charizard feel a lot similar fisically so it feels kinda redundant to have 'em both. I mean they're both heavy fire breathing dragons that fly with wings, but I guess using generic definitions you can probably reduce the roster to like 3 groups so what do I know.
 
S

SmithnCo

Member
Antioch said:
One of the things I'm really hoping for is a far deeper stage builder, more so than new characters actually.

But talking about characters, it seems there aren't many obvious choices for inclusion like Meta Knight, Dedede, Pit, Wario etc. last time, all I can come up with that really deserve to be in Smash and are popular enough are:
Little Mac
Miyamoto's new IP main character, maybe?
Lord Ghirahim
Ridley
Matthew
Miis
Toad?
Mike from Star Tropics?
Click to expand...

Mike from Star Tropics is really iffy, though I'd like to see it. Hopefully a Sin and Punishment character makes it as well, I'm thinking maybe Isa from Star Successor.

Perhaps a Xenoblade character too?
 
S

Sir Ilpalazzo

Member
People bring up Ghirahim a lot (and I'd like to see him in Smash Bros. too, he's a really cool character), but I don't think there's any chance of him getting in. I think you can count the number of one-off characters from large series represented in SSB on one hand.

And I would really love to see a Sin and Punishment character, but every single release of a game from that series has totally bombed except for the VC version of the first game.

I'm sure Miis will get in. Remember that Brawl's roster was mostly decided on back in 2005, so Sakurai wouldn't have known how big they would become.
 
G

Green Mamba

Member
Boney said:
Yes. I defend the weirdest shit like I like the combat and I like the game goes fast. And I also think it's a pretty game.
Click to expand...
I was just remembering the time you were defending the music. That, the Ridley design, and what I bolded just kind of make me sit back and go "uh?"

EDIT: I'm mostly just poking fun. Mostly. But that Ridley design? Serious business.

Sir Ilpalazzo said:
People bring up Ghirahim a lot (and I'd like to see him in Smash Bros. too, he's a really cool character), but I don't think there's any chance of him getting in. I think you can count the number of one-off characters from large series represented in SSB on one hand.
Click to expand...
People bringing up Ghirahim reminds me of people bringing up Midna pre-Brawl.
 
U

udivision

Member
Sir Ilpalazzo said:
People bring up Ghirahim a lot (and I'd like to see him in Smash Bros. too, he's a really cool character), but I don't think there's any chance of him getting in. I think you can count the number of one-off characters from large series represented in SSB on one hand.
Click to expand...

Shiek, Metwo, Dr. Mario, Lucario, Roy, Ike, Pichu

Depends on what one-off means though...
 
V

Vidiot

Member
As long as Little Mac and Riley make the cut (assuming no one gets cut) I'll be pretty happy. Everyone after those two are gravy. Well I also really want classic Megaman if more 3rd party characters show up.
 
S

Snakey

Member
Antioch said:
One of the things I'm really hoping for is a far deeper stage builder, more so than new characters actually.

But talking about characters, it seems there aren't many obvious choices for inclusion like Meta Knight, Dedede, Pit, Wario etc. last time, all I can come up with that really deserve to be in Smash and are popular enough are:
Little Mac
Miyamoto's new IP main character, maybe?
Lord Ghirahim
Ridley
Matthew
Miis
Toad?
Mike from Star Tropics?
Click to expand...

I would omit Ghirahim, Matthew, and Mike Jones (StarTropics) from that list.

However, yeah, Ridley, Little Mac, and Miis are pretty much the only major Nintendo characters left that are not yet playable in Smash Bros. Toad, K. Rool, and Dixie Kong are notable to a lesser extent. There also exists a lot of requests to bring back Mewtwo and Roy. Other than this, Brawl pretty much got in nearly every notable Nintendo character.

Miyamoto's new IP (if it does have a character that could be made playable) is an obvious choice too.

Personally, I don't think Smash 4 needs as much newcomers as Melee and Brawl did. We are scraping the bottom of the barrel now.
 
S

SmithnCo

Member
udivision said:
Shiek, Metwo, Dr. Mario, Lucario, Roy, Ike, Pichu

Depends on what one-off means though...
Click to expand...

Characters who only appeared in one installment of a large series, I'd imagine.

So, the Pokemon and Dr. Mario probably don't apply. Sheik and Roy would though.

On another note, I don't think there's any need to bring back Roy... He was pretty much a one-off besides a cameo. I'd rather see the protag from the 3DS game, or just Marth and Ike.
 
U

udivision

Member
Gravijah said:
dr mario has a few games dedicated to him, pokemon are in multiple games, and ike is in two different games.
Click to expand...

I think Lucario and Pichu are as close as you can get to one-off in the realm of Pokemon. Lucario and Zoarark especially, since they had their movie and were done.
 
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