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[DeepEnigma]

I created a thread to find out the credibility of the leaker actually.

I know you may have forgotten that after 18 pages of imaginary spec wars between Xbox and PS fans.

SureJan.gif

 

[SonGoku]

So RSX was suppose to be based in a new gen arch from nVidia but ended at last minute a capped G70/G71.

Is there anything to backup this claim?
G80 launched at the same time as PS3, seems like the plan was G70 all along
nvidia really is stingy

 

[Shin]

Is MS bold enough to throw a 599 console on the market?

Pure speculation...
Depends, Phil convinced Satya of this and that with Xbox so who knows what kind of idea's he pitched as a necessity.
Obviously no one wants to lose money, but if XOX sold well or higher/better/closer to the base model then it's a compelling argument.
Let's say the total cost (shipping incl. etc) is $599 and you're willing to lose $50 on each console sold, you get another $50 from Live --> $499 console.

 

[Humdinger]

I'm sure this has been said before in the thread, but I think any difference between the two consoles will be marginal, in terms of real-world outcomes. We have already reached the point of diminishing returns with regard to the leap from this gen to next, and so the difference between the two rival consoles will be even more diminishing.

I'm already unimpressed at the 40%+ difference between the X and the Pro (speaking TFs, although I know that's crude). I think the difference between the next gen consoles will be around 10%. Barely perceptible and not worth making a purchase decision based on. It will continue to be a bragging point, but in terms of actual outcomes, I don't think it'll matter much at all.

 

[ANIMAL1975]

Bruh, you created this thread on no info.

He created two threads actually, they were merge,... you people forget things after 18 pages console warz

 

[TTOOLL]

Pure speculation...
Depends, Phil convinced Satya of this and that with Xbox so who knows what kind of idea's he pitched as a necessity.
Obviously no one wants to lose money, but if XOX sold well or higher/better/closer to the base model then it's a compelling argument.
Let's say the total cost (shipping incl. etc) is $599 and you're willing to lose $50 on each console sold, you get another $50 from Live --> $499 console.

Yeah, it's nice to dream.

 

[ethomaz]

Is there anything to backup this claim?
G80 launched at the same time as PS3, seems like the plan was G70 all along
nvidia really is stingy

No. Because I'm just saying what I remember... it can be some tales of from some site lol

RSX was rushed to use NV47 (G70/G71) because nVidia didn't get the new arch ready in time (NV50).
Even Sony expected a stronger GPU form nVidia but got well that RSX.

My opinion... I don't see Sony or MS using a nVidia's GPU in the future unless something drastic happens to AMD's GPUs... it was not a good experience for them.

 

[SonGoku]

RSX was rushed to use NV47 (G70/G71) because nVidia didn't get the new arch ready in time (NV50).
Even Sony expected a stronger GPU form nVidia but got well that RSX.

The new arch (G80) was in time lol, it released right alongside the PS3

 

[ethomaz]

The new arch (G80) was in time lol, it released right alongside the PS3

PS3 was suppose to release in 2005... not 2006.
It was a mess of project.

PlayStation 3 Was Delayed, Originally Planned For 2005 - IGN

In a conversation with multiple sources associated with Naughty Dog, IGN can today confirm that the PlayStation 3 was supposed to launch in 2005 and was delayed by a year.

www.ign.com

I think it could be a nice history if some journalist dig everything that happened with PS3, Cell, RSX to publish an article.

I'm pretty sure there is a lot of things that were not revealed.

 

[Shin]

Yeah, it's nice to dream.

Yeah sun in my face and all, slept like a baby

 

[CyberPanda]

SureJan.gif

At least post the actual gif my fellow doge lover. Smh

 

[Freeman454]

I think we can all agree with this. If Sony pushed a rushed and weak PS5 with only 16GB and 8TF, I would personally boycott such a machine.

Why? Im sure Zen2 8 core and 8TF of next gen architecture will do a nice boost over the base PS4 of 1.84TF. We shouldnt look at the Pro maybe, as its a mid-gen refresh.

 

[Son_of_Zardoz]

Think about what you are saying here for a moment. Don't allow people to tell you that Lockhart and Anaconda are just resolution differences away from being the same console. They are not. At least not with the rumored hardware that they have.

Also....think about this. When the PS3 launch it also had 2 skus. A $499 PS3 with a 20 GB HDD and a $599 with a 60 GB HDD. That was the only difference (well something with fewer USB ports too but who cares lol). People called the 20 GB PS3 the PS3 Poor. It was a PR nightmare than Sony bailed out of super quick.

You think MS will be able to shake the Xbox Next Poor label for Lockhart? Think about it. Lockhart will have no disc drive, half the RAM, half the HDD space, a GPU that's 65% or more weaker, and less bandwidth. And how much cheaper do you really think they'll sell this console for? $100 less? Maybe, but who would buy it if it cost $399? It wouldn't be worth it. Any hardcore gamer that feels the need to spend $399 on a new console, proper already has a 4K TV or will be buying one within the next year or two. Why gimp yourself with the Xbox Next Poor? Why not just save an extra $100 and get the "REAL" Xbox Next"?

Once again, another person getting upset after pulling shit out of midair. MS has made no announcements yet. If the Lockhart system is that much less of a system do you seriously think they will only charge $100 less? At this point anything is possible but NOTHING has been announced yet so treating your ham-fisted theory as gospel is a little further than I'm willing to stretch.

---

I'm way late to this thread but I don't know why anybody is going to believe that one system is going to be very far ahead of the other. I could see MS maybe coming out on top because of how power has become their main calling card (since they can't match Sony on exclusives) but regardless of who comes out on top, power wise, I don't think it's going to be that big of a difference. Now we just wait.

 

[DeepEnigma]

At least post the actual gif my fellow doge lover. Smh

It's a bitch on mobile, /grumbles.

 

[mckmas8808]

Once again, another person getting upset after pulling shit out of midair. MS has made no announcements yet. If the Lockhart system is that much less of a system do you seriously think they will only charge $100 less? At this point anything is possible but NOTHING has been announced yet so treating your ham-fisted theory as gospel is a little further than I'm willing to stretch.

---

I'm way late to this thread but I don't know why anybody is going to believe that one system is going to be very far ahead of the other. I could see MS maybe coming out on top because of how power has become their main calling card (since they can't match Sony on exclusives) but regardless of who comes out on top, power wise, I don't think it's going to be that big of a difference. Now we just wait.

I literally said "based on the rumors". Everything this thread is about is rumors from "insiders". Why would you think I believe what I'm saying is gospel?

 

[Shin]

Good video.

 

[SonGoku]

PS3 was suppose to release in 2005... not 2006.

But Sony delayed for Bluray so they had no issue postponing launch for tech to be ready. If they were really planning to use G80 at one point they would had waited for it. Tesla was such a big paradigm shift from fixed pipeline shaders. Whats more if nvidia wanted they could make a custom card with new unreleased tech like ATI did for MS.

Nvidia its just a terrible console partner, nothing redeemable about them in that field.

I think it could be a nice history if some journalist dig everything that happened with PS3, Cell, RSX to publish an article.

I'm pretty sure there is a lot of things that were not revealed.

Indeed

 

[SonGoku]

Why? Im sure Zen2 8 core and 8TF of next gen architecture will do a nice boost over the base PS4 of 1.84TF. We shouldnt look at the Pro maybe, as its a mid-gen refresh.

If this hypothetical 8TF console was targeting 1080p I would agree with you but 4K requires a huge headroom of processing power, not to mention talks of RT (another GPU resource hog) into the mix.
6TF is the minimum requirement to run current gen games at 4k, 8TF would do jack shit for a next gen leap at 4k.

 

[Poikilothermy]

Power is good but they need to have better development studios.

 

[DeepEnigma]

If this hypothetical 8TF console was targeting 1080p I would agree with you but 4K requires a huge headroom of processing power, not to mention talks of RT (another GPU resource hog) into the mix.
6TF is the minimum requirement to run current gen games at 4k, 8TF would do jack shit for a next gen leap at 4k.

If they are talking more solid 4K with VR investment as well as RT and the 8K drop (even if it is very limited/CB style), they are not focusing anything under 10-12TF I would wager. Would not be surprised if more either.

 

[SonGoku]

If they are talking more solid 4K with VR investment as well as RT and the 8K drop (even if it is very limited/CB style), they are not focusing anything under 10-12TF I would wager.

Indeed, 11TF is the absolute minimum i see them going (CB 4k). I expect something between 12-14TF (mostly native 4k)
I think the 8k drop was more related to video signals for movies and such.

I think midgen refresh push will be VR (15-20TF machines). Midgen could make the 4k/60 fps standard dream a reality or ultra/max next gen graphics at 4k.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Indeed, 11TF is the absolute minimum i see them going (CB 4k). I expect something between 12-14TF (mostly native 4k)
I think the 8k drop was more related to video signals for movies and such.

I think midgen refresh push will be VR (15-20TF machines). Midgen could make the 4k/60 fps standard dream a reality or ultra/max next gen graphics at 4k.

I assume 8K was more about the signal/video letting us know it will be 2.1 spec with VRR (since most of their TVs will have VRR this year), etc., but also, he did supposedly say "graphics", now while it will be limited, I think it was also a hint at the power we are looking at not being under the 10TF range at all.

 

[Shin]

At least their X XDK was/is more advanced so they got that going for them

 

[shark sandwich]

PS3 was suppose to release in 2005... not 2006.
It was a mess of project.

PlayStation 3 Was Delayed, Originally Planned For 2005 - IGN

In a conversation with multiple sources associated with Naughty Dog, IGN can today confirm that the PlayStation 3 was supposed to launch in 2005 and was delayed by a year.

www.ign.com

I think it could be a nice history if some journalist dig everything that happened with PS3, Cell, RSX to publish an article.

I'm pretty sure there is a lot of things that were not revealed.

I’m 100% certain of the following:

- PS3 was originally intended to have multiple Cell chips. ALL the early Cell info focused on how multiple Cells worked together “like cells in the body”. It was only much later when they retroactively changed this to mean “software cells” aka the jobs that the PPE dispatches to the SPEs

- PS3 was late. Sony insisted it was releasing “early 2006” all the way until Feb 2006, when they changed it to November.

- RSX was the plan B after the multi-Cell thing didn’t work out. Everybody was surprised by the rumors that Sony had contracted Nvidia for something. Sony’s president was asked if it was for PS3 and he said something like “that’s ridiculous, we don’t need Nvidia’s help”

 

[Aceofspades]

Good video.

Is that what you call a good video? The dude is basically saying nothing, the entirety of the video is made of feelings and wishful thinking with tons of the usual "insiders" "MS has deep pockets" "Balance".... etc.

I got a flashback of MisterX 2013 meltdowns of "Cloud power" "dGPU" and "Esram advantages" bullocks among other stuff.

June is close by and MS will reveal their next gen soon, I suggest you stop looking for "Leaks" on YT and start posting them here as "good" or "bad" solely because they match your feelings.

 

[Shin]

Is that what you call a good video? The dude is basically saying nothing, the entirety of the video is made of feelings and wishful thinking with tons of the usual "insiders" "MS has deep pockets" "Balance".... etc.

I got a flashback of MisterX 2013 meltdowns of "Cloud power" "dGPU" and "Esram advantages" bullocks among other stuff.

June is close by and MS will reveal their next gen soon, I suggest you stop looking for "Leaks" on YT and start posting them here as "good" or "bad" solely because they match your feelings.

What a strange post in response to saying "good video", are you ok?
It's good because he goes on to say he has seen documents or something like that, therefor backing up the rumors that they are aiming higher/stronger whatever word floats your boat.
Given the fact that he had an Xbox member on his podcast the other day, if he would lie about such a thing it would come back really fast to haunt him.

Take a deep breath.

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

I think the scramble to insist the next Xbox is "more advanced" tell us two things about the situation:

1) So-called Insiders don't know what they're talking about, since they were clearly caught off guard by the announcement
2) So-called Insiders appear to be astroturfing for a particular brand's console launch.... again.

 

[Freeman454]

If they are talking more solid 4K with VR investment as well as RT and the 8K drop (even if it is very limited/CB style), they are not focusing anything under 10-12TF I would wager. Would not be surprised if more either.

Same here, but i wouldnt be suprised if it ends up at or below 10TF. Turing didnt see a TF increase but the performance did. Power hungry people that go after numbers want as much TF as possible.
Also, theres a chance we wont see another Pro or X version mid gen refresh. I think the 4k was the main reason for this time around. 8k seems way to far ahead.

 

[JLMC469]

I wouldn’t be surprised if we get another 360 vs PS3.

 

[ResilientBanana]

Same here, but i wouldnt be suprised if it ends up at or below 10TF. Turing didnt see a TF increase but the performance did. Power hungry people that go after numbers want as much TF as possible.
Also, theres a chance we wont see another Pro or X version mid gen refresh. I think the 4k was the main reason for this time around. 8k seems way to far ahead.

8k seems like one of those bullshit specs that’s toted at the beginning of a generation that never comes to fruition in any meaningful way. Microsoft will most likely have it too

 

[StreetsofBeige]

8k seems like one of those bullshit specs that’s toted at the beginning of a generation that never comes to fruition in any meaningful way. Microsoft will most likely have it too

Yup. A 10+TF machine can do great stuff, but realistically it can't do everything. Pick and choose what to focus on..............

1. Improved physics
2. Smoother gameplay
3. Better AI
4. 8k res

Guess which one devs and the marketing department will plug in every PR bit and the cardboard box.

 

[shark sandwich]

8k seems like one of those bullshit specs that’s toted at the beginning of a generation that never comes to fruition in any meaningful way. Microsoft will most likely have it too

It’s part of the HDMI 2.1 spec so it’s one of those features that requires basically zero effort to support. At best it means that the console might do a better job of upscaling than your TV does. Highly doubt that any graphically intensive games will render above 4K.

 

[TLZ]

MS have their own Mark too

 

[Omega Supreme Holopsicon]

Indeed, 11TF is the absolute minimum i see them going (CB 4k). I expect something between 12-14TF (mostly native 4k)
I think the 8k drop was more related to video signals for movies and such.

I think midgen refresh push will be VR (15-20TF machines). Midgen could make the 4k/60 fps standard dream a reality or ultra/max next gen graphics at 4k.

I think foveated rendering could allow base to push above its weight

Yup. A 10+TF machine can do great stuff, but realistically it can't do everything. Pick and choose what to focus on..............

1. Improved physics
2. Smoother gameplay
3. Better AI
4. 8k res

Guess which one devs and the marketing department will plug in every PR bit and the cardboard box.

8K res is unecessary especially in smaller tv sets, and unreasonable on AAA games.

Better AI some of the best AI is decades old, so it shouldn't be that difficult to provide better AI.

Smoother gameplay is merely 60fps, which isn't out of the ordinary, as for physics that will depend on the game, but even in ps4 there was already quite a good improvement in physics in many games.

 

[SonGoku]

I’m 100% certain of the following:

- PS3 was originally intended to have multiple Cell chips. ALL the early Cell info focused on how multiple Cells worked together “like cells in the body”. It was only much later when they retroactively changed this to mean “software cells” aka the jobs that the PPE dispatches to the SPEs

- PS3 was late. Sony insisted it was releasing “early 2006” all the way until Feb 2006, when they changed it to November.

- RSX was the plan B after the multi-Cell thing didn’t work out. Everybody was surprised by the rumors that Sony had contracted Nvidia for something. Sony’s president was asked if it was for PS3 and he said something like “that’s ridiculous, we don’t need Nvidia’s help”

This 2xCELL rumor always had me wondering how do you output video signal without a GPU, how do you render textures and such?
Or was the second CELL designed to resemble a GPU more?

 

[ethomaz]

This 2xCELL rumor always had me wondering how do you output video signal without a GPU, how do you render textures and such?
Or was the second CELL designed to resemble a GPU more?

You use a processor unit called ROP and it doesn’t need to be inside the Cell.

BTW a display adapter ou video card don’t necessary needs a GPU to output the signal to TV... in fact in the past we used to have a display adapter and GPU separeted.

 

[SonGoku]

You use a processor unit called ROP and it doesn’t need to be inside the Cell.

What about TMUs?
From what i read over the years on the CELL i got the idea it functions as a GPGPU but there are many more traditional GPU tasks its not suited for hence why they dropped the 2xcell concept.

 

[ethomaz]

From what i read over the years on the CELL i got the idea it functions as a GPGPU but there are many more traditional GPU tasks its not suited for hence why they dropped the 2xcell concept.

Yeap that the could be the case but we will never know I guess

Just to add a bit more a GPU is a processor just like a CPU so each other can do the work of the other (you can run 3D graphics in a CPU and you can run a OS in a GPU) the biggest difference are how specialized these processor are for pre-determined tasks... so the performance vastly diverge depending to what you are using it because these processors have instructions sets way different to each other.

That is true to any processor... eg. audio processor, camera sensor processor, etc etc.

 

[SonGoku]

BTW a display adapter ou video card don’t necessary needs a GPU to output the signal to TV... in fact in the past we used to have a display adapter and GPU separeted.

Back then PC motherboards had their own integrated graphics

the biggest difference are how specialized these processor are for pre-determined tasks... so the performance vastly diverge depending to what you are using it because these processors have instructions sets way different to each other.

Intel learned that the hard way with larrabee

 

[CyberPanda]

At least their X XDK was/is more advanced so they got that going for them

That’s a nice looking development kit.

 

[ethomaz]

Back then PC motherboards had their own integrated graphics

Intel learned that the hard way with larrabee

They had a VIC or VDC not GPU.. and it is not integrate graphics.

They did a good job explaining all the difference: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_display_controller

In simple terms the GPU today include all these processor units but they continue being separated processor units (or blocks in the silicon).

 

[SonGoku]

They have a VIC or VDC not GPU.. and it is not integrate graphics.

They did a good job explaining all the difference: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_display_controller

In simple terms the GPU today include all these processor units.

I was thinking more recentish motherboards circa 2006-2010

 

[ethomaz]

I was thinking more recentish motherboards circa 2006-2010

Ohhhh yes... GPU started to include all these processor units way before 2006

PS. Maybe I’m too old

 

[Reallink]

Why? Im sure Zen2 8 core and 8TF of next gen architecture will do a nice boost over the base PS4 of 1.84TF. We shouldnt look at the Pro maybe, as its a mid-gen refresh.

The 6TF Xbone X will be 3 years old when PS5 is most likely to launch. Mid gen refreshes exist, you can't just ignore them out of convenience for your theory crafting . An 8TF PS5 would represent Sony throwing in the towel and going full Wii.

 

[Slings and Arrows]

And Sony isn't?

Let's be honest with ourselves: Sony and Microsoft are both sides of the same coin--only difference is that the former failed to successfully diversify (though their assets still held worth and saved Sony Entertainment as a whole when they were sold off), and the latter was able to successfully diversify their business portfolio. They both have crappy corporate policies, have made mistakes, and use PowerPoint and business men out of touch with their core audiences to promote products.

The former had their backs (fiscally-speaking) against the wall starting this gen and came out successful after a less-than-successful prior gen, while the latter promoted a rat in a suit, got burned by it, but put someone in that doesn't have their head lodged in their rectum, and they're turning the ship around (and are afforded the luxury of doing this by virtue of their vast successful portfolio).

I was more talking about how tone-deaf and out of touch Microsoft have become since Peter Moore left. Their conferences are fucking painful and at times, downright embarrassing.

Sony may go overly cheesy now and then, but the aim is to always please the gamers, make them laugh and make Sony appear more likeable.

Microsoft just beat their viewers and audiences over the head with dick-swinging stats and figures. They aren't likeable at all, not one of them, they're all suits in an obvious way, even when they're pretending not to be.

TL;DR Sony try to appeal to their audience at a conference with cheesy cringe.

Microsoft try to appeal to their audience with forced stats, embarrassingly outdated ideas and have an overall air of arrogance. (Tv Tv Tv, NFL purchase, Kinect, Kinect 2, not launching a new Xbox, Project Milo, Those AR glasses, unveiling a new car etc. etc. etc.)

 

[CyberPanda]

8k seems like one of those bullshit specs that’s toted at the beginning of a generation that never comes to fruition in any meaningful way. Microsoft will most likely have it too

8k for 2d games, yay.

 

[SaucyJack]

8k for 2d games, yay.

8K is a red herring IMHO, it will mean nothing for Next Gen gaming. The extra detail and sharpness afford by the extra 25 million or so pixels will be lost on most of us. From what I’ve experienced so far you need to be within 3ft of a 65” screen to see the benefit of 8K vs a 4K screen and, again IMHO, that’s actually too close to comfortably game on a screen that size.

I really don’t see the benefit of 8K sets at all - for any media - unless you’re getting into 100”+ sets which are going to be prohibitively expensive for a while and too damn big for most living rooms.

If I was looking for what was going to make my home TV screen better I’d be looking at technologies other than resolution e.g. MicroLED

 

[Mattyp]

From what I’ve experienced so far you need to be within 3ft of a 65” screen to see it vs a 4K screen and

Are you saying you need to be within 3ft to see the difference between 1080 & 4K? Because that's nuts. There's a massive jump in IQ and image quality in general as long as the source is a true 4K source and a good panel.

Having said that but I think the 4K -> 8K jump will not be as great. Native 4K content is already amazingly great as I would ever need. If they start introducing 100" panels then maybe but until then.

 

[JustP_Gaming]

I was more talking about how tone-deaf and out of touch Microsoft have become since Peter Moore left. Their conferences are fucking painful and at times, downright embarrassing.

Sony may go overly cheesy now and then, but the aim is to always please the gamers, make them laugh and make Sony appear more likeable.

Microsoft just beat their viewers and audiences over the head with dick-swinging stats and figures. They aren't likeable at all, not one of them, they're all suits in an obvious way, even when they're pretending not to be.

TL;DR Sony try to appeal to their audience at a conference with cheesy cringe.

Microsoft try to appeal to their audience with forced stats, embarrassingly outdated ideas and have an overall air of arrogance. (Tv Tv Tv, NFL purchase, Kinect, Kinect 2, not launching a new Xbox, Project Milo, Those AR glasses, unveiling a new car etc. etc. etc.)

I sincerely think you and I have been watching two different conferences the past few years. The Xbox conference last year was almost perfection, in comparison the Playstation conference was an absolute disaster.

 

[Dontero]

If this hypothetical 8TF console was targeting 1080p I would agree with you but 4K requires a huge headroom of processing power, not to mention talks of RT (another GPU resource hog) into the mix.
6TF is the minimum requirement to run current gen games at 4k, 8TF would do jack shit for a next gen leap at 4k.

Why do you assume 4k will be standard when 1080p was not ? The reason why you got 4K support at all if because there were additional upgraded consoles for same games, meaning there was plenty of extra optional power.

With next gen consoles there will be no optional extra power and most of power will have to go into game itself instead of resolution. It would be insane for developers to waste 90% of console power just to get to some artifical resolution mark when they can improve graphics of the game in much bigger way by using that power for something else like extra shaders, more advanced lighting etc.

I fully expect that next gen will be 1080p defuault with some games mostly indie going into 4k territory. Then after a while they will release pro version that will give ability to go to 4k with all games.