They don't.What does not make sense however is MS having exclusive access to 7nm+ on the same time frame
I just did a google search and got both numbers.Who said anything about confirmation?
At this point, and until release, everything is rumors expect official PR.
The confirmation if what I heard is tue will come in 2020 earliest, when we have die shots for all new consoles.
I also have to say, that my rumor makes only sense, if Anaconda and Lockhard use a different process.
So the less demanding Lockhard will still be regular 7nm and Anaconda 7nm+
Those node are similar and share designtools, but one has just more logic density and better efficiency.
And the only use 7nm+ for Anaconda, because the power they want is just not possible on 7nm.
If Microsoft is going for a chiplet and not monolithic design, that makes even more sense.
So they could share the CPU and/or IO die for both and only the GPU die would be different.
There are a lot of possibilities here.
What company do you talk about?
What time frame?
What division?
Microsoft's anual gaming division is $11bn. Maybe that is where you got your number from.
Then why would you suggest the nextbox will use 7nm+ and Sony wont? Makes no sense unless we are talking about products 1 year apart.They don't.
Or a good way to use chips with faulty CUs and get the most out of the production yields. Chip reaches 14tf goes to one, fails to achieve 14 but is higher than 12 goes to another.That would be a waste, lol.
Or a good way to use chips with faulty CUs and get the most out of the production yields. Chip reaches 14tf goes to one, fails to achieve 14 but is higher than 12 goes to another.
That's why the difference in power next gen will matter even less than this gen. Devs will develop for the weakest console and then increase res and shadow quality a bit for the strongest one and be done with it. If there are any special features only one of them has, only first party titles will use it.Meant more of the pricing scheme as well as the diminishing returns.
Although I would rather have it that close for the sake of the lowest common denominator versus the rumor of 4 to 6 Tflop as the shitty baseline for next GEN when it comes to 3rd party development.
That's why the difference in power next gen will matter even less than this gen. Devs will develop for the weakest console and then increase res and shadow quality a bit for the strongest one and be done with it. If there are any special features only one of them has, only first party titles will use it.
Hmm if the CPU is the same of the 14tf console it might be OK, since the weaker one will basically be a 1080p machine, no sacrifice to game design will be necessary.That is why it frustrates me with the rumors that Lockhart is 4 to 6 Tflop where as Anaconda is much higher in the 12 the 14 range. Third-party will not take advantage of the higher spec to the fullest extent, and everything would just feel cross-gen or mid-gen refresh coat of paint. All gen long.
I already explained that in my initial post.Then why would you suggest the nextbox will use 7nm+ and Sony wont? Makes no sense unless we are talking about products 1 year apart.
Hmm if the CPU is the same of the 14tf console it might be OK, since the weaker one will basically be a 1080p machine, no sacrifice to game design will be necessary.
That is why it frustrates me with the rumors that Lockhart is 4 to 6 Tflop where as Anaconda is much higher in the 12 the 14 range. Third-party will not take advantage of the higher spec to the fullest extent, and everything would just feel cross-gen or mid-gen refresh coat of paint. All gen long.
Can you elaborate on those goals?I already explained that in my initial post.
Sony and Microsoft both have different goals.
With the same CPU and 6tf you have more than enough to scale down the 4k game to 1080p without losing any of the eye candy, allowing the 4k console remain the main console for development.I want more than just an uprez though, And if the higher specs are the baseline we would get that.
I want more than just an uprez though, And if the higher specs are the baseline we would get that.
I wouldn't worry too much if the 4TF Snek comes true.That is why it frustrates me with the rumors that Lockhart is 4 to 6 Tflop where as Anaconda is much higher in the 12 the 14 range. Third-party will not take advantage of the higher spec to the fullest extent, and everything would just feel cross-gen or mid-gen refresh coat of paint. All gen long.
Assuming a 12TF 4k console?With the same CPU and 6tf you have more than enough to scale down the 4k game to 1080p without losing any of the eye candy,
If it were a streaming only machine though, that'd be way overkill. Case in point, you can (supposedly) stream Stadia via a Chromecast - that makes sense, as all the client has to do (graphics-wise) is decode a video stream. Sure, a more traditional (even if all streaming) console has some other duties to do, like handle controller input and do some background tasks; but those could be handled just fine with the original One, with lesser hardware even.I also read rumblings of the 4tf snek being a streaming machine so there's that.
If it were a streaming only machine though, that'd be way overkill. Case in point, you can (supposedly) stream Stadia via a Chromecast - that makes sense, as all the client has to do (graphics-wise) is decode a video stream. Sure, a more traditional (even if all streaming) console has some other duties to do, like handle controller input and do some background tasks; but those could be handled just fine with the original One, with lesser hardware even.
Same, i doubt it for that reason, why would ms fragment their ecosystem like that?Hell, you can stream with a PSTV or Vita.
I still think it is way under-powered for next-gen baseline handicap.
Sony wants one true generational leap as a console.Can you elaborate on those goals?
So that means they will use the best tech available for mass production at the time of releaseSony wants one true generational leap as a console.
Yes, 12-14tf.Assuming a 12TF 4k console?
I'm betting the power difference between the next xbox and playstation will be similar to this generation. After all its the same company(amd) doing both the cpu and gpu correct?
It's weird isn't it. Why release a 4tf for streaming when you can just use the current Xbox S/SAD for that? I hope that 4tf isn't true at all.Hell, you can stream with a PSTV or Vita.
I still think it is way under-powered for next-gen baseline handicap.
Watchu mean? I play with a 800% magnifying glass stuck to my face.Lets face it, these machines are going to be so strong the average end-user will be hard pressed to spot the advantages. So who has the more powerful chipset is going to be far less of an issue than in this or previous generations.
More expensive. Not enough wafer output for just one console that is selling in the millions. Initial plans were to possibly release in 2019 already.So that means they will use the best tech available for mass production at the time of release
What makes you think they would skip 7nm+ if it available for mass production at the time of release?
More expensive. Not enough wafer output for just one console that is selling in the millions. Initial plans were to possibly release in 2019 already.
Microsoft can have Anaconda more expensive, because they have the cheaper Lockhard. They do not need as many chips because the cheaper console will sell more and total sales will be split between 2 consoles. Plan was always to release in 2020.
What I want are games, and Xbox did not bring them this gen. Hoping they will fix it the next one, at least to have more games that rock to play.
Don't remember a generation were basically one of the ¨big three¨ did not have a first party strategy. Don Mattrick brought years of consecuence as they never could manage to rectify on that department.
Still Spencer has winning cards with game pass.
2019 PS5 were just silly rumors, and even if that was the plan at some point it doesn't lock them out of 7nm+ since they still haven't entered production. So that argument is nullInitial plans were to possibly release in 2019 already.
So what you are suggesting is MS plans to sell under 1 million Sneks come launch?Microsoft can have Anaconda more expensive, because they have the cheaper Lockhard. They do not need as many chips because the cheaper console will sell more and total sales will be split between 2 consoles. Plan was always to release in 2020.
It's all about who wants to pay what (plus availability at the fab), just like Apple will use 5nm next year.Then why would you suggest the nextbox will use 7nm+ and Sony wont? Makes no sense unless we are talking about products 1 year apart.
12TF sure but at 14TF woulnt the gap be too big? what about sub 4k games (CB, 1800p, 1400p etc) in order to mantain parity the 6tf would need to play with sub 1080p resolutions.Yes, 12-14tf.
That's why the difference in power next gen will matter even less than this gen. Devs will develop for the weakest console and then increase res and shadow quality a bit for the strongest one and be done with it. If there are any special features only one of them has, only first party titles will use it.
Unless MS inteds to make the Snek $200 more expensive, I dont see how they could hold such an advantage at time of release.It's all about who wants to pay what (plus availability at the fab), just like Apple will use 5nm next year.
Money makes the world go round. Also while talking about 7nm EUV (should stop calling it + btw) I read some shit over at QQera or Reddit about Sony using 7nm EUV also.
I've tried, more than I should so I'll stop.Unless MS inteds to make the Snek $200 more expensive, I dont see how they could hold such an advantage at time of release.
7nm+ is easier to type btw
Hey man don't take it the wrong way, im open to different viewsI've tried, more than I should so I'll stop.
We discussed the whole breaking the bank thing yesterday or so, yeah?different views
It's an exciting time as always. But good lord, it's amazing how many times delusion takes precedence over logic.This thread reminds me of 2013.
Lets face it, these machines are going to be so strong the average end-user will be hard pressed to spot the advantages. So who has the more powerful chipset is going to be far less of an issue than in this or previous generations.
The reality is that these machines are going to be substantially stronger than most PC's are today, not everyone buys top-of-the-line.
Most references to the node call it EUV, it's to differentiate between the standard node refinement(+) and the use of the new EUV tools.Its easier to understand the + than to understand wtf EUV stands for.
2019 PS5 were just silly rumors, and even if that was the plan at some point it doesn't lock them out of 7nm+ since they still haven't entered production. So that argument is null
So what you are suggesting is MS plans to sell under 1 million Sneks come launch?
I still don't agree with you, but at least that has some logic behind it.
xCloud may do well also, as much as we all dislike streaming, it would be possible to bring next gen to current gen systems that way.I don't think that rumor had zero weight behind it. Cerny said Ps5 development started in 2015. So it makes sense.
No, not only 1 million at launch, because at launch the early adaptor buy in for nearly any price.
Something like this for example:
Ps5 4 million at launch @ 7nm
Lockhard 2 million at launch @7nm
Anaconda 2 million at launch @7nm+
Ps5 15 million in year 1 @7nm
Lockhard 8 million in year 1 @7nm
Anaconda 4 million in year 1 @7nm+