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Next Xbox is ‘More Advanced’ Than the PS5 according to Insiders.
- Thread starter Afro Republican
- Start date
prinz_valium
Member
They don't.
That node is in risk production since 2018, with first tape outs in October 2018.
First mass market products will release in a few months. The new iPhone for example.
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ResilientBanana
Member
I just did a google search and got both numbers.
SonGoku
Member
Then why would you suggest the nextbox will use 7nm+ and Sony wont? Makes no sense unless we are talking about products 1 year apart.
Ar¢tos
Member
Or a good way to use chips with faulty CUs and get the most out of the production yields. Chip reaches 14tf goes to one, fails to achieve 14 but is higher than 12 goes to another.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Meant more of the pricing scheme as well as the diminishing returns.
Although I would rather have it that close for the sake of the lowest common denominator versus the rumor of 4 to 6 Tflop as the shitty baseline for next GEN when it comes to 3rd party development.
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Ar¢tos
Member
That's why the difference in power next gen will matter even less than this gen. Devs will develop for the weakest console and then increase res and shadow quality a bit for the strongest one and be done with it. If there are any special features only one of them has, only first party titles will use it.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
That is why it frustrates me with the rumors that Lockhart is 4 to 6 Tflop where as Anaconda is much higher in the 12 the 14 range. Third-party will not take advantage of the higher spec to the fullest extent, and everything would just feel cross-gen or mid-gen refresh coat of paint. All gen long.
Ar¢tos
Member
Hmm if the CPU is the same of the 14tf console it might be OK, since the weaker one will basically be a 1080p machine, no sacrifice to game design will be necessary.
prinz_valium
Member
I already explained that in my initial post.
Sony and Microsoft both have different goals.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
I want more than just an uprez though, And if the higher specs are the baseline we would get that.
Armorian
Banned
Not really. Think about what Cerny said about PS4 games in 4k, that you need 8tf to render them in native res - that means 4x times the power of the PS4 GPU. With 4TF console as a base for 1920x1080 games, devs will need 4 times the power of Lockhart to achieve native 4k in next gen games, 12TF (or 13-14) Anaconda won't cut it but who said that these games will be native? With CB and techniques like DLSS many titles most likely won't be 2160p. Better console would also need more RAM for bigger framebuffer, rumors are quite logical about that.
4 and 6 TF on current refreshes are used (almost...) only to render games in higher resolution.
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The Alien
Banned
I think the next XBox will be (slightly) more powerful. Certainly not enough to make a huge sales difference.
What I do think is interesting is that the word 'advanced' is being used. Which I interpret as innovative - or at least beyond mere power specs.
I did think it was odd timing though for Sony's spec announce. So far ahead of E3. Some are saying it was purposely made on an Inside XBox day. Doesnt Sony know that show sucks and always disappoints with announcements? Lol.
Either way....E3 gonna be interesting.
What I do think is interesting is that the word 'advanced' is being used. Which I interpret as innovative - or at least beyond mere power specs.
I did think it was odd timing though for Sony's spec announce. So far ahead of E3. Some are saying it was purposely made on an Inside XBox day. Doesnt Sony know that show sucks and always disappoints with announcements? Lol.
Either way....E3 gonna be interesting.
SonGoku
Member
Can you elaborate on those goals?
Ar¢tos
Member
With the same CPU and 6tf you have more than enough to scale down the 4k game to 1080p without losing any of the eye candy, allowing the 4k console remain the main console for development.
SonGoku
Member
I wouldn't worry too much if the 4TF Snek comes true.
PS5 exclusives designed around 12TF+ will put third parties to shame (if they use 4tf snek as base console), once they see the hype behind those exclusives they will want a piece of the pie and start developing with PS5/SnekX in mind making deeep sacrifices on the 4TF Snek (900p, unstable fps, downgraded effects etc.)
I also read rumblings of the 4tf snek being a streaming machine so there's that.
Assuming a 12TF 4k console?
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nowhat
Member
If it were a streaming only machine though, that'd be way overkill. Case in point, you can (supposedly) stream Stadia via a Chromecast - that makes sense, as all the client has to do (graphics-wise) is decode a video stream. Sure, a more traditional (even if all streaming) console has some other duties to do, like handle controller input and do some background tasks; but those could be handled just fine with the original One, with lesser hardware even.
shark sandwich
tenuously links anime, pedophile and incels
With HDMI 2.1 we’ll have 4K 120FPS with VRR. There will be plenty of room for games to scale up.
Dynamic resolution/30FPS on the low end and 4K 60FPS+ on the high end would be great IMO
Dynamic resolution/30FPS on the low end and 4K 60FPS+ on the high end would be great IMO
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Hell, you can stream with a PSTV or Vita.
I still think it is way under-powered for next-gen baseline handicap.
SonGoku
Member
Same, i doubt it for that reason, why would ms fragment their ecosystem like that?
Although 6TF seems reasonable for a 1080p machine, possibly employing dynamic res on some games.
prinz_valium
Member
Sony wants one true generational leap as a console.
Microsoft is going with a 2 console in one family of devices approach where one is aimed to keep the "most powerful console" title.
That alone is a major differentiator in strategies.
Bryank75
Banned
Console power is a pissing contest, one will have 12 and the other 13 or something like that. The people making these claims have no details and it’s a 50/50 bet with little to lose.
The fact is that at this point in the power game, talented developers like the ones at Sony are going to increase the gulf in quality between them and mediocre devs.....
Everyone that buys a PlayStation will enjoy the same incredible quality, while Xbox has tiered users.... premium users and budget users, having vastly different experiences.... and if history is anything to go by: weak first party games.
We can also see Xbox is salivating for an all digital future.... which would limit options for gamers and result in thousands of job loses....
The fact is that at this point in the power game, talented developers like the ones at Sony are going to increase the gulf in quality between them and mediocre devs.....
Everyone that buys a PlayStation will enjoy the same incredible quality, while Xbox has tiered users.... premium users and budget users, having vastly different experiences.... and if history is anything to go by: weak first party games.
We can also see Xbox is salivating for an all digital future.... which would limit options for gamers and result in thousands of job loses....
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SonGoku
Member
So that means they will use the best tech available for mass production at the time of release
What makes you think they would skip 7nm+ if it available for mass production at the time of release?
Ar¢tos
Member
Yes, 12-14tf.
OmegaSupreme
advanced basic bitch
I'm betting the power difference between the next xbox and playstation will be similar to this generation. After all its the same company(amd) doing both the cpu and gpu correct?
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
Lets face it, these machines are going to be so strong the average end-user will be hard pressed to spot the advantages. So who has the more powerful chipset is going to be far less of an issue than in this or previous generations.
The reality is that these machines are going to be substantially stronger than most PC's are today, not everyone buys top-of-the-line.
The reality is that these machines are going to be substantially stronger than most PC's are today, not everyone buys top-of-the-line.
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DeepEnigma
Gold Member
I don’t think it will be 40% flip flopping like it did. The higher the flop threshold, etc., the more of diminishing returns.
Maybe 12-20% tops.
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TLZ
Banned
It's weird isn't it. Why release a 4tf for streaming when you can just use the current Xbox S/SAD for that? I hope that 4tf isn't true at all.
Watchu mean? I play with a 800% magnifying glass stuck to my face.
prinz_valium
Member
More expensive. Not enough wafer output for just one console that is selling in the millions. Initial plans were to possibly release in 2019 already.
Microsoft can have Anaconda more expensive, because they have the cheaper Lockhard. They do not need as many chips because the cheaper console will sell more and total sales will be split between 2 consoles. Plan was always to release in 2020.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
God I can’t wait until shit is revealed by both companies.
Vitter.
Member
What I want are games, and Xbox did not bring them this gen. Hoping they will fix it the next one, at least to have more games that rock to play.
Don't remember a generation were basically one of the ¨big three¨ did not have a first party strategy. Don Mattrick brought years of consecuence as they never could manage to rectify on that department.
Still Spencer has winning cards with game pass.
Don't remember a generation were basically one of the ¨big three¨ did not have a first party strategy. Don Mattrick brought years of consecuence as they never could manage to rectify on that department.
Still Spencer has winning cards with game pass.
bitbydeath
Member
If it’s only 4TF though it’s gonna pull down the potential of the more powerful machine.
Third parties would likely skip it so their sales don’t get pulled down with it. Imagine one third party trying to accomodate for it and producing a weak ugly title into comparison to another who skips it and can use the whole 12-14TF for their game.
Maybe it’s just an Xbox One Two and nothing to do with next-gen though.
demigod
Member
Its always Mattrick that takes the fall for something that he didn’t do. You got games dude, 2.5billion dollars worth of games in Minecraft and Gears.
SonGoku
Member
2019 PS5 were just silly rumors, and even if that was the plan at some point it doesn't lock them out of 7nm+ since they still haven't entered production. So that argument is null
So what you are suggesting is MS plans to sell under 1 million Sneks come launch?
I still don't agree with you, but at least that has some logic behind it.
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Shin
Banned
It's all about who wants to pay what (plus availability at the fab), just like Apple will use 5nm next year.
Money makes the world go round. Also while talking about 7nm EUV (should stop calling it + btw) I read some shit over at QQera or Reddit about Sony using 7nm EUV also.
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SonGoku
Member
12TF sure but at 14TF woulnt the gap be too big? what about sub 4k games (CB, 1800p, 1400p etc) in order to mantain parity the 6tf would need to play with sub 1080p resolutions.
bumleforce
Member
If that were true the witcher 3 would look like craps. Its low settings are so bad bit its ultra settings are amazing. Developers will take advantage of hardware. They want to give people with low. And high end skues the chane to play there games
SonGoku
Member
Unless MS inteds to make the Snek $200 more expensive, I dont see how they could hold such an advantage at time of release.
7nm+ is easier to type btw
Shin
Banned
I've tried, more than I should so I'll stop.
EverydayBeast
thinks Halo Infinite is a new graphical benchmark
Sony just answers their fans calls (Party Chat, and the recent gamertag change)
SonGoku
Member
Hey man don't take it the wrong way, im open to different views
The only thing i challenge is the logic behind claims, that's all
Like i can disagree with you but if the logic of your argument is sound, i don't got a problem with it.
Shin
Banned
We discussed the whole breaking the bank thing yesterday or so, yeah?
I don't remember which video from DF it is but they said Microsoft visits AMD often (makes sense considering that their entire business is practically all things PC).
Given the system they put out (from a design perspective and/or money they were willing to spend to achieve it) in XOX I don't find the idea strange that they might be willing to pay for EUV.
IF they end up choosing EUV then there has to be a significant reason for it than "just" 10% gain IIRC over 7nm (you'd have to check TSMC technology report).
Communication is progress as the old saying goes...
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ResilientBanana
Member
It's an exciting time as always. But good lord, it's amazing how many times delusion takes precedence over logic.
Mikey Jr.
Member
Correct. The higher the resolution, the bigger the tv you need to see the differences. Both these machines will do 4k native. 60 fps is up in the air. But both machines will be essentially the same in terms of visuals when it comes to the average user.
Xbox, if stronger, will have an advantage in maybe better lighting or extra AA or something like that. But neither console will be different in terms of one is 30 fps and the other is 60 or even resolution for that matter until maybe late in the gen when devs start pushing the machines to their limit. Thats when you might see differences in res.
Silver Wattle
Gold Member
Most references to the node call it EUV, it's to differentiate between the standard node refinement(+) and the use of the new EUV tools.
prinz_valium
Member
I don't think that rumor had zero weight behind it. Cerny said Ps5 development started in 2015. So it makes sense.
No, not only 1 million at launch, because at launch the early adaptor buy in for nearly any price.
Something like this for example:
Ps5 4 million at launch @ 7nm
Lockhard 2 million at launch @7nm
Anaconda 2 million at launch @7nm+
Ps5 15 million in year 1 @7nm
Lockhard 8 million in year 1 @7nm
Anaconda 4 million in year 1 @7nm+
ResilientBanana
Member
xCloud may do well also, as much as we all dislike streaming, it would be possible to bring next gen to current gen systems that way.
Play anywhere will also allow PC players to play first party titles also. In the end, it’s all about game sales. Why lose money selling only hardware when you can make money hand over fist selling games? I don’t expect Microsoft to be a console selling leader next gen, but I do see their exclusives selling more than ever, especially if they are good.