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[Luigiv]

........................

Maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan, even the PSP Go had 16gb of memory. I'd even bite on the 3G version if that had internal memory. On second though, does the 3DS have any internal memory?

Yeah, Japanese system owners have confirmed that the system comes with 2GB internal plus the 2GB SD card already in the slot.

 

[jcm]

I think the bigger question is what if any storage card will come with the system. I hope a card of one size or another is included with every SKU so that on day one, at least, a separate purchase isn't necessary.

I would say the chances of the low end model including a card are basically zero. They're not going to give away a high margin accessory when they're trying to cut costs to hit a price point.

 

[Graphics Horse]

I would say the chances of the low end model including a card are basically zero. They're not going to give away a high margin accessory when they're trying to cut costs to hit a price point.

Possibly, with game saves and updates going on the game card and all.

They'll throw in a 1-4gb card if they want to pimp the online store though, which is basically the main function of the storage cards.

 

[AranhaHunter]

Based on the slideshow engadget posted, I would say, it's pretty much confirmed that there won't be any internal memory.

I was hoping that it would come with an 8gb or 16gb nand flash card built in like the iPhone, but that seems to be a no go. The presentation repeatedly mentioned that games can be stored/downloaded onto either game card, or a removable storage card.

I don't think that necessarily means that there won't be any internal memory. It would be pretty stupid not to have at least 8GB internal memory for the base SKU IMHO. Even the 3DS and PSPGo have internal memory.

 

[Apath]

I don't think that necessarily means that there won't be any internal memory. It would be pretty stupid not to have at least 8GB internal memory for the base SKU IMHO. Even the 3DS and PSPGo have internal memory.

Why would the PSP Go having internal memory set a precedence for the NGP to follow? Could you imagine if a DL-only system didn't have any internal memory? Imagine the PSP original as the predecessor for the NGP, and the PSP Go simply a branch off of the PSP original in the same way the GB Micro branched off from the GB Advanced.

PSP Go is its own beast -- people need to stop using it as a comparison in terms of NGP's price, memory, etc.

 

[tzare]

I would say the chances of the low end model including a card are basically zero. They're not going to give away a high margin accessory when they're trying to cut costs to hit a price point.

seems fair.
And if savegames can be done in the game card itself then there's no real need for extra storage for the basic SKU.You can play out of the box. If you want to store media you buy a memory card.

 

[Pai Pai Master]

seems fair.
And if savegames can be done in the game card itself then there's no real need for extra storage for the basic SKU.You can play out of the box. If you want to store media you buy a memory card.

There will be plenty of DD-only games like PS3 and XBLA have. You WILL need internal memory or an additional memory card if you want to play all the available games.

 

[dramatis]

Wow, those slides are hilariously bland, but still have decent info.

What does "Single submission" mean?

Single submission refers to the method of how developers submit their games. I spazzed out a bit while they were talking this part, but I think they said all downloadable/game card now have same submission process?

 

[°°ToMmY°°]

There will be plenty of DD-only games like PS3 and XBLA have. You WILL need internal memory or an additional memory card if you want to play all the available games.

definitely. for the core gamer tha base model will be a no go, but for the casual it will be good not to spend more for something they probably won't use, at least in the beginning. then they could simply buy a cart for storage without having to buy a new SKU.

i think it's a nice strategy, in the end. it will make upgrading to a more capable SKU less painful too.

 

[manzo]

mobile gaming is destroying console gaming

mobile gaming is destroying console gaming --> console gaming is destroying pc gaming --> pc gaming is destroying mobile AND console gaming

I'm seeing a pattern here

 

[neptunes]

As long as it cut costs, I'm all for it.

 

[tzare]

definitely. for the core gamer tha base model will be a no go, but for the casual it will be good not to spend more for something they probably won't use, at least in the beginning. then they could simply buy a cart for storage without having to buy a new SKU.

i think it's a nice strategy, in the end. it will make upgrading to a more capable SKU less painful too.

exactly. it is like early microsoft 360 arcade SKU strategy only this time you do not need to buy a memory card to store gamesaves .
I think that is a good way to keep price attractive from start.
Maybe the 3G one will include some storage . Like a NGP Elite or similar.
We will see though, i'd choose GPS for all SKUs over some built in HDD.

 

[°°ToMmY°°]

exactly. it is like early microsoft 360 arcade SKU strategy only this time you do not need to buy a memory card to store gamesaves .
I think that is a good way to keep price attractive from start.
Maybe the 3G one will include some storage . Like a NGP Elite or similar.
We will see though, i'd choose GPS for all SKUs over some built in HDD.

there will probably be 3 SKUs.

base "casual" model with no 3G and internal memory.
normal "core" model with internal memory only.
ultimate "geek" model with both internal memory and 3G.

for the price it will probably be: x for the base, x + 50 for the normal, x + 150 for the ultimate, with x being something that range from 199 to 249. the 3G model could be subsidized with a contract.

 

[googleplex]

exactly. it is like early microsoft 360 arcade SKU strategy only this time you do not need to buy a memory card to store gamesaves .
I think that is a good way to keep price attractive from start.
Maybe the 3G one will include some storage . Like a NGP Elite or similar.
We will see though, i'd choose GPS for all SKUs over some built in HDD.

That and the fact that their memory cards and accessories will probably be sold at a profit. Sony will be more willing to take more of a lost on each unit.

 

[°°ToMmY°°]

is there a way to watch the presentation online? if i recall sony put their old one on the GDC site, is this one there?

 

[Graphics Horse]

So can someone explain the advantage of adding internal memory instead of a removable card?

 

[Apath]

there will probably be 3 SKUs.

base "casual" model with no 3G and internal memory.
normal "core" model with internal memory only.
ultimate "geek" model with both internal memory and 3G.

for the price it will probably be: x for the base, x + 50 for the normal, x + 150 for the ultimate, with x being something that range from 199 to 249. the 3G model could be subsidized with a contract.

Really, three SKUs? Didn't the whole Core, Premium, Elite deal teach us that consumers need less options, not more?

 

[tzare]

there will probably be 3 SKUs.

base "casual" model with no 3G and internal memory.
normal "core" model with internal memory only.
ultimate "geek" model with both internal memory and 3G.

for the price it will probably be: x for the base, x + 50 for the normal, x + 150 for the ultimate, with x being something that range from 199 to 249. the 3G model could be subsidized with a contract.

yeah, probably the geek SKU would only be available via 3G providers, not standard retail you could find on your gamestop.
In fact, the core SKU could be the casual SKU+memory card. Like former psp value pack

 

[Smiles and Cries]

when I first saw the NGP I was in love with the sexiness but I got to say I don't really like this GDC unit

I'll wait to see what the final white one looks like please look the same as the first mock ups

 

[V_Arnold]

So can someone explain the advantage of adding internal memory instead of a removable card?

Patching games individually?
Storing game saves on the games you were playing with?

That is the two that comes in mind, and in that case, even if you play with 1000-10000 games, you never run out of space and if one card breaks, you do not lose all your data (saves, patches, etc)

That is just out of my mind, I do not know yet how patching/save system works on NGP.

 

[gofreak]

Finally watching the Uncharted vid, it's not as clear as it is in some reports that they were explicit about it being 'just a demo', but what is clear is that at the start he says 'we won't take that away from you' - referring to sticks-and-buttons controls. So whether they include touch alternates for some actions or not, I wouldn't sweat it.

Patching games individually?
Storing game saves on the games you were playing with?

I think that's the biggest advantage.

You are possibly going to have more than one removable stick - having to match a particular memory stick to a particular memory card could become a pain over time. Putting all the necessary data on the gamecard makes sense and allows a reasonable amount of save-state and patching without that kind of juggling. It does, though, place limits on how much space the devs have to work with for patching etc. - it'll be interesting to see if Sony allows devs to write patches or DLC to the other stick or not. I'm guessing it will only be allowed in exceptional circumstances.

 

[pharmboy044]

when I first saw the NGP I was in love with the sexiness but I got to say I don't really like this GDC unit

I'll wait to see what the final white one looks like please look the same as the first mock ups

How is this GDC version any different than what we saw at the Playstation Meeting?

 

[Graphics Horse]

Patching games individually?
Storing game saves on the games you were playing with?

That is the two that comes in mind, and in that case, even if you play with 1000-10000 games, you never run out of space and if one card breaks, you do not lose all your data (saves, patches, etc)

That is just out of my mind, I do not know yet how patching/save system works on NGP.

I mean internal memory on the NGP itself like people were talking about above, game based saving is cool.
Both the PS3 and 360 have removable storage, at varying degrees of user-friendliness, so I don't get why people are calling for it to have some fixed memory like the GO.

 

[Magicpaint]

there will probably be 3 SKUs.

base "casual" model with no 3G and internal memory.
normal "core" model with internal memory only.
ultimate "geek" model with both internal memory and 3G.

for the price it will probably be: x for the base, x + 50 for the normal, x + 150 for the ultimate, with x being something that range from 199 to 249. the 3G model could be subsidized with a contract.

Honestly, I'd take that 'base' model.

 

[Pai Pai Master]

So can someone explain the advantage of adding internal memory instead of a removable card?

You can have more of it?

PSP Go's 16GB internal memory is nice because you start out with 16GB and can toss in a 16GB memory stick on top of it. Otherwise you're limited to the max available memory stick size.

 

[H_Prestige]

So can someone explain the advantage of adding internal memory instead of a removable card?

It's better to have both. But I think removable storage alone would be totally fine if Sony were using plain SD cards or memory sticks. But since it is a proprietary card it will cost an assload and come in limited sizes.

 

[MoxManiac]

Damn, was really hoping for internal memory. Any word on what kind of flash card the NGP will take?

 

[tzare]

Patching games individually?
Storing game saves on the games you were playing with?

That is the two that comes in mind, and in that case, even if you play with 1000-10000 games, you never run out of space and if one card breaks, you do not lose all your data (saves, patches, etc)

That is just out of my mind, I do not know yet how patching/save system works on NGP.

well, NGP game cards have 10/20% of their capacity reserved for data saving+DLC/patches, so that would solve the issue.

I still think some basic storage, 1-2GB, could still be available and wouldn't be too expensive for sony to include.

 

[Graphics Horse]

You can have more of it?

That's an acceptable answer, thanks. Although the same could be said of an extra memory card slot.

Damn, was really hoping for internal memory. Any word on what kind of flash card the NGP will take?

Only Sony knows, but they said it will be a proprietry format.

 

[AranhaHunter]

Why would the PSP Go having internal memory set a precedence for the NGP to follow? Could you imagine if a DL-only system didn't have any internal memory? Imagine the PSP original as the predecessor for the NGP, and the PSP Go simply a branch off of the PSP original in the same way the GB Micro branched off from the GB Advanced.

PSP Go is its own beast -- people need to stop using it as a comparison in terms of NGP's price, memory, etc.

Because Sony is trying to sell you games (retail or PSN only), as well as (from the looks of it) lots of DLC on NGP. The device needs at the very least 8GBs of internal memory, it would look real gimped without it. 8GB for base model, 64GB for Premium sounds good to me.

 

[Painraze]

No internal memory? What about DLC, patches, etc?

 

[googleplex]

Damn, was really hoping for internal memory. Any word on what kind of flash card the NGP will take?

It'll most likely be a proprietary and profitable card so a loss on each NGP unit will be easier to swallow.

If Sony has learned any thing from Microsoft this Gen is, don't bother with open standards. People don't appreciate it. Proprietary and profitable is the way to go.

 

[Graphics Horse]

No internal memory? What about DLC, patches, etc?

They are saved on to that game's card. DL games stored to memory cards.

I don't think there's official statement about no storage yet, just no mention of it having any so far.

 

[Pai Pai Master]

No internal memory? What about DLC, patches, etc?

Saved directly to the game media.

 

[Gunsmithx]

I don't think the slides show that there won't be internal storage. I do think however it's proabbly something they are still mulling over and imo could go either way.

That said I find it hard to believe it won't have at least some internal storage or come with a memory card just due to the fact they are pushing the online part so much and you'll want people to be able to just buy it and dl things right out of the box.

 

[charlequin]

I don't understand how this thing isn't going to cost all my limbs and most of my future children.

It uses almost entirely smartphone parts. Everything in it is going to get cheap more quickly than your standard gaming system because they're all going to be manufactured in ginormous quantities for other products.

It's still going to be on the pricey side (I assume we all still agree $300 is pretty pricey for a handheld) but it ought to be able to price drop pretty aggressively without huge losses for Sony.

I might quibble with your cost analysis a bit, but I think we're in the same ballpark, and that's a good as it's likely to get.

Yeah, there's definitely room to maneuver on the actual precise manufacturing price. I'm mostly convinced on $299 because it's a round number that, I think, "sounds good" for the system they're delivering. I think given, say, a $285 manufacturing cost, they'd rather sell at $300 at a slight profit than $250 at a loss, but at a $320 manufacturing cost they'd probably rather take the small hit to stay under the psychological barrier.

I agree entirely that they're not going to be looking at PS3-style bath here, though. The hardware design of the NGP is far, far smarter than the PS3's.

there will probably be 3 SKUs.

I doubt it very much. 3 SKUs has been a failure for pretty much everyone who's tried to do it. It makes much more sense to have a base model at the entry-level price, then do a "deluxe" edition whose selling point is primarily the 3G antenna. If there's a difference in included storage between the two it'll be to massage whatever price difference they want to set up. (Personally, I think they should add 16GB of storage to the deluxe version and sell it for $100 extra -- that'd guarantee them a good profit on the device day one and I suspect most people interested in the 3G model would be fine paying that markup.)

 

[BladeoftheImmortal]

Really, three SKUs? Didn't the whole Core, Premium, Elite deal teach us that consumers need less options, not more?

DS seems to be doing fine with 3 SKUs.

 

[tzare]

No internal memory? What about DLC, patches, etc?

 

[H_Prestige]

I don't think the slides show that there won't be internal storage. I do think however it's proabbly something they are still mulling over and imo could go either way.

That said I find it hard to believe it won't have at least some internal storage or come with a memory card just due to the fact they are pushing the online part so much and you'll want people to be able to just buy it and dl things right out of the box.

Yeah, that French leak so far has bee right on the money with everything and they said it would have 8-16gb of storage built in. Maybe it is something Sony is still figuring out so they haven't said anything official yet.

It would be awkward to ship a system that is supposed to get people to buy things from PSN (and Sony definitely wants this above everything else) without any storage, unless each system comes included with a storage card. Maybe the rumored 8-16gb isn't built in but refers to the flash card bundled with the system?

Also, does this "single submission" stuff mean that every retail NGP game will be on PSN as well, or is Sony still leaving that as a choice?

 

[Graphics Horse]

Also, does this "single submission" stuff mean that every retail NGP game will be on PSN as well, or is Sony still leaving that as a choice?

It's probably not something they can force, just making it easier to encourage it.

 

[IonicSnake]

Yoshida said in a gamespot interview that all of Sonys firstparty games will be on PSN and that the bigger games will come on these cards as well.

 

[The Abominable Snowman]

Honestly, fuck internal memory. 32GB sdmicro cards are cheap. 64GB coming soonish.

I'm more interested in the format of those 'proprietary' memstick slots. It looked like a standard SDmicro to me...

 

[gofreak]

It's probably not something they can force, just making it easier to encourage it.

I think they are basically forcing it. In interviews they've basically said that every game will be on the PSN store, with a subset of those games also being available on game cards at retail.

edit - dunno though if they were just referring to first party or not per IonicSnake's post...maybe they were, I cannot recall of the top of my head.

 

[Graphics Horse]

I think they are basically forcing it. In interviews they've basically said that every game will be on the PSN store, with a subset of those games also being available on game cards at retail.

Hm.. I thought Yoshida said every SCE game would be, but I've not been keeping up with the interviews.

I'm more interested in the format of those 'proprietary' memstick slots. It looked like a standard SDmicro to me...

The slot things on the top of the unit are like an inch and a half wide each. I certainly wouldn't want games to be SD micro sized, but I might be alone there.

 

[Shanadeus]

No memory stick or internal memory?
I doubt that after 3DS being shown to handle SD-cards.

 

[charlequin]

DS seems to be doing fine with 3 SKUs.

Rolled out one by one over the course of four years, with different feature sets and even form factors. Pretty different from trying to do three slightly feature-distinct price-differentiated SKUs at once, which no one has really had good results with.

(It also doesn't really have three SKUs in Japan, they pretty much only have the DSis there now.)

 

[Barkley's Justice]

It sounds like it works like this - you can send a locked box with a game item/gift inside to a friend, then leave a key 'somewhere', and tell them to go find it to open the box.

I'm guessing you may also be able to leave down items for anyone to pick up in specific locations.

Sony or game developers could also put out perhaps more substantial gifts in specific locations for people to find. For example when a new PSN game is out, they could put some codes out there for people to find to promote the game or whatever (i.e. codes that can be redeemed for a copy of the game).

those screen shots are making me claustrophobic.

 

[Stephen Colbert]

I don't think that necessarily means that there won't be any internal memory. It would be pretty stupid not to have at least 8GB internal memory for the base SKU IMHO. Even the 3DS and PSPGo have internal memory.

I think it's more about combating piracy than shaving costs.

Say the only memory cards you can buy are proprietry memory cards from sony, that's the only way you can store stuff on the device, and those cards will probably only be cheap for 4gbs or so. Large storage cards will likely be very expensive.

It wouldn't be worth it for pirates to rip two 2gb NGP games onto one 4gb propriety card. And it would only barely be worth it for them to spend a $100 on a 16gb card just to store 8 pirated NGP games on it.

However, the 4gb propriety card should be enough to store a rental movie for a day or two, and store dozens of PSN games and PS One games, and a few PS two games too.

 

[Apath]

Because Sony is trying to sell you games (retail or PSN only), as well as (from the looks of it) lots of DLC on NGP. The device needs at the very least 8GBs of internal memory, it would look real gimped without it. 8GB for base model, 64GB for Premium sounds good to me.

So? The PSP original also offers games at the retail and digital levels. PSP Go = DL only. Hence it was necessary for it to always have storage. No storage = no games. NGP does not have this problem, so having storage is not as necessary.

Not saying it won't, but I wouldn't base expectations on the PSP Go.

DS seems to be doing fine with 3 SKUs.

Yeah, I guess that is true. But at the same time not only did all three release at different times, but they are quite literally different pieces of hardware.

 

[Fafalada]

that's the only way you can store stuff on the device, and those cards will probably only be cheap for 4gbs or so. Large storage cards will likely be very expensive.

That's called people not buying your system, though I suppose you can classify that as a form of anti-piracy scheme...

We live in a world where 16GB cards are 20$, even Sony's MemorySticks. A year from now, you'll have 32GB microSD cards under 50$.