dragonflys545
Member
I vaguely remember that the game didn't not have inverted control for the bow.
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Ninja Gaiden Black still the best action game
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I dont think you played MGR enough then. The game has more depth than a good deal of action titles this gen.
ThoughtsOfSpeaking
Banned
Hold up there partner.
The sigmas ARE improvements in some ways, its just they introduce new problems as well.
Its a perfectly legitimate opinion to prefer Sigma 2 over NG2 and NGS is probably this generations best HD update.
I love all versions and I think as a Ninja gaiden fan you should play them all. They are all different enough to warrant a playthrough.
This man gets it.
if the hurricane packs were still up, id hunt down an original Xbox with vanilla NG too. The series is that good.
I love DMC3SE, but ive never felt the urge to play the original DMC3.
Roll should be the default method of traversal. The slide should be mapped to individual weapons like in the previous games. Dodge should only be when blades clash and you evade at the last second (with the shadow images of ryu).
Roll, Jump, roll for life.
Robot Pants
Member
No I did everything there is to do.
I started a new game Revengeance playthough and S ranked the whole thing up to R02, but it just got tiresome. Retrying over and over and getting lucky not to get hit by a stray bullet for an S rank even though I destroyed everything else, got tiresome.
The wooden sword was a cool idea, but not as fleshed out as it could have been.
I may go back, but the game didn't hook me like every other (good) action game I've played.
MidnightCowboy
Member
Ninja Gaiden 2 has better combat than the first. It's so fast and relentless, better weapons too. Other elements are worse than Black but in that area it is better.
angels.phillipe
Neo Member
yes, i agree... DMC 3 is beautifull to play... and more addictive than NG....
iconoclast
Member
Pretty much. Rising has a lot of potential; the sequel could be amazing if they're given enough time to expand & improve on their ideas.
I think it's impressive that they managed to put together a good & unique action game in a little over a year, even though it's very light on content. I know it's not saying much, but it's the 3rd best action game this gen imo (#1 and #2 being NG2 and Bayonetta respectively).
Wasn't that the story behind the PS2 port?
I don't know why they'd work that hard on a port. Maybe I'm mixed up on which version, but I don't know.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
I'm not a fan of NG2 either(probably my most disapointing game of 2008, tbh), but I understand the appeal(combat-combat-combat). I just prefer the smaller scale encounters/level design/framerate/off-screen projectile content from NGB
The original JP PS2 version, yes (DoA2: Hardcore was their attempt to fix that).
BeautifulMemory
Member
NGB and NGS also had challenge missions 1v1 against fiend ryu wielding all sorts of weapons. Dragon sword, lunar, talon, and my favorite dabilahro
TheFLYINGManga_Ka
Member
Heavenly Sword! I still remember the insane hype it had when it was first revealed along with the PS3. 
Bayonetta is my personal favorite.
Bayonetta is my personal favorite.
When did God Hand become an action game that is comparable to NG, DMC, and Bayo? WTF. I always assumed it was in it's own league of beat em ups. If this is the case, why does anyone even talk about the other games? God Hand is so far above every other game ever, this thread, and most threads about games at all, are moot.
Yoshichan
And they made him a Lord of Cinder. Not for virtue, but for might. Such is a lord, I suppose. But here I ask. Do we have a sodding chance?
Yeah, God Hand is definitely superior - but it's always good with competition and it fires up discussions easily!
The name "character action" has been brandied about for a while, and I think it's very appropriate. In normal beat-em-ups or hack and slash games, usually have very simple rules or a multiple characters that all have similar movesets with minor variations and statistical differences. In a character action game, there is an intrinsic relationship between the character you control and the way the game is played compared to any other similar game in the genre. Dante is an ostentatious showboater, and that's reflected in his moves and, accordingly, the entire game and scoring system that rewards you for being as flashy as possible. Ninja Gaiden's Ryu is conversely taciturn and ruthless, and his game and scoring is focused on brutal efficiency and killing everyone as quickly as possible. DMC's weapons are all equally viable in every situation and exist merely to give the player new avenues for stylishness, and in NG weapons are more like tools which all have different strengths when trying to be as efficient as possible.
Games like DMC, NG, MGR, God Hand, etc are all defined by the character first and foremost, so acknowledging that in the genre name seems fitting. In a character action game, the character is the game.
That's how I see it, at least.
Riposte
Member
I don't like the idea of excluding God Hand (or MadWorld or Anarchy Reigns) because they are called "Beat 'em ups". I don't see the distinction. (I'm also steadfastly opposed to any genre or sub-genre have the words "em up" in their name.)
That said, there is probably a small one to be made between games with free moving aerial combat (which would include Anarchy Reigns and Bayonetta, etc) versus games where the player is stuck to the ground (which would include God Hand and also games like the Batman Arkham ones). The difference can be boiled down to one group of games being limited to a single plane. It probably shouldn't be a priority to separate games like this if you were looking to rank the best 3D action game combat systems.
That said, there is probably a small one to be made between games with free moving aerial combat (which would include Anarchy Reigns and Bayonetta, etc) versus games where the player is stuck to the ground (which would include God Hand and also games like the Batman Arkham ones). The difference can be boiled down to one group of games being limited to a single plane. It probably shouldn't be a priority to separate games like this if you were looking to rank the best 3D action game combat systems.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
Can we include the 2d ones? Streets of Rage Remake > most games mentioned in this conversation, including God Hand
Godhand is not superior to the other top action games. A lot of the moves are super exploitable and can beat any enemy in the game because they all share similar AI even some of the bosses. It does a bring a lot of interesting mechanics to the table but the depth in the game is vastly overrated. Just like a lot of the action games with a ton of moves Godhand runs into the problem of certain moves that are just way better than most others including some that break the game. I have beaten Godhand on the hardest using just dodge and a weave move along with the occasional guard break and supers. Unlike the DMC games there is no incentive to mix up moves so you are rewarded for move spam and the enemies are incapable of dealing with certain types of moves.
Well if you asked me, going by my definition of character action I'd say no, because the multiple characters don't have any traits that influence or bring anything unique to the design of the game. There is no individual focus on any of them and they all pretty much play the same.
It's not a very technical metric to define a genre, but it works for me.
R
Retro_
Unconfirmed Member
I don't think that's the case at all. Especially in my favorite games in the genre
go play Battle Circuit if you think that
Did you KMS it?
Anyone can beat the game with godreels
ViewtifulJC
Banned
This post makes Tain cry
nailbombxx
Member
PlatinumGames really needs to make a (single-player) spiritual successor to God Hand.
R
Retro_
Unconfirmed Member
Nah I'd rather they keep surprising me with shit I've never played before
God Hand is timeless I can always just go back and play that
This didn't work against NGB and it isn't going to work against God Hand.
"Move balance" isn't needed beyond a certain point in a single player game. You chose to ruin it for yourself by slogging through it in the most rote and mechanical way possible.
nailbombxx
Member
ViewtifulJC
Banned
Yes Man Kablaam, too good
although I always preferred to just keep mixing up my moves to do whatever I wanted
although I always preferred to just keep mixing up my moves to do whatever I wanted
R
Retro_
Unconfirmed Member
What a lazy way of thinking.....
Ninja Gaiden Black is the way it is because of re balancing based on the original and hurricane packs
Wonder why intercept isn't in black? Devs thought it was too strong
Move balance is part of design. To ignore it is to just close your eyes to the flaws in your game and how it could be better
Agreed. (I actually think "3D beat 'em up" is a decent name for this entire genre, since I can see the lineage from arcade beat 'em ups like Final Fight all the way to games like DMC, but that term seems to conjure something more specific for a lot of people.)
The trick in these kinds of genre ranking discussions (and in the definition of genres in general) is choosing the appropriate level of specificity. Make your definition too narrow, and every game is a beautiful and unique snowflake, and you have no basis for comparisons. Make it too broad, and it's apples and oranges, and comparisons are again difficult.
I think lumping together 2D and 3D games is too broad. That's a pretty big distinction.
I see what you're getting at, but I'm not sure this distinction works. I see no reason you couldn't have a game with multiple selectable characters with very distinct movesets, that was otherwise comparable to these games.
Playing the game in the most abusive way possible isn't rewarded just as much as it isn't punished. The fact that God Hand can be completed in a multitude of ways on the highest difficulty where a ton of moves and strategies are viable is what makes it an engaging experience that can be tailored to any specific player.
Riposte
Member
There is a fine line one must walk.
I would say that one should follow their instincts in the search of fun. This will involve a fair amount of exploration within a combat system even if there are solutions which kills variety. This means we would judge not only the depth of how unbalance a game is (when it results in a shallower game), but how invasive it is. Games which turn up shallow because of fundamental systems suffer more than games which have overpowering combos and exploits. It seems almost inevitable for a 3D action games to suffer balance flaws (at least more so than the case with 2D action games), but I find existing (playing) within a 3D action game system much more rewarding.
See You Next Wednesday
Banned
LOL
Bayonetta & MG Rising are below average button mashers compared to Ninja Gaiden Black (and DMC 3).
What's even worse are people naming Ninja Theory's garbage games in the same sentence as Ninja Gaiden.
nailbombxx
Member
NGB is in a league of itself the same way God Hand is. Its hard to compare it to DMC3 and Bayonetta because the game design is distinctly different stylistically...
They are all god-tier games. I just think Bayonetta is a better package.
LOL.
Did you play on easy automatic?
They are all god-tier games. I just think Bayonetta is a better package.
LOL.
Did you play on easy automatic?
Intercept was also an immediately available and apparent mechanic that was blatantly damaging to the game. It is not the same as playing through the game using the moves you determined to be the most suitable in ruining it after x-amount of hours.
It's like Riposte said:
Riposte said:
R
Retro_
Unconfirmed Member
Right. but one's individual pursuit of fun doesn't really have a place in a discussion about the quality of a game's design.
I agree with what Riposte said (minus that balance issues are inevitable in these games. I don't think imbalance to the extent of NG and God Hand is typical for the genre) but I don't think Dahbomb's criticism of move balance should be dismissed as irrelevant because playing that way "isn't fun".
I agree with what Riposte said (minus that balance issues are inevitable in these games. I don't think imbalance to the extent of NG and God Hand is typical for the genre) but I don't think Dahbomb's criticism of move balance should be dismissed as irrelevant because playing that way "isn't fun".
what in the fuck is this nonsense.
Apparently you have a different, unique definition for "button masher" that no one in the world shares.
You could, but there is probably a very good reason why it doesn't happen in games like this. When it does, they're usually added well after the design and fundamentals have been established and then they're mostly functional clones of the main character, like the Ninja Gaiden Sigma girls. Nero is an interesting case and plays pretty uniquely despite being mostly a stripped down Dante with certain abilities replaced with contextual moves and just frame attacks.
The idea was just to try and come up with a distinct sub-genre that fit games like DMC and NGB. 3D action is very broad, and hack and slash is more evocative of simpler games like Musou/Ninety-Nine Nights.
See You Next Wednesday
Banned
Played on normal in Bayonetta & was able to spam the YYYYY combo for every enemy & every boss.
Been watching some MG Rising walkthroughs & it looks to be the same.
R
Retro_
Unconfirmed Member
I think the biggest misconception in this thread about these games is that difficulty should only come in the form of completion
For games like Bayonetta and DMC a simple completion of the highest difficulty level is only meant to be a first step. A ways off from mastery of what the game has to offer
Saying a game is a button masher is a reflection of your skill level and how you choose to play a game, not a reflection of the game's quality.
I had a love, hate relationship with the game. I remember cussing a lot.
Was asked why I played and what can I say it was fun.
Not a Hatch and slash fan yet I agree. God of War 1-3 were good, but I never could love one individually more than Black. The GoW titles are a ton better as a series, but as a game Ninja Gaiden Black is a game play masterpiece. Oh and big o titties.
Was asked why I played and what can I say it was fun.
Not a Hatch and slash fan yet I agree. God of War 1-3 were good, but I never could love one individually more than Black. The GoW titles are a ton better as a series, but as a game Ninja Gaiden Black is a game play masterpiece. Oh and big o titties.
Move balance is needed to make move choices have impact and give the game depth. It's why so many people consider DMC3SE to be the best action game ever created because the balance is impeccable. All these games are played at high skill level and that's where the depth is extrapolated.
I didn't ruin the game for myself by using a few moves to cheese through the game, I used a method of play that is the safest and most efficient in a game. It didn't require much skill or thought hence why move balance is important in these single player games.
It's not irrelevant, it's just not very important. There is a difference.
Supermanisdead
Member
Except God of War.
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