This is a good question for me to ask, I'm definitely not as deep into the NG franchise as other action franchises. So I have to ask, how good is Sigma compared to Black? Would you recommend picking up one over the other?
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Ninja Gaiden Black still the best action game
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This is a good question for me to ask, I'm definitely not as deep into the NG franchise as other action franchises. So I have to ask, how good is Sigma compared to Black? Would you recommend picking up one over the other?
I usually don't. God Hand, much like Viewtiful Joe the First, stands in separate and awesome classes all of their own.
It's too bad that we'll likely never get games quite like them ever again.
It's pretty much the same game with better graphics and more content.
AcceptableGhost
Member
sigma is like black except with stuff added to make it worse
literally everything added to sigma was a negative between bad new enemies and terrible rachel sections
NGB is still the definitive NG1 experience
Edit: It has "better graphics" but most of the improvements come from running at HD rather than new assets, it still largely looks like an XBOX game (although NGB was like the best looking XBOX game). Also it has more loading, including MID AREA LOADING SCREENS in the main town - horrible.
DR2K
Banned
Some people like games that look, run, and play better. Yes, get the Sigma games if you can, so freaking good.
Yes, yes because only your opinion is right.
Muchi Muchi Pink
Member
Disc plays fine. Team Ninja intro and some cut scenes are glitched. GoD version is superior.
Edith: Black runs at 60fps without any drops, how is sigma running better? Also AI is broken in sigma. Sigma 2 is just plain bad. So much areas without any enemy encounters where in vanilla you gotta sweat already. The lowered amount of enemies was balanced through more hp. But due to the new core mechanics in ng2 it was pointless compared to black, where it made sense.
AcceptableGhost
Member
ng sigma 2 runs bad and has significantly less enemies
worst of both worlds!
my first time playing through sigma 2 I went through normal and mentor without dying at all and master ninja is super lazy with one hit kill grabs (yet still piss easy). between that and ninja gaiden 3 it seems like hayashi has a huge hard on for high damage grabs for some reason.
Edit: The only reason the sigma games are still great games is because the core games still shine through all the horrible shit that was done to them. Ninja Gaiden 3 is what happens when the Sigma team is left to their own devices.
Vade
Member
Black is the superior title because of the: lack luster addition of Rachel, the removal of many puzzles and too much streamlining, and uninteresting addditional enemies. These are the big issues.
To me the ticy tac issues are: no theater mode to view the FMVs, say what you want about Team Ninja they made some amazing cutscenes, loading times far more often and time wise than the xbox, Doku Chapter 2 fight breaks the original story.
And some people don't like when the pacing of the game goes to shit due to irrelevant content additions. At least sigma 1 was like that, that's why I never bothered with Z2.
I don't get why Sigma 2 gets so much shit. To me it made NG2 playable.
Sure I loved the gore in NG2 but it made game struggle in terms of framerate, Sigma 2 is steady 60fps and it almost never dips. It took out the worm fight which was complete bullshit, I don't think It dumbed down the difficulty more like it was balanced to make it fun the IS ninja spam got fucking annoying In NG2. The only bad thing are the rachel/momiji/ayane levels, which feel like artificially padding game length.
Sure it's nowhere near Black (then again what action game is) but I enjoyed it massively.
Sure I loved the gore in NG2 but it made game struggle in terms of framerate, Sigma 2 is steady 60fps and it almost never dips. It took out the worm fight which was complete bullshit, I don't think It dumbed down the difficulty more like it was balanced to make it fun the IS ninja spam got fucking annoying In NG2. The only bad thing are the rachel/momiji/ayane levels, which feel like artificially padding game length.
Sure it's nowhere near Black (then again what action game is) but I enjoyed it massively.
R
Retro_
Unconfirmed Member
I think it's more like the majority of them are red herrings that the game doesn't seem to be designed around the use of
While DMC's design philosophy has always been "play how you want" and getting out of the game what you put in.
The different weapons in NGB are like different tools with a different purpose. The different weapons in DMC3 and different styles are almost entirely different characters suited to different playstyles for different people. I think there's way more freedom of play in DMC.
and then there's Bayonetta which through the implementation of dodge offset finally made an action game where completing long strings was not only viable, but encouraged through the scoring system. So not only did the developers make using those strings viable, but they designed their game around their use. (while NGB just....has them)
I think there's decent dialogue to be had comparing the encounter design of the 3 games. but I don't think NG fans really have a leg to stand on arguing about moveset quality. NG has alot of filler strings that no player is ever going to use because there's no incentive to do so in the game. Especially as difficulty goes up.
every Jeanne fight is locked inside of a stage.
It probably takes less time to clear space harrier than the stages to get to any of her other fights
I'll never understand this complaint
every Jeanne fight is the same anyways
D
Deleted member 126221
Unconfirmed Member
As a pretty big fan of Bayonetta/DMC/MGR/God Hand, I REALLY have to try that game.
I know that Black>Sigma (Plus), but is the difference big enough to make it worth unboxing my OG Xbox and track a copy of the game, or will I have a comparable experience on the PS3/Vita versions?
I know that Black>Sigma (Plus), but is the difference big enough to make it worth unboxing my OG Xbox and track a copy of the game, or will I have a comparable experience on the PS3/Vita versions?
BeautifulMemory
Member
I give sigma a pass solely on the fact that 1) it helped the wait for DMC4, 2) cutscenes and loading notwithstanding, it was in glorious HD and 60 fps
Imo in order of best to worst (or most to least enjoyable):
1) Black
2) DMC3:SE = Bayonetta
3) DMC1 = NGΣ
4) DMC4 = NGΣ2
5) NG2
6) NGΣ+
7) NG3:RE = NGΣ2+
8) NG3
9) DMC2.
Haven't played Rising, the GoW series, or DmC yet.
EDIT: I should say that the only games I consider to be mediocre or worse are below number 6. Just because NG2 is number 5 doesn't make it horrible.
1) Black
2) DMC3:SE = Bayonetta
3) DMC1 = NGΣ
4) DMC4 = NGΣ2
5) NG2
6) NGΣ+
7) NG3:RE = NGΣ2+
8) NG3
9) DMC2.
Haven't played Rising, the GoW series, or DmC yet.
EDIT: I should say that the only games I consider to be mediocre or worse are below number 6. Just because NG2 is number 5 doesn't make it horrible.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
It's pretty simple, Retro. The other stages are good, the Space Harrier stage is not. And that Jeanne fight is similar to the other ones, but the final one is the most complex and the most interesting.
But I know you never understand that complaint. You a one man Platinum Games defense force, no complaint is valid to you.
Smelly Tramp
Member
having played ng sigma, all the dmcs, all the gows i'd have to say ninja gaidens combat is by far the best out of them all.
however i've never completed it, weird huh? i've completed all the other games...
however i've never completed it, weird huh? i've completed all the other games...
R
Retro_
Unconfirmed Member
No I understand that.
What I don't understand is how overblown it is of a complaint on here. To the point where every time the game is mentioned in any thread hyperbolic statements are made describing it as ruining the entire product for them.
It's like people are more interested in reiterating the same tired talking points and patting each other on the back for it than making any substantive and original criticism of their own about the game.
That's what I don't understand, and what frustrates me to no end when talking about Bayonetta on here. It's like that's the only thing people remember about the game
Well she has a few more moves
but the basic strategy for fighting her is the same in every encounter.
Balder/Rodin are the only good boss fights in the game.
but for the most part the bosses are the weakest aspect of Bayonetta. Even the Jeanne fights
What I don't understand is how overblown it is of a complaint on here. To the point where every time the game is mentioned in any thread hyperbolic statements are made describing it as ruining the entire product for them.
It's like people are more interested in reiterating the same tired talking points and patting each other on the back for it than making any substantive and original criticism of their own about the game.
That's what I don't understand, and what frustrates me to no end when talking about Bayonetta on here. It's like that's the only thing people remember about the game
Well she has a few more moves
but the basic strategy for fighting her is the same in every encounter.
Balder/Rodin are the only good boss fights in the game.
but for the most part the bosses are the weakest aspect of Bayonetta. Even the Jeanne fights
Angelus Errare
Banned
For me
Bayo = DMC3:SE > NGB
Bayo = DMC3:SE > NGB
Good man. Good man. I like the way you list.
I could get behind this list. Rising would probably be around DMC1 for me.
Takamura-San
Member
As someone who loves NGB, the game can be beaten with 2 moves (minus bosses). Izuna drop and frying swallow.
B-blasphemy...
Neff
Member
I already agree on one of your points and the other is looking very likely.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
Augemitbutter
Member
didn't remove the difficulty. if you think reducing off screen projectiles is removing difficulty, you must have some warped priorities. they removed slowdown and unnecessary water combat and added so much more. one of the best additions to a game for this generation. there is so much new content, it's insane. it's NG2 complete edition. i'm happy it happened.
fantastic game.
While i dislike, the game for not having as much content and not having as good level design as 3, i love dmc4's combat the most.
Behold one of the greatest action game-play mechanics of all time
Effective, empowering , bad-ass, functional.
I like ninja guiden too, but damn this arm is amazing.
Behold one of the greatest action game-play mechanics of all time
Effective, empowering , bad-ass, functional.
I like ninja guiden too, but damn this arm is amazing.
This opinion is spreading like wildfire.
SmokedMeat
Gamer™
I'd take Bayonetta over Ninja Gaiden any day of the week.
fi1ip
Member
What is amazing to me is how Itagaki's vision for a sequel to such an amazing game that was NGB, actually delivers and improves on so many things that were already good. And yes I'm saying vision and not execution, we all know unfortunately NGII was not properly finished.
I wish Itagaki and his team had the chance to make NGII Black, with the frame rate and balance of NGB and NGII's vastly more versatile combat. That could have been THE action title of this generation.
I wish Itagaki and his team had the chance to make NGII Black, with the frame rate and balance of NGB and NGII's vastly more versatile combat. That could have been THE action title of this generation.
Personally, if you're not terribly picky about extra content being added, Sigma/plus at their core are still based on the mechanics of NGB. You just have to play through some extra Rachel stages, and some parts are easier.
Muchi Muchi Pink
Member
Agreed. Sigma 2 is utter shit. Fixed some stuff, but was inferior in most parts. Hell even the loading switching weapons and opening chest are in sigma2. Which was fixed in vanilla through installing on HDD. And sigma2 has a mandatory install. What happened here?
I like how everyone accredits Itagaki for NGB, when the project lead for that game was actually Yousuke Hayashi.
To give an analogy to what's the difference between the project lead and director of a game, look at SkullGirls. Mike Z is the project lead while Alex Ahad was the director for the game, and the game design choices were all handled by Mke Z. Just something I'm throwing out there.
To give an analogy to what's the difference between the project lead and director of a game, look at SkullGirls. Mike Z is the project lead while Alex Ahad was the director for the game, and the game design choices were all handled by Mke Z. Just something I'm throwing out there.
Yeah...that's because he wasn't.
Directors:
Tomonobu Itagaki
Hiroaki Matsui
Yasuo Egawa (graphics)
Makoto Hosoi (sound)
Yuki Naruse (motion)
Producers:
Tomonobu Itagaki
Designers:
Masanori Sato,
Noriaki Kazama,
Katsunori Ehara (planners)
Kenichiro Nakajo (scenery)
Yoshiki Horiuchi (characters)
Project Lead:
Takeshi Kawaguchi
Hayashi was lead and director for the Sigma versions and Ninja Shitfest 3, respectively.
And also, even though Itagaki is "only a producer" as you put it, the entire vision of the game was his. A vision which he communicated very well with his team. And it makes sense too. After he left, roughly 80% of the talent left with him to form his new studio. That speaks volumes to the amount of influence he had.
brotherbean
Member
I've been wondering lately whether or not NGB has held up over the years. I pretty much skipped most of NG2 as well as NG3 so I have no idea if NGB's utter perfection of the genre is simply nostalgia talking or if I'd still love it today.
One way to find out I suppose...
One way to find out I suppose...
R
Retro_
Unconfirmed Member
Yeah I'm surprised by both how popular Ninja Gaiden is on here and how many people seem to be throwing DMC3 under the bus as of late.
Same.
and right now I think that's a good place to be. Being a Bayonetta fan is looking alot better than being a Ninja Gaiden fan for the foreseeable future.
Yeah, exactly. The greatest misconception that gained traction ever is that NG has a bad camera. I heard the same for NG2.
You can invert it horizontally, vertically or both. You can change the speed it pans or tilts. You can hit a button to instantly center it behind Ryu. You can go first person to look around.
What else should they add that would make the camera good for people? You have complete control over it at all times.
The only other option would be to have a static camera that's out far away like God of War or something, and that sounds pretty awful for this series. The reality is that the camera is perfectly fine. People just suck at controlling it. It would be better if people just admitted that. It's a difficult game. No one would make fun of you for it.
Muchi Muchi Pink
Member
Hayashi was combat and AI programmer if I remember correctly.
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