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[civilstrife]

If 3DS really does have gamecube-level graphics, wouldn't that make Nintendo the first company to have a handheld and home console that output the same level of graphics?

Could we see cross-platform releases?

 

[Jme]

Forgive the sloppy nature of this mock, but it was quick and it got the point/idea across.

What if the clamshell does not cover the controls? It would free up both room for placement and allow for analog much better.

It's not to scale or anything, just a rough sketch but, picture a SNES pad, or a Classic Controller but with a screen in the middle.

 

[The Technomancer]

Forgive the sloppy nature of this mock, but it was quick and it got the point/idea across.

What if the clamshell does not cover the controls? It would free up both room for placement and allow for analog much better.

It's not to scale or anything, just a rough sketch but, picture a SNES pad, or a Classic Controller but with a screen in the middle.

Hm, now that's actually interesting. I hadn't considered that, but do the "wings" on either side of the current DS top screen do anything besides house the speakers?

 

[Koren]

wouldn't that make Nintendo the first company to have a handheld and home console that output the same level of graphics?

Nintendo is copying Nec!

And also a bit Sega, even if I think that Nomad was 1995 (?)

(And I'm pretty sure there was a portable SNES, even if it was very very rare and I don't have any picture)

(also stealth troll? )

 

[Medalion]

If 3DS really does have gamecube-level graphics, wouldn't that make Nintendo the first company to have a handheld and home console that output the same level of graphics?

Could we see cross-platform releases?

You're assuming Nintendo will make another home console with Gamecube/Wii-graphics... I don't think they can afford to go another gen with that move, they are not that far up their own ass, especially a jump to 3D for a portable.

 

[m.i.s.]

You get it. That's a good analogy. The reason why touch screen worked was because it's a handheld thing, something that couldn't be replicated for the console. There's no real point in adding dual analog except for copying control schemes of console games, which is exactly what Nintendo is trying to avoid. They want to bring new ways to experience games, not existing ways.

Not only that but can you imagine the post-Wii Nintendo actually adding dual controllers on top of their exisitng d-pad? That would intimidate and most certainly alienate many, many new and casual gamers that have never bought a gaming machine of any kind before the DS.

 

[curls]

Forgive the sloppy nature of this mock, but it was quick and it got the point/idea across.

What if the clamshell does not cover the controls? It would free up both room for placement and allow for analog much better.

It's not to scale or anything, just a rough sketch but, picture a SNES pad, or a Classic Controller but with a screen in the middle.

No no no, it will be more iPod than Gamecube controller.

 

[Jme]

Forgive the sloppy nature of this mock, but it was quick and it got the point/idea across.

What if the clamshell does not cover the controls? It would free up both room for placement and allow for analog much better.

It's not to scale or anything, just a rough sketch but, picture a SNES pad, or a Classic Controller but with a screen in the middle.

Here's another sloppy photoshop. The controller button spacing would need to be tightened but you get the general idea.

 

[ShinNL]

Not only that but can you imagine the post-Wii Nintendo actually adding dual controllers on top of their exisitng d-pad? That would intimidate and most certainly alienate many, many new and casual gamers that have never bought a gaming machine of any kind before the DS.

Yeah, they were hesitant to add a d-pad and buttons to the original DS. They definitely won't add nubs that the PSP has. My guess it would be an invisible input similar to all the current additions (mic, camera, accelerometer), which won't scare people away since they don't see it. Buttons scare people. And let's be honest, only old-style players want that (I don't even want to call these people hardcore, since I call myself pretty hardcore but I think adding nubs is pointless).

The question is, what would they add to make the 3D amazing? Knowing Nintendo, the new 3DS won't be just about that. It has to be some godly combination that only Nintendo can think of. But it's almost impossible to guess it in a few weeks time. This company pays people to research and develop every day. That's a lot of hours of brilliant thoughts.

 

[Majine]

One thing is certain: This will be a wierd E3 conference. :lol

How will they show gameplay? The people are sitting several meters from the guy on stage. So many questions.

 

[Nimyh]

If 3DS really does have gamecube-level graphics, wouldn't that make Nintendo the first company to have a handheld and home console that output the same level of graphics?
Could we see cross-platform releases?

You could argue that Sony beat them to it with many PS2 games being ported to PSP and vice versa.

 

[Shiggy]

Here's another sloppy photoshop. The controller button spacing would need to be tightened but you get the general idea.

3DS going to be as large as the Wii? :lol

 

[Snakeyes]

Assuming that the 3DS will output more or less GC quality graphics with a good 3D technology and the PSP2 will have performance closer to a 360 than an Xbox (but no 3D)... Which side will the graphics fetishists pick?

 

[poppabk]

My guess is a stylus that they can detect in 3D space, through IR and/or camera tracking, for the bottom screen and then a 3D top screen. If you offset the plane of the 3D screen from the plane of detection of the stylus, you could allow manipulation of objects in the screen by a rendered representation of the stylus.

 

[civilstrife]

You know, I think GAF and the gaming community at large have a very strange perception of risk taking.

People here really thought that adding touch screen control to a handheld videogame console was risky. To me, it sounded like a natural evolution.

I think being gamers and generally tech-hungry people, we look at a concept like 3DS and think that the mass market will think it's as cool as we do. I think people are underestimating how risky it is to bank the design of your console around a singular, purely visual upgrade. I could easily see the throngs of current casual DS owners not finding glasses-free 3D as enticing as we do, or enough of a reason to upgrade.

Of course, I think 3D is likely only one facet in Nintendo's overall strategy with this device. And their first step in releasing these blue ocean devices seem to be targeting their core audience. ie. Mario 64 DS, Metroid Prime Hunters demo, Zelda: Twilight Princess.

Another thought is that we are now entering a "super" generation. When paradigm shifting changes are eschewed in favor of incremental upgrades to existing mechanics.

IE.

NES---->SuperNES
N64---->Gamecube
Wii------>???

GB/GBC----->GBA
NDS------>3DS

 

[RevoDS]

OK I did a redo of my edit.

I made the D-pad bigger.
I made two analog sticks.
I made the analog sticks a little bit smaller.

Edit 1

Edit 2

I can't be the only one who thinks having the analog stick under the D-pad or button would make it extremely uncomfortable to use said D-pad and buttons, can I?

Switch those around for sheer usability. Nice mockups otherwise.

You know, I think GAF and the gaming community at large have a very strange perception of risk taking.

People here really thought that adding touch screen control to a handheld videogame console was risky. To me, it sounded like a natural evolution.

I think being gamers and generally tech-hungry people, we look at a concept like 3DS and think that the mass market will think it's as cool as we do. I think people are underestimating how risky it is to bank the design of your console around a singular, purely visual upgrade. I could easily see the throngs of current casual DS owners not finding glasses-free 3D as enticing as we do, or enough of a reason to upgrade.

Of course, I think 3D is likely only one facet in Nintendo's overall strategy with this device. And their first step in releasing these blue ocean devices seem to be targeting their core audience. ie. Mario 64 DS, Metroid Prime Hunters demo, Zelda: Twilight Princess.

Another thought is that we are now entering a "super" generation. When paradigm shifting changes are eschewed in favor of incremental upgrades to existing mechanics.

IE.

NES---->SuperNES
N64---->Gamecube
Wii------>???

GB/GBC----->GBA
NDS------>3DS

Aren't you contradicting yourself here? At first you say the DS wasn't a big risk, and seemed like a natural evolution. Then right after you say the DS was a major paradigm shift and the 3DS is the evolutionary release. You do raise a good point about whether the masses will find the 3D change enticing though.

 

[∀ Narayan]

Quick question. Will the 3DS use 16:9 screens?

Man, I hope so! That would be fantastic.

 

[Shambles]

Assuming that the 3DS will output more or less GC quality graphics with a good 3D technology and the PSP2 will have performance closer to a 360 than an Xbox (but no 3D)... Which side will the graphics fetishists pick?

Going on the assumption that the GPU is about as powerful as the GC GPU I would also assume that rendering 3D-3D graphics would require significantly more resources that wouldn't result in gamecube graphics unless the game was 3D-2D.

Spoiler

R2D2Ddddddzzzz..

 

[Azure Dream]

Thinking about the analog space issue, something that keeps popping into my head was a Genesis controller that had a circular well for the d-pad. Something like that that could track analog movement would definitely fit the form factor better. And if they threw enough R&D cash at it, maybe they could have a way that, controlled by the system (no user thought required, no switches or anything) it raises up a subtle d-pad shape behind the well for digital input games? It does this automatically for DS BC mode, and does it based on the request of the game for current 3DS software. You don't really press in the well, so the impression wouldn't have to move up or down far, be less prone to breaking that way.

It sounds strange the way I've written it out, but I think it would be sufficiently low-tech to pull off. Then again, I loved the clicky NGPC stick, so I have no qualms about seeing that return either.

 

[Opus Angelorum]

I think this would be the best layout for the controls, assuming they will add an analogue stick:

* Credit to samusx for the original design of course

 

[jump_button]

they best let us have VC games and add GB and GBA games to the VC

 

[Nimyh]

Another thought is that we are now entering a "super" generation. When paradigm shifting changes are eschewed in favor of incremental upgrades to existing mechanics.

Aren't these "super" generations considered the best though? Think SNES, PS2. I wouldn't mind having more games and less tech demos.

 

[Hobbun]

I can't be the only one who thinks having the analog stick under the D-pad or button would make it extremely uncomfortable to use said D-pad and buttons, can I?

Switch those around for sheer usability. Nice mockups otherwise.

No, you're not. There were several posts above already mentioning such.

 

[civilstrife]

I suppose this device explains why Nintendo's R&D budget has been through the roof this entire gen.

 

[Chittagong]

Edit 2

Yeah, this is pretty much what I think it'll be, minus the 2D/3D light and mousepad of course. It's got a nice symmetry to it

Spoiler

Virtual Boy style

, making it less threatening for casuals.

 

[Hobbun]

Yeah, this is pretty much what I think it'll be, minus the 2D/3D light and mousepad of course. It's got a nice symmetry to it

Spoiler

Virtual Boy style

, making it less threatening for casuals.

Well, and also I don't think the analog stick would be below the d-pad. As others already have said, your thumb would always be hitting the analog stick when using the d-pad.

 

[Jme]

3DS going to be as large as the Wii? :lol

Man I said it was a sloppy mockup. Obviously everything would be scaled down and tightened up to be no wider than a psp. Just add a second screen on top of the psp that flips down.

 

[RoboPlato]

I think this would be the best layout for the controls, assuming they will add an analogue stick:

* Credit to samusx for the original design of course

http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee137/aranathos/3DSedit2.jpg[IMG][/QUOTE]
This looks fantastic. Awesome job.

 

[orioto]

Wouldn't it be possible to use the same kind of tech as the wiimote (with the captors on the console and some sort of light on the stylus) to actually have motion control on the stylus, i mean not the gyro thing, but the pointing ability of the wiimote.

Like you have the classic touch panel on the bottom screen, and you can point things to move it on the top one, with depth.

 

[curls]

Yeah, this is pretty much what I think it'll be, minus the 2D/3D light and mousepad of course. It's got a nice symmetry to it

Spoiler

Virtual Boy style

, making it less threatening for casuals.

Do you really need an LED light to tell you when it is on, none of those lights need to be there from a design perspective.

The analogue sticks make the device look too noisy, Go with a hybrid d-pad/3D stick

 

[Azure Dream]

The 3D/2D light on that mock-up should probably just say "3D" anyway, and be red off, green on or some variation, it doesn't make much sense to list "3D/2D" and then just show a single colored light.

One other thought I had is that the mic should have a small halo of transparent plastic around it, that lights up when the game is looking for input from it, like how the 360's Vision Camera lights up when it's taking a picture or video. There were several times on the DS where it wasn't obvious or the game had to go out of its way to remind you there was a mic on the thing you should be trying.

 

[GDGF]

Thinking about the analog space issue, something that keeps popping into my head was a Genesis controller that had a circular well for the d-pad. Something like that that could track analog movement would definitely fit the form factor better. And if they threw enough R&D cash at it, maybe they could have a way that, controlled by the system (no user thought required, no switches or anything) it raises up a subtle d-pad shape behind the well for digital input games? It does this automatically for DS BC mode, and does it based on the request of the game for current 3DS software. You don't really press in the well, so the impression wouldn't have to move up or down far, be less prone to breaking that way.

It sounds strange the way I've written it out, but I think it would be sufficiently low-tech to pull off. Then again, I loved the clicky NGPC stick, so I have no qualms about seeing that return either.

I've spent the last hour or so looking through Nintendo patents trying to find something like that :lol

(Didn't Nintendo's D-Pad patent expire in like 2005 or something? Maybe it's about time for a new design. I'd love to see something close to the NGPC stick. People still rave about that thing to this day)

 

[Somnid]

Wouldn't it be possible to use the same kind of tech as the wiimote (with the captors on the console and some sort of light on the stylus) to actually have motion control on the stylus, i mean not the gyro thing, but the pointing ability of the wiimote.

Like you have the classic touch panel on the bottom screen, and you can point things to move it on the top one, with depth.

Like a Wacom Tablet?

 

[civilstrife]

Wouldn't it be possible to use the same kind of tech as the wiimote (with the captors on the console and some sort of light on the stylus) to actually have motion control on the stylus, i mean not the gyro thing, but the pointing ability of the wiimote.

Like you have the classic touch panel on the bottom screen, and you can point things to move it on the top one, with depth.

Yes, please!

 

[ShinNL]

Oh, I noticed a Wacom pen there. Does anyone know how those pens work anyway? Cause when I hover mine above the tablet without touching, it still knows where it is, even though I'm sure the pen itself has no batteries.

After reading some of the posts, I think the camera idea for tracking has a good possibility of happening. Maybe the pen is a PS Move kind of pen with a tip of light. If you put it inside the DS it shuts off and charges, if you pull it out it activates. Once activated the camera will do the tracking. This is perfect for XYZ targeting (no need for accelerometers in the pen) and dragging around 3D objects.

Edit: light should be infrared like the Wii Sensor Bar.

 

[curls]

The 3D/2D light on that mock-up should probably just say "3D" anyway, and be red off, green on or some variation, it doesn't make much sense to list "3D/2D" and then just show a single colored light.

Doesn't need to be a hardware feature. Should be left to the software/firmware.

 

[orioto]

Like a Wacom Tablet?

I can't do that with my bamboo one^^
But i'm not only talking about moving the stylus just above the screen. You could point it exactly like on a tv with the wii.

 

[Dra-Q]

I don't give a shit about the design, just give my F-Zero 3DS!

 

[GDGF]

Oh, I noticed a Wacom pen there. Does anyone know how those pens work anyway?

The Wacom stylus
looks and feels like a pen yet contains no batteries or magnets. Instead it
takes advantage of patented resonance technology developed by Wacom Co.
Ltd.
in which a tiny signal is sent to the stylus and returned for position
analysis. In operation, a grid of wires below the screen alternates between
transmit and receive modes about every 20 microseconds.
In the transmit mode (1), the tablet's signal stimulates oscillation in the
coil-and-capacitor resonant circuit in the pen. In receive mode (2), the
energy of the resonant circuit oscillations in the pen is detected by the
tablet's antenna grid. This is then analyzed to determine position and
other
information including pressure.
Since the grid provides the power to the pen through resonant coupling, no
batteries are required. Thus there are no consumables inside the pen that
will run down and need to be replaced or that would make the pen top-heavy.
A simple analogy for this patented technology is that of a piano tuner
using
a tuning fork to tune a piano. As the tuning fork is brought into proximity
of the appropriate vibrating piano string (if the fork is of the same
frequency) it will begin to borrow energy from the vibrating string and
resonate, generating a tone. In much the same way, as the Wacom pen comes
close to the tablet surface, it begins to resonate, generating its own
frequency back to the tablet. When it hears the pen, it tracks the pen's
location with unprecedented accuracy. The tablet then sends location,
pressure and tilt information to the computer along with a
signal indicating whether the pen point or the eraser tip is being used.

There ya go.

 

[Starchasing]

Wouldn't it be possible to use the same kind of tech as the wiimote (with the captors on the console and some sort of light on the stylus) to actually have motion control on the stylus, i mean not the gyro thing, but the pointing ability of the wiimote.

Like you have the classic touch panel on the bottom screen, and you can point things to move it on the top one, with depth.

I think you would need tww ir cameras, and one ir light in the tip of the stylus.

Seems cheap to me

 

[Chittagong]

Another thought is that we are now entering a "super" generation. When paradigm shifting changes are eschewed in favor of incremental upgrades to existing mechanics.

IE.

NES---->SuperNES
N64---->Gamecube
Wii------>???

GB/GBC----->GBA
NDS------>3DS

Awesome. "Super" generations are always the best, by far. They always take the good idea of the base generation and make it just much better.

I wonder what happens with Xbox and PS though, since I considered the current generation their "super" generation.

 

[Snakeyes]

Awesome. "Super" generations are always the best, by far. They always take the good idea of the base generation and make it just much better.

I wonder what happens with Xbox and PS though, since I considered the current generation their "super" generation.

PS2 was the "Super PS1".

 

[Vinnk]

:lol Man, I can't see anything with these cross-eyed images. Not a damned thing. I feel like I'm completely missing out on so much of this thread.

This.

 

[zoukka]

I can't do that with my bamboo one^^
But i'm not only talking about moving the stylus just above the screen. You could point it exactly like on a tv with the wii.

Poor bastard.

 

[joetachi]

There ya go.

All i read was magic and witchcraft.

 

[Doorman]

I'm sorry...once I saw it I couldn't help myself...

 

[Azure Dream]

I've spent the last hour or so looking through Nintendo patents trying to find something like that :lol

Here's what I was thinking of, the Turbo Touch 360. I never said it was a good retro controller, just the concept. Except maybe with a more-rounded well, deeper in the middle than the edges, and possibly just a circular outside edge instead of an octagonal one.

Plus, SNES version, and Cheesy Commercial.

Edit: I just realized, after watching the commercial once, watch it again assuming

Spoiler

they're talking about sexual aids

. :lol

 

[Chittagong]

One thing is certain: This will be a wierd E3 conference. :lol

How will they show gameplay? The people are sitting several meters from the guy on stage. So many questions.

 

[Vinci]

The Wacom stylus looks and feels like a pen yet contains no batteries or magnets. Instead it takes advantage of patented resonance technology developed by Wacom Co.
Ltd. in which a tiny signal is sent to the stylus and returned for position
analysis.

<snip>

That is fucking clever.

 

[GCX]

I have really hard time believing Nintendo would put dual analog controls in 3DS on top of the d-pad. The core idea behind Wii and DS was to have as few buttons as possible but if they add dual analog it's starting to look like dualshock which definitely isn't what Nintendo wants.