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[Mojojo]

The lack of a second analog nub is KILLING ME. I think Nintendo will either put two or none, but not just one

I still find weird that the nikkei report didn't use the term 'analog'..
For all we know, Nintendo could go with something as crazy as this, 3D joystick for Mobile phone demonstrated at Ceatec 2009.. And here is a bad quality video of the thing

 

[kinosama]

I understand the rendering process for stereoscopic 3D, but how would the screens 'convey' each frame to its respective eye without polarized glasses? I don't get it.


What if it's not really 3D, but some sort of head tracking using an upgraded inside camera. Like those Johnny Lee Wii demos? Parallax based 2D games would look killer on that!

 

[abstract alien]

What if it's not really 3D, but some sort of head tracking using an upgraded inside camera. Like those Johnny Lee Wii demos? Parallax based 2D games would look killer on that!

This is the same technique used in the DSiWare game that kept getting linked to, right? Well, not head tracking, but camera positioning used to trick the eyes into seeing a somewhat 3D image.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

No more cross eyed BS! Gifs or GTFO!! :lol

seriously, jerkfaces: make jittergifs too.

That works pretty well for photos and dinosaurs and such, but not so well with converted 2D game images. When it's done with actual 3D stuff, we can see that the objects are actually at slightly different angles. When it's done with layers of 2D elements, it's just like bits of the image are sliding around on each other.

Jitter GIFs should work decently for 3D games, though. Get one screenshot, have the character tinily sidestep to the side and take another. Of course, since they're not taken at the same time that might cause animated things to not match up perfectly in both images.

:lol No idea what my fiance does to those things, but I had a replacement stylus that began slipping out of its slot on the DS. One day I noticed it was missing, but I had no idea if it was in my house or not after a bit of searching, so I bought another. We have a fat, semi-usable pokemon pen-like stylus that is used as back up.

All my styli get loose after a while, too. Unless they make both the system and stylus out of an indestructible material, it's probably inevitable that it won't fit as snugly the ten thousandth time it's gone out and in.

Seriously though I can't see the cross-eyed images at all.

Parallel viewing in the hoooouse!

And I know it's not Link's Awakening, but the big problem with the colored glasses method of 3D is that it royally screws up with the color. So for example pics like the one you made, I think it's worthwhile to do a grayscale version, too.

 

[Plaguefox]

Parallel viewing in the hoooouse!

I saw this and thought, "There's way too much separation going on here, it's killing the effect." I thought I might suggest specific alterations, but then I read backwards a few pages (yeah, weird, true) and saw that Kevin did one too.

This is a much more reserved effect on the same image, making me wonder what prompted the recreation in the first place. You definitely want to avoid a situation where the layers are adjusted so severely that you have to actually alter how far you cross your eyes in order to shift between layers; it hinders the appearance of depth.

Then again, this feels like it's moot for those who aren't tolerating the parallel images, but I would wager the same basic principles should be applied to all of the techniques available.

 

[jim-jam bongs]

On the topic of the "3d stick", I think that it will be one stick on the right, one d-pad on the left. PC third and first person games are usually based around the idea of digital on the left and analogue on the right. Works pretty well, and is somewhat familiar to dual-analogue users as the camera/movement would stay in the same place.

I know that this doesn't gel with lefties but neither does the current DS.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

I saw this and thought, "There's way too much separation going on here, it's killing the effect." I thought I might suggest specific alterations, but then I read backwards a few pages (yeah, weird, true) and saw that Kevin did one too.

This is a much more reserved effect on the same image, making me wonder what prompted the recreation in the first place. You definitely want to avoid a situation where the layers are adjusted so severely that you have to actually alter how far you cross your eyes in order to shift between layers; it hinders the appearance of depth.

Then again, this feels like it's moot for those who aren't tolerating the parallel images, but I would wager the same basic principles should be applied to all of the techniques available.

Err, I just took his image and reversed which was left and which was right so it would be appropriate for parallel viewing rather than cross viewing. The amount of depth should be exactly the same, but if you try to view it like a cross image the depth will be reversed and it will seem totally weird, just as the original cross version looks totally weird when I view it with the parallel method. View one with the wrong method and you'll be thinking the guy on the bridge is farther away than the clouds, which are farther away than the ground. Total mess.

 

[Plaguefox]

Err, I just took his image and reversed which was left and which was right so it would be appropriate for parallel viewing rather than cross viewing.

Holy cow, you serious? My powers of observation are shot tonight. Apologies!

 

[NotWii]

Parallel viewing in the hoooouse!

This is perfect

 

[leroy hacker]

I understand the rendering process for stereoscopic 3D, but how would the screens 'convey' each frame to its respective eye without polarized glasses? I don't get it.

A parallax barrier is used in Sharp's current 3d screens.

There's a diagram explaining how it works at the link.

 

[sinxtanx]

I thought about how the illusion of 3D would get broken if you used a stylus on the screen when pictures appeared to pop out of the screen, couldn't that be negated by stylus force-feedback? I think people would mind it less if that was the case.

Mock-ups are getting steadily better in this thread too, but as was the case with the original DS, I think the ones here are probably not very near the truth - remember that the DS had BC to the GBA, but still looked very different. The same thing is likely to happen again, I think.

What is the status on flexible 3D-screens?

 

[Taker666]

I understand the rendering process for stereoscopic 3D, but how would the screens 'convey' each frame to its respective eye without polarized glasses? I don't get it.


What if it's not really 3D, but some sort of head tracking using an upgraded inside camera. Like those Johnny Lee Wii demos? Parallax based 2D games would look killer on that!

Problem is..you only get that sort of effect if you constantly move your head or the handheld around. If you don't move ..you don't get any effect.

 

[Rich!]

The GBA annihilated the SNES in all accounts of the tech spectrum, including graphics.

Not true.

The Sony SPC700 chip in the SNES could produce far better sound than anything the GBA was ever able to, mostly due to the fact that unlike the SNES, the GBA did not have a dedicated sound chip. Samples also had to be highly compressed to fit into the limited buffer - which can be experienced easily by comparing the music on Zelda LTTP, SMW, Yoshi's Island, etc, to their GBA port equivalent.

And IIRC, the Super FX emulation in Yoshi's Island GBA was slightly hacky at times - the fuzzy effect was nowhere near as good for example. But it could be argued that it was never part of the SNES's architecture in the first place, so the GBA does a pretty good job.

 

[Wolves Evolve]

Problem is..you only get that sort of effect if you constantly move your head or the handheld around. If you don't move ..you don't get any effect.

We do all the time, in subtle ways. If its sensitive, it would add a hell of a lot of design possibilities. Lots of games with little kit worlds, sensitivity to depth and eye position. Honestly i hope its this and not anything more stupidly elaborate. But I think considering the press release, in which it said "3d effects", its precisely this. It has to be pick up and play, and with not a single technical leap required of people.

 

[Regulus Tera]

It's based on mine, can't wait to see what he does with it:

It should have an extra analog stick for lefties.

If it has analog sticks I would not doubt it would be two.

 

[Hydrogen Bluebird]

Wow, this might be able to make me buy another Nintendo hand held. Last Ninty portable I bought was the GBA SP.

 

[Dennis]

I have never been so excited for new handhelds as I am about 3DS and PSP 2. Finally, the technology to get decent graphics on a small device is in place.

And the screen quality available now, plus 3D? Yummy!

 

[sinxtanx]

We do all the time, in subtle ways. If its sensitive, it would add a hell of a lot of design possibilities. Lots of games with little kit worlds, sensitivity to depth and eye position. Honestly i hope its this and not anything more stupidly elaborate. But I think considering the press release, in which it said "3d effects", its precisely this. It has to be pick up and play, and with not a single technical leap required of people.

Handheld?

 

[SamBishop]

Not true.

The Sony SPC700 chip in the SNES could produce far better sound than anything the GBA was ever able to, mostly due to the fact that unlike the SNES, the GBA did not have a dedicated sound chip. Samples also had to be highly compressed to fit into the limited buffer - which can be experienced easily by comparing the music on Zelda LTTP, SMW, Yoshi's Island, etc, to their GBA port equivalent.

And IIRC, the Super FX emulation in Yoshi's Island GBA was slightly hacky at times - the fuzzy effect was nowhere near as good for example. But it could be argued that it was never part of the SNES's architecture in the first place, so the GBA does a pretty good job.

Thanks for being as big a tech nerd as I am. For bonus points, that sound chip was the gateway for the whole PlayStation Sony/Nintendo fallout. That chip -- and the SNES "sound" in general, is one of those things that emulation can't quite "get." I know it sounds like an old coot barking this from the rocking chair on the porch, but there's something about the sound processing in the SNES and Genesis and really any of those systems of the time, but the output's fidelity really makes those games what they are. It's not the same on an emulator.

...Oh jeezus, I am an old coot.

 

[zoukka]

Analog stick is nice. But clamshell is better. Analog nub however... can gtfo.

 

[Baki]

It's based on mine, can't wait to see what he does with it:

Why only one analog stick?

 

[WillyFive]

Why only one analog stick?

Yeah, it's more likely it won't even have one.

 

[DarthButcher]

I can't see any of those parallel images. Screw my bad eyesight!

 

[deleted]

It should have an extra analog stick for lefties.

If it has analog sticks I would not doubt it would be two.

I´m pretty sure it will only be one analog stick. Maybe even without a d-pad. Think about it.
Nintendo wanted to get rid of a D-pad for the Gamecube and even presented the system without it - only build it back in because 3rd partys demanded so. And all games that would use a second analog stick for camera control can as well use the Touchscreen for this, akin to MP:hunters.

To many buttons tend to look intimidating to the blue ocean crowd and it would work without them, so it makes sense for Nintendo to not change the amount of sticks and buttons for the succesor, but the functionality of them.

 

[1-D_FTW]

With all those unofficial rumors and Developer leaks about the "DS2" now officialy dubbed 3DS, why are we not hearing alot of rumors or Developer leaks about "PSP2"?

ManGod thinks it's going to have 2 screens.

http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3178049

 

[kinggroin]

It's funny, you guys building castles in the sky.

I wouldn't put it past the company to justify DSi level visuals, due to the inclusion of the new screen technology. Basically, it'll be to the DS, what the Wii was to the GC.

So, marginally better looking.

Games would look a little better, but the focus would be the new features of the hardware as it relates to gaming interactivity. They know even IF Sony goes balls out with visuals, they are still safe with the market they've carved out for themselves. It's one that doesn't care if the handheld can do parallax mapping or not.

Spoiler

But I, like everyone else here, hopes it can

 

[abstract alien]

To be honest, the last thing I want the 3ds to do is fall in the footsteps of the psp and have a ton of software that tries to mimic the home consoles. Its what I'm afraid of most when it comes to third parties, and having dual analog set ups might egg them on even further to doing just this. Of course, its just my paranoia, as having some console-like titles on the go would be nice....just not half of the ds library.

Don't mind me, I've been up for hours.

 

[Dedication Through Light]

With all those unofficial rumors and Developer leaks about the "DS2" now officialy dubbed 3DS, why are we not hearing alot of rumors or Developer leaks about "PSP2"?

They gotta get the PSP to its 10 year life cycle, like theyve been touting, cant hamper sales before E3

I just want it to have a wider screen, be 10x brighter than the current screen, embrace less noisy media (UMD sometimes sounds so loud), and push graphics even higher.

 

[Endless]

http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm10150537

 

[abstract alien]

http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm10150537

Well, I just skipped through it and its one of the worst videos ever.

 

[Stumpokapow]

I´m pretty sure it will only be one analog stick. Maybe even without a d-pad. Think about it.
Nintendo wanted to get rid of a D-pad for the Gamecube and even presented the system without it - only build it back in because 3rd partys demanded so. And all games that would use a second analog stick for camera control can as well use the Touchscreen for this, akin to MP:hunters.

To many buttons tend to look intimidating to the blue ocean crowd and it would work without them, so it makes sense for Nintendo to not change the amount of sticks and buttons for the succesor, but the functionality of them.

You're missing his point.

The DS has two d-pads. You're right handed, so you didn't notice. For us left-handers, every single game that uses stylus + buttons as a combo involves us using the stylus with our left hand and the ABXY buttons as a d-pad with our right hand. Including Metroid Prime Hunters.

Now, add an analog stick to the mix. My left hand is holding the stylus. How do I do camera control? Put my right hand crossed under my left hand? Just don't play games that require stylus+buttons? Obviously there needs to be some symmetry of functionality.

The d-pad is digital and thus can be replicated by any cross formation of digital buttons. That's why the ABXY d-pad works fine. An analog stick can only be replicated by an analog stick. So what should Nintendo add to make controller functionality symmetrical?

 

[Comic]

My theory is that it is called 3DS because it'll have a third 'screen' which will view the two screens in parallel and basically 'cross your eyes' for you.

How? MAGIC.

 

[Wizpig]

I'm pretty used to the DSi XL screen size, the Lite seems more like the GB Micro to me now... which brings me to my question: according to the rumors, are the 3DS screens going to be bigger or smaller than the XL?

 

[deleted]

You're missing his point.

The DS has two d-pads. You're right handed, so you didn't notice. For us left-handers, every single game that uses stylus + buttons as a combo involves us using the stylus with our left hand and the ABXY buttons as a d-pad with our right hand. Including Metroid Prime Hunters.

Now, add an analog stick to the mix. My left hand is holding the stylus. How do I do camera control? Put my right hand crossed under my left hand? Just don't play games that require stylus+buttons? Obviously there needs to be some symmetry of functionality.

The d-pad is digital and thus can be replicated by any cross formation of digital buttons. That's why the ABXY d-pad works fine. An analog stick can only be replicated by an analog stick. So what should Nintendo add to make controller functionality symmetrical?

You´re right, I didn´t consider that. I guess left-handers are a big part of the userbase. The question however is: How many of them are actually using the left-handed option? I have a left handed friend with a DS and never saw him play on a left-handed option. He just uses the standard control option.

 

[Vinterbird]

I'm pretty used to the DSi XL screen size, the Lite seems more like the GB Micro to me now... which brings me to my question: according to the rumors, are the 3DS screens going to be bigger or smaller than the XL?

Smaller.

 

[AceBandage]

It's funny, you guys building castles in the sky.

I wouldn't put it past the company to justify DSi level visuals, due to the inclusion of the new screen technology. Basically, it'll be to the DS, what the Wii was to the GC.

So, marginally better looking.

Games would look a little better, but the focus would be the new features of the hardware as it relates to gaming interactivity. They know even IF Sony goes balls out with visuals, they are still safe with the market they've carved out for themselves. It's one that doesn't care if the handheld can do parallax mapping or not.

Spoiler

But I, like everyone else here, hopes it can

I doubt it'll be that small of a leap.
I think we could easily see near GC level visuals from the system.
People think that Nintendo is "done" with going for high end tech, but that isn't really true.
The reason they didn't this time around was because the high end tech wasn't cost effective enough at the time.
They were able to put out a console and a handheld at a reasonable price and that really helped them a lot.
Now, however, that high end tech is much cheaper to produce and implement.

 

[Datschge]

For all we know, Nintendo could go with something as crazy as this, 3D joystick for Mobile phone demonstrated at Ceatec 2009.. And here is a bad quality video of the thing

While this looks very odd on the mobile's back, I can totally see a much smaller version of this work well enough as shoulder buttons, kind of a breed of GC's analog shoulder buttons with Thinkpad's mouse nub.

 

[Wizpig]

Smaller.

Ack

Thanks.

 

[AceBandage]

Ack

Thanks.

By how much, though, is unknown.
All we have it the Nikei rumor that the screens are smaller than 4 inches, which is still larger than the DSi.

 

[Mr.Wuggles]

man, i just got another idea. nintendo has the rights to the sanity effects from Eternal Darkness, right? if what we've heard about the 3DS is true, it would be the absolute perfect system for a game with sanity effects. i really hope the 3DS is actually the starting point of legitimate portable horror games. all the features it supposedly has makes it perfect for immersive games.

i can't remember the last time i was this excited for something game related, i feel like a kid again. my head is running wild with ideas for games on this system. is it too early to start an ideas thread?

 

[AceBandage]

man, i just got another idea. nintendo has the rights to the sanity effects from Eternal Darkness, right? if what we've heard about the 3DS is true, it would be the absolute perfect system for a game with sanity effects. i really hope the 3DS is actually the starting point of legitimate portable horror games. all the features it supposedly has makes it perfect for immersive games.

i can't remember the last time i was this excited for something game related, i feel like a kid again. my head is running wild with ideas for games on this system. is it too early to start an ideas thread?

Well, they did recently re-trade mark Eternal Darkness.

 

[Graphics Horse]

I still find weird that the nikkei report didn't use the term 'analog'..
For all we know, Nintendo could go with something as crazy as this, 3D joystick for Mobile phone demonstrated at Ceatec 2009.. And here is a bad quality video of the thing

That's very clever, no moving parts outside the stick itself, you just need a tiny light and image sensor underneath it, would take up less room below the case than a dpad!

 

[+Aliken+]

I don't know if it has been already discussed but...
We all know that there will be 2 screens (compatible with the DS) but will both screens be touch screens and will both screens be 3D?

 

[EmCeeGramr]

voooooooxxxxxeeeeeellllsss

 

[JaseC]

voooooooxxxxxeeeeeellllsss

 

[KevinCow]

voooooooxxxxxeeeeeellllsss

http://voxelstein3d.sourceforge.net/

 

[Haunted]

I don't know if it has been already discussed but...
We all know that there will be 2 screens (compatible with the DS) but will both screens be touch screens and will both screens be 3D?

We don't know yet.

Sensible speculation says one touch screen and one 3D screen.

 

[Opus Angelorum]

...will both screens be touch screens and will both screens be 3D?

Unlikely, why would they keep two separate screens that duplicate functionality? And it would be difficult to implement the 3D across two screens that would be at different viewing angles.

 

[Dedication Through Light]

Why do people seem to "need" two analog sticks? it's good with just one. as long as games make good use of it I'm ok and you will too.

It would be better emulate console gaming and open up new possibilities for I guess first person shooters and action adventure games by better camera controls. I cant really see any other need. Though it is pretty tiring to rely on D-Pad for camera controls.

 

[bdouble]

It would be better emulate console gaming and open up new possibilities for I guess first person shooters and action adventure games by better camera controls. I cant really see any other need. Though it is pretty tiring to rely on D-Pad for camera controls.

But I don't want it to emulate console gaming. That is why I have a console. Plus how has the other handheld done trying to do this? I wouldn't be surprised either way though. 1 or 2 or non. I like what the DS does now and not sure if 2 sticks would really make it better.