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[SovanJedi]

I hate this whole "Myeeehhhhhhhh Nintendo 1st party games sell the best, let's not make games for their platforms, we can't compete" mentality, for so many reasons.

One, that basically admits that you're not going to put the man hours in to try and compete with their games on a quality basis. Two, Nintendo games are among the best selling games in the entirety of videogame history, of course they'll sell more than the average third party title. Third, they're still competition just because you're releasing a game on another device. If you release a low key kart-racing game the same time the new Mario Kart comes out, you're shit out of luck regardless of the choice of platform.

And my eyes roll so bloody far into the back of my head at the suggestion that overall sales figures take a backseat to perceived dominance on a gaming platform. Holy fucking shit.

 

[Mondriaan]

I hate this whole "Myeeehhhhhhhh Nintendo 1st party games sell the best, let's not make games for their platforms, we can't compete" mentality, for so many reasons.

Maybe there's still a great deal of uncertainty about how to market their games and not so much about the costs of developing these games.

I would guess that marketing third party games for a Nintendo platform has to be different from marketing games for non-Nintendo platforms unless your game is a mega-franchise like Call of Duty, Monster Hunter, or Dragon Quest.

 

[Grampa Simpson]

Call me stupid but what's the four Sony devices?

To call you stupid would be an insult to stupid people! I've known sheep that could outwit you. I've worn neckties with higher IQs. But you think you're an intellectual, don't you, ape?

 

[Michan]

I would guess that marketing third party games for a Nintendo platform has to be different from marketing games for non-Nintendo platforms unless your game is a mega-franchise like Call of Duty, Monster Hunter, or Dragon Quest.

Aside from the demographics (as with any product, including 360/PS3), how would it be any different? Products are products and marketing is marketing. Either can be good or bad, existant or non-existant.

It's a myth that it is impossible for third party games to sell on Nintendo platforms. Nintendo just does an extraordinary job of marketing their products, while others seem to not even try.

 

[impact]

Four Sony devices outselling the 360!?

 

[Combichristoffersen]

Four Sony devices outselling the 360!?

At this point in time, I'm sure even the NGage is outselling the 360 in Japan. Outselling the 360 in Japan means absolutely nothing.

 

[Taurus]

Four Sony devices outselling the 360!?

Dang, what a twist! I think you should write a news article. Remember to use some of or all of these words: ecosystem, HD, momentum, 3rd party friendly, non-Nintendo

I'll create a thread into GAF about it then.

 

[lunchwithyuzo]

I would guess that marketing third party games for a Nintendo platform has to be different from marketing games for non-Nintendo platforms unless your game is a mega-franchise like Call of Duty, Monster Hunter, or Dragon Quest.

Treating Nintendo "differently" is exactly the reason 3rd parties fail to gain traction on their platforms. It's a self-fulfilling cycle.

 

[Little Old Man]

At this point in time, I'm sure even the NGage is outselling the 360 in Japan. Outselling the 360 in Japan means absolutely nothing.

Has the NGage received updated versions, or are we talking about the one that came out in 2004? Surely they can't still be making such an ancient device?

Or was that a subtle dig at the 360 in Japan?

 

[KalBalboa]

Vita outselling 4 Nintendo Devices.

GBA, Gamecube, Wii, and DS

 

[Cheech]

I'm puzzled as to what the 360 has to do with any of this. It's as dead in Japan as the Vita.

Or maybe that's the point?

 

[Combichristoffersen]

Has the NGage received updated versions, or are we talking about the one that came out in 2004? Surely they can't still be making such an ancient device?

Or was that a subtle dig at the 360 in Japan?

A subtle dig at the 360 in Japan (where it's been dead for a few years, so it's ridiculous to act like something outselling the 360 in Japan is noteworthy). The NGage service was shut down in 2010, and I'm not even sure if the NGage was ever released at all in Japan.

 

[Clear]

How is it in any way newsworthy that Nintendo's handheld devices sell boatloads in Japan? Has there ever been a time that this hasn't been true?

The fact that this report is getting so much play just shows how generally dull the whole gaming market is at the moment.

 

[Somnid]

I guess the realization many 3rd parties have is Nintendo's hardware and games are synergistic and their development teams are the industry's best. It creates a high bar, because you need to be targeting the platform like an exclusive with your best devs or you simply cannot keep up. Ports and second tier games can't cut it but that's that's how 3rd parties would like to operate because your best teams are creating graphics heavy dudebro games, and you want them on every platform even if they get downgraded.

 

[BishopLamont]

3DS has 64.2% market share this week.
Kingdom Hearts sold 64.2% of total shipment this week.

Hmmm...

 

[BigDug13]

Third party games on Nintendo portables was always a no brainer. Do they sell as much as first party titles? No. But they sell very well.

Third party games on Nintendo home consoles, hasn't been as "no brainer" as their portables.

Since we're talking about another Nintendo portable that has now been priced to sell, it's still a no brainer. The problem right now is that Nintendo released a slew of good first party games recently which means more dollars will go to those games, but there will be first party lulls, and honestly no one has come close to the first party quality yet.

I personally own Mario, Starfox, Icarus, Zelda, Mario Kart. I also own that virus shooting game (I forget the name, but was on sale for $20). I also own ridge racer and I bought Mario64 DS and Tetris DS. So a mix but leaned more towards first party so far. But if something is impressive I'll get it. I heard Ace Combat is decent so I may get that.

 

[Kyon]

i find it odd that when something is outselling sony systems they make articles, but never when the PS3 and PSP were outselling the Wii and DS SMH i even remember those times there were news articles made when 360's had a spike in sales and they said there's hope yet for the system in Japan. I think the only newsworthy sales articles are Worldwide numbers but no one wants to talk about that i guess

 

[ShinNL]

How is it in any way newsworthy that Nintendo's handheld devices sell boatloads in Japan? Has there ever been a time that this hasn't been true?

The fact that this report is getting so much play just shows how generally dull the whole gaming market is at the moment.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=35814740&postcount=292

Look at the YTD sales of PSP compared to the equivalents for NDS. One of these platforms is to all intents and purposes dead. The other is still selling in modest numbers.

So who's lunch is 3DS eating again?

I guess the one most shocked is you, eh? So your post is a way to what? Rationalize your irrational feelings? Good for you.

 

[DXB-KNIGHT]

i find it odd that when something is outselling sony systems they make articles, but never when the PS3 and PSP were outselling the Wii and DS SMH i even remember those times there were news articles made when 360's had a spike in sales and they said there's hope yet for the system in Japan. I think the only newsworthy sales articles are Worldwide numbers but no one wants to talk about that i guess

I find it odd that their is a positive Nintendo article nowadays since they are extremely rare.

 

[Kyon]

I find it odd that their is a positive Nintendo article nowadays since they are extremely rare.

 

[ULTROS!]

So... Is it time to parteeeeey?

 

[TheNatural]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=35814740&postcount=292
I guess the one most shocked is you, eh? So your post is a way to what? Rationalize your irrational feelings? Good for you.

Ouch. Dat ownage.

 

[Clear]

I guess the one most shocked is you, eh? So your post is a way to what? Rationalize your irrational feelings? Good for you.

Is there a point you're trying to make? Because, I'm sorry but I simply cannot see it for the life of me.

Not so long ago, DS was Nintendo's dominating mobile platform, with PSP as the scrappy second best.

In the post you cited I noted that since the 3DS price-cut, DS/DSi have practically DIED, and guess what is still the scrappy second best seller in the handheld space in Japan... PSP.

My viewpoint is consistent. And where's the "shocked" bit coming from?

Ouch. Dat ownage.

No, I really don't think so. Best I can figure is he misread NDS (shorthand for DS/DSi/DSi XL... because its quite a mouthful) for 3DS, and decided to jump down the throat of someone who was actually on his "side"!

 

[KillerMan91]

As good as 3DS sales are in Japan they are still far cry from what DS did during normal weeks in 2006 and 2007. It's pretty much everything else doing so poorly that 3DS numbers look better than what they are.

 

[lunchwithyuzo]

The headline's sensationalistic, but the thrust of the article is really more about 3DS emerging as Japan's next platform of choice. Which is a fine enough topic for discussion.

 

[AndrewDean84xX]

As good as 3DS sales are in Japan they are still far cry from what DS did during normal weeks in 2006 and 2007. It's pretty much everything else doing so poorly that 3DS numbers look better than what they are.

Isn't the 3DS doing better than the DS? Like the 3DS's first 13 months are much better than the first 13 months of the DS? You also have to keep in mind that the 3DS has more competition than the DS had in 2006.

 

[TheNatural]

Is there a point you're trying to make? Because, I'm sorry but I simply cannot see it for the life of me.

Not so long ago, DS was Nintendo's dominating mobile platform, with PSP as the scrappy second best.

In the post you cited I noted that since the 3DS price-cut, DS/DSi have practically DIED, and guess what is still the scrappy second best seller in the handheld space in Japan... PSP.

My viewpoint is consistent. And where's the "shocked" bit coming from?

Saying second best is like winning second place in the Democratic Primary. It's so far off, it's not even in consideration.

The reason why DS fell off is because it's been around a gazillion years, no longer has any support whatsoever, and everyone has one. Saying "well when 3DS came out now DS no longer sells" is not an indictment on sales being eaten, but the fact Nintendo has successfully transitioned and Sony hasn't.

 

[Pureauthor]

Isn't the 3DS doing better than the DS? Like the 3DS's first 13 months are much better than the first 13 months of the DS? You also have to keep in mind that the 3DS has more competition than the DS had in 2006.

Keep in mind that at equivalent points in time the DS had not yet risen to heaven yet. It'll do so this year, and unless something changes 3DS LTD sales are going to be left in the dust.

 

[KillerMan91]

Isn't the 3DS doing better than the DS? Like the 3DS's first 13 months are much better than the first 13 months of the DS? You also have to keep in mind that the 3DS has more competition than the DS had in 2006.

It did better than DS during its first year but now it has dropped from the pace of DS. Basically DS continued to sell like crazy after Christmas 2005 whereas 3DS dropped to more normal numbers after great december. During 2006 DS sold about 8.5 million consoles in Japan...That averages to 163k per week. Those were crazy times.

 

[Clear]

The reason why DS fell off is because it's been around a gazillion years, no longer has any support whatsoever, and everyone has one. Saying "well when 3DS came out now DS no longer sells" is not an indictment on sales being eaten, but the fact Nintendo has successfully transitioned and Sony hasn't.

The transition only "succeeded" when they massively cut the price of 3DS effectively killing the DSi series in the process. Hence they sacrificed one revenue stream for another, and I think its fair to say DSi hardware was substantially more profitable per-unit than 3DS is at its new price-point.

But what's that got to do with attacking me for pointing out that Nintendo is still top dog in Japanese handheld gaming?

As I pointed out, it makes no sense!

 

[TheNatural]

The transition only "succeeded" when they massively cut the price of 3DS effectively killing the DSi series in the process. Hence they sacrificed one revenue stream for another, and I think its fair to say DSi hardware was substantially more profitable per-unit than 3DS is at its new price-point.

But what's that got to do with attacking me for pointing out that Nintendo is still top dog in Japanese handheld gaming?

As I pointed out, it makes no sense!

They didn't sacrifice a revenue stream for another, because the DS wasn't selling this good. Not to mention the new platform is taking over for the longrun and they have GAMES for it. Nothing left for the DS was going to sell like Mario Kart or Mario Land. Dropping the price had an effect on making money in software too. Last year at this time, the 3DS at a high price was even still selling better and the DS was only in the 15K range or so. It would be ridiculous to debut a new system waiting for the current system to just drop absolutely to 0 or something.

 

[Penguin]

i find it odd that when something is outselling sony systems they make articles, but never when the PS3 and PSP were outselling the Wii and DS SMH i even remember those times there were news articles made when 360's had a spike in sales and they said there's hope yet for the system in Japan. I think the only newsworthy sales articles are Worldwide numbers but no one wants to talk about that i guess

Really?
Because I remember a ton of articles from when the Ps3 started outselling the Wii in Japan.

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/ps3-outsells-wii-in-japan_7
http://www.joystiq.com/2009/10/02/ps3-outsells-wii-in-japan-for-september-thanks-slim/
http://kotaku.com/5236602/playstation-3-outsells-wii-in-japan-for-another-month
http://www.gamingunion.net/news/ps3-overtakes-wiis-yearly-sales-in-japan--2800.html

Or do these not count?

 

[Clear]

They didn't sacrifice a revenue stream for another, because the DS wasn't selling this good. Not to mention the new platform is taking over for the longrun and they have GAMES for it. Nothing left for the DS was going to sell like Mario Kart or Mario Land. Dropping the price had an effect on making money in software too. Last year at this time, the 3DS at a high price was even still selling better and the DS was only in the 15K range or so. It would be ridiculous to debut a new system waiting for the current system to just drop absolutely to 0 or something.

If you check out the latest Mediacreate thread, you'll notice that the 2011 YTD sales for DSi/DSiLL was over 10x more than this years (~314k down to <30k). PSP by comparison is down from 629k to 278k which isn't at all bad comparitively given the platform's age, install-base, and the still solid software sales from titles with far less profile than the 3DS heavy-hitters.

Again, I need to ask: Why exactly are you attacking me? Nintendo being on-top in Japan is hardly a novelty, which is why I commented on its newsworthyness. What on earth has that to do with the empirical fact that 3DS rise to market-leader has coincided with a greater drop in the fortunes of every other Nintendo platform in the region conpared to its closest competitor (Sony)? Hence my comment about who's lunch is getting eaten by 3DS?

 

[HK-47]

The exception to the rule.



Well yeah. . . Nintendo's games are in a league of their own.

lol if there is an exception, its not much a rule.

 

[freddy]

If you check out the latest Mediacreate thread, you'll notice that the 2011 YTD sales for DSi/DSiLL was over 10x more than this years (~314k down to <30k). PSP by comparison is down from 629k to 278k which isn't at all bad comparitively given the platform's age, install-base, and the still solid software sales from titles with far less profile than the 3DS heavy-hitters.

Again, I need to ask: Why exactly are you attacking me? Nintendo being on-top in Japan is hardly a novelty, which is why I commented on its newsworthyness. What on earth has that to do with the empirical fact that 3DS rise to market-leader has coincided with a greater drop in the fortunes of every other Nintendo platform in the region conpared to its closest competitor (Sony)? Hence my comment about who's lunch is getting eaten by 3DS?

You sound bitter about the whole thread to me. You came in swinging and got owned badly by a post now you're flailing desperately. You should probably just stop at this point.

 

[Bumhead]

It did better than DS during its first year but now it has dropped from the pace of DS. Basically DS continued to sell like crazy after Christmas 2005 whereas 3DS dropped to more normal numbers after great december. During 2006 DS sold about 8.5 million consoles in Japan...That averages to 163k per week. Those were crazy times.

Sure, but these are different times and the 3DS doesn't need to outsell or outperform the DS to be successful.

I don't believe the 3DS will come anywhere near the DS' LTD sales when all is said and done, but I still think taken in it's own right the 3DS will remain a highly successful and profitable console for Nintendo.

 

[lunchwithyuzo]

If you check out the latest Mediacreate thread, you'll notice that the 2011 YTD sales for DSi/DSiLL was over 10x more than this years (~314k down to <30k). PSP by comparison is down from 629k to 278k which isn't at all bad comparitively given the platform's age, install-base, and the still solid software sales from titles with far less profile than the 3DS heavy-hitters.

Isn't 3DS+DS 2012 is ahead of 3DS+DS 2011 ytd, while PSP+PSV 2012 is below PSP 2011?

Also, it's not all rosy software side for PSP. Black Leopard 2 just came out and did pretty bad for example.

 

[lunchwithyuzo]

It did better than DS during its first year but now it has dropped from the pace of DS. Basically DS continued to sell like crazy after Christmas 2005 whereas 3DS dropped to more normal numbers after great december. During 2006 DS sold about 8.5 million consoles in Japan...That averages to 163k per week. Those were crazy times.

3DS is still moving 70k+ weekly, that's better than what I'd generally term "normal" for Japan. Especially when Vita's hanging on for life at the 10k barrier.

DS is an insanely high bar to hit, how much was PS2 selling weekly year 2?

 

[iirate]

You sound bitter about the whole thread to me. You came in swinging and got owned badly by a post now you're flailing desperately. You should probably just stop at this point.

I guess you'll see what you want to.

Spoiler

I guess I could that would be a decent summary for most of the console GAF shenanigans, though.

 

[Clear]

Isn't 3DS+DS 2012 is ahead of 3DS+DS ytd, while PSP+PSV 2012 is below PSP 2011?

Also, it's not all rosy software side for PSP. Black Leopard 2 just came out and did pretty bad for example.

Yes it is, but the point is that 3DS was ahead this time last year already! (835k vs 642k) if you add on the 300k from DSi/DSLL in the same period you're getting very close to what Nintendo is logging this year, and at a far better profit per unit ratio.

By comparison Sony are slightly down YoY when Vita and PSP are combined. But that's not entirely unexpected given Vita's sluggish start in the region and the way that PSP is still a very viable platform for software sales in the region.

I'm not disputing who's "winning", just expressing surprise that people didn't realise that in hardware sales terms the situation isn't all that dissimilar to how the situation was to this time last year.

 

[TheNatural]

If you check out the latest Mediacreate thread, you'll notice that the 2011 YTD sales for DSi/DSiLL was over 10x more than this years (~314k down to <30k). PSP by comparison is down from 629k to 278k which isn't at all bad comparitively given the platform's age, install-base, and the still solid software sales from titles with far less profile than the 3DS heavy-hitters.

Again, I need to ask: Why exactly are you attacking me? Nintendo being on-top in Japan is hardly a novelty, which is why I commented on its newsworthyness. What on earth has that to do with the empirical fact that 3DS rise to market-leader has coincided with a greater drop in the fortunes of every other Nintendo platform in the region conpared to its closest competitor (Sony)? Hence my comment about who's lunch is getting eaten by 3DS?

I'm not attacking you, it's just that what you're saying isn't correct. You can go look at last year's numbers, the DS wasn't doing much at all. 10 times isn't a huge deal when you're taking in account it was only 10-15K last year, and this year it's down around 2K. A difference of a few thousand.

Minimilizing it down to "well it dropped price and it's only selling because it took over DS sales" just isn't true. DS hasn't been selling well for a while, it was time for a transition so they made it.

 

[Nibel]

How is it in any way newsworthy that Nintendo's handheld devices sell boatloads in Japan? Has there ever been a time that this hasn't been true?

And who the fuck are you to tell people what's threadworthy or not? New news = new thread; the 3DS is doing good in Japan and Vita seems to get stronger.

Some people want to have some numbers and not just observations and claims from the past!

 

[ShinNL]

I've been enjoying the popcorn-level flailing so far, considering how owned he was from the very beginning, since this very thread was about the percentage of 3DS eating into everything, thus no post ever made after the quotes could redeem oneself. *munch munch munch*

Keep on going, rationalize that shit and save face, baby!

Let me help you Clear:

And even though the quotes can be found on the same page, let me remind you again:

How is it in any way newsworthy that Nintendo's handheld devices sell boatloads in Japan? Has there ever been a time that this hasn't been true?
[Insult to thread maker for considering this news here]

[Trying hard to rationalize here]
So who's lunch is 3DS eating again?

Then we add this new gem of this page:

By comparison Sony are slightly down YoY when Vita and PSP are combined. But that's not entirely unexpected given Vita's sluggish start in the region and the way that PSP is still a very viable platform for software sales in the region.

And since you like to act all naively, let me spell it out for you:

It's eating into PSPs and Vitas sales.

I know, shocking, right? Considering your posts so far, yes, I've very much realized you are just that, shocked.

 

[Little Old Man]

A subtle dig at the 360 in Japan (where it's been dead for a few years, so it's ridiculous to act like something outselling the 360 in Japan is noteworthy). The NGage service was shut down in 2010, and I'm not even sure if the NGage was ever released at all in Japan.

2010
The only time I ever saw one in the UK was around its release, when someone left in the waiting area for collection at Pizza Hut!

Edit: ah just checked Wiki, the service of Ngage was transfered over to a few Nokia smartphones in the years before they shut it down. You're right too, no release in Japan.
Edit 2: only sold 800 units in it's first two weeks on sale in the UK. Ouch :lol

 

[Clear]

I've been enjoying the popcorn-level flailing so far, considering how owned he was from the very beginning, since this very thread was about the percentage of 3DS eating into everything, thus no post ever made after the quotes could redeem oneself. *munch munch munch*

Keep on going, rationalize that shit and save face, baby!

I don't need to rationalize anything when the numbers are on my side:

Combined 3DS/DSLL/DSi hw sales to week 13 2012 = 1,268,923

Combined 3DS/DSLL/DSi hw sales to week 13 2011 = 1,150,856

Nearly a whole 120k units! Wow!


But wait, let's add in Wii to see Nintendo's entire contribution:

Combined 3DS/DSLL/DSi/Wii hw sales to week 13 2012 = 1,429,105

Combined 3DS/DSLL/DSi/Wii hw sales to week 13 2011 =1,370,023

Wowzers, one hefty price-cut later and they've increased their sales by less than 60k units. Well hush my mouth, that is newsworthy!

As for Sony (all platforms). Well yes, they are down YoY (1,049,026 in 2011, to 915,839 in 2012) but its hardly unsurprising when you look at how long the PS2 and PSP have been on the market, (12 years and 7 years respectively) not to mention PS3 is slightly up YoY in the region.

So yeah, its a totally different situation to 12 months ago... <rollseyes>

 

[ShinNL]

Bla.

You're so cute trying. Sony pie shrinking, Vita pie not growing, PSP pie significantly shrinking, Nintendo pie growing, 3DS pie significantly growing: quick, blame the region, use world wide numbers, blame old age!

Funny part is, I don't actually like Vita to become obsolete, but I sure as hell wouldn't be as irrational as you (not even when Nintendo is failing).

Plus, you're actually being off topic as hell. There's a reason why this thread is about Japan, that's because most games have been released earlier in Japan. We're kinda seeing what happens when there's a KH and MH on 3DS that normally would've been on a Sony handheld, and a Sony handheld not having them, will result into.

You want to address points on what Sony can do to improve, not make excuses.

 

[bigtroyjon]

So yeah, its a totally different situation to 12 months ago... <rollseyes>

It is a totally different situation, what you are failing to take into account, is future weeks and the current rate of sales.
As an example
Week 7

PSP(2011 YTD)=338,000
PSP+PSV(2012)=312,000

Week 13

PSP(2011 YTD)= 642,660
PSP+PSV(2012)=480,478

 

[Zekra Dezivad]

Reference prices from Amazon.jp
3DS 15.000 Y
DSi 15.000Y
PS2 16.000 Y
PSP 16.800 Y
DSLL 18.000 Y
360 19.800 Y (4GB)
Wii 20.000 Y
PSV 24.980 Y (Wi-fi)
PS3 24.980 Y
360 29.800 Y (250GB)
360 29.800 Y (4B+Kinect)
PSV 29.980 Y (3G)

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

Treating Nintendo "differently" is exactly the reason 3rd parties fail to gain traction on their platforms. It's a self-fulfilling cycle.

Yeah, we get weird situations where Wii is considered too weak and/or different to get proper entries in series, while the portables aren't.

 

[Clear]

Plus, you're actually being off topic as hell. There's a reason why this thread is about Japan, that's because most games have been released earlier in Japan. We're kinda seeing what happens when there's a KH and MH on 3DS that normally would've been on a Sony handheld, and a Sony handheld not having them, will result into.

No I'm perfectly on topic. Those are MC numbers from the latest Japan sales-age thread.

My contention was that the situation hasn't changed so substantially in Japan that it deserves this sudden tub-thumping in the enthusiast press (note I said news not thread, I'm not denying the value of posting in this thread or the OP for creating it).

You called me on it, claimed "ownage", so I've just backed up my position with numbers specific to the topic at hand: Nintendo's performance in Japan versus Sony's which as you can see isn't drastically different from 12 months ago.

I didn't post in here to start a fight, I made a terse comment not disputing the veracity of the claim, but simply to point out that its not a particularly new phenemenon. I wasn't bashing anyone, and yet I got all this childish name-calling... which to be honest I found more puzzling than annoying.

Anyway. I've made my point, and backed it up with numbers from a GAF respected source. As you don't seem to want to engage in any sort of rational discussion, I'm done.