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Nintendo, please make the Gamepad work as a Classic Controller in Wii Mode
- Thread starter Unai
- Start date
Instead or better alongside using the GamePad in Wii Mode I still don't get why Nintendo isn't able to provide better graphics and controller support in Wii mode (1080p native, no upscaling, support for Pro controller, GamePad). Microsoft and Sony are doing the same with their OG Xbox and PS1/PS2 emulation. Dolphin is doing a better job than Nintendo (at least in terms of improved graphics).
Zeyphersan
Banned
The PS1/PS2 emulator on PS3 does not render the games in higher resolution, it just upscales them differently depending on your settings. Either not at all (thus sending a 480p signal), the "Normal" way (which sends a 1080p signal for PS1 games, 720p signal for PS2 games and preserves the aspect ratio), or "Wide" (which does the same thing as normal but stretches them to 16:9. As far as I know, the 360 does not render OG Xbox games at a higher resolution either, but also just upscales them.
Now of course Nintendo SHOULD do this because it would be great, but let's not pretend MS and Sony are
licktheenvelope
Member
When I bought my Wii U I was shocked this feature didn't already exist... still haven't gotten around to getting a classic controller so it blocked me from buying Nintendo shop games I certainly would have if I could have just used the Gamepad.
balgajo
Member
I think they would need to update the wii OS for that. A program to handle the wi-fi input and transform it, in order to fake into bluetooth input for the individual applications.
Anyway, I can't measure the complexity for that. Probably nothing trivial, but let's give it a try and start begging.
Btw OP, I saw that on uol jogos yesterday...XD
Anyway, I can't measure the complexity for that. Probably nothing trivial, but let's give it a try and start begging.
Btw OP, I saw that on uol jogos yesterday...XD
CC and CC pro have less buttons than the Gamepad and Wiiu Pro controller.
Bluetooth alone does not mean Wii games know how to handle the controller.
The homebrew community knows how to handle the WiiU Pro with native Wii code.
(should also work on a real Wii)
I don't know how they got it to work with gamecube games, I also don't know how they load gamecube games.
But I am pretty sure, that Nintendo can't use that kind of solution, because it could lead to a support nightmare.
It is not emulated, the WiiU's hardware changes its behaviour to act like Wii hardware.
If they for example change the resolution beyond what game actually expects, it could break things.
Zeyphersan
Banned
You'd have to update the entire Wii OS, if not the individual games themselves. There's no way it's happening
Slightly off-topic, but does anyone know if the upcoming Gamecube adaptor will work in Wii mode? Not being able to use my four Gamecube pads is the main reason I haven't imported my Wii data yet. Mario Tennis and Mario Kart 64 are a lot less enjoyable if only one person can play!
Could probably have settings to map buttons to sort it out (mandatory going into the settings before using it).
Gamecube game support came because the hardware to run it is still in the machine.
D
Deleted member 125677
Unconfirmed Member
Would be such a wonderful improvement
KojiKnight
Member
It won't. Same thing with Wii U gamepad, the wii OS is essentially just a game that first loads, once you load another game the OS is completely swapped out for the game. That means every game has to have their own drivers for all the devices they want to use. Since no Wii game was designed to have USB drivers for gamecube pads (they expect all of the gamecube controllers to be on gamecube ports, not gamecube ports connected through USB) it will not work.
The reason the Wii U Pro controller can work in Wii mode is because it's a generic BT device and it's possible to write drivers that can then be inserted into homebrew (which is completely updatable). It MAY be possible to write such a driver for Wii mode, but it would require software designed to use it, you couldn't simply patch the Wii OS and then get support for it as a controller (since, as I mentioned above, the drivers for controllers are a part of each game).
The support issue for me is if the games work reliably with the emulated gamecube controllers. In the end, they might have to test every game thouroughly.
Yeah, but that is not what I meant.
I don't know what happens in software and hardware to load gamecube games.
Without that knowledge one can not judge, whether the solution should work reliably, at least in theory.
The Wii homebrew community had all those things spelled out, one could read the wiki and some forum post and know most of that stuff.
But so far I have not rad any explanation about how gamecube games are loaded Wii U
(in Wii mode).
The Wii Menu is not the OS
As you said, it is essentially just a game, an application, but a privilidged one.
The Wii also has a real OS, many in fact, that almost always runs in background on the secondary CPU, which is an ARM CPU embedded on the GPU's die.
That OS handles things like savegame access and Wi-Fi.
(I am not sure if it also handles Gamecube controllers, but I believe it does not.)
Some versions of the IOS also include basic USB support, meant for USB periphals.
I don't think many of you have really thought this through.
How is this supposed to work exactly? Does it emulate a wii remote with a classic controller plugged in? If so, what about when you actually need to use the remote, would you pick one up and it would register as the remote the gamepad is plugged in to? What if you plug something in to that remote, does the gamepad disconnect? What about games that don't work if you have something plugged in to the remote, can you disconnect the gamepad from the remote so they will work? Will it simulate a sideways remote as well?
There are so many issues with this that the only way it would work is pretty much patching each game separately. Or have a ton of options that you have to keep changing around for all the games to work.
How is this supposed to work exactly? Does it emulate a wii remote with a classic controller plugged in? If so, what about when you actually need to use the remote, would you pick one up and it would register as the remote the gamepad is plugged in to? What if you plug something in to that remote, does the gamepad disconnect? What about games that don't work if you have something plugged in to the remote, can you disconnect the gamepad from the remote so they will work? Will it simulate a sideways remote as well?
There are so many issues with this that the only way it would work is pretty much patching each game separately. Or have a ton of options that you have to keep changing around for all the games to work.
We have to think a little outside the box.
Yes, there are problems as I said in the OP, but lets think a bit about what are the major issues.
- Wii remotes, and therefore Classic Controllers, use bluetooth to send signals to the wii, while the Gamepad uses wifi.
- The Wii U becames a Wii when running in Wii mode, so it can't things that the wii can't do.
This is the basic logic, yes, but things are a little more complex than that. We know that even when the console is running in wii mode it can send images to the gamepad, something that would be impossible on the wii, therefore the transformation is not 100% anymore. That being said, maybe with a little more effort they could also send a signal from the gamepad to the Wii U.
If this is true, the next step would be a layer between the Wii U and the Wii inside it. If I press B on the gamepad the wii u would send the signal equivalent to the B on the classic controller and them the game or SO would do what it does when you press B on the classic controller.
Yes, there are tons of "ifs" and "maybes" above and things might not work like that, but we don't have the source code to see it for ourselves, only Nintendo does. If costs us nothing to ask them to look into it since it appears to be something that would bring value to the gamepad to a lot of people if this thread is any indication. Some people also though that it would be impossible to use OFF-TV in wii mode before the update. We can only ask Nintendo to do what they can, and if it is really impossible than at least they know that this is something that poeple care about and is also something to think about while designing the next hardware iteration.
Yes, there are problems as I said in the OP, but lets think a bit about what are the major issues.
- Wii remotes, and therefore Classic Controllers, use bluetooth to send signals to the wii, while the Gamepad uses wifi.
- The Wii U becames a Wii when running in Wii mode, so it can't things that the wii can't do.
This is the basic logic, yes, but things are a little more complex than that. We know that even when the console is running in wii mode it can send images to the gamepad, something that would be impossible on the wii, therefore the transformation is not 100% anymore. That being said, maybe with a little more effort they could also send a signal from the gamepad to the Wii U.
If this is true, the next step would be a layer between the Wii U and the Wii inside it. If I press B on the gamepad the wii u would send the signal equivalent to the B on the classic controller and them the game or SO would do what it does when you press B on the classic controller.
Yes, there are tons of "ifs" and "maybes" above and things might not work like that, but we don't have the source code to see it for ourselves, only Nintendo does. If costs us nothing to ask them to look into it since it appears to be something that would bring value to the gamepad to a lot of people if this thread is any indication. Some people also though that it would be impossible to use OFF-TV in wii mode before the update. We can only ask Nintendo to do what they can, and if it is really impossible than at least they know that this is something that poeple care about and is also something to think about while designing the next hardware iteration.
Juke Joint Jezebel
Member
Doesn't the gamepad have a built in sensor like the wiimote? I figure it could be used as both a classic controller and a wiimote/nunchuk!
Graphics Horse
Member
No it just has a mini sensor bar so you can point wiimotes at it, and the sensor bar is just two clusters of lights. it does have a simple IR sensor too but it's too basic to replicate the wiimote's IR camera.
Hibiki Kurosawa
Member
I've been wanting this so badly for so long. I would love to play Xenoblade Chronicles with nothing but a Wii U gamepad.
It really doesn't make sense to defend it from a technical standpoint especially since if they can get the screen working still while in wii mode
Sending the image to the gamepad could have been as simple as setting some control registers differently.
Setting the control registers is being done anyway, everytime the WiiU gets into Wii mode. It could have been as simple as changing some bytes in a config or changing some bytes in the source code.
I am pretty sure the knowledge to answer most if not all questions exists in the homebrew community.
Contact poeple like Comex or Marcan from Team Twiizers or failoverflow.
Or the authors of devolution.
The Gamecube and Wii sides are pretty well documented on sites like wiibrew.
I just have never seen anything written down for WiiU, maybe there is, and I just missed it.
The knowledge, or at least a good educated guess it out there.
Why doesn't it make sense?
Where is the error in any explanation that you have seen?
What makes you so sure everything as possible with justifyable effort?
Nah, output and input are different. I feel it's like expecting to be able to control a Wii game with your TV remote because you can use it to change the brightness on the video the Wii spits out. All that's happening when the video is sent to the gamepad is that you're changing the monitor you're watching stuff on. The Wii part itself isn't doing anything different from what it's always done.
Ivan el Trolazo
Banned
someone should solder a wiimote + classic controller boards into the gamepad, it would have to have an on/off function but it would be great 
Japanmanx3
Member
Yes, Yes, Yes...
No to the Gamepad usage tho launching Wii games from the WiiU homescreen is a Yes, Yes, YES, Yes (if I'm on the same page with you), Yes, YES (I like Wara, don't know about the slowing part, but it belongs in MiiVerse moreso than Homescreen...maybe Miiverse Updates could be on their like a notification center of sorts for Miiverse specifically without being in the app).
No. See below.
Indeed. I wish the CCP was feasible though. I'm glad they try to be as BC-minded as they are so I can't complain too much but that would be nice.
They sure are, and contact them is indeed a good sugestion. The point is all those things are only documented because of trial and error, and reverse engineering. Nintendo could change things at a lower level that the modders have access to, so things that seem not to be possible today could actually be doable.
LegendofLex
Member
The GamePad stream has hardware components dedicated to it, and can obviously function outside of whatever's going on with Wii Mode. Very different from programming a controller that connects via wi-fi to be recognized by a legacy operating system that only supports controllers that connect via bluetooth.
But while the GamePad stream can run in parallel to the Wii processes without any real customization, the same isn't true for whatever backend processes it'd take to trick the Wii OS into recognizing the GamePad as a controller.
at least on the Wii they reversed engineered it down to the lowest possible level of software.
They disassembled the IOS and found bugs that were exploited. Unless there are hidden things,that Nintendo did not use themself they likely know 95+% of the inner Workings of the Wii. I bet it there is any grey area it is 3D GPU stuff
Also consider how well Dolphin is working, which would rely on that kind of knowledge
There would have been less interest on the WiiU though.
As has been pointed out, the IOS does not handle bluetooth and controllers.
That's a lot of requests for a company that does not listen to its fans at all.
Really good suggestion right there. Instead of each one voicing his own request people shoult team up and strongly support one request at a time.