DXB-KNIGHT
Member
Smash and Splatoon are Nintendo initial push for eSport for now
Nintendo might be developing more new eSports IPs now
Nintendo might be developing more new eSports IPs now
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Nintendo possibly investing more into Esports with the Switch
- Thread starter OmegaSmash
- Start date
If they are not ready now, when will they ever be ready? Apocalypse is inevitable.
I honestly have no idea how you interpreted my words as "people being weird" because I assure you, there is no element of judgment here. I just have a difficult time comprehending why Melee is still so beloved to this day, to the point of obsession. If you were to give me a thorough write-up as to why it's preferred over the latest iterations, I would have been satisfied. Something contextual that I can build off of, other than a simple 'It's better.' I've yet to come across anyone in real life who's been able to explain to me in depth why it's preferred other than 'it's the best in the series.' I'm in the opinion that it isn't, but I want to know why others think it is. Hence my usage of the word mystifying.
I can see Nintendo do a Melee HD and "stealth release" it in the eshop, but only to please the fans.
It's not really business opportunity. It will sell to the fanbase, which, based on the numbers thrown around here, will be around 200k. I can see another 50-100k be added to that due to people interested in FGC, or re-purchasing the game, but outside of that, most purchases will go to Smash 4, simply because it has more than twice the content for the same price.
And in case Melee HD gets sold at a cheaper price it'll needs to sell much more to cover the development costs, which is something i simply don't see happening.
It's not going rank in money like crazy, it's going to be a nice gesture to those who have been loyal over all those years.
It's not really business opportunity. It will sell to the fanbase, which, based on the numbers thrown around here, will be around 200k. I can see another 50-100k be added to that due to people interested in FGC, or re-purchasing the game, but outside of that, most purchases will go to Smash 4, simply because it has more than twice the content for the same price.
And in case Melee HD gets sold at a cheaper price it'll needs to sell much more to cover the development costs, which is something i simply don't see happening.
It's not going rank in money like crazy, it's going to be a nice gesture to those who have been loyal over all those years.
Joeshabadoo
Member
I like to think about Iwata's brilliant guiding hand and analytical/optimized approach to debugging and how Melee was the last entry in the Smash franchise that he touched, and subsequently we can't be too too reductive in calling it a 'beautiful accident'
Iwata was one of the main forces that birthed the very first demo iteration of 64, and in the 11th hour he put his touches on Melee and altered parts of it's DNA as only he could.
Not sure exactly where I'm going with this post, but while I'd love to see a Melee HD and think that stranger things have happened (plenty of HD remakes from Nintendo in recent years, Nintendo well aware of the massive and still expanding competitive scene) I just think it's too easy for them to fuck it up, even with the slightest addition or subtraction. It is a game that is held so incredibly sacred, and for good reason. It isnt perfect though. Certain characters could be tweaked very slightly to be made more viable in high level play, but it would take such talented designers and developers who are deeply plugged in to the scene and the source code.... maybe some Namco people... maybe some of the talent behind Project M. ultimately idk
Iwata was one of the main forces that birthed the very first demo iteration of 64, and in the 11th hour he put his touches on Melee and altered parts of it's DNA as only he could.
Not sure exactly where I'm going with this post, but while I'd love to see a Melee HD and think that stranger things have happened (plenty of HD remakes from Nintendo in recent years, Nintendo well aware of the massive and still expanding competitive scene) I just think it's too easy for them to fuck it up, even with the slightest addition or subtraction. It is a game that is held so incredibly sacred, and for good reason. It isnt perfect though. Certain characters could be tweaked very slightly to be made more viable in high level play, but it would take such talented designers and developers who are deeply plugged in to the scene and the source code.... maybe some Namco people... maybe some of the talent behind Project M. ultimately idk
That's not how it works. Competitive communities establish themselves around platforms, and don't move around unless absolutely necessary. Nintendo would be better served trying to create the new hotness than getting people to buy a new device to play games they're already playing just fine.
SinCityAssassin
Member
Basically they have to make Pokken Tag Tournament.
Love your idea. I was imagining something closer to Strike Vector, but I like the added stratregy elements.
Sylverstone14
Member
I remember watching the Mario Kart 8 World Cup on Twitch, and that was pretty intense.
But I see what you mean in terms of something more digestible for viewers.
Pretty much? Whatever they make, it just needs to not overlap with their current competitive games. It can totally overlap with other popular titles (Overwatch/Guardians and LoL/DOTA 2 are evidence that super similar games can coexist) as long as they don't overlap with their own.
It seems like it has in Japan, and has at least established a visible competitive community elsewhere.
LordKasual
Banned
Nintendo feels way too archaic to handle eSports correctly. They would have to basically heel turn on alot of their currently standing policies.
I'll believe it when i see it, but if the way Smash is handled is any indication, i won't hold my breath.
I'll believe it when i see it, but if the way Smash is handled is any indication, i won't hold my breath.
It plays literally nothing like Smash 4. I'm top ten in my city in the latter but am ass garbage at Melee because the movement options and tech overlap are extremely different.
Only reason I don't play Melee is because Sonics not in it so I wouldn't have my main tbh. If PM was as big as Melee I'd be in that for sure.
pretty done
Member
Weird, never see anything about it on twitch.
Guest12345678
Member
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Honestly, the difference is immediately obvious if you play Melee and Brawl/4 (there are big differences between the two but they are far more similar to each other than they are to Melee/PM). That said, If I had to summarize the differences they would be:
1. Movement. The removal of double jump cancelling, directional airdodges (which in turn kills wavedashing, wavelanding, and several other character specific techs), nerfing of dash dancing to the point of uselessness and removal of jumping momentum all add up to a game where you have far less options for moving around at any given moment. Characters like Luigi, Yoshi, Peach, and Samus are particularly effected by this and as a result their playstyle in Melee is totally different from the proceeding games.
2. Defense. Shields in Smash 4 are far, far stronger than they are in Melee. On top of that, ledge mechanics are more forgiving and characters on the whole have stronger recovery, and air dodges can be used safely with less fear of getting punished. All of these mechanics discourage aggressive play.
3. Speed. With the removal of the above mentioned movement techniques as well as the removal of L cancelling, the game is slowed down significantly. On on top that, characters in Smash 4 fall significantly faster while attacks generally have more knockback (especially with Rage). Combine this with reduced movement options and many combos that existed in Melee are flat out impossible to do in 4.
Modern Warfare Remastered doesn't argue in your favour. Activision are using the game as a carrot to Infinite Warfare's stick, hoping people at least give the game they had to buy a try before moving to the game they wanted to buy. Even if you buy the Physical version of Infinite Warfare, you need to keep the Disc to access Modern Warfare Remastered. Every aspect of the release is driven by fear of splitting the COD userbase.
Doubting it's ability to be worthwhile for Nintendo is silly, since they do have numerous options of handling it that will not cost them terribly much while still having enough appeal to turn a hefty profit on it. The issue it has in *this* discussion is how viable it'd be for building an esports community.
As you said yourself, the issue of splitting the community is always there, but there's actually another aspect that we might be overlooking in regards to splitting the community. Part of what almost certainly has helped Melee stick around as strongly as hit has (especially compared to, say, Street Fighter 2) is that it's effectively only ever been available on one platform (when you remember that the two platforms capable of playing it literally use the same exact disc and accessories) and has never actually had a revision (aside from the European version having tweaks) and has honestly had a really low buy in for a very long time (like, right now, if you have absolutely nothing to get started with, you can get everything you need to play Melee from Gamestop for less than $150). A Switch version would certainly sell well to the general population, but the issues you're going to face on the competitive level is that you have to then convince the competitive scene that it's worth switching to the, er, Switch when the buy in for the old version is almost certainly going to remain significantly lower for a very long time.
To be clear, I do think Nintendo could actually find a way to pull it off and get Melee HD to have just as strong of a community as the old game, but I don't think it's as sure of a bet as just looking at the Melee community and expecting it to immediately jump ship.
The community would jump ship just for online play. Add in QoL features similar to what 20XX has and not having to use CRTs for tournaments anymore and you would pretty much instantly have a new standard version for the competitive community. A switch version would also be portable, which is another plus.
Guest12345678
Member
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Professor Beef
Banned
People are forgetting that a Melee HD would be competing with Smash 4 for sales. They're not going to support a Melee HD for the same reason Capcom gave barely, if any, support for 3SO when it came out.
OmegaSmash
Member
The most people can realistically expect is GameCube VC with Melee as a launch game.
I'm in the same boat. I actually played nothing, but Smash 4 for the first 3-4 months of it's release. I purchased the 3DS version when it came out than Smash 4 when it came out. I actually had a lot of high expectations of 4 because the 3DS version was so good. Once 4 came out and I could play it on a GC controller, that was when the game started to fall apart. I continued to play no Smash, but Smash 4 for at least 3 months.
The limitation of character movement was just too much for me. I still play it every few weeks with my close friends that only play Smash 4, but if it weren't for them I would be completely done with the game. Amazing game though, but I just don't have time for it. I feel like gamers only have time for 1 MMO or 1 Competitive Game and Smash 4 just wouldn't be my choice for that. Melee is my game for life, if it weren't for Melee it would be Rocket League. The tech skill available in that game is just too much fun/satisfying.
Why people think anything, but this is insane.
I don't believe you. You can be satisfied by the explanation below if you want to prove me wrong.
Yup
I agree, it's easy to mess up, but I think the Melee community would support it regardless. Worst case scenario it sells 500k-2 Million and we stick to CRTs for the competitive scene. It would still be a great introduction to the community. I've seen tons of people jump from Smash 4 to Melee or from PM to Melee. We would still love it.
Nailed it!
But I don't think it would hurt Smash 4 at all, if anything it might help Smash 4 because Melee fans would finally buy a new Nintendo console for Melee and then they would try Smash 4 because it's more Smash on the same console. They might not play it competitively, but they'd want to try it.
Yup.
Doing that would be the equivalent of releasing Modern Warfare Remastered separately. If Nintendo were actually serious about establishing themselves in competitive communities, it would be in their best interest to bury Melee and push everyone to the new product.
How is a VC release for a GameCube game on a NIntendo platform the same as an Activision Remaster for a game on PC/PS4/XONE?
chaosblade
Unconfirmed Member
The only reason the Melee community wouldnt jump to a new version ASAP would be if Nintendo ruined it with a poor attempt at rebalancing, or if the new version is somehow flawed, like unavoidable emulator lag or framerate problems for a VC release.
It's weird that so many people talk about what Melee players and the community think despite it being nothing more than their own preconceived notions.
It's weird that so many people talk about what Melee players and the community think despite it being nothing more than their own preconceived notions.
Yeah.
It's like.
"We know nothing about the community and participate in it NOT AT ALL, but this is how the community will respond. I'm certain."
LOL
Get out of here.
If these notions didn't have to be corrected we could focus on other eSports potential titles like Mario Kart Double Dash and F-Zero.
freethoughtbubble
Member
Eh, if Nintendo were really serious about establishing themselves in competitive communities, they would attempt to unify the two scenes by making the next Smash faster, more technical, and more exciting to watch from a spectator perspective. More like Melee, in other words.
Anyway, getting off Smash... If Nintendo mishandles the Splatoon situation, I'll be very disappointed because that game has esports stardom written all over it. All we really need is a proper spectator mode and a large Switch userbase, and we'd be off to the races.
Inb4 someone argues Melee only gets more views cause s4 runs on saturdays.
I wish I saved the link but there was a reddit post that showed even when S4 is the last game on Sunday, Melee gets more viewers. The only exception was CEO
freethoughtbubble
Member
There's a lot of magical thinking that gets thrown around on the subject of Melee for some reason...
I played Melee online for several hours yesterday over wi-fi through an emulator and it worked fine. I'm sure Nintendo can manage, especially when every other twitch MP game (CS, SF, etc) has functioning online.
My gut reaction to the thread title is "Ugh. Not you, too. You were the chosen one! " etc.
followed by "... Is Nintendo even savvy enough to pull off something as current and "trending" as modern-day eSports? I'm still waiting for them to fully figure out basic things like account systems."
Sorry, not trying to be shitposty with this, it's just that as someone who hates PvP in all forms (it's not even about being bad, though, make no mistake, I'm awful at PvP. I just literally derive no pleasure from beating another person at something) and who gravitates towards single-player/co-op games, story-driven games, etc.
, it's disheartening to see even Nintendo looking at jumping on the eSports train.
But from a business standpoint I can't say I blame them, and I guess it's far more likely that this won't actually mean abandoning their usual stuff in favor of eSports, and is more like them finally putting in greater-than-0 effort.
followed by "... Is Nintendo even savvy enough to pull off something as current and "trending" as modern-day eSports? I'm still waiting for them to fully figure out basic things like account systems."
Sorry, not trying to be shitposty with this, it's just that as someone who hates PvP in all forms (it's not even about being bad, though, make no mistake, I'm awful at PvP. I just literally derive no pleasure from beating another person at something) and who gravitates towards single-player/co-op games, story-driven games, etc.
Subspace Emissary is my favorite thing across all Smash games, yes, really.
But from a business standpoint I can't say I blame them, and I guess it's far more likely that this won't actually mean abandoning their usual stuff in favor of eSports, and is more like them finally putting in greater-than-0 effort.
100%, but like Evolve and Battleborn, developers don't always have a choice. Nintendo should support Melee/Smash 4 since those scenes are established and thriving and they can use those scenes to help support and grow Splatoon.
Trying to make Splatoon into an eSport on their own seems foolish.
Nintendo is in the same position that Activision is releasing CoD4R with IW. I would say it's worse in Nintendo's case because Activision is already giving the remaster a competitive playlist so they are prepared to catch that crowd at the jump. Maybe even more so then IW which is their new product. The vibe they have given off in terms of all of this is a "last game standing" between IW and Cod4R
I think Nintendo is in a good spot to launch Melee HD. Smash4 been out for a few years. It has it's fanbase. Melee won't eat it's lunch that much.
I personally think they haven't shown the comp/FGC scene that they are all the way in on this stuff like Sony and MS did in the past. I can see them go solo for a bit.
I think Nintendo is in a good spot to launch Melee HD. Smash4 been out for a few years. It has it's fanbase. Melee won't eat it's lunch that much.
I personally think they haven't shown the comp/FGC scene that they are all the way in on this stuff like Sony and MS did in the past. I can see them go solo for a bit.
I had no idea splatoon was that big in Japan.
It literally carried the WiiU by itself in Japan until Mario Maker released, and when Mario Maker disappeared from the charts, it continued carrying the console almost entirely alone (with some help of the occasional WiiU releases) until recently.
So yeah, it is pretty big over there in Japan. A bit more than every third WiiU owner there owns the game