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[viciouskillersquirrel]

Hang on, I'm lost.

Spoiler

Are you (squirrel) saying that Rauru didn't build the Lanaryu/castle town market ToT, but he did build the Faron woods/sealed grounds ToT? I doubt Nintendo had that in mind when they were making OoT, but your version makes more sense.

Tyeforce, a link for your quote would be nice.

I'm saying that

Spoiler

he either built both or only the Faron one. I'm thinking that whoever wrote the bit on the ToT goofed (or whoever translated it did). Either that or it's being quoted out of context.

Because it seems to me that it neatly explains an inconsistency between OoT and TP (the location of the ToT).

Remember that the temples were both already there, so the most Rauru need ever do us upgrade/refurbish them and put a roof on top of the Lanaryu one.

Presumably, Rauru was a descendent of Link and Zelda (and headmaster Gaepora) during the wars for the Triforce. He would have been trying to defend the Triforce, hence the building projects.

 

[Tyeforce]

Spoiler

The text you posted talks about the Temple of Time in the centre of Hyrule i.e. the one in Lanaryu that was already called the Temple of Time, not the one in the south. That passage doesn't even mention the Sealed Grounds / Temple of Hylia.

Look at the TP map sometime - Lanaryu forms the centre of Hyrule. Also, even Skyward Sword implies that the Lanaryu Temple of Time and the Temple of Hylia are twins in that they both contain a Gate of Time.

All the second passage confirms is what I'm saying - that the Sealed Grounds also became known as the Temple of Time..

Spoiler

But the Lanayru Temple of Time isn't in the middle of Hyrule. It's far west, closer to where Gerudo Desert would be.

It would make more sense if the Sealed Grounds was the center of Hyrule from the perspective of the people who established it. After all, it is where they first arrived on the surface, and it's where the Isle of the Goddess from Skyloft fell, and where the Triforce was used. It's the center of everything. In time, it would become Castle Town.

And the second passage says more than that. It reads "Though it bears the same name as the temple that stood in the desert in ancient times", past tense. It implies that the Lanayru Temple of Time was lost with time. Besides, that's not even where the Master Sword is located, so it can't be the Temple of Time from Ocarina of Time or Twilight Princess.

Tyeforce, a link for your quote would be nice.

Oh, sorry, here: http://www.glitterberri.com/hyrule-historia/page-77/

 

[Xun]

Presumably, Rauru was a descendent of Link and Zelda (and headmaster Gaepora) during the wars for the Triforce.

Spoiler

Nothing suggests they get together though, even despite Zelda essentially saying at the beginning how much she likes Link.

 

[viciouskillersquirrel]

Spoiler

But the Lanayru Temple of Time isn't in the middle of Hyrule. It's far west, closer to where Gerudo Desert would be.

It would make more sense if the Sealed Grounds was the center of Hyrule from the perspective of the people who established it. After all, it is where they first arrived on the surface, and it's where the Isle of the Goddess from Skyloft fell, and where the Triforce was used. It's the center of everything. In time, it would become Castle Town.

And the second passage says more than that. It reads "Though it bears the same name as the temple that stood in the desert in ancient times", past tense. It implies that the Lanayru Temple of Time was lost with time. Besides, that's not even where the Master Sword is located, so it can't be the Temple of Time from Ocarina of Time or Twilight Princess.

Oh, sorry, here: http://www.glitterberri.com/hyrule-historia/page-77/

I wouldn't go by the semantics of the translation as being definitive proof, and definitely not for a language so different from English as Japanese.

Also, arguing geography in Zelda is a fool's errand. The fact is that all you can ever do is point to vague generalities (and even then, only for the later games). I'll see if I can't find alternate translations, shall I?

 

[Marlowe89]

I wouldn't go by the semantics of the translation as being definitive proof, and definitely not for a language so different from English as Japanese.

Also, arguing geography in Zelda is a fool's errand. The fact is that all you can ever do is point to vague generalities (and even then, only for the later games). I'll see if I can't find alternate translations, shall I?

Protip, son. "BUT THE TRANSLATION COULD BE WRONG" and "ARGUING GEOGRAPHY IS SILLY EVEN THOUGH THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT I'VE BEEN DOING AS WELL" aren't very convincing arguments.

Let's be honest, it's essentially confirmed at this point that the Sealed Temple from SS is the Temple of Time from OoT and TP. Lanayru's Temple of Time is old news, and the leaps in logic we'd have to conjure from our asses (like a moving Master Sword) to make it the same just would be a bit too much. And that's discounting the evidence that was already present before this confirmation.

Also WHERE DEM WIND WAKER TRANSLATIONS? A single page isn't good enough. I demand more!

 

[The Boat]

Not really a SS spoiler, but I'll put it as a link anyway if you don't want to see a scenery that will appear in the game (sorry for the bad image quality):
http://img822.imageshack.us/img822/4356/picturecw.jpg
Compare it to this:

It's not like Nintendo wants to match the geography exactly that would be a constraint to their overworld design and since it's all about legends anyway, you can always play that card.
Still,

Spoiler

I think the Lanaryu desert became part Gerudo desert and part Lake Hylia, everything fits, you even find Gerudo Dragonflies in Lanaryu! The desert Temple of Time probably became the Spirit Temple and later the Arbiter Grounds (if it didn't, who cares, it's just fun speculation) and where the water resurfaced it became Lake Hylia.
The most immediate and simple explanation that covers everything or most is that Hyrule Town moved North to where it is in TP for some reason. That way the Master Sword wouldn't have moved and the geography mostly matches. Everything makes sense.

 

[Franchuzas87]

These days I've been putting together a chronology with all relevant events. Just today I made a post on my blog with it, but unfortunately I've done it in Spanish (my native language) . I leave it here anyway, for those interested:

Cronología zéldica completa (spoilers, obviously)

 

[Sagitario]

While reading over “The Full History of Hyrule,” it’s possible that
some parts may look contradictory. For instance, the Mogma race or the
beetle item that appear on the very first story do not appear on any
other game that takes place in the future. I’d like to ask everyone
just to enjoy the book and to be broad-minded, and to think that those
parts are the way they are because of the way Zelda games are
developed.

Love this quote!

 

[Fuzzy]

These days I've been putting together a chronology with all relevant events. Just today I made a post on my blog with it, but unfortunately I've done it in Spanish (my native language) . I leave it here anyway, for those interested:

Cronología zéldica completa (spoilers, obviously)

Now you have an obligation to translate it.

Spoiler

Nice job from what I can understand.

 

[Franchuzas87]

Now you have an obligation to translate it.

Spoiler

Nice job from what I can understand.

I would, but I'm not that good with English, and it's a lot of text

 

[Tathanen]

Love this quote!

Yep. And that's why, squirrel, I think the moving of the master sword isn't really the answer. The only problem is that maps don't match up. The maps don't match up across virtually EVERY game, I'm certainly not going to make wild assumptions like two rebuilt Temples of Time with a moved Master Sword for no given reason. These maps were probably built before the plot of the game was but a glimmer in the script-writer's eyes. "We'll have Death Mountain somewhere, Lake Hylia somewhere, and a desert." The placement is a roll of the dice every time there's a new game. If there's ANYTHING that was lost to the "mists of legend," it's the authentic geography of Hyrule.

If Aonuma wants me to just accept some hand waving for inconsistencies, I'm gonna take his generous offer.

 

[viciouskillersquirrel]

Not really a SS spoiler, but I'll put it as a link anyway if you don't want to see a scenery that will appear in the game (sorry for the bad image quality):
http://img822.imageshack.us/img822/4356/picturecw.jpg
Compare it to this:

It's not like Nintendo wants to match the geography exactly that would be a constraint to their overworld design and since it's all about legends anyway, you can always play that card.
Still,

Spoiler

I think the Lanaryu desert became part Gerudo desert and part Lake Hylia, everything fits, you even find Gerudo Dragonflies in Lanaryu! The desert Temple of Time probably became the Spirit Temple and later the Arbiter Grounds (if it didn't, who cares, it's just fun speculation) and where the water resurfaced it became Lake Hylia.
The most immediate and simple explanation that covers everything or most is that Hyrule Town moved North to where it is in TP for some reason. That way the Master Sword wouldn't have moved and the geography mostly matches. Everything makes sense.

Except that Lanaryu is where Hyrule Castle Town sits in TP and it's very pointedly not a desert. This is what I mean - you can't rely on specifics between games. Either way there's a contradiction here between the location of the ToT between games.

I'm saying that a plinth moved. You're saying a whole town moved. Neither explanation is very satisfying, unfortunately. That Aonuma quote about contradictions between games is very apropos.

 

[Keith Stack]

Is there anything that outright prevents the plot of the CDi games or the animated series from having occurred at some point in the time line?

 

[WillyFive]

Is there anything that outright prevents the plot of the CDi games or the animated series from having occurred at some point in the time line?

Nintendo didn't make them.

 

[Emitan]

Nintendo didn't make them.

minishcapboxart.jpg

 

[MisterHero]

The Zelda cartoon actually has a very strong sense of continuity which was extended with the Valiant/Nintendo Comics System

It even had letters from fans asking how the Zelda world worked back then

 

[viciouskillersquirrel]

Is there anything that outright prevents the plot of the CDi games or the animated series from having occurred at some point in the time line?

Nothing in canon, at least. The devs seem to have intended for them to have taken place some time after Zelda 2.

But yeah, they're not recognised in the timeline or in the book at all (even Link's Crossbow Training was).

 

[Anticitizen One]

Is it ever explained in continuity as to why there are 2 different Ganons in the series?

There is of course Ganondorf the dude:

and then there is the REAL Ganon from the 80s and 90s. The "King Koopa/Bowser" of the Zelda series:

I haven't played skyward sword yet so please don't spoil that I was just wondering yes or no if its ever explained and in what game?

 

[webrunner]

Is it ever explained in continuity as to why there are 2 different Ganons in the series?

There is of course Ganondorf the dude:

and then there is the REAL Ganon from the 80s and 90s. The "King Koopa/Bowser" of the Zelda series:

I haven't played skyward sword yet so please don't spoil that I was just wondering yes or no if its ever explained and in what game?

Ganon is Ganondorf's beastial form. You see him transform such in OOT and TP

 

[EmCeeGramr]

It was explained in Link to the Past and Ocarina of Time.

 

[Anticitizen One]

Well I know that Ganondorf transforms into boar like creature in OOT and TP but when he's that form he's a big rampaging monster. In the older games and the cartoon it seems like he was permanently that way.

 

[DarkKyo]

Well I know that Ganondorf transforms into boar like creature in OOT and TP but when he's that form he's a big rampaging monster. In the older games and the cartoon it seems like he was permanently that way.

Well those are apparently after he spends time alive as Ganondorf. Maybe he sheds his humanoid form and remains a beast in that timeline because he reigns supreme over the course of a few games.

 

[MisterHero]

Yeah he probably permanently alters himself after getting old as a mortal (even a powerful one).

Being kept in the Sacred Realm also helped twist his form (like it did to everyone who entered it in LttP)

 

[zethren]

It isn't that much of a 'what if' if you consider all the people who started Ocarina but didn't finish it, therefore establishing the 'failure' timeline.

I thought it wasn't so much of a "link failed" scenario as a "link disappeared" scenario. I heard that he completely disappeared from that time line altogether for some time, allowing Gannondorf to reign supreme for a time until Link's return.

Haven't really sat down and looked at any of the "officially" released nintendo timeline stuff yet though.

 

[EmCeeGramr]

I thought it wasn't so much of a "link failed" scenario as a "link disappeared" scenario. I heard that he completely disappeared from that time line altogether for some time, allowing Gannondorf to reign supreme for a time until Link's return.

Haven't really sat down and looked at any of the "officially" released nintendo timeline stuff yet though.

Those are two different things.

 

[Big One]

Well I know that Ganondorf transforms into boar like creature in OOT and TP but when he's that form he's a big rampaging monster. In the older games and the cartoon it seems like he was permanently that way.

The cartoon isn't likely in continuity but there is an explanation for the older games.

Basically what happens, according to Hyrule Historia, is that Ganondorf pretty much officially dies around the time of ALttP. In Oracles and Legend of Zelda, he's no longer Ganondorf, but rather he's a mindless demon. He keeps getting resurrected but not in completion. This COULD be because that in the BS-X game Ancient Stone Tablets, you defeat Ganondorf's essence once and for it which still lingered on after his death, but Ancient Stone Tablets isn't part of the chronicles so whatever.

Just my input at least

 

[Prime Blue]

Thinking about it, it's kind of sad.

Link had to die for us to get some great Zelda games without constant handholding and boring introductions.

 

[RagnarokX]

Thinking about it, A Link to the Past is essentially the flood game people have been asking for, but in an alternate timeline where a hero does show up and kicks Ganon's ass. The game does begin with a rain storm

 

[z0m3le]

Time line explanations:

A: In OOT, Link travels through time, causing a separate time line to emerge. Meaning Link never stops Ganon at all.

B: After sleeping for 7 years, link as an adult elf stops Ganon and travels back into time, causing a third time line to be created, where he continues his adventure into Majora's Mask.

C: After Link leaves to be a child again, Ganon has no one to stop him, leading to a flooding of Hyrule and The Wind Waker game follows.

Hmm, Seems legit.

If you treat each time travel as a new time line, this is theoretically possible if you believe in multiple dimensions that is.

This also means that Majora's Mask is the proper timeline, the one Link eventually ends up in.

 

[Brickhunt]

I agree with z0m3le, the "Link failed" scenario is the only one I'll refuse Nintendo's explanation for being a "What if" scenario (The three split timeline is a very good idea). I personally take the fan theory that Link left that timeline forever when he went back in time to his childhood to get the lens of truth.

It's more or less like Zelda with the Ocarina of Time, she sent Link back to the past and this created two timelines. Link sending himself via the pedestal of time had the same effect, it split the timeline since Link changed things in the past that weren't present in the present he left. The only real difference is that Link, instead of dying fighting Ganondorf, is no longer there to stop him. Besides that, it doesn't change anything established.

 

[radcliff]

I agree with z0m3le, the "Link failed" scenario is the only one I'll refuse Nintendo's explanation for being a "What if" scenario (The three split timeline is a very good idea). I personally take the fan theory that Link left that timeline forever when he went back in time to his childhood to get the lens of truth.

It's more or less like Zelda with the Ocarina of Time, she sent Link back to the past and this created two timelines. Link sending himself via the pedestal of time had the same effect, it split the timeline since Link changed things in the past that weren't present in the present he left. The only real difference is that Link, instead of dying fighting Ganondorf, is no longer there to stop him. Besides that, it doesn't change anything established.

This theory doesn't work. Even if we are to assume that an "abandoned timeline" was created (something that is not supported by the official timeline), that would mean no one was around to free the Sages, the ones who seal Ganon in the Golden Realm setting up ALTTP. In order for it to work, Link has to fail after he frees the Sages, not before. Therefore losing in battle with Ganon makes sense, even if it is a "what if" scenario.

 

[AlucarD.eq]

Hey guys in case you are looking for a good website to check the translations, you should check http://www.zeldanut.com/historia/ >_< I haven't been able to get a book in China sigh

 

[Nairume]

This theory doesn't work. Even if we are to assume that an "abandoned timeline" was created (something that is not supported by the official timeline), that would mean no one was around to free the Sages, the ones who seal Ganon in the Golden Realm setting up ALTTP. In order for it to work, Link has to fail after he frees the Sages, not before. Therefore losing in battle with Ganon makes sense, even if it is a "what if" scenario.

I thought it was implied that the sages in OoT were different from the wise men mentioned in ALttP, given their descendants were Hylians.

 

[Faddy]

Don't worry guys, speedrunners have found the third ending to OoT. The timeline now makes perfect sense.