Okami Haundo
Member
I'll second this. The Wii-U is on life support while the 3DS has some great games coming throughout the end of the year. Makes no sense to drag on with the Wii-U for longer than the next few months, let alone over a year.
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I'll second this. The Wii-U is on life support while the 3DS has some great games coming throughout the end of the year. Makes no sense to drag on with the Wii-U for longer than the next few months, let alone over a year.
I believe it´s even the same source. The "Nintendo insiders" seem to know each other quite well. There´s probably just one leaker who spreads his information to several people. Obviously they talk to each other and exchange their news. Suddenly there´s not one source but multiple and it´s a credible rumor.
Emily Rogers said:
See the bolded.
Yeah, I can't see NX launching less than $300 if they're aiming for XB1 specs, while still trying to make a profit on day one.
It also doesn't make sense since Wii U is still $300.
Calm Mind
Member
FTFY
lwilliams3
Member
I'm not sure about the GPU being different, but numerous sources did say that the GPU was overheating. It apparently ran @ 400MHz, though, vs 550MHz inside the final Wii U. I believe lherre was the one to give us those numbers.
The CPU was also boosted from 1GHz to 1.24GHZ between the first and final dev kit. The issue with the CPU was that the initial documents stated that it was similar to 360's CPU. Even the first dev kits didn't reflect that.
Dark Cloud
Member
I don't think Nintendos only innovation with NX is just one cartridge that can be played on handheld and console.
I feel like there has to be more to it. Nintendo said "it's a new way to play". Now that can be taken different ways, but I'm starting to wonder if this hologram/projection patents will come into play.
I feel like there has to be more to it. Nintendo said "it's a new way to play". Now that can be taken different ways, but I'm starting to wonder if this hologram/projection patents will come into play.
Tom Nook Sawyer
Member
Every Nintendo console is on life-support until the next one launches. With how poor the Wii U's done in general, it's not like holding out a bit longer on its successor would damage them much more.
Capitalizing on their mobile momentum might be the smarter move as a launching off point for a potential family of systems.
WiiU chip has only gotten more expensive and exotic to make. This is what has kept price from dropping and why you can laugh at anyone who thinka the NX will use an OCed WiiU chip.
Also anyone have the numbers on Pascal Tegra? I think that and the X1/K1 can probably ballpark us on performance given what has been spreading. I am thinking 2.1 to 2.5 GHz ARM CPU potentially on Denver or something similar, and a GPU of the aforementioned. Up clock the console, downclock the handheld. So ~1.X Teraflops in the console variant such that X less than the GPU TF raw on X1.
Put those together and you have a device that fits all rumors. Some people end up disappointed. Some end up not if we want to include lherre as well. Ans it's loosely a chip set based hybrid as it uses similar guts.
Ans probably pushes 900/1080 fairly robustly. I am also pretty sure Thraktor covered this as a real option a while back.
Napalm_Frank
Member
XB1 level is dissapointing in 2017 but I am way more interested in their handheld anyway now that Sony will ride Vita to it's grave. Especially if they have a shared library and every NX console game is available on the handheld.
Welp. It's definitely a pattern now. Anyone who believes otherwise is in denial. The same goes for people who think that it's just a case of the specs looking close due to different architectures.
Other answers were given for this, but there's one more: There isn't a cheaper option which matches Xbone. My guess is that they're forced to use something like the A72 or Denver anyway, and that it doesn't save them any money to just turn down the clocks since these cores are really low-power anyway. Also, as said, the Xbone is bottlenecked by its CPU anyway.
I think I already know exactly what they're aiming for here in terms of GPU. If anyone wants to hear my theory I'll go ahead. I promise that it's reasonable and not exaggerated.
Did he actually say that he wants it to be cheap, though? I've only seen that said once, and it may have been a mistranslation.
Is this speculation or what you've heard? $200 would mean dramatically less powerful than Xbone (bigger than the gap between PS4 and XB1), so if that's what you're speculating based on what you heard this thing can't run modern AAA games in HD.
LegendofLex
Member
The most prevalent change in their marketing strategy is to get people interested in their IP through mobile games.
What does that tell you about the audience they're targeting?
ecosse_011172
Junior Member
So, the pattern repeats itself yet again.
Shame.
Shame.
One thing I learned with Nintendo is they know how to surprise their costumers, Iwata worked on that machine, it's kinda one of his lastest legacy with the OqL project.
I'm not saying NX will the most powerfull of all machine and if it's just as powerfull as XBX 1, I wont mind because with just the Wii U, Nintendo was able to make beautiful games. So they will be able to make more pretty games with NX.
But yeah, the NX if they didn't changed it too much we might feel a bit what Iwata wante dto convey with it a little bit *sad smile*
LCGeek and OsirisBlack, 99.9%, aren't related to the "Nintendo insiders" you talk about, considering the kind of users they are. But I can believe your theory when you talk about Emily Rogers, Liam Robertson, Nintendo World Report and Shocking Alberto (and others). I can definitely see a strong possiblity most of these users share the same person(s) stating something (however, I trust Emily more due to her more recent correct guesses, 2013 up to today). Actually, I believe Liam Robertson and Shocking Alberto share the exact same person leaking stuff, someone with a more "pessimistic" view on things overall, if you ask me
Plinko
Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
I think a lot of people are expecting "low" power (XB1/PS4-esque, with insiders saying games on those systems should easily be ported over with no issues) but a price over $300.
In 2017, that doesn't make a ton of sense, especially with it looking like the tablet controller is gone.
There were rumors last year that Nintendo was aiming for a price tag that was appealing for impulse buys. $300+ isn't that number.
In 2017, that doesn't make a ton of sense, especially with it looking like the tablet controller is gone.
There were rumors last year that Nintendo was aiming for a price tag that was appealing for impulse buys. $300+ isn't that number.
Hero of Legend
Member
Weren't the rumors sort of like that the NX has numbers a bit above XB1 in raw numbers but with more modern chips (likely from Nvidia) it'd be much better than it'd seem on paper or something?
And the CPU thing from LCGeek might be that interpreted in that same way, where it's either better than both XB1 and PS4 in raw numbers, or, identical to XBO (hell wasn't that one of the only things it did better than PS4?) but again, if it's say an Nvidia chip, maybe it's more efficient or something and does more... or something? Know what I mean?
And the CPU thing from LCGeek might be that interpreted in that same way, where it's either better than both XB1 and PS4 in raw numbers, or, identical to XBO (hell wasn't that one of the only things it did better than PS4?) but again, if it's say an Nvidia chip, maybe it's more efficient or something and does more... or something? Know what I mean?
That would still count as speculation, not as something that we know. I was only arguing that it's not something that we "know." I'm expecting a $250 price if it matches either current console, or sub-$200 if Nintendo's just making a Nintendo box. Honestly though, if they're not going to at least match Xbone, I personally think they should just aim for something on-par with Wii U with a $100-150 target and $30-40 games. If it's going to be a Nintendo box and nothing more anyway, it's best to just make it as cheap as possible so that Nintendo fans feel comfortable buying it as a secondary console. A $200 NX has no chance of success whatsoever.
No, that's just how optimistic people want to interpret it since Emily was vague. As I've said, I have some guesses and I'm pretty sure that they're spot-on. Nvidia's Pascal architecture has some limitations which make it easy to predict what Nintendo will end up doing with it. If it's Maxwell though, we're fucked.
You don't get forced into a CPU, what sort of dumb shit is this? They've been on record for a while now about the troubles they've had with the WiiU's CPU. Its obvious that they went with a CPU option that they felt solved their shortcomings with the WiiU.
We have no idea how they felt on the GPU side of things, but from the sounds of it, not more than some multiple of the WiiU's GPU. And, of course, RAM is still completely unknown.
And, anyway, as I noted a Pascal/Maxwell on the Tegra with an A72, A53, or Denver will achieve the needed clock speeds we've heard reported (A72 would put it well above the Jaguar clock for clock, and A53 would in line). None of these would be expensive, and the Pascal/Maxwell would get us to that X1 magical TFLOPS number of 1.31 that seems to be our ceiling. Depending on the family, what that 1.X TFLOPS (if even that high) corresponds to will change, obviously. I'd be willing to be the console variety will at the least be upclocked within earshot of the X1 in raw if its going to be easy to port as noted.
They can fit that in at aorund 250$ if nVidia is actually cutting them a deal, and given the state of failure of the Tegra line.
Shikamaru Ninja
任天å ã® å¿è
LCGeek and OsirisBlack, 99.9%, aren't related to the "Nintendo insiders" you talk about, considering the kind of users they are. But I can believe your theory when you talk about Emily Rogers, Liam Robertson, Nintendo World Report and Shocking Alberto (and others). I can definitely see a strong possiblity most of these users share the same person(s) stating something (however, I trust Emily more due to her more recent correct guesses, 2013 up to today). Actually, I believe Liam Robertson and Shocking Alberto share the exact same person leaking stuff, someone with a more "pessimistic" view on things overall, if you ask me
What are those exactly?
Hero of Legend
Member
I believe she correctly called the April 1st, 2015 Direct before it was announced.
No, I mean that they'd be forced into a certain class of CPU by either the level of performance they're targeting or by compatibility with the GPU, and that the benefit to simply clocking it lower just for the sake of being closer to Xbone would be non-existent. Basically, say that the A72 is the only CPU that meets all of their requirements. No, say that it meets those requirements at 1.5GHz, but going for 2.0GHz doesn't have any real impact on costs, power consumption, heat or yields. So then, why not? Especially after being burned in their decisions to be conservative with the Wii U and 3DS CPUs?
Also, I don't see Maxwell being good enough since I have a strong feeling that Nintendo doesn't want NX to use more power than Wii U. If it's Maxwell in that case, we'd be looking at something much slower than Xbox One.
Shikamaru Ninja
任天å ã® å¿è
I think there has been work done on how Paper Mario U was a rumor from another source that she just corroborated on. Just like Zelda NX (from Trev leak / and general intelligent speculation).
They are "forced" into a wide bracket of CPU options, thats an entirely meaningless distinction and word choice that makes it sound like they haplessly fell into a better CPU option. You may as well have said they were "forced" into not using a CPU from 1982. Generally, when you plan the development of a piece of hardware, you don't stumble your way around the components. You start with the demands and find what suits them, costs, etc. They've wanted a faster, more capable CPU for a while now and are on record about it. They didn't just randomly fall into it because their GPU demanded more. Your logic flow is nonsensical to the point where I am almost certain you intentionally spin the logic in reverse to try and be as negative as possible.
The Jaguars weren't some coincidence either, they were promised to be more than what was delivered and the end result was a stuck design. They didn't intentionally pick-out shitty CPUs.
Based on absolutely nothing. True or not in the end, these sorts of claims just make me laugh.
I'm generally erring on ruling out Maxwell if the solution is nVidia because of Kuwa and Osiris on the ports/third party info. I don't think Maxwell could handle that well in the Tegra chip line.
Plinko
Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
There was Paper Mario Wii U news out there before Emily Rogers said anything.
I feel like you're completely misunderstanding what I'm saying. Maybe "forced" was the wrong word. I don't know how to better explain what I mean, so I'll drop the issue. It was only a possibility I was trying to present anyway.
Uh... You know that there's a Maxwell-based Tegra, right? Not that it matters since the SoC likely isn't a Tegra at all, but a custom SoC. People are only calling it "Tegra" because that's what comes to mind when people think Nvidia+ARM SoC. ALso, it's based on Nintendo's design philosophy for at least three generations in a row. That's far from "nothing."
I guess nobody wants to hear what I had to say then, Pity, I think it would have been insightful and taught people a few things they didn't know about Maxwell/Pascal/GCN4.
Dark Cloud
Member
Paper Mario U rumor was out since last year. I think Japan had some job fair thing and the Intelligent Systems guys where there and their brochure or whatever said they were working on Paper Mario. That's where the rumor started. Earlier this year Emily said they were working on Paper Mario, but I mean that job fair thing practically confirmed it already.
It is unacceptable for a new console in 2017 to be unable to run games in 1080p30fps (60 depending on the game). Also, I don't think they will use a mobile GPU for the home console.The tegra X1 is ~0.5 Tflops and the P1 is highly unlikely. What they need is something similar to r9 460.Cheap and efficient.
My prediction is 250$ for the "basic" SKU and 300$ with more capacity.
My prediction is 250$ for the "basic" SKU and 300$ with more capacity.
Well, technically the Wii U can do that...
Oh yeah.. why did I expect them to talk about the Animal Crossing and Fire Emblem game that are due this year during E3...
Are they saving those for the NX reveal?
RAM aside, a console from 2006 could run them better.
Kissenkopf
Banned
This.
Until now everybody was wrong and all insiders failed hard in the last few months. So i dont trust anybody at this point.
lwilliams3
Member
Is the XBO and the PS4 only around 50% apart with the GPU and 15% apart the other way around with the CPU? Those are not major differences, and non-final systems has been known to change more than that during development.
You really only have yourself to blame for this.
And yes I am aware of the Tegra-Maxwell, that wasn't what I was talking about. My point was that the Maxwell line as is available with the Tegra integration doesn't quite gel with the other leaks of the porting being easy or the third party support. This of course assumed a Maxwell-Tegra. And ballparking "easy porting" from X1 and PS4 really does give you a higher TFLOPs on the GPU if the porting is going to be easy rather than a hassle (to sit within a much lower spec). If the statement is true, even with loose definitions of "easy", you'd almost assuredly be looking at a GPU that can push ~1TFLOPs. Thats already near a 25% drop from the X1's GPU and starts pushing on the definition of "easy".
Honestly, over the past month, now, we've had a lot of rumors surface here and externally, and they are honestly all seemingly coming from all sorts of opposing and seemingly contradictory directions (though they seem to travel in pairs, which itself rather weird). Then it just becomes a question of which rumor one wants to cling to, and from there we get to today.
a.) "Its this powerful." "Its that powerful." "Its not powerful at all."
b.) "Third parties don't have kits/software lined up." "Third parties do have kits/software lined up (later being more a toss up)." "Only Japanese third parties..."
c.) "Mhmm." "Hmmhm." "Mmhmmh."
d.) "Litten." "Rowlett." "Fuck Poplio."
Now we can add:
e.) "Its a handheld with an HDMI out. Hybrid." "Its not a hyrbrid."
Soon I expect someone to claim that the NX is actually a small ostrich with a VR headset attached, and you ride the ostrich with the headset on. (I won't tell you if its the ostrich or you wearing the headset.)
About the only thing anyone seems sure about is that plenty of (sic:good) software is on the way as that seems to be the lone common theme. And the lone confirmation on the CPU end of things from actual documentation.
Skittzo0413
Member
I like your imagination! I myself expect only an emu level system but maybe they'll have a pro ostrich option.
I agree whole heartedly with everything you said, good post!
Hero of Legend
Member
That would be easy to emulate.
Skittzo0413
Member
Very nice, well done!
Back (sorta) on topic is there any downside in Nintendo releasing an pro level NX somewhere between Neo and Scorpio power as an option at launch along with a much cheaper ~PS4-XB1 level machine? It would essentially even the playing field as far as any third parties are concerned (power wise anyway) and since there is a cheaper option the whole NX ecosystem would still be within impulse buy territory.
Maybe I'm weird, but this Neo and Scorpio situation makes me think that it makes graphics, or rather, power difference within a certain reasonable distance even less relevant.
I'll even ignore NX's existence, we are going to get several levels of graphic fidelity at several different price ranges, kind of going up in a stair until you reach the "top" with the PC. Assuming developers aren't going to do Neo and Scorpio exclusives, all consoles will be within spitting distance visually for most of the consumers.
From an XB1 to a great PC, there isn't a potential difference that significant that makes an XB1 not viable, not marketable, not minimally desirable to the general market. A market that really doesn't notice all the FPS, AA, Vsync, ambient occlusion, techwizard black magic thingies that are going on and/or maybe doesn't care enough to shell out more money for that difference. I really don't think hardware power is playing a significant part in this "race" and it rarely, if ever, has before.
This isn't even comparable to the gulf between Wii and PS360 or even Wii U and PS4 and X1, the same games can run on all hardware and most people won't care for the difference. Baring exclusives, the games are and will be the same too.
Now let's assume NX is as capable as an X1, I'm assuming/hallucinating/hoping that NX gets reasonable 3rd party support in this argument, is this that offensive to graphical tastes or does this power difference alone make NX an impossible sell?
The question here is everything else. What it is, what it costs, how they market it, how do they get support, etc. These will determine success, even if some might personally need top of the line hardware.
I'll even ignore NX's existence, we are going to get several levels of graphic fidelity at several different price ranges, kind of going up in a stair until you reach the "top" with the PC. Assuming developers aren't going to do Neo and Scorpio exclusives, all consoles will be within spitting distance visually for most of the consumers.
From an XB1 to a great PC, there isn't a potential difference that significant that makes an XB1 not viable, not marketable, not minimally desirable to the general market. A market that really doesn't notice all the FPS, AA, Vsync, ambient occlusion, techwizard black magic thingies that are going on and/or maybe doesn't care enough to shell out more money for that difference. I really don't think hardware power is playing a significant part in this "race" and it rarely, if ever, has before.
This isn't even comparable to the gulf between Wii and PS360 or even Wii U and PS4 and X1, the same games can run on all hardware and most people won't care for the difference. Baring exclusives, the games are and will be the same too.
Now let's assume NX is as capable as an X1, I'm assuming/hallucinating/hoping that NX gets reasonable 3rd party support in this argument, is this that offensive to graphical tastes or does this power difference alone make NX an impossible sell?
The question here is everything else. What it is, what it costs, how they market it, how do they get support, etc. These will determine success, even if some might personally need top of the line hardware.
Power is fairly low on the list of things that will determine NX's success.
The more cogent factors would be things like price point, the concept of the NX, and effective marketing and messaging. But the launch and first year content push will probably be the most crucial aspect in building momentum.
Let's be real here: This happens every time, and it's always the pessimistic rumors which end up being true. Also, fuck this I'm doing it anyway. I never blame myself for anything. Not right now, though. I'll let you know that it's not pessimistic.
Meesh
Member
Basically my thoughts, though I'd like to believe that SCDs are a thing.
Umm no. Don't confuse games being designed around cpu's and multithreaded code to them having better performance than wiiu. I can't believe this is still an argument in 2016. The WiiU outperforms the 360 and ps3 even without the additonal RAM.
When naughtydog tried to just simply port over ps3 code (which 3rd parties did for most wiiu ports) for last of remastered on ps4 they said it ran at 15 fps...ON PS4. They had to go through and reright code that was suited for a console where the gpu is the focus (like wiiu). WiiU never got that kind of care.
Thanks for the clarification
Cheeseman Battitude
Member
Anyone else think it will be a partnership with Sony? Some musings:
When that CD Projekt Red dude said the NX will be fantastic I thought about why a developer that has never released a game on a Nintendo system say that. Maybe they've had Nintendo devkits over the years, looked at it and every time decided not to develop for them, but that seems like a waste of time for them.
Other third parties have said positive things recently, particularly Ubisoft, when you might think they would be at least a bit cautious. But the game they announced for NX is Just Dance, which is always on everything. Even a potato would have it.
Neither company has said much/anything about their console and neither showed anything at E3 when some more Neo info might have been expected. Is Sony usually this guarded about their new hardware, especially if it's an upgrade and software compatible both ways with PS4/Neo?
Something fishy might be going on.
When that CD Projekt Red dude said the NX will be fantastic I thought about why a developer that has never released a game on a Nintendo system say that. Maybe they've had Nintendo devkits over the years, looked at it and every time decided not to develop for them, but that seems like a waste of time for them.
Other third parties have said positive things recently, particularly Ubisoft, when you might think they would be at least a bit cautious. But the game they announced for NX is Just Dance, which is always on everything. Even a potato would have it.
Neither company has said much/anything about their console and neither showed anything at E3 when some more Neo info might have been expected. Is Sony usually this guarded about their new hardware, especially if it's an upgrade and software compatible both ways with PS4/Neo?
Something fishy might be going on.
I think it's best to not overthink about CD Project Red interview, he said he was joking and he is not a dev so I guess that don't mean much. And for the other third parties such Take two this is just some PR talk I believe.
As for Ubisoft they said positive things but yeah they announced only Just Dance which is coming on every platforms so I don't know what to think about this... They didn't want to announce others games or they didn't have any others ports on NX planned ?
Edit : As for the Sony partnership, I don't know... What could it be ? NX/Neo being the same console ? I don't think so Sony don't need it, they are already the King of that generation. I don't see it happening
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